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301  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The chainstate and blocks directories on: August 02, 2023, 02:03:25 PM
Pruning can be simpler and wouldn't require you much procedures or explainations, you can add prune =550 to the bitcoin.conf, I'm suggesting this because it seems you are not abandoning the windows OS entirely to use linux to run your full node.
If you're using different wallets, you cannot do this. Pruning also means that you cannot import a different wallet into your Linux instance without a complete resynchronization.

302  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proposal to Address Dormant Bitcoin:Recycling Lost Coins into the Mining Process on: August 02, 2023, 01:56:02 PM
I have to disagree, the main marketing point for BTC economy is it's capped 21M, nobody knows what is the current supply unless they google it, and nobody even cares about it, the same concept of the 21M max supply has been in play since bitcoin's inception, I have yet to see anyone who invests into bitcoin because it's current supply is 19.x M.
That is because people have the perception that Bitcoin is capped at 21Million, and there is no tax. Your 1BTC today is 1BTC in 10 years, and Bitcoin is taken to be deflationary specifically because of that. A tax has an equivalent inflationary impact in that regard. The economics and the math would say otherwise, a generalization of the population would make any price movement inaccurate. I, for one wouldn't use a currency that has a tax, precious metal don't disappear when I keep them in the vault.
I don't think that would make BTC unsuccessful, in fact, I do think that the number of transactions is going to enter a downtrend at some point, despite BTC gaining more popularity and users, BTC seems to work better as a store of value than a medium of exchange for daily usage, the more value it gains (vs other goods) the less it will spent, I think in 5-10 years transactions will be close to flat, everyone will be buying it to store, so the average user who makes 1 transaction a day will likely only have 1 transaction a year or so.
Then unfortunately that is not what Bitcoin is designed for. Bitcoin should be a medium for transaction, for which it was defined in the whitepaper and the progress that we've made with regards to scaling has pointed to that. Bitcoin is not a speculative asset and it would be dangerous for Bitcoin to go down that path.


Ya pretty much as what ranochigo said, it depends on how you want to interpret it, you guys are looking at it from a personal perspective and the effect on the user individually, I look at it as a global effect on the whole currency, while the numbers are the same, the effect is likely to be a lot of different, especially if the fee is very low, say it's 0.1% a year on all coins, by doing this you maintain one of the most aspects of BTC economics which is the finite supply, going beyond 21M even with 0.1% coins a year will take away the concept, so the difference between circulation 0.1% and injecting new 0.1% supply is pretty large, its the difference between finite and infinite.

When miners take 0.1% of your coins it doesn't make Bitcoin less scarce, the scarcity of bitcoin remains the same regardless of the fact that you now own a little less of it, when you create 0.1% out of thin air and give it to the miners, every block that passes affects the scarcity of the coin, the effect this could have on it's value is probably going to be more than fee which you could otherwise pay to the miners just to keep that 21M cap.
It will definitely be very different, but both of it amounts to inflation. Inflation works in a very simple manner, which is what o_e_l_e_o described, for a store of value to be worth less than before. Injection of the funds actually is better, because you have to compensate for the lost coins that can never be recovered. However, if in the long run, you are always recovering the lost coins with your schemes, and thus inflation is always >0. The scarcity of Bitcoin if it is:

40 BTC generated but 50 BTC lost is better than
50 BTC recovered but 50 BTC lost per year.

That is what economist and quants are looking at when deciding on the viability of economies.

The issue is that the recirculation is infinite, which means the wealth is always being redistributed, which increases the inequality that you're already observing.

Actually, if you compare it to the actual tax that we have in the government. People who are holding less are affected deproportionately, and you end up in a scenario whereby miners are always far, far richer and we are always getting poorer. Counterproductive for what Bitcoin set out to do, taxation is crime.
303  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Mining, a Potential Ally in Our Fight Against Climate Change. on: August 02, 2023, 01:44:27 PM
here is one example
s19 bitcoin asic has 342 chips with 2m devices
an EV car has 3000 chips with 16m EV cars on the road.

