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2961  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 19, 2018, 06:53:31 AM
Nice crypto promo

http://abc7news.com/business/will-cryptocurrency-become-a-part-of-everyday-life/3773944/

2962  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: July 18, 2018, 07:11:52 AM
...  im Boden angebahnt ...



http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/natur/diamanten-forscher-entdecken-zehn-billiarden-tonnen-im-erdmantel-a-1218829.html

Demnächst noch so ne News für Gold und Gold Preis = 0

- hoffentlich konstant 0, sonst machen die Deppen noch die Erde kaputt!

 Grin
2963  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is the Lightning Network centralized? on: July 17, 2018, 12:13:44 PM


In comparison, BTC is implementing things that should alleviate demand on the blockchain.  If Lightning can handle some of the load and other improvements can make transaction sizes smaller, this delays the need for any hardforks.  So far, that approach appears to be working.  I certainly hope that when the time does eventually come for a hardfork, we seriously consider an algorithmic method that would help negate the need for any future hardforks.  But, chances are, we're still a long way off having that discussion.


The approach appears to be working in such that 'No HF' of some software has lead always to community HFs and diluting the crypoverse - but maybe we all had to learn that lesson.

For the future, I'd prefer the other way around , and even HFs and job rotations / elections  in the dev team section.
2964  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 17, 2018, 12:03:54 PM
ignore ^
2965  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 17, 2018, 10:40:56 AM
watching this is real fun

https://txstreet.com/

New: The Yours house
2966  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is the Lightning Network centralized? on: July 17, 2018, 07:27:12 AM

That I will not deny, but tell me which other group of developers are as good as Core?


Given we only talk about the pure protocol level and that I can only answer for myself here -

my conclusion was that a perfect protocol is as tiny as possible and does not contain any magical numbers and does not need other layers on top

Ok but you know I would disagree and ask what "magical numbers" are you talking about? Are you insinuating that the Core developers are using "magic computer science" to maintain Bitcoin?

Quote
for its most attractive and basic function (exchange money for nearly free or fees < 1cent ) it cannot be the core that came after Gavin.

There will always come an external cost on any system. Internalize on that very deeply.

Quote
So I fell back to check, what Satoshi really did / plan and I decided that BCH is the better implementation- and btw one big feature from Satoshi was, that real ppl do not matter at all - Satoshi's Bitcoin is anti-fragile to that, so no need at all to check / qualify any individuals.

Then we should follow Satoshi like a high priest of a religion? Is that how the community should decide what is and what is not Bitcoin?

Plus you did not answer which group of developers are as good as the Core developers.

Magic numbers are hard coded numbers with no proper reason - like the 1 MB hard cap - this should be rather time adjusted param like you have in the halving process.


And no, I m not religious, but it's always good if you back loop your thinking to sources where the success happened and why. Esp in times when things become messy and you need to distill the root protocol in order to scale that in best practice industrial manners.

And yes, no individual can decide what the best globally used Bitcoin implementation of the Satoshi protocol is, but mass adoption needs simple cheap secure on-chain TX. They will decide that for us - that is called just Bitcoin then.

 

2967  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 17, 2018, 07:16:11 AM
so 50% of btrash nodes are  on 1 server stack in China?"?? " face palm" Huh Bitpico gonna azzrape this coin RIP. Grin

Lol

You know anything about industrial style networks ?

I d suggest you send all your troll family to such similar hubs here as well:

http://www.datacentermap.com/united-kingdom/slough/equinix-slough.html



 
2968  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is the Lightning Network centralized? on: July 16, 2018, 10:37:33 AM

That I will not deny, but tell me which other group of developers are as good as Core?


Given we only talk about the pure protocol level and that I can only answer for myself here -

my conclusion was that a perfect protocol is as tiny as possible and does not contain any magical numbers and does not need other layers on top
for its most attractive and basic function (exchange money for nearly free or fees < 1cent ) it cannot be the core that came after Gavin.

So I fell back to check, what Satoshi really did / plan and I decided that BCH is the better implementation- and btw one big feature from Satoshi was, that real ppl do not matter at all - Satoshi's Bitcoin is anti-fragile to that, so no need at all to check / qualify any individuals.

2969  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is the Lightning Network centralized? on: July 16, 2018, 06:48:47 AM


The Core developers should not be pressured by fraudsters like Roger Ver, Craig Wright, or the mining cartels. Do you agree or disagree?


In the entire open source bitcoin world there will be pressure on everybody with real skin in the game.

You are on the right track, you re identifying Bitcoin's SPOFs (single point of failures) - as you put down here, core is one - and so will mostly fail ( or did ).
2970  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin has no competition on: July 15, 2018, 04:19:01 PM
Satoshi's Bitcoin protocol has no competition.

Only on implementation / instance level we see a lot of competition, yeah.

