[...]Deči, fascinantno je kako se rugate Buffetu, a doslovno svaki član Satoshi sheme pokazuje da je Buffet u pravu. Jer, da je Bitcoin resurs koji postoji, resurs koji se rudari, onda bi holderi od njega imali koristi. No, nikakav takav resurs ne postoji u shemi i zato su holderima potrebni novi investitori da im korist tj. resurse donesu. Ako bi se sad zaustavio priljev tih investitora ostale bi vam samo te jedinice Satoshijevog zamišljenog broja (21 milijun) koje su atribuirane online adresama i od kojih ne bi imali apsolutno nikakve koristi. Na što je onda utrošena sva ona silna energija? Koji resurs se to izrudario ako niti jedan holder od toga ne može imati korist i treba dobrovoljni ulazak novog investitora da ga izbavi? Pa ništa. Ništa nije izrudareno. Sve što se događa u shemi je atribucija jedinica zamišljenog broja nakon uloga struje i drugih resursa. Ergo, uplata resursa u shemu bez resursa. Školska definicija investicijske prevare. Ono, anonimni lik izmisli broj, napravi protokol i sustav koji jedinice tog broja atribuira adresama na internetu, i ljudi zbog te atribucije daju svoje vrijedne ekonomske resurse. I onda se ti isti ljudi smiju Buffetu. Ludilo.
Ej fxsurfer/antikvark... si opet zaboravio one tri "male" usluge koju BTC nudi (a za koje banke obracunavaju silne troskove): 1. store of value; 2. value exchange; i, 3. transport of value. To vrijedi nesto, zar ne...? Što je ovo? Online dating site?  Tema je koliko vidim Buffetova izjava, a ne vaša osobna zanimacija za nekakve likove ili nickove. Što se tiče ova tri koncepta. To su ... koncepti. Ne ekonomski resursi. Niti jedan holder u bitcoin shemi ne može imati korist od ta tri koncepta. Doslovno svi trebaju resurse od novih investitora kako bi imali korist. Resurse poput dugova u bankarskom sustavu(EUR, USD, GBP...), od kojih ljudi imaju korist pri njihovoj naplati. Ili proizvoda i sirovina od kojih ljudi imaju koristi konzumacijom ili ugradnjom u gotove proizvode. Ili kapitala od kojeg ljudi imaju koristi jer stvara dobra i usluge. Takve resurse trebaju bitcoin holderi. Jer su svoje uplatili u shemu. Postali su žrtve online prevare gdje im je anonimni lik, na "bijelom papiru", obećao novac - dakle vrstu resursa, a dao im jedinice i dijelove jedinica svojeg zamišljenog broja (21 milijun). I još im je uspio uvaliti da troše struju za održavanje prevare. Za uplate ekonomskih resursa prevarantu. Ili možda skupini prevaranata. Koji su inicijalno, uz nikakav ulog resursa, tj. struje, atribuirali puno jedinica svojim, vjerojatno brojnim, online adresama. Ja bih na vašem mjestu gledao da što prije pobjegnem iz sheme, dok još ima dovoljno onih koji ništa ne kuže. A ne da shemu opravdavam bezbrojnim konceptima, praznom filozofijom i čekanjem Godota. |
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the victims are those that stay the longest in the scheme.