684,000,000 chips for the 2m asics
48,000,000,000 chips for 16m cars

a car only transports 1-4 people on average
bitcoin(registered CEX and utxo) transports 200m+ users activity
plus bitcoin doesnt leave car tyre rubber (microplastics) on the road

yep EV cars put alot more particulates into the environment than bitcoin by any and all measures

but then compare that to the hundreds of millions of combustion engine cars.. and you then see EV are better then combustion and bitcoin is better then EV when you look at the carbon/metal/silicon per user bases
Turnover rates for cars and any household appliances are far lower, they can be repurposed, sold, etc independent of a lot of factors. If a new and faster car comes out, not everyone would buy it immediately unless their car has broken down. However, if a newer and faster ASIC arrived on the market, chances are, ASICs would be replaced by them in batches and thrown into the landfill. They cannot be repurposed for any purposes. Billions of transactions were processed for MasterCard, VISA, etc. Are they the better alternative? Maybe, or maybe not. The only infalliable argument is that their throughput are much higher, with a larger relative utility as compared to crypto.

Most chips have various applications, but the chips in your mining ASICs would be thrown to the landfill with no way of repurposing them once they are obsolete. Obsolescence is one of the key contributors to e-waste.
304  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Verify ownership of keys for paper wallet on: August 02, 2023, 12:41:27 PM
There are different ways of doing it.  

1) Since you've already sent the small amount of Bitcoins, you can create a transaction that spend a small amount of Bitcoin to your address. You can spend a fraction of that with a small fee, the confirmation doesn't matter. So long as you can see the transaction on blockexplorer, it's fine.

2) Sign a message with the address. If you can verify it, then it would be fine.

3) Import it into an offline wallet. So long as the wallet allows it to be imported, it should be valid and its perfectly safe. Which is what you've done. Well-known and working wallet have sanity checks on your private key which prevents those which aren't working to be imported.
305  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Mining, a Potential Ally in Our Fight Against Climate Change. on: August 02, 2023, 11:21:04 AM
read your own response once more..
"Most of the dams are built to support the communities near the dam, and in anticipation of the industrialization of the surrounding regions. Not so much to cater for the population but rather for economic growth from the on-start."
ill emphasise it
"and in anticipation of the industrialization of the surrounding regions."
asic mining fills that anticipated demand.. yep mining is an industry too
Industralization with how much utility to the community? Does it provide jobs or improve the standards of living for those surrounding it? Does it provide significant and tangible utility to the rest of the world?

hashrate per piece of silicon/metal. shows that having a GPU rack of many systems compared to 1 asic. shows again bitcoin is the most efficient use of electric and and material

there are under 2m asics on the planet currently running. compare that to how many motherboards and GPU cards ar running to power a crap coin

if you want to cry about the 2m asic material cost.. then look at other industries too and compare.
ASICs can't be repurposed. Once S17 came out, most of the S9s were scrapped. Most ASICs were notorious for being terribly unreliable and plagued with high failure rate. Besides, remember that a single ASIC has tons of chips and silicon. Circuit boards are difficult to recycle as well. Again, my argument isn't geared towards Bitcoin vs Shitcoin. Comparing Bitcoin mining to my GPUs running ML simulation, one has better utility to the society and can be repurposed.

Nope, true green energy should be carbon negative. I think dismissing them as not green at all is one dimensional. Green energy is only given to something if it's output is lower than it's impact to the environment or it's effort to offset what it emits. Let me ask you this then, if solar, hydro and wind doesn't make you happy then what type of energy source are you proposing that's carbon neutral? Those that you've mentioned are really good for the environment I think that there's a lot of independent studies that can support that.
None. Energy production can never be truly carbon zero, but they an be carbon neutral. My point about it is when people are parroting it as being superior, "Bitcoin helps to combat climate change", "Bitcoin is the new green currency". They are all false. Bitcoin cannot fight climate change because it is a contributor to it. In fact, you are depriving someone of their ability to use clean energy because you are using it yourself.