Fiat or precious metals are definitely inferior.
2971  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 15, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
It is not the worst idea to have some independent watchdog checking / rating / do proper due diligence and financial control of such crowdfunding businesses?

https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8z1m2m/offering_crowdfunding_fund_management/

To get better independence we should have at least about four or more of watchdogs (alias PWC, EY, Deloitte, ...)

Many ICOs would ve never ever appeared or could ve been brought into success zone.
2972  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is the Lightning Network centralized? on: July 15, 2018, 01:37:59 PM
If a hub in the central network and talk of LN channels is known as a problem then people can start routing around it. And a bad actor performing a center is very limited in what kind of hijinks they can perpetrate anyway. Network deployment is really a good idea for everyone because it can save on high transaction costs. There are still questions that arise in my mind as there are still shortcomings expected to be encountered, So how can we solve that problem?

"just route it around"
thats called broadcasting to mainnet to get your funds out of the channel you have with the hub.
you[$30-$30]hub[$30-30]destination                          mainnet: you[$0]
you[settledmainnet]hub[$30-30]destination                 mainnet: you[$30]

and then making another mainnet tx to put funds into a new channel with another party to hop your payments without a hub involved

you[$0-$30]hop[$30-30]hop[$30-$30]destination         mainnet: you[$30]
you[$30-$30]hop[$30-30]hop[$30-$30]destination         mainnet: you[$0]

and ofcourse.. hope the HOP your now channeled to also are not upto the same hijynx as the hub was

anyway moving forward a few concepts..
new invention.  factory.. lets call it LN fortknox.. (idea is to put funds into factories so you dont ned to settle to mainnet because your initial funding channel funding is not from your own mainnet tx. but from your mainnet funding going to fortknox an they pay your channel partner who then pays you)

you put funds into LNfortknox. and lock it up for 2 years. you then set up a channel with a well funded hub whereby you dont put funds in. and fortknox then routes a payment to the hub via their relationship and the hub sets up the initial TX to give you part of their funds
EG
instead of
you[$30 - $30]hub where that $30 is your own value you lockd in from your own mainnet tx..
its like this
you[$0 - $60]hub[$0 - $30]FK where the $30in in FK is your own value you locked into fortknox. the hubs $60 is the hbs UTXO (that he will have to settle)
and then this happens
you[$0 - $60]hub[$30 - $0]FK
you[$30 - $30]hub[$30 - $0]FK

now you have $30. but its not using your own initial UTXO you owned locked into the hub chnnel. the funds are a share of hubs initial $60 UTXO
your UTXO is locked in fortknox(factory)

moving on say your sick of hub and you want to move funds to hub2. and your new id Utu(you2)
.. now to get out of a channel you can do it without caring about rbroadcasting to mainnet. you make a payment back to fortknox and tell fortknox where you want to put that payment. so lts start with how it looks befor you dcid to leave the channel

you[$30 - $30]hub[$30 - $0]FK[$30 - $0]hub2[$60 - $0]Uto
so
you[$0 - $60]hub[$30 - $0]FK[$30 - $0]hub2[$60 - $0]Uto
you[$0 - $60]hub[$0 - $30]FK[$30 - $0]hub2[$60 - $0]Uto
you[$0 - $60]hub[$0 - $30]FK[$0 - $30]hub2[$60 - $0]Uto
you[$0 - $60]hub[$0 - $30]FK[$0 - $30]hub2[$30 - $30]Uto

now you have your funds in a new channel and dont care about the old channel bcause your mainnet UTXO is not lockd to that initial hub channel. so  you can forget about it and leave the hub with the problem of settling out their balance

but.. heres the rub, although you think you have less worry about closing a channel becaus your iinitial UTXO is not locke to that hub...you still have to get the hub to agree to pass the $30 out. meaning
at the state
you[$30 - $30]hub[$30 - $0]FK[$30 - $0]hub2[$60 - $0]Uto

if they are playing hijinks they can still hold funds to ransom. by refusing to sign your $30 back out of channel
also.. hub can spend the $30 the hub has with fortknox.. meaning the hub then has no value left in hub-fk to then pay to fortknox to then allow you get fortknox to rout your $30 to a new channel all offchain EG
you[$30 - $30]hub[$0 - $30]FK[$30 - $0]hub2[$60 - $0]Uto
as you can see hub spend it for hubs coffee. but now even if you give hub the $30 in you-hub..  hub cant then give another $30 to FK because hub-FK has $0 hub balance to do so

meeaning your again stuck with having to broadcast out the you-hub tx to mainnet. which hub could treat as an unsanctioned event and invoke a punishment

in short. if hijinks is occuring and even if you think using a factory will help reduce the amount of times you need to close a channel via mainnet settlemnt.. the end result is your still at the same risk of needing to settle to mainnet to get your $30 out of a hub is upto hijinks.

