I'm not saying I think you are a bad person, I'm just saying that in light of this case, I find your arguement invalid, and Tradefortress' allegations to be reasonable and believable based on the dialog between the two of you. I do believe that the amount may be incorrect, but the principal behind the thread/accusation, is that in my opinion, you exploited Coinchat and recieved Bitcoins that you should not have based on the site's rules in place. Your first comment was that you didn't know about the rules until after you were banned, to justify what happened. If someone gains unintentionally as you are claiming, as a result of ignorance of the rules, it would make sense that you apologize, and refund the amount in question. In my opinion, it is a valid claim that because TradeFortress suffered a financial loss due to the exploit, it is reasonable for him to make a mark on your trust until you two come to a resolution.

The reason TradeFortress is on the default trust list, to my understanding, is because he found a weak point in the forums security, and rather than exploiting it, he helped to fix it. That paired with his previous history of leaving accurate and reliable feedback for others, he was put onto the default trust list. All grudges aside, just the black and white picture, you took money from Tradefortress in a way that was not designed or allowed in Coinchat, and because of that he pegged you as untrustworthy. I don't really see any malicious intent in TradeFortress' amount that he pegged you as owing, I just think that in order to get a completely accurate figure, he would have had to spend additional time getting the facts completely straight for a case that didn't matter to him, because he wasn't going to see his money again. So rather than spend his time on a lost case, he make a ballpark guess.

As far as me not trading with you again, that was a little harsh, but I was trying to use myself as an example to get my point across. Your best bet is buying/selling things is to always use escrow. Trustworthiness isn't as big of a deal if someone reliable is holding the funds that could be scammed on either side. That or work something out with TradeFortress, and get this thing settled. Although, even then, escrow is still a good plan.

I don't think hes so much holding your reputation randsom, as he explained 1.5BTC was what it seemed you had gotten, and .5BTC is what it seems now. I'm sure he could actually check and find an exact number of coins that he lost.

The Reputation system works however people want it to work. There is no protocol or strict guideline for how it should work. If I see someone doing a very shady deal, if I wanted to, I can leave them negative feedback saying, this guy looks shady, and give them the reference link, or if someone ripped me off on Ebay, and I could link them back here, I could also leave them negative rep for that. The point of the feedback system is that you can leave notes for yourself and others, with linked proof and comments, and people can judge the validity of the claims themselves. Without proof, people will desregard the negative trust, with it, they will be far more hesistant to deal with you. My point was that the figure doesn't matter meant that unless you had planned on paying him back, whether it is for 1 Satoshi or 100 BTC, it would still show negative trust from TradeFortress, and would peg you as untrustworthy if people agreed that you are in the wrong.  If you were willing to pay Tradefortress back the amount that your bot had Actually earned, I'm sure he would be far more interested in searching through transaction histories to find an accurate figure.

but the thing is, should Tradefortress go through the logs to give you a more accurate number of BTC lost, or would it just be a waste of time. I'm sure hes thinking that a guestimate is perfectly fine, as he wont see any amount back.

And although you may not find anything wrong with your bot taking funds from coinchat, as I said earlier, it isn't really your, or Tradefortress' opinion that matters. All that matters is when someone who is going to do business with you, what will they think based on the evidence. I personally think you are at fault and wouldn't trade with you be it 1 Satoshi, or 1.5BTC (which leads into the significance of the amount owed) , and you can see that others think you are as well. But there are also other people who don't think you are at fault, so its a matter of getting people who don't find you at fault to trade with you.

If tspacepilot had not withdrew any fund from coinchat, and Tradefortress has lowered his rep for no reason, wouldn't the first thing tspacepilot would say is, hey, I never withdrew anything? They have argued about the amount, but the reasonable first step a person would take in defending themself is saying that they had taken nothing. Tspacepilot did not say they didn't withdraw Bitcoin earned by the Bot, they said they didn't withdraw 1.5 BTC or .5 BTC.

also


You didn't withdraw "anywhere near that amount" so you did withdraw something. And you "Almost never" used the illegal bot, but you did use it.

Ok, assuming that the bot only made .01 BTC, that means the amount is still wrong, but the principal is the same. Tspacepilot went on TradeFortress' site, and used illegitimate ways to gain Bitcoins. Tradefortress' feedback would still be valid, although he should probably change it to .01BTC if there was evidence.

But really, what is the difference between scamming .01BTC, .02BTC, or .5BTC, either way they would still have the negative feedback from TF and the reason. The arguement here isn't whether or not tspacepilot abused the site and took Bitcoins from Tradefortress, its A) whether its ok to post it on Bitcointalk, a different site, and B) Whether tspacepilot is at fault for abusing the system.

From the hundreds of other cases I've seen, the answer is yes to both. The amount isn't a major factor.

No, that is not true at all. tspacepilot opened the thread up, asking what happened. Tradefortress explained it to him, and rather than tspacepilot saying, No I never took the coins, or no, it wasn't me, they said, no, I never saw the rules so its ok that I took the coin.

tspacepilot has admitted to chatting using a bot containing the name b0t rather than bot, and withdrawing about .5BTC rather than 1.5BTC, in light of that, how can you say there is no evidence?

