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301  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Neutron - Unique Crypto of Future Generation - 10,000,000 total supply on: January 11, 2014, 03:14:30 AM
Source? Client? Beta testing? Escrow? At least try to sell us on this.
302  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [IPO-ANN][NEON] :: Neon :: The Most Advanced Second Generation Currency on: January 11, 2014, 03:10:03 AM
Surely the most obvious thing to do in these cases is to take your ill-gotten funds and dump them into an anonymous exchange (that you connect to via Tor) and/or do mixing transactions with blockchain.info? And then route through three different alts before ending up as bitcoin in your "real" wallet. Or do I overestimate the technical capabilities of these people.

Before anyone accuses me of giving them ideas -- smart scammers already know this; the others aren't inclined to learn.
303  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [GIVEAWAY] Ripple: USD GIVEAWAY PAUSED on: January 11, 2014, 02:59:38 AM
Hey hypo,

It seems that you overpayed me 5$ on rNBQUZ5LP727yZ9DGsfLBu9D3cdsxogfGz (sent 5$, I converted it to XRP, and see an additional 5$ in here). Did you want it sent back to that same address (rvYAfWj5gh67oV6fW32ZzP3Aw4Eubs59B)?

Keep it---the community needs more people like you.

Just sent you another an extra $5.

Enjoy Smiley

Your generosity is most welcome. I'll see if I have any friends possibly interested in Ripple. Pay it forward, so to speak.
304  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement on: January 10, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
Thinking about this some more:

I'd like to have a voting system to determine whether milestones are completed. Though instead of insecure and easily forged bitcointalk.org votes, have a voting system that more reflects the objective of Skycoin.

In particular, voting is done as follows:
1. Developer announces milestone completion, and a certain timeframe (e.g 1 wk) is agreed to beforehand that allows votes to come in
2. Initial investors can vote with signed messages "yes objective 1 completed successfully", "no", or "abstain" (defaulting to abstain) to determine if the objective has been completed
3. Developer or escrow agent tabulates incoming votes, produced a table with addresses and votes weighed by amount of initial investment (signed, again)
4. If "yes" > "no", then funds are released. If "no" > "yes" votes, then funds are withheld and it's to to the community to figure out what happened.
305  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement on: January 10, 2014, 06:56:05 AM
After witnessing the disaster that is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400356 (as an observer, of course) (and all the other IPO schemes that I won't name), I strongly recommend that you handle initial funding with a trusted escrow. That is all.

Skycoin was announced Dec 21, 2013 and they haven't asked for an IPO yet. Visacoin modeled their scam after this (Visa came after this)
I'm 99% they will be showing investors all their work and proof.

Skycoin seems like the last, safe investment the bitcointalk community will ever see.

I'll be investing in this project, even if it could be a scam. Skycoin has my trust. That's a lot coming from my attitude on all IPO threads.


Still, trust has been irreparably damaged, crushed, defenestrated, incinerated, (insert more words). An escrow-backed IPO would do something to turn the tables, or at least make the scams be more inventive.

Specifically, I'm talking about a tiered escrow with breakpoints/milestones for completed objectives, i.e:
15% - completion of basic code base
15% - alpha testing
10% - revision of code base to beta status
25% - beta testing
rest - initial public release

These could be modified, but should be agreed to beforehand, and doubly signed with both the private keys of the final destination account and the escrow holder's account.

Reminds me... why not multi-sig transactions? Perfect application of escrow capability.
306  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [IPO-ANN][NEON] :: Neon :: The Most Advanced Second Generation Currency on: January 10, 2014, 06:48:00 AM
WTF is next. Sending it to a random BTC address with no strings attached AT ALL?

As that only has a 1/2^32 chance of succeeding, you probably will save money by doing that.
307  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement on: January 10, 2014, 06:45:07 AM
Hashrate-limitations (Max of 5-10 Mh/s?) should be imposed when the difficulty is low so everyone has a chance to mine some coins

Unworkable, because Sybil attack.