That doesn't sound right either. I've been in since 2013 and I'm doing just fine, thanks. And the people who got in before I did are doing even better. That's the complete and total opposite of what you're suggesting. It's been an incredibly shrewd investment for those who had the sense to get in early and also had the fortitude to stick around this long. Do you deliberately make your posts sound as though you haven't got the slightest clue what you're talking about? Or does it just come naturally? Do you have problems with understanding the word: 'ultimately"? Ultimately, in all schemes where no resources exist and the investors are able to benefit only through resources contributed from new investors, the victims are those who stay the longest in the scheme. That is by definition. The so called bitcoin holders, own no resources in the scheme, from which they could benefit within the scheme. So, ultimately they will be left holding the bag. |
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Ovaj članak je bila takva ''poslastica'' da sam ga naprosto morao podijeliti sa svima, za lijepu popodnevnu zabavu  "Kad biste mi ponudili sav bitcoin na svijetu za 25 dolara, ne bih ga uzeo. Što mogu učiniti s tim? Morao bih ga na jedan ili drugi način prodati natrag vama. To ne služi ničemu", odgovorio je Buffett.''''Svoje stavove o poljoprivrednom zemljištu i nekretninama za iznajmljivanje u odnosu na bitcoin opisao je kao "razliku između proizvodne imovine i nečega što ovisi o tome da vam neki sljedeći tip plati više nego što je platio prethodni tip".'''"Stanovi će proizvoditi prihod od najma, a farme će proizvoditi hranu. Kad bih imao sav postojeći bitcoin, opet bih bio u istoj poziciji kao osnivač bitcoina Satoshi", objasnio je američki investitor i milijarder te privlačnost bitcoina pripisao svojevrsnoj čaroliji koja zaokuplja investitore.''''Ne znam hoće li se vrijednost bitcoina povećati ili smanjiti u sljedećih godinu dana, pet ili 10 godina. Jedino u što sam siguran je da se ne množi, ne proizvodi ništa. Ima čaroliju u sebi, ali ljudi su pridavali čaroliju mnogim stvarima.''Source: https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/warren-buffett-ne-bih-kupio-sve-bitcoine-na-svijetu-ni-za-25-dolara/2361246.aspxOčito je Buffet teški tradicionalist koji se nikada neće promijeniti. Čovjek jednostavno ne vidi nikakvu vrijednost u bitcoinu i kriptu i tu nema pomoći Kao što nema pomoći ni našoj domaćoj ekipi Antikvark alias Fxsurfer. Što biste rekli Buffettu da ga imate prilike sresti? Deči, fascinantno je kako se rugate Buffetu, a doslovno svaki član Satoshi sheme pokazuje da je Buffet u pravu. Jer, da je Bitcoin resurs koji postoji, resurs koji se rudari, onda bi holderi od njega imali koristi. No, nikakav takav resurs ne postoji u shemi i zato su holderima potrebni novi investitori da im korist tj. resurse donesu. Ako bi se sad zaustavio priljev tih investitora ostale bi vam samo te jedinice Satoshijevog zamišljenog broja (21 milijun) koje su atribuirane online adresama i od kojih ne bi imali apsolutno nikakve koristi. Na što je onda utrošena sva ona silna energija? Koji resurs se to izrudario ako niti jedan holder od toga ne može imati korist i treba dobrovoljni ulazak novog investitora da ga izbavi? Pa ništa. Ništa nije izrudareno. Sve što se događa u shemi je atribucija jedinica zamišljenog broja nakon uloga struje i drugih resursa. Ergo, uplata resursa u shemu bez resursa. Školska definicija investicijske prevare. Ono, anonimni lik izmisli broj, napravi protokol i sustav koji jedinice tog broja atribuira adresama na internetu, i ljudi zbog te atribucije daju svoje vrijedne ekonomske resurse. I onda se ti isti ljudi smiju Buffetu. Ludilo. |
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In the bitcoin system no resources exist. Only units of an imagined number (21 million) are attributed to the addresses, and those attributions are stored with an enormous cost of energy.
If no resources exist, it wouldn't require energy to store them. You freely acknowledge something is being stored, ergo you accept it exists. If something can be measured, it exists. If something has value, it exists. The issue is that you can't comprehend the measurements or the value. The problem lies with you. The units of Satoshi's imagined number (21 million), attributed to online addresses, are stored, not the economic resources. That's why the holders of these units need the resources from new investors to benefit. Otherwise, they are doomed. But ultimately, the holders will be left holding the bag. Just like in every investment scam - the victims are those that stay the longest in the scheme. |
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Fiat is debt that gets paid with every loan repayment. Banknotes and deposis are just the evidence of that debt. In the past you got gold for fiat. Today you get borrower's goods, services or labour. Debt is an asset.
Bitcoin is just another manifestation of the same debt. In the past people have been using shells, or silver, or gold for the same job. Why can't we use Bitcoin? Because it's... digital? Or maybe because the governments cannot alter the value at will with inflation? Even now, banks and governments use gold for the job. Why don't they just keep <only> the printed paper if it's so wonderful?
Bitcoin is a name that creates the illusion of asset. And thus, a scam. Those who are in the system are deceiving people by claiming they own asset or money while only name and numbers attributed to their addresses exist. That's why one can benefit only if new investors enter the system. Hence, classical investment scam.
