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2961  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 07:24:34 PM

Just zoom out and look at the big picture, guys. Really why are you interested in BTC? For the quick easy buck?

No, but we are in for the buck and that's got a lot more problematic from when you committed to BTC.  So what are newbies to do?

I believe in BTC in the same way I believe in IP4 - the internet learned how to do "money" - big news, and I'm late to the game.  Since only a lunatic would bet against the internet I'd like to put my money where my tech is, but just at the moment it's a suckers market - so beyond all the bulls and bears nonsense - how do we proceed?

I've clocked your buying advice and I'm following Goomboo and Slipperyslope because I'd like to be part of this without getting butt-fucked - but Bitcoin's got an insurmountable problem as a "freedom" protocol if the price for entry is pwnage.

I would wait to enter. And enter gradually. I'm doing that for a couple of friends, waiting and then I will spread the buys among different prices.

Pwnage is what the guys that cashed out for good during or after the 2011 bubble got.
2962  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 07:21:42 PM
Ok , I won't get it and I refuse to undestrand why bitcoin price has to go down in order to bounce back to 110+.

Second. I refuse to undestand how some of you can preach is a store of value when you expect it's value to halve in one- two weeks time.


Because "store of value" doesn't mean "get rich quick". Two weeks, three months mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Just think that 1btc was worth $0.079 in may 2010, $2 in November 2011 and $10ish in 2012.

If we close 2013 at $40ish, BTC will have worked as an excellent store of value for me. It's the best I know. If you don't see it, then you are just short sighted. Maybe you wish to buy today at $100 and sell at $200 in one months. Well, wake up. That's not how it works. Stores of value are for the long term, especially if they are commodity like and thus prone to volatility and manipulation.

Just zoom out and look at the big picture, guys. Really why are you interested in BTC? For the quick easy buck?

Ah, now i finally understand your attitude. It's all about you. Just because you bought quite cheap everybody who didn't still has to understand how it's amazingly good it is if Bitcoin ends this year at 40 bucks. And if we don't see it we are short sighted.



No, it's not "about me", if this was "only about me" I could be bitter and angry because my "btc value" decreased by 50% since April, 10th.

Just do not expect btc to always go up in both mid and short term, especially not after a bubble burst. Because is nonsense. Night is dark, there's no surprise and is expected. On the contrary, expect BTC to go UP in the long term (years) - as it always did.

There's nothing to worry about, really. Bubbles need to burst all the way down.
2963  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: ATTN NEWBIES! Avalon 85Gh/s ASIC - Auction, ends in 3 days! on: June 08, 2013, 05:52:33 PM
MNW scammed dozens of members of this community.

Dozens? Wow, I must be rich! How much money did I scam from people, Rampion?  Roll Eyes

I encourage anyone interested in learning what Rampion is talking about to visit the last successful auction thread where he presented the same points and a very healthy discussion was had on the topic.

Keep vigil, Rampion. You'll catch an actual scammer eventually. Until then, I don't hold it against you that you don't know where to aim your gun. It's the price we pay for doing business on a forum that supports selling account identities and using TOR to create "businesses". Carry on.

Successful auction? So you are hashing with unit and paying out dividends?

Believing again you are smarter than anybody else?

Accepting escrow? Or you consider that people is dumb when enters a bet without escrow, as you taught to the community, but is clever when enters any other type of transaction without it?

Escrow and I bid. Lesson learnt.
2964  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: ATTN NEWBIES! Avalon 85Gh/s ASIC - Auction, ends in 3 days! on: June 08, 2013, 05:32:05 PM
Other endeavors = paying in full people you scammed?

What was that about scam? Should I be cautious?

Didn't you see the "untrustworthy" tag?

MNW scammed dozens of members of this community. I suggest you to use escrow. Because last time Matt scammed, he said that the fault was on those entering business with him, as "he wanted to teach people about always using escrow".

