Butterfly Labs Announces Bulk Chip Sales

[cryptograd]

What a joke.

+1

[Xian01]

*mumbles something about Honest Abe*

[ecliptic]

So you're looking at:

1. Maybe 10% more Hash/sec / $  [but no hard numbers]
2. Claimed 50% lower Watts / Hash  [but no hard numbers]
3. Nothing about reference design, documentation.  Nothing to work off.
4. ~14+ week lead time minimum
5. orders starting vaguely sometime in june

Avalon meanwhile has a 10 week leadtime and has been accepting orders for, what, over a month now?

Seems like the only benefit here might be the lack of 10k minimum quantity.  and with BFL's track record, how long is that "100 day" leadtime going to be?

[dwdoc]

Can't wait to see all the BFL cloners start to announce their boards for sale.

[eroxors]

So bizarre... it makes me wonder if they have money issues? If you intend to sell chips, why not price them below the competition and release schematics, etc. at the same time? A chip cannot cost them even close to $90 to produce... why not charge $30-$50 and actually present a viable option for miners? As it is, there is absolutely no benefit in investing in their chips over Avalon (that I see).

[ecliptic]

So bizarre... it makes me wonder if they have money issues? If you intend to sell chips, why not price them below the competition and release schematics, etc. at the same time? A chip cannot cost them even close to $90 to produce... why not charge $30-$50 and actually present a viable option for miners? As it is, there is absolutely no benefit in investing in their chips over Avalon (that I see).

Maybe they need the 50% upfront to scrounge up some money.  The redesigns cost them a lot, their profit margins in their initial offersings (prior to the price double(!)) were not very large.

All the actions BFL has taken over the last few months are a huge red flag they're having money problems.  They didn't budget for their chips being underperforming, slower, and requiring more to get the same hashrate.  They didn't budget for the expanded PCBs with twice as many chips on them as before.  They didn't budget for double the heatsinks.

According to the thread you're only getting about 10% more GH/sec per dollar, so they didn't undercut Avalon by much. 

[PuertoLibre]

Want to see what Avalon said about their [BFL] Fab production "a while ago"?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/500-josh-plz-give-us-some-comments-about.html

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/500-josh-plz-give-us-some-comments-about-3.html#post37045

Take a look at the first page where a well known quote from Team Avalon is cited in the first post, then zoom forward "into the future" towards the end. As Josh recently gave the thread a backhand comment for someone bringing it back to bite him in the ass.

The Truth hurts!

[PuertoLibre]

So bizarre... it makes me wonder if they have money issues? If you intend to sell chips, why not price them below the competition and release schematics, etc. at the same time? A chip cannot cost them even close to $90 to produce... why not charge $30-$50 and actually present a viable option for miners? As it is, there is absolutely no benefit in investing in their chips over Avalon (that I see).

Maybe they need the 50% upfront to scrounge up some money.  The redesigns cost them a lot, their profit margins in their initial offersings (prior to the price double(!)) were not very large.

All the actions BFL has taken over the last few months are a huge red flag they're having money problems.  They didn't budget for their chips being underperforming, slower, and requiring more to get the same hashrate.  They didn't budget for the expanded PCBs with twice as many chips on them as before.  They didn't budget for double the heatsinks.

According to the thread you're only getting about 10% more GH/sec per dollar, so they didn't undercut Avalon by much. 

Or having to produce 60,000 units + and only having 60~65 wafers with....1,100 chips each. (assuming 100% perfect chips...which is improbable)

Does anyone see a math problem above?

[ninjarobot]

BFL stop selling and start delivering.

[ecliptic]

Funny that hashrate skyrocketed today of all days

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Want to see what Avalon said about their Fab production "a while ago"?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/500-josh-plz-give-us-some-comments-about.html

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/500-josh-plz-give-us-some-comments-about-3.html#post37045

Take a look at the first page where a well known quote from Team Avalon is cited in the first post, then zoom forward "into the future" towards the end. As Josh recently gave the thread a backhand comment for someone bringing it back to bite him in the ass.

The Truth hurts!

Josh lied back then, then freaks out when the thread was necro bumped. From one I can see, Josh is going to be spending more time over here, taking a vacation from over there. Meanwhile, Sonny's crossing off days from the calendar, counting down to when he's no longer on probation, of which lands just prior to the first time BFL needs to report their filings. I believe he misses the blue butterflies in Costa Rica. And when he goes, he won't give a shit what happens to his step-dad, Christ Vleisides, whose name is on the incorp docs.