Proof-of-work is NOT the sole "fair" distribution scheme, but it is the first. How so-called next-generation coins handle non PoW schemes is still a work in progress (excepting the innumerable scams currently out there).

308  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement on: January 10, 2014, 06:40:20 AM
After witnessing the disaster that is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400356 (as an observer, of course) (and all the other IPO schemes that I won't name), I strongly recommend that you handle initial funding with a trusted escrow. That is all.
309  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 09, 2014, 06:55:33 PM
I am seeing a first non burn message in the transaction logs DB (tx_index = 423) with the message data "Hello world, @maraoz was here!!!"

Any idea how did that get in? Looks like spam  Smiley


https://blockchain.info/tx/7ae5e9551f6ed0427f1427292952635137137bdca0719990c0fcf4c6f416cd22

Is this what an actual counterparty tx looks like?
310  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 09, 2014, 05:14:06 AM
In order to allow for wider distribution, why not allow for a longer burning time period with exponentially decaying rewards to burning?

The short IPO period seems arbitrary and designed to create scarcity. I understand the need to incentivize early adopters, but I think it's important for liquidity and long-term stability to allow late adopters to burn as well.

As an analogy, GPU miners are what caused the scrypt altcoin scene to flourish. And in a proof-of-burn scheme, burnt coins = mining rigs. People need to feel like they can acquire a fair stake in a new coin without having to buy coins from early adopters and feel like they've been pump-and-dumped.

In that case, I would have to respectfully disagree. While exponential decay of rewards allows distribution by PoB to continue, it either ends up a) putting an artificial constraint on price or b) unfairly dilutes early contributors. For a continuous PoB scheme, I'm not sure that any distribution would manage to satisfy both early and late investors (correct me if I'm wrong). The establishment of a market to trade the coins along with useful services is more likely to foster adoption.
311  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 09, 2014, 12:34:41 AM
@PhantomPhreak can you share how the checksum is calculated directly? I looked through the tools, but didn't understand.

@led_lcd yes, indeed it's a fun mathematical exercise to calculate just how unlikely such an occurrence is. We're talking about "number of atoms in the universe" scales here.
312  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 08, 2014, 11:38:38 PM
How can I burn a bitcoin for XCP using Electrum? I don't have Bitcoin-qt installed and downloading the fullblockchain will take ages on my internet connection.

Electrum isn't supported (currently). You can use Blockchain.info to burn, however.

Thank you. Reading the guide to burn via Blockchain.info, I think I understand all of the steps and I am going to try a test amount first but what I don't understand is how to claim my XCP after I have burned my BTC?

Can you please explain this?

After you get your burn confirmed, check http://www.counterparty-explorer.com/ to see if your address pops up. To actually claim your coins, you need a counterpartyd install and wait for bitcoin 0.9 to be released to spend.
313  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 08, 2014, 09:40:21 PM
How is it proven that you can't access the funds at the burn address?

The problem can otherwise be expressed as the amount of time that would be required to generate a vanity address of that length (length 27 excluding the checksum). For each character in the vanity address, it takes 58x the computational power. Considering vanitygen rates, we're talking billions of years even with the entire power of the bitcoin network at your disposal. With that much hashpower, it would be vastly more profitable (by dozens of orders of magnitude) to mine.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/9408/how-does-vanitygen-calculate-difficulty

There's a difference between theoretically possible, and what can be considered a reasonable probability in the likely lifetime of human civilization. Note that as long as this address doesn't spend coins (it can't), even quantum computing will fail to make an appreciable difference. (See stackoverflow for more info).

Essentially how such addresses are generated:
1. Start with some sort of obviously nonrandom string (1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX)
2. Append dummy checksum to string (e.g. 111111)
3. Base58 decode the above to get network version + RIPEMD160 hash + "checksum"
4. Try at most 16^8 ( = 2^32) (correct me on this) checksums to determine one that corresponds to a valid address; typical videocard (500 Mh/s) could probably do this in seconds.
5. Output the valid address, which has neither an associated pubkey or privkey.