Good for the environment is a misnomer. We would be much better off without any of those and it is very much a trade off and choices that we have made.

If it's a viable option for many, then how come people are still innovating on stuff that reduces the wasted energy? If it ain't broke don't fix it right? How are they lying when they argue that bitcoin is beneficial though? I don't get how you can lie when it's an opinion based on the facts that were given to you.
Money and politics. I have been through numerous papers and none of them explicitly mentions that Bitcoin Mining is good for the environment. Any news articles that postulates this often wraps the logic around their fallacy and blatant disregard for the numerous factors that are immediately obvious. Long distance UHV transmission has been achieved in numerous countries and instances, up to 3000KM long. The problem is the costs and time. Governments want to take the easy way out; they will build dams, solar arrays everywhere possible even if there is no use for it. They don't care about the environmental impact and Bitcoin Mining is a convenient way for them to make some GDP growth, if it is even half viable.
306  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Mining, a Potential Ally in Our Fight Against Climate Change. on: August 02, 2023, 10:56:12 AM
current hydro dams do not cause new environment/habitat destruction. most were built upto the 1990's
also when they were built they were not built to the capacity of the 1990's population estimates but the 2050 population estimates. so right now there is in a region using hydro. excess energy that can be produced, but not enough populous in that region to use it, so they dont have all turbines switched on,
by having miners enter the region and use the excess. it gives funds to the power company to pay off the build costs of the 1950's-1990's sooner. meaning it makes the average cost per kw less per other domestic user.
Most of the dams are built to support the communities near the dam, and in anticipation of the industrialization of the surrounding regions. Not so much to cater for the population but rather for economic growth from the on-start. They still cause ongoing environmental destruction, from the disruption or redirection of water flow and these are usually consistent rather than a one-time. The cons of having miners enter the region basically means that they don't have to prioritize any efforts to deliver long distance power to the surrounding regions. That isn't desirable and besides, for the utility that Bitcoin provides, it doesn't do anything other than to simulate short term economic growth.

Key factor is also the salient environmental costs that is a direct result of mining, e-waste, etc.
also if you look at bitcoins hashrate method. asic farms in one warehouse located at a hydro dam is alot more efficient use of electric compared to some crapcoins 'solo mining' in some hobby miners basement because household solo mining is more wide ranging of their power source and not really choosing to use hydro.. (residents dont move home specifically to live in hydro area)
so comparing bitcoin to a crapcoin like doge. bitcoin is a higher % renewable rather than doge which is a eclectic mess of a bad mix of power sources due to predominantly being random home users mining doge in areas the residents dont get to choose thir source nor have planned on where to live being a electric source decision

bitcoin miners choose to build asic farms in renewable electric regions. so bitcoin is more renewable % mix by default
Just comparing mining in general, not just Bitcoin. If you're just comparing Bitcoin specifically, you're going to have 2.88 megatonnes of carbon dioxide emitted, assuming 100% hydropower. Sure, not that significant but if you're comparing to the renewal rates of Bitcoin ASICs and the utility that Bitcoin actually provides, it just doesn't seem that worth it.
307  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proposal to Address Dormant Bitcoin:Recycling Lost Coins into the Mining Process on: August 02, 2023, 08:58:57 AM
The outcome is far from being the same, one main point of strength of Bitcoin is its finite supply, raising the supply past 21M even if it was 1 coin a year will make the supply infinite just like all the fiat currencies,  the economical difference between that and circulating a tiny portion of BTC from hodlers to miners is entirely different.

By rasing the supply Bitcoin is guaranteed to lose value, while with extracting fees you just distribute a small portion of that values between different addresses.

Ya I personally wouldn't want to pay fees just to store my coins, but it is also naive to expect that my coins will be secured enough when nobody has any motive to point hashrate at the network,  when a few dozen double spending attacks are done cheaply without an issue, everyone will be glad to pay a small fee.