Sour grapes much? I completely agree with your view, in fact the governments themselves don't want bitcoin economy as they know that hyper bitcoinization will take away their powers to manipulate the currency value at will. Fiat holds no value in ittself. it is the value ascribed to it against debts. like gold which gives it it s value "Bitcoin economy" is an oxymoron. "The economy is the total of all activities related to the production, sale, distribution, exchange, and consumption of limited resources by a group of people living and operating within it." In the bitcoin system no resources exist. Only units of an imagined number (21 million) are attributed to the addresses, and those attributions are stored with an enormous cost of energy. In the fiat monetary system debt is produced and exchanged. Debt is a limited resource because it is based on limited number of collaterals. Comparing the bitcoin scam with fiat system is like comparing Monopoly game with real economy. |
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No asset exists in the Satoshi's system, just the records for creating the illusion of asset. But, it is nowhere stated that the ledger shows things that exist, that's you, who's benightedly and conservatively concluded it. There's nothing behind the number, it's just the number, but due to consensus and Proof-of-Work, that very number comes with benefits. Equity and debt are not promises but assets. They're not promises as is with credit, I might have formulated improperly, but a paper saying that I own something doesn't mean that I definitely own that something. Anyway, we've long gone off-topic, and I'm bored with your idiotic reasoning. Bye. You're lying, again. It is stated in the Bitcoin Whitepaper that the system produces coins or cash or money. Money is an asset. An asset is a resource that benefits people. However, no holder in the bitcoin system can benefit within the system. Literally all of them need the resources from new investors to benefit. Further, how can they benefit from the Proof-of-Work that you're referring to? Again, they cannot. The whole system is a fraud that attributes the units of the imagined number (21 million) to people's addresses, and then lie to these people that they own an asset in the quantity of attributed units. |
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But, in the first two instances we have the the records of assets. Exactly. The first two are promises, so-called IOUs. If I send you $5 from my bank account, I will have only moved a promise. Only if we met in real life and I handed you over $5 in cash, we'd have actually accomplished a transaction of $5 without IOUs, intermediaries, promises, trust in general. Only then we would have moved dollars - the asset. In any other way, we'd have moved a liability. We use electronic cash for the same reason we use cash to settle transactions. Censorship resistance, privacy, lower costs, financial sovereignty. Like I said, you can keep preaching your sophistry, but the facts won't change. No asset exists in the Satoshi's system, just the records for creating the illusion of asset. Equity and debt are not promises but assets. A promise is when you say to your girlfriend that you will be faithful. You don't promise a bank that you'll repay the debt. You pledge a collateral, and sign legally enforceable contract. |
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Point of your statement is therefore what? That debt is created using no resources; banknotes have no intrinsic value, they're exactly like bitcoin. They're created out of thin air, they can't be used for anything beyond transactions. It's just that their usage is being forced. You say that debt is evidenced with deposits of those banknotes, I tell you that you can also create debt with bitcoin, if that's your only problem. We have a whole Lending sub-board. There are people who borrow coins with collateral, check it out. Every record of an asset is intrinsically worthless and created out of thin air. "100 TSLA" is intrinsically worthless. "100 USD" is intrinsically worthless. "100 BTC" is intrinsically worthless. But, in the first two instances we have the records of assets. And it is these assets what the holders of the records own. In the last instance we have the record of nothing that exists with the purpose to trick people into believing that an actual asset exists behind the record. Which is a fraud. Holders of the record own nothing which is why they need the assets of new investors to save themselves from the fraud - like in all investment frauds. You can keep with your sophistry, but nothing will change in that regard. |
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Bitcoin was created by Satoshi as a really unique usefull electronic cash system, so if stable as defined like any commodity and can be used , cause such stable and clean, it is also a true commodity like cloud space or time stamping blockchain services....
But, btc got changed. Yepp, that is the issue
No, no and no. Bitcoin was created as a scam where an anonymous person imagined a number - 21 million, then created a system that attributes the units of that number to virtual address of people, and falsely claimed that these units represent some digital coins or asset or money called Bitcoin. But nothing of the sort exists in that person's system. Which is why the address holders can benefit only from funds contributed by new investors - just like in all investment scams. |
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But, fiat money is no resource by default. It begins to have value once it's loaned. Once it's borrowed. Once it's used. Once it's demanded. Once it's supplied. Fiat, alone, does not create debt, which is the resource.
When debt is produced, it is evidenced with deposits or banknotes, that is, records. When a car is produced by a company, it is evidenced with a record in company's accounting books. So, your statement is like saying: record on car alone, doesn't create car, which is a resource. Yes, records on resources are not resources themselves. They are just info on the existence of resources. That's why if you create a record without a resource this is called counterfeit or fraud. Point of your statement is therefore what? What are you trying to say? Have you finally realized why bitcoin is a fraud? |
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You have 1 subscriber on your youtube channel, OP, good job! I can see the message of hate is getting where it's supposed to.