P.S there are far more vulnerabilities/ransoms/blackmail/hijinks risks that i can describe. but yea tryin to close a channel is not just a easy ok, done in 0.002 seconds no issues. the reason, even with factories.. well thats simple. DUAL AUTHORISATION RQUIRED every time. LN is not a simple single party push payment system so if the other party messes around. your stuck and may end up paying the cost of their hijinks

Yes, thx good summary.

The peer to peer trustless Bitcoin character is removed. Congrats


You could only do peer to peer with your existing, frequently used peers, simple netting application. But actually, no such complex LN needed for that.

2973  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 15, 2018, 01:31:42 PM

Fun over trolls

https://twitter.com/yhaiyang/status/1018117523122749440?s=19

Business wins
2974  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 15, 2018, 08:44:32 AM
Bullish!

Quality post! Upvoted.
2975  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 15, 2018, 07:10:05 AM
Bitcoin cash is Bitcoin  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

Bitcoin Cash is the on-chain scalable Bitcoin, the faster growing Bitcoin, the Cash for masses who will ensure proper security and usability

2976  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: July 14, 2018, 06:24:29 AM

Gold ist nicht endlich

Auf unserer Erde schon. Entstehen kann es nur in Supernovae. Kein irdischer Prozess kann Gold erbrüten.
Wir wissen halt nicht wie viel Gold auf unserem Planeten liegt, aber unendlich ist es keinesfalls - eher selten (<1g pro Tonne Gestein), limitiert und nur mit großem Aufwand in kleinen Mengen abbaubar. Die Amis gewinnen es mit Bagger und Unmengen an Diesel, die Afrikaner, Brasilianer und Australier mit allerlei Chemie wie Quecksilber und Zyanid, welches in Flüssen und im Boden landet und ganze Landstriche vergiftet.

Cheers

Nuja, endlich schon, aber wenn wir schon uns mit der Zukunft befassen, dann können wir doch froh sein, dass die Bitcoin Blockchain schon vor der Kernfusion von Gold funktioniert...

 Grin
2977  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 13, 2018, 06:17:16 PM
Fresh money for Bitcoin, but not ripple  Cheesy

http://www.icopdf.com/en/crypto-news/8016/Binance
2978  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: July 13, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
...

Naja, Gold wäre auch ein sehr gutes Bargeld, wenn es - unter den aktuellen Umständen - nicht diese gravierenden technischen Nachteile hätte. Immerhin wurde Gold länger als jedes andere Geld auch so eingesetzt.

Bitcoin leidet aktuell nicht an diesen technischen Nachteilen. Hier ist das Problem eher in den Köpfen der Menschen zu suchen. Trotzdem entscheiden die Menschen am Schluss natürlich (leider hauptsächlich fremdbestimmt durch Druck von aussen) darüber, was sie nutzen und wie sie es nutzen.


Zum Thema Gold:
https://www.goldmoney.com/

Die lagern für einen das Gold oder auch andere Metalle. Kann man sich auch jederzeit schicken lassen, wenn man möchte.
Über die App kann man mit seinen Beständen dann bezahlen.

Ganz interessant. Hab es selber aber nicht in Nutzung.

Gold ist nicht endlich, und kann letztlich durch den katastrophalen Abbau unsere gesamte Umwelt zerstören - zusätzlich muss man physische Güter auch immer sehr aufwendig physisch schützen, dies kostet ebenfalls extreme Resourcen - ein Quatsch!

Die USA haben gezeigt, dass es möglich ist Gold für Private zu verbietet - was durch die Physis auch geht - nee Bitcoin ist um Welten besser.
2979  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees on: July 13, 2018, 01:24:36 PM
bch is better than btc and truely the only right chain
Jr member with 52 activity gets his first merit point for saying bch is better than btc.....shocking
lol, pump me up to senior member please, bch is wayyyy better than bitcoin, they might co-exist together as each is a unique identity, one is more like peer to peer, the other is like store of value
Who would Roger Ver want to run his bitcointalk thread for bitcoin cash
Who would roger help in the MTGox Hack
Who would roger help in the big block debate
Who would roger help at Cryptsy, Lucky7coin
Who did Roger know at butterfly Labs Asic miners
Who did Roger know in the Silk Road operations under FBI investiagtion,
Why is Roger at the center of it all

Gotta hide the real blockchain hey Roger

Bitcoin thanks

Satoshi's Bitcoin was never about single people - and single people cannot achieve really much.
It was always about the quickest and best supply of global cash in form of a real scarce digital money and best possible security to use it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3378014.msg42014849#msg42014849
Name calling irrelevant

It was always about Trust, the debate is irrelevant





We agree on that.

What would you think, what 'blockchain' would be good to use to ensure that trust, esp here:

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/blockchain-can-be-used-to-fight-corruption-increase-transparency-in-govt-projects-4664681.html

2980  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: July 13, 2018, 01:21:01 PM
F ehler
I n
A llen
T eilen der Welt

https://www.fuw.ch/article/schuldenberg-waechst-auf-247-bio/

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