I would NOT give the smaller force as being more coordinated, they just seem to have more opportunities to dump BTC, which creates the appearance of coordination.  So, the easier it is to get in fiat and to flood the markets with fiat (at the whims of the people interested in BTC), then the more difficult it will become for the bears to manipulate the price down with their ability to easily move their BTC around.... Fiat is NOT so easy to move and there are quite a few financial barriers to move around fiat... but if that moving around of fiat (just getting it onto an exchange quickly, easily and inexpensively) is made easier, then watch out BEARS!!!!

Just as AmazonStuff asserted, there are considerable advantages to have more BTC liquidation opportunities.     Not only does it provide the immediate liquidation route, it also provides for BTC publicity and BTC credibility.

Individuals can choose the extent to which it is practical for them to spend their BTC through a service or to refrain from such or to exercise a different method of payment or even to refrain from purchasing.  The fact that potentially paypal is skimming additional profits should NOT detract from the usefulness of having such liquidation avenue available to BTC holders.  In the beginning of the adoption of any new technology, we should expect a premium price paid for such... however,  over time, likely competition evolves and enters the space.. accordingly, the more profits being made, the more competition that will enter the space... These are basic free market concepts.. and sometimes it takes time for them to evolve, and we should NOT jump to too many conclusions merely based on the direction of early development, and accordingly, we need NOT view the situation with "bear logic" unless we are trying to skew reality, spread FUD and/or failing to see the whole picture.

That's because you, Tarmi, seem to have a fairly robust predilection to take any news, good, bad or other, and to translate it into "BTC bear logic" 

I have some business issues in the US of A that I am trying to get in order - otherwise I am considering various ways to become location independent.  Currently, I am attracted to south east asia, more than europe - and part of my thinking is that I can live a lot better on a lot less (accordingly, live well within my means, and continue to accumulate wealth with a mostly passive income).  Potentially, later in life, I will be able to travel and live in more expensive areas...... Well, anyhow, this is more of a work of progress than anything set in stone...

Further, I am anticipating that there are going to be a lot of ongoing wishy-washy developments and adjustments when it comes to various tax treatments of BTC... from what I understand, Americans traveling abroad would NOT be required to count the gains of their spent BTC, so long as those BTC are spent overseas.

Regarding number of merchants, the more the better, and regarding spending, there are a lot of mixed blessings about that, and the USA, as most of us already realize, has one of the worst spending records - and some of the american consumerism habits are spreading to other areas around the world... NO simple solutions there when it comes to inequality and wasteful spending while some people are barely able to scratch by meager livings others are living wastefully high on the hog.  Seems to be a topic beyond the scope of this thread (though this thread seems to be fairly tolerant of a variety of topics so long as they are anywhere remotely connected to BTC walls - and even then... ooofffffta...).   

I have some mixed feelings about these points.  I understand the point that you are making and I agree that if you know that the business is holding BTC, then they would be the preferred business to patronize.   


However, I tend to believe that anyone taking BTC is a good thing, and surely, we should also be sympathetic to the businesses using payment processors (and really we do NOT have any meaningful way to verify the extent to which the payment processor businesses are directly converting or holding some percentage).  We should, if we can, be inclined to replace any BTC that we spend, anyhow.

Another ongoing issue remains the tax treatments to use BTC as a form of currency... which is bullshit to have this accounting disincentive hanging over our heads.... Currently, I am trying to get around this (put this off) by simultaneously (within a week or so) replacing any BTC that I spend, and that way I can claim that there was NO capital gains or loss (makes for easier accounting for me, so far).   Now, down the road, if I begin to make some substantial purchases that also include capital gains, then I will NEED to account for such gains in my projected IRS filings for the year.

"Sometimes?"   Raid_N:  You are being very charitable in your word choice.  Probably a more accurate description would be "a large majority of the times."    

If Mmitech has any nice bone(s) in him, he very rarely shows it in this thread.

Probably we are on the same page, Stan Distortion.