It's quite interesting to say the least. I can't say I understand the technical details completely though, so people can correct me on this.

Essentially, if coins are spent from such addresses, then bitcoin as a while is broken and we should move on to something else.
314  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Counterpart (XCP) Explorer on: January 08, 2014, 08:23:06 PM
I think it wouldn't be hard to programmatically check every address you get from that table with counterpartyd, and get the burn amount. In fact, an even easier way is to check the counterpartyd logfile, which has a pretty structured log syntax that you can turn into data with a few string commands. Of course this will require running bitcoind and counterpartyd on your remote server.

Example from log file:
Quote
...
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Block: 278930
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 1GSJoRMuFEqtx3e4UjmfZiNonoGrHnt5Wv burned 1.0 BTC for 1443.63636364 XCP (b8a27744…79d741e4)
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 146FcHjXUSiJMcYWE7WKPBKSvvCedi2YuA burned 1.0 BTC for 1443.63636364 XCP (e62cd3f0…88fc3542)
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 18tJnidmGRi4QxAFmUQgwdQMJm9tRVZotp burned 0.9999 BTC for 1443.492 XCP (cd68e0a1…13c4f575)
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 1NULPePYzi8oz6r8D2pgKjfAcJjXQGKasc burned 0.30370714 BTC for 438.4426712 XCP (d29b8039…972e4573)
2014-01-06-T10:30:28Central Standard Time Block: 278931
2014-01-06-T10:30:31Central Standard Time Block: 278932
2014-01-06-T10:30:39Central Standard Time Block: 278933
2014-01-06-T10:30:40Central Standard Time Block: 278934
2014-01-06-T10:30:41Central Standard Time Block: 278935
2014-01-06-T10:30:44Central Standard Time Block: 278936
2014-01-06-T10:30:44Central Standard Time Burn: 1NFga6ZVsrx9wP4uRg6rNzD9drbdz5hbsA burned 0.99909597 BTC for 1441.78631162 XCP (460f00fc…c4605fbc)
2014-01-06-T10:30:44Central Standard Time Burn: 1NDBXUBa1DPbPbxLEA8r8FJufzNdrT9Pb7 burned 0.9941 BTC for 1434.57667273 XCP (93a7209d…b2c95f7f)
2014-01-06-T10:30:46Central Standard Time Block: 278937
2014-01-06-T10:30:47Central Standard Time Block: 278938
...
315  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 08, 2014, 08:17:06 PM
The explorer seemed to indicate that burns with different inputs or more than one output to non-sending address were invalid. The only definitive confirmation though is to check the counterpatyd client.

PS The explorer seems to be down, last time I checked.

PSS I think it wouldn't be hard to programmatically check every address you get from that table with counterpartyd, and get the burn amount. In fact, an even easier way is to check the counterpartyd logfile, which has a pretty structured log syntax that you can turn into data with a few string commands. Of course this will require running bitcoind and counterpartyd on your remote server.

Example from log file:
Quote
...
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Block: 278930
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 1GSJoRMuFEqtx3e4UjmfZiNonoGrHnt5Wv burned 1.0 BTC for 1443.63636364 XCP (b8a27744…79d741e4)
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 146FcHjXUSiJMcYWE7WKPBKSvvCedi2YuA burned 1.0 BTC for 1443.63636364 XCP (e62cd3f0…88fc3542)
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 18tJnidmGRi4QxAFmUQgwdQMJm9tRVZotp burned 0.9999 BTC for 1443.492 XCP (cd68e0a1…13c4f575)
2014-01-06-T10:30:27Central Standard Time Burn: 1NULPePYzi8oz6r8D2pgKjfAcJjXQGKasc burned 0.30370714 BTC for 438.4426712 XCP (d29b8039…972e4573)
2014-01-06-T10:30:28Central Standard Time Block: 278931
2014-01-06-T10:30:31Central Standard Time Block: 278932
2014-01-06-T10:30:39Central Standard Time Block: 278933
2014-01-06-T10:30:40Central Standard Time Block: 278934
2014-01-06-T10:30:41Central Standard Time Block: 278935
2014-01-06-T10:30:44Central Standard Time Block: 278936
2014-01-06-T10:30:44Central Standard Time Burn: 1NFga6ZVsrx9wP4uRg6rNzD9drbdz5hbsA burned 0.99909597 BTC for 1441.78631162 XCP (460f00fc…c4605fbc)
2014-01-06-T10:30:44Central Standard Time Burn: 1NDBXUBa1DPbPbxLEA8r8FJufzNdrT9Pb7 burned 0.9941 BTC for 1434.57667273 XCP (93a7209d…b2c95f7f)
2014-01-06-T10:30:46Central Standard Time Block: 278937
2014-01-06-T10:30:47Central Standard Time Block: 278938
...
316  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Blockr.io added Digitalcoin on: January 08, 2014, 04:59:54 AM
Today has been added on blockr.io, beside bitcoin block explorer and litecoin block explorer a new altcoin.
Welcome Digitalcoin block explorer!


