Wow. Even INTEL does not have this kind of capacity. Neither does AMD. They produce, then test, and if things suck, they throw it all away or make a "budget version" of a downclocked chip. If you were ever wondering where these shitty graphics cards came from that nobody wants... take a guess  It's the unicorn blood. Definitely...the unicorn blood. Too bad the unicorn blood was way over rated. It failed to help the process along in the end...Reality and Physics got in the way of the ritual sacrifices. |
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Man, the scams are rolling right in the door today.
Tons of newbies want people to fork over 10's of thousands of dollars.
If theASIC is real, much love to em'. If not, join the crowd.
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Hi everyone. I am purchasing a bit over a 100 chips from BFL and thought I would open this up to a group buy. I don't have a lot of reputation but would be willing to work this out via escrow through John K. or really whatever the group thinks is reasonable. I'm really not too picky but I am purchasing these A.S.A.P. so I will likely close the group buy on Monday at 11:00 A.M. Butterfly Labs will begin selling bulk chips to individuals and companies starting in June, 2013. Chip delivery schedule is approximately 100 days through end packaging once your order is placed. We will be providing reference documentation, reference design/schematics, and foundry receipt/documentation.
Chips will be graded and priced as follows:
Grade A: 16 Engines - $97/chip
Grade B: 15 Engines - $93/chip
Grade C: 14 Engines - $89/chip
Grade D: 13 Engines or less - $83/chip
Chip orders will require 50% down and 50% upon order delivery. Payment can be made via BTC (preferred) or bank wire.
Advantages of BFL chips:
1/2 the power usage per GH as the closest competitor
1/10th the silicon area per GH as the closest competitor (Very high performance density)
You can use off the shelf heat sinks depending on your chip layout due to FCBGA package vs custom underside heat sinks as required on some QFN packages. You don't have to design and manufacture heat sinks!
Proven design currently operating in the field and ready to go.
I will be contacting John. K after I finish this message to see if he will be escrow. I am located in the US and will ship wherever is needed. Shipping and customs will be paid for by the buyer. I will charge a handling fee of .1 BTC fee per order of 50 chips or less and a .2 BTC per order of 50 chips or more.
I will be purchasing Grade A chips. If you would like to purchase other chips, that should be fine as it is my understanding that the chip minimum is not required for each separate Grade.
I will update this message as information becomes available. As I stated earlier, this will be purchased sometime on Monday so time is of the essence.
Cheers!
flow
I'm cancelling this group buy because I really just don't want to deal with all the shit that apparently comes with trying to help people out. I'm taking my ball and going home. Hopefully you can get some chips via the other group buy which is listed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223335.0Keep in mind that MrTeal is well regarded and has a higher reputation on these forums. That guy knows what he is doing. |
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+1 So many < 20 post accounts floating around...i wonder why  There be sharks! |
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It goes without saying you're going to need a top end escrow.
Of course. That is why I thought of JohnK. After you think of him. Make sure to ACTUALLY CONTACT HIM...and get his approval first. With a newbie such as yourself (or under a sock account) it tickles the mind that you may just be augmenting your own order using others funds. That is the risk. Take the matters of Escrow seriously please. Because I seriously don't see how Escrow is protecting anyone in this specific situation. ========================== Scenario: John takes the money and orders the chips on your behalf. But then the order still goes to YOU and YOUR HOME Address. At that point it's all on faith that you will actually do your part and ship out the allotted chips to people who pitched in. I can imagine why JohnK would be hesitant to start being the hub of these Bulk orders. You seriously need reputation references and/or need to tell us where you are in the world so people actually know where to "visit you" if you default on your obligations. If you default, your gonna take JohnK good name with it. You need to redo your intro. I could have slapped together a better intro.... Edit: Are you doing a 50% down payment and that is why you are doing escrow? Or are you aiming for the bulk discount at a higher dollar value? |
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MLM means Multi-Level Marketing. In case anyone is wondering. This is not an accusation, simply a definition for those that do not know what an MLM scheme might be.  They are considered bad because the resellers at the very bottom never make their money back. Only those at the start of the pyramid make their money back and then some. |
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So bizarre... it makes me wonder if they have money issues? If you intend to sell chips, why not price them below the competition and release schematics, etc. at the same time? A chip cannot cost them even close to $90 to produce... why not charge $30-$50 and actually present a viable option for miners? As it is, there is absolutely no benefit in investing in their chips over Avalon (that I see).