As it has been answered, yes Forum accounts are allowed to be bought or sold, and you may have more than one. The reason being, it would be impossible for the staff to weed out all account sales and multiple accounts. We just couldn't do it, so by allowing it, everyone is aware that it happens and knows to watch out for it if they need to. If we said no buying/selling accounts and no alt accounts allowed, the many people who could slip through the cracks would be able to do far more damage, as the community wouldn't be on guard the same way it is now.

That being said, buying/selling accounts isn't always bad, people can use the accounts for paid signature advertising, giveaways, and whatnaught, rather than using them to scam. There are scammers, and those that use alts responsibly. Some people have alt/purchased accounts so that they may speak their mind without fear of people associating certain ideals or policies to them. For example, and established business may not like to post their personal opinions which may be unpopular on the account that also is used to faciliate trade.

I hope this clears it up a bit better.

Theymos has said earlier in this thread that if you donate 10 BTC to become a donator, then you can donate 40 more coins later to become a VIP. I'm not sure enough about my answer to say that 5BTC now and 5 BTC later would get you a Donator Tag. My guess would be yes, however Theymos would be able to tell you yes/no for certain much quicker than I could.

You check the terms and conditions of a site, before signing up. That is kind of the expectation that you understand the rules of a site before using it.

The rules explicitly state that all bots must have "bot" in the name so that they Do not get paid for chatting. You make a bot that does not follow those rules, and illegitimately gain .5 BTC. I cant understand what the misunderstanding his here, you stole .5 BTC from Tradefortress by using a bot that was not allowed. You get paid for chatting on coinchat, not having a bot spam for you, and because of your bot, Tradefortress is out .5BTC hence the negative trust.

I'm really not understanding where the question of, why don't I get negative trust for stealing .5BTC from someone? If it was an honest mistake, you would have seen that it was against the rules, said oh sorry, and returned the ill gotten coins.

Edit* And after thinking it over, I don't really buy that you werent aware of the rules in the first place. Why would you have named your bot b0t rather than bot had you not known that names with bot don't get paid?

Sorry about that, as I said in PM, I moved some coins out of cold storage, and it deducted some coin from the escrow address as part of the wallet that I moved them from. Your coins are still there in their entirety.

A minor can't legally own a gun, I've seen pink red rider BB guns and stuff like that, but parent's cannot buy guns and give them to their kids. They can however take their kids shooting/hunting or whatever while under their parent's supervision, but they can't just hand their kid a gun and say, "here you go, have at it".

If you buy guns online, they don't ship them to you, they ship them to a local gun store, where you have to pick it up, and have the proper background checks done before they will hand it over to you. Before you purchase your first gun, they do a back ground check on you to make sure you aren't a felon, and don't have a history of mental illness. Then in 2-3 weeks after that background check, you can then come in and pick up your gun. I think its like every year or few years you have to renew that background check, but after you have it done, you can just buy and avoid the wait. To own a rifle or shotgun, you must be 18. To own a handgun you must be 21.

This is in the U.S anyway, for people unfamiliar with U.S gun laws. It does vary from state to state a bit, but what I described are the regulations at the federal level. I think its stupid for credit card companies to refuse to do business with a company that is abiding by those laws.

Stickied for a day or so. I'll be watching the thread, but please send me a pm after the fork target block has been passed.

You have .28 BTC in your post title, but the site says .028 ($4 instead of $40)

You may want to fix that, and I'll remove this post when you do, so no need to quote it or respond.

Wow 0.o how did you get a speeding ticket in the Baltimore Area? Thats where I'm at now, and they wont touch you if you are doing less than 20 over the speed limit. A friend and I got a friendly warning for going 93mph on I95, but I've actually never been ticketed.

The best part about living around here, is the police in general aren't ass hats. I've found that if you aren't killing someone or peddling crack, they leave you alone.

One of the biggest issues right now, is with new members. The staff is sort of undecided as to what to do about Alt Currencies and New Members. Right now, many of the alt currency devs are marketing toward new members, which is an issue. People that are totally new to the Bitcoin/Crypto currency scene, that see an article about Bitcoin and come here to find out more about it, don't need to be bombarded by hundreds of other opportunities to get into new coins. We know that most people are smart enough to know the difference between Bitcoin and other Crypto Currencies, however for someone who is totally new to the idea, nothing says, welcome, we will help answer your questions, like introducing thousands of other questions about each and every different coin. The ideal situation would be that they join here, understand the basics, and then adventure into the Alt Currency section on their own.

Now for the most part, people can figure out, Bitcoin is one coin, Xcoin is another coin, etc. However, when there are two Bitcoins, new members could see a thread selling Bitcoins (scrypt) for $100 each and immediately jump at the opportunity to get some cheap coin. The same could happen to anyone who doesn't know that much about alt currencies, and has no idea that there is another Bitcoin.