So, if you're really interested in this, at least use escrow - lesson learnt, right?
2965  Economy / Goods / Re: (WTB) Lamborghini, used. $90,000 to $150,000 USA or Thailand not Orange! on: June 08, 2013, 05:02:09 PM
Nah, no-one believes this. Quite a lot of people believed Matthew (at the time I thought he could very well be in cahoots with Trendon).

Honestly I think he thought he was. I think pirate tricked him. He just called it a "joke" after the fact, paid of theymos and then moved on to scam again.


MNW was clearly serious on his bet until he realized he was going to lose, at that point he started to play the joker part because he thinks he is smarter than others and can fool people.

It's sad to see how he insists on the "it was a prank" thing. It's like saying to everybody: "ok, you are so stupid you didn't even realize I was joking". The saddest part is that i believe he is lying to himself and living a delusion.
2966  Local / Hardware y Minería / Re: ¿Problemas para satisfacer los pedidos de AVALON? on: June 08, 2013, 04:55:46 PM
Como lo pintas es cierto, pero me debí explicar mal. Me refería a un minero de 60Ghs por 1200$ estaba muy bien. A 20$/Ghs y 10-15w/Ghs.  Grin

Pues si entonces si que estaban bien de precio, pero también hay que tener en cuenta que pagar ese dinero era un acto de fe, cuando se ha visto que no era humo, pues los precios se han disparado.

Aun así, ellos son los que se lo han currado y el resto solo podemos pasar por el aro.

Saludos.

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Cierto, era un acto de fe, de hecho tardaron mucho tiempo en vender las 300 unidades del primer batch, jugarse un duro por ellos era como jugárselo a un sólo número de la ruleta. Un "a ver si este año toca el gordo", y cada boleto costaba $1200.

En serio, ponte en la situación. Verás que era un boleto de la lotería muy caro en ese momento... Y es que, aparte de no dar Avalon ninguna garantía y generar muchas dudas (muchos pensaban que no sacarían un ASIC, y menos antes que BFL), el bitcoin estaba a 10€.

Pero claro... El mundo es de los audaces. Y el que no arriesga, no gana Cheesy

El problema es que arriesgar no garantiza ganar. En este mundo hay muchas variables que condicionan el éxito de una inversión.


Pues eso. Con los Avalon 1 y 2, que tan baratos parecen, no había garantía ninguna. Ninguna variable positiva que tener en cuenta. Lo cierto es que era infinitísimamente mas arriesgado comprar un batch 1 a $1200 que un batch 3 a 5000€ (que es lo que eran 75BTC en ese momento). Pero claro, el beneficio de un Avalon 1 será también infinitísimamente mayor que el de un batch 3.
2967  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: ATTN NEWBIES! Avalon 85Gh/s ASIC - Auction, ends in 3 days! on: June 08, 2013, 04:48:49 PM
Other endeavors = paying in full people you scammed?
2968  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: The Official "First Word that Pops Into Your Head" Thread™ | Get Out of Jail! on: June 08, 2013, 04:46:55 PM
Mars
2969  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How about setting a MAX coin age ?! on: June 08, 2013, 04:36:48 PM
I've never quite understood the natural objection to lost coins that some people seem to have.  Many other perceived problems with Bitcoin are explained but this one is usually taken as axiomatic.

Is it the lost granularity that concerns people?  Is it a fear that people will hoard bitcoins? (Economic flamewar aside, I don't see why hoarders would be less likely to lose coins than everyone else).

Perhaps it's just because existing currencies are not so fragile.  I don't see a gold forum parallel to bitcointalk.org with topics like "Help!  I accidentally launched 3.8 tonnes of gold into deep space."


The problem as I understand it is that there is a finite number of Bitcoins that will be mined, 21 Million. After that any coins that are hoarded and forgot about or destroyed by damaged media, are out of circulation, forever. This will lead to the number of BTC shinking over time.

This is correct but it's not really a "problem."

I suppose it depends on the rate of Bitcoins being destroyed. I can't imagine a shrinking number of coins in cirulation won't have any effect at all on their value.