Did you make all this effort to make an account here just to tell us how stupid we are believing in a scam?
I know you don't like it, but what's the purpose of going to a concert to tell people that the band sucks and they should leave?
There are tons of people who will do the upmost weird things that you can imagine just to get some attention. This isn't even about just making money via youtube or any other platform anymore, it's about getting attention. I can honestly feel shocked about people who have failed to be a social media influencer at this day and age, there are enough people to get attention from and there isn't any lack of attention because they keep giving it to thousands of people at a time, each person. I can literally build a youtube channel (tiresome work, wouldn't) or a twitter account (easier, did it multiple times) in 6 months that gets offers from projects to promote them. This isn't the way to do it. Ad hominem. Theorizing on forum users is trolling. |
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Ok, this is how you, or generally people who educate themselves by reading conspiracy theories, view banks and how they rationalize their participation in this scam. That what you described is a classical misconception about banks. Now I am going to explain to you what the facts are.
I would say the above is how you are rationalizing your consipracy theory. Banks are in the business of granting loans to borrowers, that is, creating debt. When debt is created this must be evidenced somehow. For that purpose deposits or banknotes are used. As you can see, no debt - no deposits or banknotes. The latter are therefore just records of something that exists. The same as when Tesla company produce a car and then evidence the car's existence with a record in the accounting books. Once the debt is in existence, people invest in it. They invest by exchanging goods, services and labor with the borrowers for the deposits or banknotes. Finally, debt needs to be paid. That's why the banks use mortgages and other liens to force the borrowers to repay the loans. In that way the borrowers return goods, services and labor back to the people and settle the debt. The deposits and banknotes went out of circulation in that way. Meaning, no debt - no records of it. So, this is a legitimate business of creating debt, investing in debt, and settling debt. Debt is an asset because people (holders of deposits or banknotes) benefit at the debt settlement. Asset means that people benefit from it, either today, tomorrow or in the future.
In the Satoshi's system, on the other hand, there's no asset. All you have is protocols and database that use name BTC and numbers to create the illusion of asset and in that way trick people out of their real assets. Once they are tricked, they can benefit only if new investors voluntarily enter the system. Which is a textbook definition of a scam. So, there's no currency in the system. A currency is money and money is an asset [This is false. -NotATether]. Saying that there's currency in the Satoshi's system is spreading disinformation.
You are once again making the categorial mistake of classifying Bitcoin as merely a security instead of a currency proper. Foreign banknotes cannot be modeled with your above description - because the foreign currencies have backing in their respective countries' banks. Similarly, cryptocurrencies have the backing of all exchanges which sell them to users. The reason you don't see BTC used as a debt is because banks don't issue loans in BTC, only in USD and other currencies. And the final interjection you put at the end of your argument brings it crashing down like a house of cards: Your theory that money is an asset. Money is not an asset - it is a vector used to buy actual assets like gold, stocks etc. and liabilities (an asset cannot be used as a currency). You're playing semantics. First. Foreign banknotes are evidence of investment in foreign debt. Just like you can invest in foreign companies you can invest in foreign debt. Nothing changes with regards to debt payment. Second. A currency is s resource. A resource is something that benefits people. Fiat money is a resource that benefits people at debt repayments, as explained in the OP. A company is a resource because people benefit from capital or the production of goods and services. Gold is a resource because people benefit from it by usage in dentistry, medicine, electronics, computers, medals, statues, jewellery... When you enter the Satoshi's system you haven't got a resource that benefits people. Only a number was attached to your address to create the illusion of quantity. That's all. Then you wait for the new investors to bring in the resources from which you can benefit. That's a textbook definition of an investment scam. People are scammed by various narratives that claim that in the system there's a currency or asset. Meaning, that in the system there's a resource from which people can benefit. Bu no one can benefit from within the system. The whole system is a giant fraud that uses name and numbers to create the illusion of currency or asset or money. |
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I don't think anything.
