21M is not a hard limit where the supply will suddenly stop. it's a limit process and the 21M will never actually be reached! therefore, this is somehow mathematically equivalent to an infinite supply ... thank's to the number of decimal digits, it's also no problem at all.
Not quite accurate. The 50 BTC reward figure divides by two every 210,000 blocks (about four years, depending on network growth). Let's see, 50 BTC = 5*10*10^8 satoshi = 5^10 * 2^9. The division is performed by bitshifting, so the 5s are really identical to 4s or 2^2 for these purposes, so all together 2^29. So the fee will entirely disappear in 30 cycles of 210,000 blocks, or about 120 years.[/nitpick] In 120 years (assuming bitcoins are still around) it is possible that the system has been extended to include more decimals. In that case it might make sense to continue the rewards at increasingly small values. |
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3) Exchange Trading, i.e. trading transactions in places like mtgox and tradehill. yet another "passive demand" as it include no services or goods.
I would like to point out that one of bitcoins main features is the ability to transfer money. Some exchanges are what you would call "passive demand". But if someone is trying to get $50,000 from Russia to the US, then these exchanges are "positive demand". |
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@ DamienBlack We have deactivated already some of these spammers. For some of them we have at least removed the referral IDs of the users who complained they didn't get anything. We even had cases where it was not a scam and some BTCs have been exchanged. If you have been scammed please let us know the exact details at info@bitcoin7.com and we will act accordingly and immediately. I have not seen a single case where I can find a payment or the stated value in the block explorer. Simply removing referral IDs of the users who complain make it so that both the scammer, and you, continue to benefit from these threads, since not everyone will complain. I want to see you put your foot down firmly. You guys are the main beneficiary of these scam threads, so if you don't make it clear and public policy that anyone who commits these types of scams is going to have their commission privileges 100% revoked, then I consider you responsible for these thread. As long as that is the case I will never consider signing up with you. Which is a shame, because I want to see more exchanges succeed. |
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.. and start small local networks and use those to run their own local blockchains.
Wouldn't a small local bitcoin network be easily subverted by the hashing power of a botnet/govt? Get with the program, this is a doomsday scenario. There _are_ no more governments. People will be doing hashes by hand. LOL, seriously, whatever even causes a loss of a "stable internet infrastructure" for an extended period of time is probably the type of event that makes me not give a crap about bitcoins, but rather, how to find food. |
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Yeah, even if this infected 10,000 computers, I would only expect a handful of them to have a decent graphics card. I you imagine that you could expect an average of 5 mh/s or so from each computer, and each computer would probably only be up and running about 30% of the time.
In the end you'd get 10,000 * 5 * .3 = 15,000 mh/s. That is about 10 BTC/day at the current difficulty, or $170. I'm sure you could earn more doing something mundane like delivering ads.
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Tradehill seems like a downgrade to me. It has fewer options and less convenient displays. CampBX looks really promising (and they are opening in a few days). And they actually have features I really wish mt gox had, like fill-or-kill.
The new "delay" at mt gox is killing me. Really moving in the wrong direction there.
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I think asking for a fee to post is counterproductive. Not many people would pay to get a message out. What I would support is the possibility to get paid to post and to use that system as moderation. Imagine that you could pay a small fee to become a "power user". Power users get some type of benefits. One of those benefits is the right to "up-vote" a comment or a thread or a user. That up-voted user gets a small BTC tip and people can filter out users or comments that don't have many recommendations.
I would suggest something like a .05 btc fee to become a power user. Then, let them give 5,000 up-votes before they revert to a non-power user. For each up-vote they give to someone, that someone receives .00001 btc. To encourage people to use all their up-votes, the power user status should only last a limited time, like 6 months. If you didn't use all your up-votes, you lose them.
Writers will attempt to write better posts in an attempt to earn more up-votes and readers will know which comments and threads and users to read because they have the most up-votes.
We could also have some type of down-vote system, to let people register displeasure at bad and or useless posts.
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All good points wareen. A very good argument.
I would just like to point out though that "anticipated" events don't effect prices because they have already effected prices in the past.