The alternative to that would be random people mining at a loss just to maintain the network, that could work but difficult to guarantee.

Now all of that is probably not going to be needed given that in 60-80 years time you would expect the transactions will be a lot higher in number as well as value, but you can never be too sure.
It depends on how you interpret it. The key thing about the value of a currency is the amount of currency in circulation, not the entire possible supply of the currency. For a currency that has a recirculating supply, there would be a fixed inflation rate of its equivalent in the fees. As compared to an endless emission, think a currency with its equivalent inflation, that would be the same. Though it can be argued that the real inflation of the former is constant, because they are always recovered and the effects of the burned coins are cushioned. If I had to choose between the two, having a stable inflation rate rather than a fixed tax is far less complex and less riddled with politics. It is very much a slippery slope to go into; miners would always want to earn more and users would always want to pay less. Tail emission might be a place to start in that regard.

The economics of mining by and large follows the value of the coin, which is regulated partly by the difficulty. Our optimal outcome would be to have a network that has a high difficulty and thereby a high opportunity costs that comes with any attack. If we were to consider the deflationary nature of Bitcoin, it is more likely for the price to increase in tandem with the deflation rate. Whilst for one with an inflationary nature, we would have the price decreasing with the inflation rate.

Case in point, if we do not see high adoption rates by the time mining rewards dwindle even further, it would just be an indication that Bitcoin hasn't been a successful experiment. More likely than not, a replacement of Bitcoin would be readily available by then and it would provide more utility than what we have.
308  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The chainstate and blocks directories on: August 02, 2023, 04:44:30 AM
Both. Bitcoin Core requires both to function.

When you start up bitcoind on Linux, you won't have to synchronize or validate from the start but you do have to ensure that Bitcoin Core is properly shut down on Windows before copying it over. Don't copy any sensitive files like wallet.dat. It'll probably be more efficient if you synchronize on the faster computer before copying it over.
309  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Explanation about digital signature on: August 02, 2023, 04:29:51 AM
Asymmetric Cryptography, for example RSA, ECDSA function by having a public key and a private key pair. Using the private key, you can create a signature that can be verified by using the public key and the signature and thereby proving that you have knowledge of the private key. Signatures are used in transactions and message signing for Bitcoin. In a transaction, there are address schemes (P2PKH, P2WPKH, etc) which requires the transactions to be signed with a signature and the public key being provided. Using the public key and the signature, nodes can check that the signature is signed with the correct keypair and that it corresponds to the redeem script of the output.

In message signing, it is usually done to prove ownership of an address but that is fairly debatable. Having a signature and a message that checks out merely means that whoever that has knowledge of the corresponding private key has explicitly signed the contents of that message.

PGP is an alternate application of asymmetric cryptography.
310  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Bitcoin peers connection = 0? How to download blockchain? on: August 02, 2023, 04:23:15 AM
Are you running any antivirus or are you behind any firewall? Try disabling those. If the connections are established just fine and then disconnecting, it is highly unlikely that your peers or the software is the problem.

It's more likely that your firewall is intentionally disconnecting them after a period of time and thus blacklisting them. Is there anything in the debug log that specifies any disconnection?
311  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Mining, a Potential Ally in Our Fight Against Climate Change. on: August 01, 2023, 03:56:50 PM
All of them are invalid arguments. That being said, most of the proponents of Bitcoin mining as being "green" is sprouting nonsense as well. For starters, there is a difference between renewable energy and truly green energy. True green energy are carbon neutral and does no damage to the environment. Your solar panels contributes to environmental pollution, so does your dam which destroys habitats, your wind turbines which endangers wildlife, etc. People want you to believe that they are good for the environment, because they appear to be somewhat carbon neutral if you ignore the implicit costs. This is a typical type of greenwashing that everyone is falling victim to.