You ignore the outline of my parable which refutes your basic(repeated) argument. It's bitcoin what is a scam, given none of the number holders can benefit from within the system but need the contribution of the funds from new investors, which is like in all investment scams. Obviously, you are the typical person who is too comfortable with the conventional centralized financial system that you will not accept the new system. Let's end your trying to convince people here, bitcoin is a scam and we love being scammed by satoshi. period You're again obsessed with the forum user. Which is a typical behavior of those who lack rational arguments. I have refuted your misconceptions about fiat money. And demonstrated that people can exist the Satoshi's system only through the contribution from new investors like in all investment scams. Given you cannot refute that, you're engaging in ad hominem attacks. |
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The Fiat scam are the biggest scam of all time ....and they even tricked people into believing that debt can be a asset. Debt cannot be an asset if it cannot be repaid ...and if it is paid with toilet paper money that are printed out of thin air... then it is even worst. Try to explain to people that most investment options are "digital" ...and worthless when IT systems fail... and they will crucify you, because they place their trust in corrupt governments and corrupt financial systems. ( The Dot-com Bubble / 2005 Housing Bubble / 2008 Oil Asset Bubble / 2011 Gold Asset Bubble / 2012 Treasury Notes Bubble / 2013 Stock Market Bubble / 2014 and 2015 U.S. Dollar Bubble ) It is all smoke and mirror tactics for the rich to get richer and the poor and middle class to suffer more.  OP says (WE) in his post, so I wonder who they represent? ==> Gold Bug? / Stock market shill / Fiat Banking slave? (They sound like one of the old school Fiat economists that made their profits in the Fiat system and now feel the need to come to a Bitcoin forum to try and save their old profit Milk cow from total collapse) Debt to holders of banknotes or deposits is paid in goods services and labor. Literally every day by borrowers in order for these borrowersso to be able to reply their loan. It's a simple, legitimate borrowing business supervised by the banks. People invests goods services and labor in deposits or banknotes when they are put into circulation with loans. And then, goods, services and labor are returned to people when deposits and banknotes are withdrawn for loan repayments. So, people who hold banknotes and deposis benefit from within the banking system. It's bitcoin what is a scam, given none of the number holders can benefit from within the system but need the contribution of the funds from new investors, which is like in all investment scams. Ok, it is confirmed... (Look at his post history) ...he is either a Fiat Banking Shill or just a butthurt Troll that lost some money on Crypto currencies and now turns his anger to the Bitcoin community to spread FUD about Bitcoin and Crypto currencies. People should not even respond to his threads anymore, because you will simply feed this trolls behavior. We (Bitcoin enthusiasts) will never convince people like this to see the real truth, because their agenda to support a failing Fiat financial system is too strong. You only see these trolls coming out when the Bitcoin (Crypto) prices are dropping.... because their misinformation are more effective when there is doubt and uncertainty and Fear. (FUD)  You cannot hide the bitcoin scam by putting the finger on forum users. Why is it that you so vehemently defend this scam? I know. Because you need other people's funds to benefit. Within the system there's nothing to benefit from, so you need new suckers to enter the system. But unfortunately the number of those is always limited. The scam will come to its end eventually. Instead of being obsessed with forum users, try to accept that majority of people never benefit from investment scams. |
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The Fiat scam are the biggest scam of all time ....and they even tricked people into believing that debt can be a asset. Debt cannot be an asset if it cannot be repaid ...and if it is paid with toilet paper money that are printed out of thin air... then it is even worst. Try to explain to people that most investment options are "digital" ...and worthless when IT systems fail... and they will crucify you, because they place their trust in corrupt governments and corrupt financial systems. ( The Dot-com Bubble / 2005 Housing Bubble / 2008 Oil Asset Bubble / 2011 Gold Asset Bubble / 2012 Treasury Notes Bubble / 2013 Stock Market Bubble / 2014 and 2015 U.S. Dollar Bubble ) It is all smoke and mirror tactics for the rich to get richer and the poor and middle class to suffer more. OP says (WE) in his post, so I wonder who they represent? ==> Gold Bug? / Stock market shill / Fiat Banking slave? (They sound like one of the old school Fiat economists that made their profits in the Fiat system and now feel the need to come to a Bitcoin forum to try and save their old profit Milk cow from total collapse) Debt to holders of banknotes or deposits is paid in goods services and labor. Literally every day by borrowers in order for these borrowersso to be able to reply their loan. It's a simple, legitimate borrowing business supervised by the banks. People invests goods services and labor in deposits or banknotes when they are put into circulation with loans. And then, goods, services and labor are returned to people when deposits and banknotes are withdrawn for loan repayments. So, people who hold banknotes and deposis benefit from within the banking system. It's bitcoin what is a scam, given none of the number holders can benefit from within the system but need the contribution of the funds from new investors, which is like in all investment scams. |
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Now, answer me: how can you benefit from a number that you have next to your address without new investors voluntarily entering the Satoshi's system?