All said and done, the reaction to the new block reward will probably be mixed and subtle. It is anticipated, so most will have already planned for it. I doubt big swings in any direction. It may be the first time difficulty decreases significantly. But I don't think it'll be drastic.
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According to this thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=21615.0They are planning on mining to create bitcoins that will be distributed as "interest" What I don't understand is what is in it for them. I don't get their business model. How will they make money? |
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Just wait for late 2012 when the world ends the block reward is halved
Nonsense, that is just equivalent to a 100% difficulty increase. We've had increases close to that. Except unlike a normal difficulty increase, this will actually reduce the supply of bitcoins, which should increase the price. I doubt anyone will be quitting then. Difficulty will increase as long as it is profitable for new miners to enter the market - if miners suddenly only get half of their reward, most miners would operate at a loss and therefore stop mining. Difficulty will drop until it is profitable again. If the price doesn't suddenly double (which is highly unlikely), difficulty will effectively drop noticeable at block 210.000. You are right, halving the block reward is equivalent to a 100% increase in difficulty - but if miners already operate close to their costs then a 100% increase in difficulty would also lead to a decrease again on the next retarget. As the time at which this happens is known upfront, speculators will already have factored in the anticipated shortage of new coins which is why prices probably won't change suddenly. I honestly don't want to spread nonsense so I'd appreciate if you could point out where I'm wrong. It just seems like this has already been tested. About a month ago difficulty went up 40% followed by 80%, and no one left. As a miner myself, I know that I can expect a 100% difficulty increase about every month, and that has been the case for the past long while. But no one is leaving. I just don't see the reward decrease to 25 as that big a deal. It isn't a particularly special compared to the difficulty increases miners are always faced with. In fact, it is better than standard difficulty increases because it will actually make new bitcoins more rare. This might not double the price, but it will have an offsetting factor that normal difficulty increases don't have. My point is that difficulty already doubles (sometimes triples) about every month. One extra doubling isn't going to scare people away. |
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Allow me to turn what you have said on it's head. Mtgox USD has been trading at a premium to TH USD most of the day.
A signal that a premium is worth paying to have your funds in gox.
Excellent point, well made. |
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I am using the market to acquire BTC. How do I withdraw BTC from Tradehill?
Umm... click withdraw. |
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The bid price at trade hill is $16.75, the ask is $17.00. The bid at mt gox is $16.784, the ask $16.785. Tradehill is both cheaper and more expensive, depending on whether you are trying to buy or sell, always in the direction the costs you. The spread is just huge.
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Just wait for late 2012 when the world ends the block reward is halved
Nonsense, that is just equivalent to a 100% difficulty increase. We've had increases close to that. Except unlike a normal difficulty increase, this will actually reduce the supply of bitcoins, which should increase the price. I doubt anyone will be quitting then. |
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I think their API is still down. If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know.
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I'm having no issues but shortly before the crash they added a requirement to specify a user agent in your calls, double check you are setting one.
Where is that documented? |
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The next difficulty increase looks really small. This is probably because prices have been stagnant for so long.
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Some type of glitch, it has been discussed elsewhere in the forum. These trades may be delayed for a different time, may be happening out of the proper bid/ask order, or may not exist at all. I'm sure it'll be fixed soon.
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I was lucky enough to have a few trades rolled back in the hackcrash. Because of that, I've been granted 0% commission for a month. I can't emphasize how awesome this is. I can escape positions with virtually 0 loss and I can profit on the smallest change in price. In the first day of trading I have managed to gain >10% by simply market making using very very low risk strategies. If I had had to pay fees, I would have lost a good bit.
But I don't have much time or funds at my disposal, nor do I want to put in the effort to make a bot when the API is functioning again. I figure that this privilege could be worth a lot more to someone who does have these things.
I've carefully scoured mt gox's website and documents, and found nothing that indicates that passing my account to someone else is against their terms and conditions. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, please let me know, and I will not trade my account.
If you would like claim my privileges as your own, please PM me an offer, in bitcoins, and we can work out the process of getting you into my account. Needless to say, I will be providing my account to the person with the highest offer.
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