Another senario, is in the marketplace or in the auctions section. Someone agree to pay a certain price, and then someone trys to scam them by paying in Bitcoins (Scrypt). And with Bets and Bounties, if I say "I agree to pay 100 Bitcoins if I'm wrong" Whats to stop someone from saying, you win, here are your 100 (Scrypt) Bitcoins.

Its just a huge mess of confusion for people who are expecting to come to the Bitcoin forums, and find threads about (Scrypt) Bitcoins.

The first thing I did, was made sure that each (Scrypt) Bitcoin thread had a disclaimer making sure to clarify that it explicitly said it was the Scrypt Version. I then opened the topic up to the rest of the staff as to what they thought, and every single person was against allowing Scrypt Bitcoins here because the mess of confusion would leak out to all of the sections here, believing it was boarder line fraudulent to use Bitcoin's name in such a way.

* The point at which we decided to disallow (Scrypt) Bitcoin threads in general, was after learning that without special precaution, it could overwrite your existing Bitcoin files. At that point, (Scrypt) Bitcoin was incredibly close to what we would consider Malware, whether it intended to cause damage or not.

The point of the announcement isn't to deprive the coin of attention, its so that people will know why they are having threads/posts removed. It wouldn't be fair to enforce a rule that no one knows about.

However, you are correct, the announcement will be taken down somewhat shortly after it becomes common knowledge.

No one is getting banned for mentioning Scrypt Bitcoin, I'm just giving everyone fair warning that I will be removing threads. This isnt about whether its a good coin or not, its about how making bitcoin2 threads reaches into the rest of the community, increasing the likelyhood that someone gets upset, and has the Alt Currencies section removed all together. There are a hundred alt coins that are out there that I don't support, however I don't really feel its my right to do anything about them, because they don't effect me or anyone else that doesn't support them in any way. Not allowing Scrypt Bitcoin was a decision made by more than a few members of the staff. Not a single person was on board with it, because its somewhat fradulent. I don't know who the dev is, so I can't have any biasses there. I know of two people who have made Scrypt Bitcoin threads, and I can honestly say I had not known them before I asked them to lock their threads. If I'm not disallowing it because I dislike the coin, or because I dislike its users, or because I dislike its dev, wouldn't the next logical step be that I don't dislike anything about Scrypt Bitcoin in general, besides what the staff and I have discussed, ie how its similar name would most certainly be used for fraud, deceit, and because it would just be annoying in general because of its name?

The point of the alt currencies section is that we remain our own secluded section, in the BITCOIN forums. If we start spilling out into the rest of the forums, the section is no longer secluded from the rest of the Bitcoin forums, and annoying the rest of the people who tolerate alt coins because they don't have to have anything to do with them.

Both parties have agreed to these terms by pm:

Mushroomized, agrees to pay  2.215 Bitcoins, for a purchase of $285 USD (including shipping) on this Ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PS-PS1-PLAYSTATION-LSD-DREAM-EMULATOR-w-BONUS-CD-ASMIK-ACE-JAPAN-F-S-/121168899796?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c363aaed4the coins will be sent to an escrow address held by saltyspitoon and verified by both of you before any bid is placed.

Funds will be held in escrow by SaltySpitoon until delivery of the Dream Emulator Play Station game. Any disputes with the item on arrival including repackaging and returning to sender will be handled by Mushroomized, however it will be pbflash's responsibility as the official purchaser to file the Ebay dispute and recieve a refund from the seller. Should a dispute happen, funds will be held until a suitable outcome is found between both parties.

If both parties approve of the terms, I will provide an escrow address for Mushroomized to send the 2.215 Bitcoin retainer so that pbflash may purchase. I will confirm that the coins have been received with pbflash and provide a Transaction ID for further verification.


Mushroomized, you may send 2.215 to the escrow address here:

1GLmY7uqWsuJJ1XxvCcHJsBWDrZaqztsnQ

I will update with the info from blockchain.info to confirm the transaction when it has arrived.

Coins have been sent, and are being held: https://blockchain.info/address/1GLmY7uqWsuJJ1XxvCcHJsBWDrZaqztsnQ

It took BTC over 4 years to get to the price its at, with about the entire crypto marketshare for about 3 of those years. I don't see any Alt coin hitting its price in 1-2 years. Thats not to say that an Alt coin couldn't hit like $10/coin or something cool like that, but I'm not seeing $130 in the crystal ball right now. With the hundreds of alt coins there are right now, in order for any of them to make it big, they would have to attract many times more users than any one coin is getting right now, and keep those users. Bitcoin has something like a Million estimated users, although no one is really sure because only a small fraction use the forums. You would be hard pressed to find more than a few thousands users for even the more established and popular coins.

I'll start you off at 5BTC

You should be warned though, that I will not whitelist spammers, the people that the Newbie Jail system is trying to keep out of the rest of the forums. however I imagine many of the people who donate will value their accounts a little bit more, seeing as they are donating money to a worthy cause. It doesn't pay to donate, and then get banned for spamming.