Man. Just think before you type. There are 100,000,000 Satoshis for each Bitcoin. Do the math instead of babbling. And please, after you have done the math, be so kind to let me know what rate of coin destruction we need to have for this being a problem in, let's say, 2200.
2970  Local / Hardware y Minería / Re: ¿Problemas para satisfacer los pedidos de AVALON? on: June 08, 2013, 04:30:59 PM
Como lo pintas es cierto, pero me debí explicar mal. Me refería a un minero de 60Ghs por 1200$ estaba muy bien. A 20$/Ghs y 10-15w/Ghs.  Grin

Pues si entonces si que estaban bien de precio, pero también hay que tener en cuenta que pagar ese dinero era un acto de fe, cuando se ha visto que no era humo, pues los precios se han disparado.

Aun así, ellos son los que se lo han currado y el resto solo podemos pasar por el aro.

Saludos.

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Cierto, era un acto de fe, de hecho tardaron mucho tiempo en vender las 300 unidades del primer batch, jugarse un duro por ellos era como jugárselo a un sólo número de la ruleta. Un "a ver si este año toca el gordo", y cada boleto costaba $1200.

En serio, ponte en la situación. Verás que era un boleto de la lotería muy caro en ese momento... Y es que, aparte de no dar Avalon ninguna garantía y generar muchas dudas (muchos pensaban que no sacarían un ASIC, y menos antes que BFL), el bitcoin estaba a 10€.

Pero claro... El mundo es de los audaces. Y el que no arriesga, no gana Cheesy
2971  Economy / Speculation / Re: Yet another analyst :)nt on: June 08, 2013, 04:19:36 PM
Long term is years, not months.

You are correct. And this has been a long term bull market since 2009.

I agree only in part with Brightanarchist. I also said "we are entering a multi-month (mid term) bear market" since April, 11th. Bitcoin will down. Thats what you get after a so obvious speculative bubble. I also agree on the general approach, "buy when everybody is crying and sell when everybody is cheering". Pretty basic stuff. Best time to buy BTC in 2011 was indeed after "The Rise and Fall of Bitcoin" Wired article. But this time much more things are happening, both bad (the feds seizing accounts is much worse than some hacks) and good (positive media exposure, VC's money, etc.).  Plus, I disagree on the following:

1) Brightanarchist, you are looking at this like it's a stock. And BTC is not a stock. His implications are much deeper than those of the commodities you are used to trade on markets. Its growth potential is orders of magnitude bigger than the assets we trade on other markets.

2) you expect a bear market worse than we had in 2011 (bottom was 1/16 compared to the top, November), as you say we will see the bottom in 2-3 years. No way. This is no 2011. IMO the bottom is around $50, and we already explored it. We may very well explore it again, but we won't go much deeper.

Again, BTC has deep implications. More people is understanding it. They fall in love with it. It will go viral sooner than you expect. Each cycle will ignite faster and will go much higher than you expect.
2972  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 03:24:44 PM
Ok , I won't get it and I refuse to undestrand why bitcoin price has to go down in order to bounce back to 110+.


It's because it's total nonsense based on nothing.


Because we had a speculative bubble which made the price go x20 in 3 months. And speculative bubbles need to fully deflate before a sustainable growth trend is resumed.

Jeeez, guys, we where buying BTC at $14 in January. Chill out and let the motherfucker correct before it goes up again.

Well said ... except the buying at $14 bit ... wasn't around for that unfortunately  Cry

That's the problem of all those crying about the price going down, because it "hurts the coin". Come on... It's so obvious they bought during or just after the hype cycle, and they are scared and butthurt.

Price goes up, prices goes down. Been like that since this baby was born in 2009. But, in the big picture, price is way UP. Even if it takes 2 more years to break $266, it will happen. Just chill and relax. If you bought during the bubble, bad luck, you should have known better, just don't make the same mistake made by those who bought during the 2011 bubble and cashed out for good at a loss because they were bitter and butthurt.

Bitcoin won't let you down, just use your brains and don't be a pussy. This baby needs to grow, and this game is played in the long term.
2973  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: SUSPECTED SCAMMER: Mosper on: June 08, 2013, 03:16:37 PM
Hey mos, I've got something for you...