Why do you always associate bitcoin benefits in nominal terms? And why do you always think bitcoin owners/recipients are investors? If I'm a shoe store owner who doesn't like bitcoin but sees that most of my customers are bitcoiners, I can adopt it into my store. Does that mean I aim to make nominal benefit with that number? No, I just use the number to attract customers to be more consumptive. No new investors in my store story.  I don't think anything. I am just describing the scam. People are tricked into the bitcoin scam by claims they are inventing in an asset. But no asset exists in the system. An asset is a resource that provides benefit to those that own it. This resource can be a company which benefits people by producing goods and services. It can be a commodity which benefits people via consumption or as an intermediate good used to produce a final good or finished product. It can be fiat money (debt) which benefits people at debt settlement as explained in the OP. By holding numbers in the Satoshi's system people own no such resource. They own no asset. They cannot benefit from within the system. Which is why they need the contribution of funds from new investors to benefit. That's a textbook definition of a scam. When something like that is presented to the public as an asset that's called scamming people. |
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Ok, this is how you, or generally people who educate themselves by reading conspiracy theories, view banks and how they rationalize their participation in this scam. That what you described is a classical misconception about banks. Now I am going to explain to you what the facts are. See? You don't care what other people think. You've told it enough times that you can't imagine a world without debt; without middlemen granting loans, borrowers etc., but this community shows you that this world of free trade and freedom of choice exists. There can be transaction settlement, exchanging, trading without debt. Besides, transaction establishment existed long before debt became a thing. As far as I've read, there's completely nothing irrational from NotATether's post, but it's nullified, because it doesn't encroach the way you understand money. So, this is a legitimate business of creating debt, investing in debt, and settling debt. Debt isn't a bad thing, by default. Borrowing money can surely have a positive impact, and there should be. Debt redistributes money into the economy, incentivizes people to become productive, works as an investment whether that's from private companies or from the government itself, helps people acquire a house to live etc., but you're naive the least if you deny the downsides. It's an instrument that causes asset bubbles, impinges on the low-income groups due to high interest policy, leads to bankruptcy, causes inflation etc. For this discussion the only important thing is that debt is an asset that at the time of settlement benefits those that invested in it. Just like this is the case with all assets - they provide benefit to people. Here, in the bitcoin scam, the term "asset" is misused to create the illusion that there's an asset in the system. When in reality only numbers are attached to the addresses. When you use the term "transactions" this is also a misuse. Because transactions happen with assets. Attaching numbers to virtual address is not transferring asset. It is creating the illusion of asset quantity. It is scamming people. |
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~
False. Quantity is valid electronically as it is physically. Take your bank account for example. It *only* exists in numbers - your money is not backed by an appropriate amount of bank notes, because that's how bnks work. Your money is backed by debts - which are statements of amount owed to you, and are hence also numbers.
Debt in crypto is the appropriate amount of US Dollars (or whatever other fiat currency) that was used to buy the bitcoins in the first place. This is what backs the quantity of BTC.
Cheap philosophy. Tell me, what is the institution, organization, person or entity that ows you something when you hold a number next to your address? Well, none. Debt is in the banking system, recorded in the balance sheet of the banks, backed by mortgages and other liens, and paid by borrowers in goods, services or labour to holders of banknotes or deposits prior to every loan repayment. Then you clearly have not studdied how foreign currency exchange works. How about educating yourself before misinforming others. I have, because I've been in other countries. Now when one person exchanges one currency for another that is technically buying the first currency using the second currency, or selling the second currency to buy the first currency. The value of the currency being bought is backed by the currency that is being sold, on the basis that it has value. That's why all governments in the world (except for one*) are holding US Dollars in their central bank reserves, in addition to other priceless items such as gold. Because thy are giving a value to the US Dollar, and thus ts value backs the value of their own cryptocurrency. *The eception is the US government itself, whose dollars are backed by, well, nothing, ever since they abandoned the gold standard in the 70s.
