I am glad that some members have gotten some value out of some of the discussions of both long term investing, but the value that likely comes from ongoingly continuing to make investing into BTC, whether it is DCA or if there also might be some supplementation with buying on dips and/or lump sum investing, depending on cashflow situations and abilities to figure out discretionary income levels in such a way that a person might be making sure to hold cash and to invest at the same time, meaning to manage his reserves, emergency fund and float... and so there can be strategies that are somewhat aggressive, but if a guy is still learning and figuring it out, there may be a lot more value in keeping the investment amount way less aggressive in order to keep some cushion and even to have some extra cash around that is going to create feelings of wealth, even while ongoingly investing into something like bitcoin.

Another thing is that I keep saying that guys that got into bitcoin in the last year and a half are really somewhat spoiled since the BTC price has mostly just gone up in the last 18 months.. .. yet even though they are spoiled, there still can be a lot of dilemmas, especially for newbies who sometimes will feel that they need to cash out some profits, so I am not even suggesting that they might not be faced with some difficult decisions in regards to whether they are really committed to investing and building their BTC holdings over the longer term.. which may well be more than 10 years, or if they consider that there might be some value in selling on the way up  and then potentially never really being able to get to higher levels of BTC accumulation since if they sell at various points, they may well not be able to buy lower and/or to really be assured that their BTC stash size is actually growing over time - even if their average cost per BTC might also be growing if they continue to buy and the BTC prices continue to go up - in spite of our being in the midst of a fairly decent size BTC correction right now.. .. which would be right around a 23.5% correction from our March 13 top of $73,794 down to our bottom from less than 24 hours ago of $56,500.

Sure, a lot of people make mistakes at various times because they might be investing beyond their discretionary income, so then they may well get frustrated when the BTC price drops because they were hoping it to go up so that they could scalp off some profits.. which surely some times those techniques can work in favor of the person who is gambling, but surely it does not seem to be a good way to approach such a volatile asset like bitcoin tends to be.

By the way, it is true that trading works way better with volatile assets rather than non-volatile assets, so if you know what you are doing, then surely, there is way more potential to make money in BTC because of its close to inevitable volatility..

One of the problems that I frequently attempt to point out is that bitcoin is amongst the best of assets known to mankind (even currently as I type this post), so there does seem to be some silliness in screwing around with trading it, even though there could be some smart ways to engage in some variations of trading it - though surely it also seems like one of the wiser things would be to at least build up some kind of a decent holdings in it prior to fucking around with trading it and if anyone is trading it, then that trading portion of their BTC holdings may well be limited to only a small size of their BTC holdings, perhaps 10% or less unless the person has special skills for trading, which most people do not, even skilled traders might have troubles in actually making trades with BTC that are more profitable than a mere buy, hold and accumulating of BTC strategy.


Since you seem to be so excited about "collecting assets," you may well be too involved in shitcoins.

For example, we can look at your forum registration date, and then we can see that if you had been investing $100 per week into bitcoin since your forum registration date, you would have had invested right around $44.2k, and you would have accumulated right around 17 BTC, so that would not be a bad place to be.

Has whatever "collection of assets" approach that you have been employing paid off better than a strategy that somewhat strictly attempts to stay focused on BTC accumulation?  Of course, your numbers might be different in terms of the amount that you might have had invested over the last 8.5 years-ish.

And, I am not necessarily saying that guys need to completely stay away from shitcoins, especially if they either have irresistible urges to gamble or they might have some curiosities about shitcoins, yet most likely it would be better to limit the amount of your involvement in shitcoins to less than 10% the size of your BTC investment - and yeah, I understand compulsive gamblers have difficulties limiting themselves, so that is on you if you are either not able to limit your gambling or if you might not have some prudent ways of involving yourself in assets that are likely both inferior to bitcoin but also really likely to be quite correlated with bitcoin, anyhow.. (meaning that the assets you are collecting - if they are shitcoins - may well depend on bitcoin performing well in order for them to hold their value and/or to otherwise perform well).


You might be correct I_Anime, yet we cannot necessarily assume that folks were able to figure out that they should mostly be focusing on accumulating bitcoin, especially since OrangeII is talking about "collecting assets" as if that might be a reasonable (or profitable) strategy.. it is like he is saying that he has ongoing inclinations to diversify with shitcoins.  

So, yeah, even though it appears that OrangeII has been registered on the forum for around 8.5 years, for some reason he still considers some kind of value in fucking around with other "assets," and maybe even if there might be some personal preferences in that regard, yet the fact that he is sharing it as if it were something that others might want to do, causes me to consider that he may well be too distracted into various shitcoins, and surely there could be some ways that the investment portfolios of guys might perform better with some various shitcoins contained therein, I would suggest that the likelihood of outperforming a more strictly focused BTC strategy would be that great, which is part of the reason that I pointed out how many BTC OrangeII could have had accumulated over the last 8.5 years if he had employed some kind of a BTC accumulation strategy that involved DCA.. and sure it is possible that whatever he did over the last 8.5 years might have performed equal or better to such a strict BTC DCA strategy, yet I have my doubts that even if he did similar or better that whatever he did is something that would be replicable and/or recommended for any normies currently coming into bitcoin (or who might be in their earliest of times in the their BTC accumulation and/or building stages).