Maybe they need the 50% upfront to scrounge up some money. The redesigns cost them a lot, their profit margins in their initial offersings (prior to the price double(!)) were not very large. All the actions BFL has taken over the last few months are a huge red flag they're having money problems. They didn't budget for their chips being underperforming, slower, and requiring more to get the same hashrate. They didn't budget for the expanded PCBs with twice as many chips on them as before. They didn't budget for double the heatsinks. According to the thread you're only getting about 10% more GH/sec per dollar, so they didn't undercut Avalon by much. Or having to produce 60,000 units + and only having 60~65 wafers with....1,100 chips each. (assuming 100% perfect chips...which is improbable) Does anyone see a math problem above? |
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Having chips is nice.....BUT,who's doing the board design  I don't see BFL releasing specs anytime soon............................... The big question is, can the open source guys: A) figure out what is wrong with the design themselves? B) Do what BFL fails to do and what keeps BFL from en masse shipping? It seems strange at this point to start selling chips when the design(s) across several product lines aren't even really properly working or fully implemented yet. It is gonna be a gamble at this point to buy into it. If the problems are good enough to keep BFL going into delay after delay, then what are open source manufacturers going to do better? |
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One avalon chip costs $10.0109. If one $97 with 16 engines has 2880MH/s and one chip of avalon has 282MH/s then the MH/s for avalon would cost: $0.0355 and bfl's MH/s $0.03368. Man i hope thats correct finally...  Thats about what I got. Its almost 1:1. With no real big power savings either  Its getting the PCBs made for these things and then getting them assembled that scares me. Not that I ever expect these to show up in quantitys. The thing that amazes me is that they are offering a 20% discount on orders over 10,000 chips. Like anyone will be spending $8,000,000 on chips alone. Do you think they could deliver 10,000+ of these in the next 100 days? Its just like the miners where they are taking as many pre-orders as they can, and they will quickly get in over their heads on this as well.Gotta power the next die shrink...though honestly, if they are getting 110nm performance at 65nm with their designs...I doubt a die shrink will do them much good. |
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I think what's going on is that BFL can not order chips in large enough quantities to fullfil their orders... they just order a certain amount at a time and their product is just trickling out.
now if they have a way to raise a gazzilion dollars again (let's sell chips!!) then they could place very large orders of chips.
then they will use the chips received to fullfil the orders while those who ordered chips will wait again...
Let's rob Peter to rob pay Paul.
Bingo, that my reasoning and speculation as well... |
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Seems like this is the next wave of scams. People with barely any posts are asking people to send them a load of money. Guarantees they won't run with the money instead of ordering? Close to none. |
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So one chip has 180MH/s. 14 engines per chip means $89/chip. $89000 per 10k. -10% means $80100 for 10k chips. Avalon charges 782.1BTC * $128 = $100109. Doesnt sound bad. But avalons chips have 282MH/s standard. So the GH costs $3.55 for avalon and $4.45 for BFL. The half power usage doesnt mean much at the current time. And isnt it still open if that is true at the end?
Then 100 days mean 14,28 weeks. Avalon claims to need 9-10 weeks only.
So im not sure if BFL will make a fortune with this... but... when i think about it... i believe most BFL customers will happily get their chips instead nothing. At least they know the chips are working. Even when this means they have to wait some time to have a working miner... its still more reliable to wait for someone in the community to build a miner.