To explain further (at the risk of repeating myself), I am NOT encouraging anyone to hoard coins for the mere sake of hoarding (and anyhow "hoarding" is a negative and derogatory label); however, if someone holds a bunch of different kinds of assets/currencies, they would spend the less appreciating assets first.. such as the dollar... and when they run out of dollars, they are NOT going to starve to death.. merely b/c they want to hold their bitcoins.  

If a person is hungry, and his/her health could suffer from NOT eating, then food will be more valuable than holding bitcoins (and we do NOT even need that level of extreme to cause people to spend their bitcoin, if it were the ONLY asset/currency that they hold), or at least I would think so.  

In this same reasoning, people will like to desire and practice the maintenance of various life conveniences, and accordingly, they will need to (want to) spend their bitcoins to achieve such (that is if they ONLY hold bitcoins, and they do NOT hold other liquid assets/currencies).  In other words, I agree with your sentiment, Stan Distortion, that hoarding as a supposed "problem" is a fiction of status quo financial entities/interest spreading disinformation (FUD) about BTC.

You must live on some looney financial district street in which they are joking about the thing(s) that is/are the most threat to them...   that is the likely success of BTC.

In any event, I feel a little bit safer, attempting to  predict the page count in this thread in the next week than the price of BTC in the next 6 months.. the page count of this thread is quite a bit more predictable.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg8947806#msg8947806

In that regard, since we are already in the solid 8,8XXs, we may start seeing some post dumps; however, probably the real post dumps will NOT start before Saturday.. when the page count begins to approach 8,888.. and it is probably that the page dumpers will allow the page count to reach 8,888 for maximum effect.... in order that they can take that pleasure away from us, once we think that we have achieved it... Also, it is possible that they will attempt to throw us off, and NOT dump. at all. ... those fuckers!!!!!

The way the price is currently dropping, you may be able to buy some more for around $380?  No guarantees with this shit, that is for sure... In the 10 minutes on bitstamp we have witnessed nearly 2.2k btc dumps.

The hoarding "problem" seems way overstated to me.  Certainly, you would want to spend your less appreciating assets first..... .but if the economy were to evolve to such a state that there were only bitcoins or bitcoin-like assets/currencies, then assets/currencies would
need to establish themselves in such a way that they could compete with bitcoin and that they would be able to retain their value, or appreciate in value, like what remains anticipated with bitcoin.


 

I'm consolidating... after the last round, I cannot afford it.      

If you are a gentleman, yes.  Otherwise, i'm NOT sure.

When??


I am starting to lose confidence about any exponential race up into the $800s arena b/c posters have been writing these kinds of predictions since about February-ish.. yes sooner or later, someone is gonna be correct - but why now?  Why not 6 months from now?

FIFY

Yeah, when I see squabbles between members, usually, it is too difficult to determine who started it, and which if any is hitting below the belt, because both posters appear ridiculously entrenched in defending their position... it's like when we get into our various political battles, which I am NOT inclined to resume at the moment.   

Good for you, and it remains unclear how you would know about what other are doing, unless they are sending you PMs to inform you of such?

By spreading FUD, and therefore getting someone else to do it, while you watch.    

That was very courteous of you to time it to put the post at the end of the thread... Thank you, Akujin.  You are the GREATEST!!!!   

Which one am I?   

I think you have pretty much summed it up.  Your posts go on a variety of stream-of-consciousness attempts to connect a large variety of ideas by stringing words together and then making strained connections between such words. 

It causes me to believe that your level of comprehension remains somewhat at the word level, rather than at the sentence level.  As you improve with your comprehension abilities, you should, hopefully, be able to progress to the paragraph level and then page and then chapter and then book...   Not everyone has comprehension ability or learns comprehension skills; however, hopefully, NOW that I have pointed this out to you, possibly, you will be able to take action to work on these skills.

Hopefully, you will improve with some of your abilities, but I do NOT really have much hope to assist you in the near-term future.. because, as I said earlier, developing skills can take time..

NONETHELESS, i will attempt to pay attention to some of your posts to verify whether there is any potential for coherence and/or comment(s) from me.