I never once said I was going to jail friday. I said it being a friday makes a difference because I can get shit done on friday on not on saturday. It's not my fault you lack reading comprehension skills.

Man, you are so bad at scamming you are pitiful.
2974  Economy / Auctions / Re: ASICMINER,13GH/s,SILENT on: June 08, 2013, 03:14:44 PM
AT 13G you get about 0.43 BTC/day, it will take you 102 days to break even assuming difficulty stays the same.
That's about the same as most other mining tools' market price.



Yeah, because nobody is selling ready made miners to a price that allows ROI. If they have the hardware, either they mine the hell out of it or they  sell it at a price they won't get mining by themselves. Otherwise it would be a bad business decision, right?
2975  Local / Hardware y Minería / Re: ¿Problemas para satisfacer los pedidos de AVALON? on: June 08, 2013, 03:12:22 PM
Avalon son los únicos que han ofrecido equipos mineros con un hashrate impresionante y un consumo comedido. Sin hablar del coste de estos que es más que ajustado.

Bueno, vendiendo cada 10k chips a 780BTC no creo que vayan nada ajustados.... Pero nada, nada, más bien amplios de margen  Wink
2976  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 03:01:10 PM
Ok , I won't get it and I refuse to undestrand why bitcoin price has to go down in order to bounce back to 110+.


It's because it's total nonsense based on nothing.


Because we had a speculative bubble which made the price go x20 in 3 months. And speculative bubbles need to fully deflate before a sustainable growth trend is resumed.

Jeeez, guys, we where buying BTC at $14 in January. Chill out and let the motherfucker correct before it goes up again.
2977  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:58:09 PM
Ok , I won't get it and I refuse to undestrand why bitcoin price has to go down in order to bounce back to 110+.

Second. I refuse to undestand how some of you can preach is a store of value when you expect it's value to halve in one- two weeks time.

Dude... it has only been above 30 for three months now.  Unless you bought in the middle of a hype cycle you have at least tripled your money at these prices.  However, I'm guessing based on your posts that you in fact did buy during the hype cycle.  Don't worry... in 6 months to a year we'll have another one.  Zoom the fuck out and relax.

THIS
2978  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:57:23 PM
People who went "all in" at 50 do care.

I'm all in and I don't give a shit. I will fall and raise with BTC  Wink

Ideology is clouding your judgment.  Selling high and buying more of what you believe in lower, is a smarter move.

In fairness, I believe he sold 20% off as he saw this down move coming...

In fact I sold 20% + 15%, plus some play money. And I don't sell more because my average entry point is well below $30, I cannot predict the future and even if I see a down coming I won't gamble my full stash because it's very safe in my paper wallets. I'm in this for the long term.
2979  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:54:04 PM
Ok , I won't get it and I refuse to undestrand why bitcoin price has to go down in order to bounce back to 110+.

Second. I refuse to undestand how some of you can preach is a store of value when you expect it's value to halve in one- two weeks time.


Because "store of value" doesn't mean "get rich quick". Two weeks, three months mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Just think that 1btc was worth $0.079 in may 2010, $2 in November 2011 and $10ish in 2012.

If we close 2013 at $40ish, BTC will have worked as an excellent store of value for me. It's the best I know. If you don't see it, then you are just short sighted. Maybe you wish to buy today at $100 and sell at $200 in one months. Well, wake up. That's not how it works. Stores of value are for the long term, especially if they are commodity like and thus prone to volatility and manipulation.

Just zoom out and look at the big picture, guys. Really why are you interested in BTC? For the quick easy buck?
2980  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 08, 2013, 02:47:06 PM
People who went "all in" at 50 do care.

I'm all in and I don't give a shit. I will fall and raise with BTC  Wink

Being reckless with your decisions doesn't mean you are indifferent about them. Wink

First, i only invest what I can afford to lose.

Secondly, in my book being reckless means being out of BTC and into fiat (always considering that you put into this game only what you can afford to lose).
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