If you're talking about extra energy that is difficult to store, that argument is invalid as well. High voltage electrical transmission, whilst introducing high energy loss, is still a viable option for most. The fact that Bitcoin mining is consuming energy already means that opportunity costs are being incurred by them having to use that energy for mining instead for domestic purposes. That is not withstanding the environmental pollution that comes from e-waste as well as silicon mining. Anyone that attempts to argue that Bitcoin is beneficial or otherwise carbon neutral is straight up lying.
312  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 51% attack on: August 01, 2023, 03:11:27 AM
After that I think there were some pools that came close, maybe some even got above the 51% fo some time, not sure about that.
The thing about pools is, that users (aka workers) can switch them anytime. So if any of them even tries to "attack" the network, it's probably not gonna be used much longer.
Generally, 51% attacks or the likes of it are one and done schemes. They are not intended to be sustained for very much longer than required and it wouldn't matter if the miners switch or not. Since 51% attack works by shifting the miners to work on an alternate chain simultaneously, the probability of the pool miners noticing it and shifting before the damage is done is pretty much zero.

The issue lies with the opportunity cost of executing such an attack. Most pool owners have a huge amount of Bitcoins and it is in their best interests to sustain the prices and keep them afloat. Any attack on the network would tank the price, destroy the mining economy and the probability of their pools ever being used again. It is simply not worth it to execute a 51% attack at any point in time.
313  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Block 14 to Block 15 - 24 hour dark zone? on: July 31, 2023, 07:58:41 AM
Your assumption that Satoshi's mining computer(s) were slow and unstable is not quite supported by the findings around extra nonce values and their distribution and interpretation given by Lopp and Sergio Demian Lerner.

The graph at, the steeper slope of the dark blue colored dots can be interpreted that "Patoshi" had rather potent mining gear (computers, very likely not a single computer).
Actually, JLopp was the one who postulated that there were possible instances for which the miner crashed, rather than being turned off intentionally. This is done if you were to look at the larger dataset, which isn't very representative of smaller samples which were at the initial stages of Bitcoin which was even more experimental.

In addition, both JLopp and Sergio said that it is quite likely that they were a single quad core processor, rather than a mining farm. This can be collaborated by looking at the block intervals and the nonce increment, if you were to assume Satoshi wasn't lying.
314  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Full relay : cost and benefits on: July 30, 2023, 05:23:25 PM
This. I am talking about the accessibility of downloading the Bitcoin Blockchain from the first transaction to the latest is not for everyone and I stand true, I know people who get 1GB of data per day on their mobile internet and don't have access to Fiber/Wired Connections. It will take them 550 Days to download the whole blockchain and by then, new blocks will be added and more data will be required to be downloaded. I am not exaggerating anything, just telling the real situation.
That is a very specific use-case of Bitcoin. Generally, for people to use Bitcoin, they don't have to use full nodes. Full nodes are resource intensive by design and it is practically not possible to go around that requirement. If you're in an extremely bandwidth constricted environment, do use an SPV wallet if you cannot synchronize your wallet with Bitcoin Core.

Satellite and mobile data are generally very unstable and unreliable. I would argue that having them on the network serves no tangible benefits to the rest. Constant disconnections results in nodes connecting and disconnecting intermittently which wouldn't be very useful for nodes who are bootstrapping.
315  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Empty block? on: July 30, 2023, 04:25:01 AM
Ideally, they wouldn't mine these half full or empty blocks at all, and the whole network would just agree to wait the few seconds it takes to fully validate the previous block. But then you end up with the classic prisoner's dilemma problem - it is in each individual mining pool's interests to break this agreement and attempt to mine empty blocks for a few seconds, and as soon as one starts doing it all the others are at a disadvantage if they also don't start doing it.

Still, it's not a huge problem - in the last month there were only 9 empty blocks, and there were zero blocks which were otherwise under filled.
Ditto on the game theoric approach. The main issue occurs mainly because the miner now trusts someone to verify their block for them first and thus risking building a ontop of an invalid chain. That would be detrimental to the network as we have observed previously.