One more point in regards to your suggestion that some guys might be in an o.k position to start to shave off some of their BTC profits after merely 4 years accumulating, I am not sure if that would be generally an expectation with such a short timeline unless they were able to front-load their investment somewhat with various combinations of lump sum investing, buying on dips and/or DCA, and sure there could be scenarios that guys have put themselves into a strong position to be able to start shaving off BTC in around 4 years, I really have my doubts, especially since presumptively there would be several buys in there that would have not even run 4 years, and so sure some of the buys were further back and at lower prices and other buys might have been at higher prices, so the set there may well ONLY be some special circumstances in which bitcoin accumulators are able to get to a position of being able to start to sell BTC after only being in BTC for 4 ish years... but yeah, your overall sense seems to be correct about the longer that a person has been in the market (meaning been in BTC) then the more likely that he is going to have more prudent BTC portfolio management options that also might include some abilities to sell some of his BTC.

I've done that.



Not on purpose, though.

---

I wonder if there might be a bit of a dilemma for theymos in regards to putting out a top reporters post.. it is like saying: "here are the biggest tattle tales," an I am not even trying to denigrate "reporting" concept.

I am not going to claim to be any kind of a hard politics expert, but sometimes the legislation and/or policy proposals can be considered as a kind of negotiations position, and yeah, many of us know that the US Govt has tendencies to act like bullies, and that posturing has probably gotten worse and worse and worse over the years, including that it is a kind of way to project power, but at the same time some of the power projection attempts are not able to be successful in terms of either being put into an actual policy or even having abilities to enforce - while we also know that divide and conquer kinds of enforcement is not an uncommon practice. 

It is sort of funny that this message got cited live by Tomas on World Crypto Network..   it was at minute 50 and 44 seconds  (you can hear it right here (queued in and everything).  

He read it (as a "shout out"), and he said, looks they are allowing shout-outs, but he did not speak of the substance of the message, so admittedly, he must not be a WO regular (or perhaps a forum regular).. not that anyone would automatically get the context.

We don't go from a bull market to a bear market, merely because a correction ends up coming or the correction ends up being deeper and/or longer than expected.

Sure, you might be defining bear market different than me, but it sounds retarded to be flip flopping from bull to bear to bull, when the fact of the matter more likely lies within the context of longer trends, that so far in bitcoin can largely be framed in terms of 4 year cycles that have a peak and/or a low point per cycle and we cannot necessarily know when they are going to be and we cannot necessarily know that they have happened until they had already happened.

Another thing is that even though historically they have been 4 years, we cannot necessarily count on that either.

Sure, it is possible that this particular bull run (or bull market is over), but I doubt, and sure I could be wrong.

I think that the better way of framing it is that from Novevember 2022 to present we have been in a bull market, but we might not have had realized it until mid-2023 or perhaps even October 2023.. but in any event we are in a bull market, and so this price correction that we are currently experiencing is not taking us out of the bull market, even though we cannot know how deep it is going to go or how long is its doing to last.. and surely the deeper it goes and the longer it last, then it could end up taking us out of the bull market, but it seems way too premature to be flip-flopping around with claims that we are now in a bear market.
You can call it what you like, but I am going to call you premature and also retarded for making such assignments, unless maybe we start to get within 20% of the 200-WMA, then I might be willing to potentially concede that we might no longer be in a bull market.


Any of us could look at the BTC price charts and we can see that is not how it happened.

Between November 2022 and October 2023, we have gone pretty much straight up to $30k-ish, yet there were a few corrections in there, so during that whole period we spent quite a bit of time below the 200-WMA.. yet right around October 2023, it seemed to have become more likely that a spot BTC was going to be approved, and it seems that there might have been some front-running kinds of buys going on that pretty much pushed the BTC price up from $27k to nearly $74k, with a few corrections along the way..

And, so yeah, we have now been in a bit of a correction since the March 13 high of $73,794 - yet so far that has only been around 6 weeks, and the correction has not yet gotten into any kinds of violent or severe levels since so far there has only been around 19% out of the whole deal with a low of so far $59,629 and with current prices seeming to want to go below those levels . but still we can still be in a bit of uncertainty regarding how low the price might go and for how long it might stay there.


So what?  Yeah, the momentum and the trend appeared at least we would get through no man's land, but so fucking what?  it did not happen.  None  of the matters are guaranteed, even if it appears that the momentum is going in a certain direction, sometimes the momentum changes, and it is not always clear when the momentum has changed or how long it is going to last in terms of a correction. or even if some might assert that we need 30-50% or more of a correction rather than our so far 19%.. which is currently being tested (and just broken below) as I type this post... $59,068 as I am typing.. but in the middle of a falling knife.. so ... these prices do not seem to be holding very well.