Maybe some people will prefer to buy BFL chips too instead having to trust a groupbuy. Its a good move to lower the minimum amount of chips needed to order.
Something wrong with my calculations?
It's a pretty sad state of affairs when I am considering converting my orders to ships because I trust yet unnamed DIY builders to deliver working miners before a multi million dollar company that has had 12 months to get a product out.  It makes you wonder what is wrong with the general design that it needs that many revisions. Lets hope they will provide technical support for those that take the reins in the future. |
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Question:
Why should we trust you?
Why aren't you offering escrow?
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BFL is always behind Yifu!
You are wise beyond all men! |
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i chuckled at this as well. i guess if they convert all the pre-orders to chip sales, they won't need to worry about fixing problems with their boards Bingo, It also lowers the bar with respect to complexity in the delivery of orders. If it's only chips...they can manage that much right?  That is one way of resolving the issue. |
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So now they are also in the chip selling business: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3014-butterfly-labs-announces-bulk-chip-sales.htmlButterfly Labs will begin selling bulk chips to individuals and companies starting in June, 2013. Chip delivery schedule is approximately 100 days through end packaging once your order is placed. We will be providing reference documentation, reference design/schematics, and foundry receipt/documentation. Chips will be graded and priced as follows: Grade A: 16 Engines - $97/chip Grade B: 15 Engines - $93/chip Grade C: 14 Engines - $89/chip Grade D: 13 Engines or less - $83/chip Our chips will be provided in minimum lots of 100 with the following price structure: 100 - 999 chips - Regular Price 1000 - 9999 chips - 5% discount 10,000 - 99,999 chips - 10% discount 100,000 or more - 20% discount Chip orders will require 50% down and 50% upon order delivery. Payment can be made via BTC (preferred) or bank wire. Advantages of BFL chips: 1/2 the power usage per GH as the closest competitor 1/10th the silicon area per GH as the closest competitor (Very high performance density) You can use off the shelf heat sinks depending on your chip layout due to FCBGA package vs custom underside heat sinks as required on some QFN packages. You don't have to design and manufacture heat sinks! Proven design currently operating in the field and ready to go. We will allow you to convert current orders with us into chip orders if you would rather design your own. If you would like to place an order, please email chipsales@butterflylabs.comBlows on his BS decoder ring. The following is imaginary and simply wild speculation without a basis...allegedly A) Oh shit, we have a shit ton of orders and little or no funding to pay for new wafers! A1) I know, let just pass the cost of new wafers to our customers! A2) I know, lets pitch the idea Avalon is doing to our boss. Surely he would love to see us sell 2$ chips for 97$! B) Oh shit, we might not be able to complete our huge order backlog! B1) I know, let get this monkey off our backs and shift the blame of bad boards to open source vendors. We will sell our yet to be made chips with an extra 50% downpayment for quick liquidity! That way we can clear our backlog of orders and prevent our asses from getting thrown into court. B2) I know, lets lull people into thinking they can just make our boards for us. In this way we will only be responsible to order chips from the fab and the packaging people....and the rest will work itself out! We can't possibly screw this up....We are probably going to collapse soon, so we might as well open source our design. We are knee deep in commitments/liability we won't be able to fulfill anytime soon. Don't let them see the panic in our eyes?! 60 days to fulfill 2 days worth of orders. How many days between june 23, 2012 and December 31, 2012? Alot. How many from Jan 1, 2013 till today? Can anyone say, entering PANIC mode? So sometime in 2020? Right? I hope! |
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I have a question:
What are the upgrades going to cost on average?
Hi , We are working on a new payment structure, so this isn't a complete answer, but for the next generation it should be about 15 USD. For V3 there will likely be a different payment structure so I can't fully answer the question. It will never be unreasonable, always optional, and the added features of each new generation will be significant. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Pablo. I am also a customer of https://www.bit-trader.net/ as well so I will let you know which platform does a better job of trading. Any plans to create a standalone module (without Chrome)? |
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