You, as a person who seems very knowledgeable in how economies work (otherwise it would make your essay sound ridiculous), must already know something about how modern banking works, and that is Banks do not keep adequate reserves of their own cash to back the numbers in their bank accounts.This is called fractional bannking (and it has taken more than one bank to bankruptcy) Now, it would be absurd to say that the money you have in the bank is written off just because the bank has no assets to back your bank accoount balance with[/b] But this is not the case, instead your money is backed by the mere assurance from the bank that they will pay you back your money on a later date (It is similar to the US government's dollars being backed by nothing, when some country wants to buy dollars for their central bank).
How this relates to cryptocurrencies: All cryptos are a form of currency (otherwise you would not be launching this rant). that can be bought with foreign currency and other types of cryptos. However, the value of this crypto can be confidently be stated as being backed by the foreign currency used to buy it. Why? because the foreign currency stored as a profit in crypto exchanges (most of it) is the culmunative value of all the crypto currency that has been bought on that exxchange. Add this culmunative value of exch exchange, and you get the total value for exch cryptocurrency. That's why crypto goes up one day and down another day ("like numbers", because behind those "numbers" - i.e. electronic money which you believe (like bank accounts) to be zero). Because behind those "numbers" [actually units of currency] are traders on some exchange selling or buying it on some exchange. Ok, this is how you, or generally people who educate themselves by reading conspiracy theories, view banks and how they rationalize their participation in this scam. That what you described is a classical misconception about banks. Now I am going to explain to you what the facts are. Banks are in the business of granting loans to borrowers, that is, creating debt. When debt is created this must be evidenced somehow. For that purpose deposits or banknotes are used. As you can see, no debt - no deposits or banknotes. The latter are therefore just records of something that exists. The same as when Tesla company produce a car and then evidence the car's existence with a record in the accounting books. Once the debt is in existence, people invest in it. They invest by exchanging goods, services and labor with the borrowers for the deposits or banknotes. Finally, debt needs to be paid. That's why the banks use mortgages and other liens to force the borrowers to repay the loans. In that way the borrowers return goods, services and labor back to the people and settle the debt. The deposits and banknotes went out of circulation in that way. Meaning, no debt - no records of it. So, this is a legitimate business of creating debt, investing in debt, and settling debt. Debt is an asset because people (holders of deposits or banknotes) benefit at the debt settlement. Asset means that people benefit from it, either today, tomorrow or in the future. In the Satoshi's system, on the other hand, there's no asset. All you have is protocols and database that use name BTC and numbers to create the illusion of asset and in that way trick people out of their real assets. Once they are tricked, they can benefit only if new investors voluntarily enter the system. Which is a textbook definition of a scam. So, there's no currency in the system. A currency is money and money is an asset. Saying that there's currency in the Satoshi's system is spreading disinformation. Now, you can either accept the facts I have just described. Or you can continue to use misconceptions about banks to try to rationalize yourself the scam you're participating in. |
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It's a legitimate borrowing business.
All fun and games until you get a legitimate Cyprus bailout and find out your money aren't really your property. They were yours for as long as they allowed you to take them. All property can be destroyed by natural or governmental causes. So, what is your point? What that has to do with this scam? The moment tickets become goods, services, entertainment, is the moment the concert takes place. We're both standing at it, just you have fingers in your ears, trying to tell people you don't hear anything.
This conversation is pointless. Tickets can become nothing. Except if you're God and can turn them into wine. All you can do with them is find new suckers who believe the concert will take place. Just like in all scams. |
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You did nothing of the sort. You just participated in the system tha creates the illusion of asset by attributing the units of Satoshi's imagined quantity to virtual addresses. Or, to use your analogy, you just participated in the exchanging of the tickets for a concert that will never take place.
I know you try to ignore the facts, but the concert is taking place since 2009. When I imagine something, it's only in my mind. When I pay someone and he can buy physical goods with it, there's no imagining anything. Guess what, when you send a bank transfer, it's also done virtually on a bank's server, just that there's no backup, no blockchain. If the server catches fire, your transaction disappears. When the bank defaults you don't get the money. When a country goes into war and limits withdrawals you don't get the money. I am not denying the fact that you're participating in the exchange of the tickets for a concert since 2009. But you're denying the facts that the concret never took place. And stop with this nonsense about banks. Banks produce debt, evidence it with deposits or banknotes, borrowers then collect goods, services or labour from people with those deposits or banknotes, and finally return goods services or labour back to people via loan repayments. It's a legitimate borrowing business. Creating debt and settling it. It has nothing to do with the Satoshi's scam. So stop with those nonsensical analogies. |
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