Generally, miners are fairly well-connected now and validating the blocks would probably only take a couple hundred milliseconds (bitcoind takes 200ms but you can probably reduce overheads). The whole issue comes when we decide whether we should just save a couple of hundred milliseconds and sacrificing validation in the process. SPV wallets will always trust the longest chain, so they are responsible for their security.

Empty block isn't the problem, but the issue comes when they go along with it without validation at all.
316  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Empty block? on: July 29, 2023, 12:37:01 AM
So instead they create empty candidate blocks, and then update them to full candidate blocks a few seconds later once they have fully validated the last block.
I have seen quite a few blocks which were half filled if they were mined a few seconds after. Some of them might be included in the block template gradually after. I believe not all of the mining pool updates the block headers immediately either, there is a short delay in between full validation and sending a new work request.

Pool should drop this behavior regardless, the SPV mining problem demostrated that mining without prior full validation can have pretty big repercussions. The miniscule extra profits isn't worth it for the safety of the network.
317  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Empty block? on: July 28, 2023, 07:00:01 AM
When a block is mined, miners will verify the block and check the transactions, removing transactions that were included in the mined block. In the meantime, pool would generally send a template that contains the prev block hash, block height with a merkle tree that only contains the hash for the generation transaction. This way, the miners won't risk mining for an invalid block.

The practices differ for each mining pool and setup, but generally they would remove the transactions from the mempool rather than repopulating it again.

In addition, such practices are prevalent among SPV miners. They receive the hash of the block header and immediately send the new template to the miners without validating prior to that.
318  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Mass hack -- over 1000 bitcoin addresses have been affected on: July 28, 2023, 03:48:06 AM
I understand that in the first place you can think about the vulnerability of the server, but besides bitcoin, there was still a lot of things that could be stolen, but nothing was stolen, moreover, not even all of the bitcoin was stolen, so this is anything but not a server vulnerability. Perhaps the problem is indeed in weak entropy, but what exactly in my case, I don’t understand.
Fair point, but I was eliminating various possibilities before coming to this conclusion. If you're talking about weak entropy, the only possible point of failure lies with BitPay, Bitcoin Core does have a pretty robust system when it comes to RNG by taking randomness from multiple sources. It would be hard to imagine that it would be a point of failure and besides the there are no address reuse (I presume) and it would eliminate the possibility signature nonce re-use (nonces are deterministic anyways).

Taking in mind that the possibility of Bitcoin Core being flawed is fairly low, the only two possible factors would be any vulnerabilities within your server or BitPay. Regardless, eliminating possibility based on the possible psychological thinking of the attacker wouldn't be effective in determining the actual cause. Perhaps they are only interested in those, perhaps they didn't want to draw attention to themselves, etc.
319  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Block 14 to Block 15 - 24 hour dark zone? on: July 28, 2023, 03:40:36 AM
Definitely a great trivia question or something for this one, but we cannot confirm if it's the node of Satoshi being turned off for a while or something.

I'm thinking about this with latency issues. Maybe before the pending transactions went through, the block is already mined, so nothing inside the block can be seen or the block is mined too quickly without any transactions in it.
The first transaction made included in block 170 and no transactions were made prior. It is well known that Satoshi was presumably the one mining and given how the client should report the timestamp in the block header and by the nonce increment, he likely turned his miner off. Latency has nothing to do with this.
320  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Block 14 to Block 15 - 24 hour dark zone? on: July 28, 2023, 03:00:07 AM
Aren't those also considered the times when there was a downtime on the Bitcoin network?

Looking at these two sites;
1. https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/bitcoin-uptime/
2. https://bitcoinuptime.org/

The only consider two dates
1. Date:August 15, 2010 Block:74,638
2. Date:August,2013 (date not even disclosed) Block:252,450
It isn't downtime. The network was fully functional and if you were to run a miner at that point in time, you would probably get a block with relative ease. Those downtime that was mentioned on the site has to do with the fork that occurred after the two events; overflow of transaction amount and the unintentional fork. Those were times whereby it would be unsafe to make any transactions.
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