And the investors who've claimed it was money they could afford to lose, will end up crying wanting their money back. You don't believe me. Let me give you a motherfucking example. I had over 1000 BTC in InstaWallet of which was chump change in dollars, all saying to myself that if I lost it, I would care less. Well, guess what? When that little bit of real money grew to over a quarter of a million dollars and I lost it, I LOST IT! I freaked out! I was pissed! I still am, but have calmed down considerably in regard to that potential lose. You guys with a few thousand invested will go through the same exact emotions.

I was made aware of warning signs just prior to IW shutting down, but my fears were shown to be unjustified, thus didn't worry about it till it was too late. Fortunately, for those still having pre-orders, there's a Nash Equilibrium that can still be exercised.

<not edited for grammar, for I believe this motherfuckin' kidney stone is going to pass this time>

[Magnate]

What income have BFL had for the past8 months? Pre sales.

But what happened? Couldn't deliver then missed their specs. Sales would have slowed and refunds grown. How many people have asked for their 30K back from no chance of getting a mini rig? And for the remaining products the profit has been slashed due to pricing against a spec they couldn't deliver, and they bought ALOT of parts they can't use. (I'm thinking about those boxes of 1500W PSUs they showed us).

Now they are doing something strange - instead of concentrating on delivering the orders they already have they are asking 50% up front for a bulk chip order. Why? Because they need the $$$$$$. They are running out of the money they have been donated for the past 12 months, and their on going income is minimal. I'm thinking they are even struggling to pay for their chip orders and hence they need people to down pay for the manufacturing for both bulk chip sales and chips for what ever BFL is able to deliver.

When will there be a class action against BFL for late delivery and failing to meet promised specs?

[Bicknellski]

So you're looking at:

1. Maybe 10% more Hash/sec / $  [but no hard numbers]
2. Claimed 50% lower Watts / Hash  [but no hard numbers]
3. Nothing about reference design, documentation.  Nothing to work off.
4. ~14+ week lead time minimum
5. orders starting vaguely sometime in june

Avalon meanwhile has a 10 week leadtime and has been accepting orders for, what, over a month now?

Seems like the only benefit here might be the lack of 10k minimum quantity.  and with BFL's track record, how long is that "100 day" leadtime going to be?

Therefore UNPROVEN... unlike AVALON... they have known values and are beyond the prototype phase. Why trust these jokers? Insanity.

[ecliptic]

Not to mention for sheer GH/sec per dollar KnCminer is the best and will probably deliver before BFL's chips even arrive, much less assemblies using them are done.

[Bicknellski]

BFL stop selling and start delivering.

+1 Wouldn't that be nice?

[Bicknellski]

Not to mention for sheer GH/sec per dollar KnCminer is the best and will probably deliver before BFL's chips even arrive, much less assemblies using them are done.

KNC? Are they a scam? Sheesh... let's just stick with things that actually exist.

[ecliptic]

Not to mention for sheer GH/sec per dollar KnCminer is the best and will probably deliver before BFL's chips even arrive, much less assemblies using them are done.

KNC? Are they a scam? Sheesh... let's just stick with things that actually exist.

OrSOC is no scam, and their credentials blow BFL out of the water.  they have the IC designers behind opencores.org working with them on this project.

[PuertoLibre]

What income have BFL had for the past8 months? Pre sales.

But what happened? Couldn't deliver then missed their specs. Sales would have slowed and refunds grown. How many people have asked for their 30K back from no chance of getting a mini rig? And for the remaining products the profit has been slashed due to pricing against a spec they couldn't deliver, and they bought ALOT of parts they can't use. (I'm thinking about those boxes of 1500W PSUs they showed us).

Now they are doing something strange - instead of concentrating on delivering the orders they already have they are asking 50% up front for a bulk chip order. Why? Because they need the $$$$$$. They are running out of the money they have been donated for the past 12 months, and their on going income is minimal. I'm thinking they are even struggling to pay for their chip orders and hence they need people to down pay for the manufacturing for both bulk chip sales and chips for what ever BFL is able to deliver.

When will there be a class action against BFL for late delivery and failing to meet promised specs?

A quick google search brought up these old memories from months ago. That is alot of parts.

[TheSwede75]

Not to mention for sheer GH/sec per dollar KnCminer is the best and will probably deliver before BFL's chips even arrive, much less assemblies using them are done.

KNC? Are they a scam? Sheesh... let's just stick with things that actually exist.

OrSOC is no scam, and their credentials blow BFL out of the water.  they have the IC designers behind opencores.org working with them on this project.

Don't drag knc and their vapor ware outfit into a discussion about companies that actually has asic working. Knc is a scam, so go ahead and buy their overpriced FPGA..

[dwdoc]

KNCMINER vs BFL
Apples vs Oranges