Really nice UI. Please fix your url link. thanks.
317  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 08, 2014, 04:18:34 AM
I've put a couterpart explorer online:
http://www.counterparty-explorer.com/


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404562.msg4380341#msg4380341

Welcome trying it. Please correct me if my validation criteria is different with the official one.

Your BTC and XCP values seem to be a multiple of 6 higher than expected. After all each address can't have more than 1 BTC / 1500 XCP.

Also I see a lot of unfortunate people that messed up the burn. This is why you do a test burn, people.

Particularly it's the multiple inputs part that seems to be a problem. The tutorial should emphasize that multiple inputs are NOT accepted.
318  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 08, 2014, 04:17:23 AM
I think XCP is a very promising project and I think I will do something on it (maybe an counterparty explorer soon).

Nonetheless, I don't think this project is able to give you huge return (more than 10x) like Nxt, so please be warned if you want to be rich over-night.

The reason is simple. Since this is an open-source project, so anyone could replicate it without any cost. They just need to create a new un-spendable address and then there's another XCP-2, XCP-3. Once people find the price of XCP is too high, they can freely goes to XCP-2 and XCP-3.

The smart or sneaky part of Nxt is that they postpone opening their source until the price is already more than 1000x. For master-coin, they have no code at all even at current stage.

Therefore, XCP in my opinion is the most honourable project and it's the project really want to create a decentralized market rather than a be-rich-soon game (the only other one similar is colored-coin).

Any thinking about this is welcome, especially from the developers.


once a lot of services get built around the project then it would hard to replicate that support structure isn't it? I would think it would be hard for any copy cat to replicate the counterparty support community after counterparty has a good head start.

That, and the fact that any project that blatantly forked the Counterparty code without adding a drastic amount of value-add would be seen as a Counterparty clone right off the bat. Smiley


The fact that bitcoins are DESTROYED (instead of going to some developer's wallet) will at least hinder adoption of clones by altcoin writers. Why go through the trouble of that when it's so much easier to make a few hundred grand off of a "2nd generation coin" clone?
319  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 07, 2014, 05:39:21 AM
Sending (or any form of use) will come with the OP_RETURN feature that is almost guaranteed to come in Bitcoin 0.9. Even if OP_RETURN is not implemented, the burn record remains forever, allowing an alternative implementation to be designed. At least that's what I gather.

Do you know when that will be release? Could you kindly check 1HGuoV6CUaqCm8CkWRGffxsp6ABYJK9YDR again. I'll have to get this client  Tongue

+-------+---------------+
| Asset |     Amount    |
+-------+---------------+
|  BTC  |      Huh      |
|  XCP  | 1144.93630909 |
+-------+---------------+

No idea, ask in the main bitcoin forums (do people go there anymore?)
320  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: January 07, 2014, 05:26:03 AM
Sending (or any form of use) will come with the OP_RETURN feature that is almost guaranteed to come in Bitcoin 0.9. Even if OP_RETURN is not implemented, the burn record remains forever, allowing an alternative implementation to be designed. At least that's what I gather.
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