I am not going to proclaim to know how far it will go down and if it will bounce back quickly or stay down there for a while.  It can be difficult to know, especially during times in which the price seems to be moving a lot (which seems to be the case today, with a correction of getting close to $6k in the past 18-ish hours.. and not currently seeming to want to stop.

One

since it seems that 2 would put the UTC date as of the date of the post, which is likely going to screw up your system, since 1) you are not going to stop members from quoting other members and/or their reports. 2) members might still end up submitting two different reports on the same date.. but I suppose your system would always pick the latest report by any particular member.

We have been doing 1 so far, and doesn't 1 already work?  or are you saying that currently you are having to do too much fixing of the substantive details of the report before it prints.

I am not sure how 2 improves anything.. but whatever, I don't see any reason to vote.. .. you just tell us which system works best for you, and we just change how we submit our reports based on what you tell us to do. then if we change the way we do our reports, then you have to re-teach us the new format.

I am not attached either way, but I did vote as you instructed.

There is no reason to diversify for the mere sake of diversifying.  Maybe you heard that idea of diversifying from a shitcoiner?  or perhaps from someone who was trying to sound smart, or sell you something?  Do you believe everything that you hear?

Surely if you have accumulated a year or more of income/expenses worth of investments/savings, it might start to make sense to diversify.. but the mere proposal to diversify for the mere sake of it, just because it sounds good (or smart) does not make a whole hell of a lot of sense, especially for someone who might be in his earliest stages of building his investment portfolio or if he has a small disposable income and he is only investing $10 a week or some small amount (even $100 per week is not very much), then you want him to divide that $10 per week into smaller lots.. .. think about how dumb that sounds as a blanket statement... .but yeah, once you get to a certain size, then some diversification might start to make sense, and perhaps adding one asset at a time.. maybe every 1 or 2 years add a new asset.. .

but no need to rush into diversifying into anything that might not make sense (especially something like shitcoins, which would be gambling rather than investing, but some folks might consider shitcoins to be amongst the only practical things to buy, which might not be a good idea.. but people have to decide for themselves)... but yeah the traditional assets of property, equities, bonds, commodities, cash/cash equivalents, seem to be part of what you are doing.. which is not necessarily wrong, but not necessarily a good idea for everyone depending on the totality of his investment portfolio and how it might already be divided up.

That does seem to be true... There tend to be quite a few opportunities to get back in, but surely, there are also a lot of folks who become too greedy because they wait too long..

And, yeah, every once in a while, the opportunities to come in below a certain price point, become no longer .. .whether or not $53k to $59k become available or whether sub $53k becomes available is still to be found out, and surely, there are not going to to be too many times that I am going to suggest for anyone to wait, unless they have already bought at sufficiently at the current price point, such as buying in the lower $60ks may well give some luxury to wait to find out whether more is going to be buyable in either the upper $50ks and the lower $50ks..

And don't call me a hypocrite since I still have buy oders going down into the lower $20ks, even though surely, I would be quite surprised to even see below $40k, and I think that I was close to be willing to have bet on that previously, so maybe we will see dragonvslinux re-entering the WO space.

Yes, there is a decent amount of personal discretion in making and following through with these kinds of decisions regarding, when, where and how to invest your money - perhaps based on BTC growth and or some needs (or feelings) to not have all of your investments in a narrow set of assets, such as ONLY in dollars and cash.. or maybe even if you have one or two other things, you might not feel comfort in that, especially if your BTC investment might have already been growing for a decent amount of time, such as 10 years or more.

Hopefully any of us would be attempting to tailor our own approach to BTC allocations and/or reallocations and/or diversification in terms of of our own working through of our 9 factors.

Surely another factor of diversification is that people come into bitcoin and they erroneously believe that they need to diversify early on in their investment, which truly is not correct,  yet it can be difficult to know exactly how and what points to diversify, which largely means that individuals have to figure out these kinds of matters for themselves, and hopefully they can come to the right kinds of balances, especially if they are figuring out how much discretionary income they have (or other money that they have saved up/invested), so how much capital they have can also affect how reasonable it might be to diversify, and hopefully not getting distracted into shitcoins either, except maybe if they feels some irresistible urges to gamble with shitcoin then they would not invest anymore than 10% of the size of their bitcoin investment (and hopefully not cheating either in terms of draining their BTC investment by divertiing BTC funds into crap that is losing value).

Those attempts to help on DYOR+BTC's reports is not correct...   Even though optional, there is no need to report every day.. ..

And, so by the time DYOR+BTC were to report on his total number of pushups as of 4/29, then the total number of pushups should have had been 190, not 100.. You corrected the report with the wrong final numbers for the total number of pushups which is going to contribute to more confusion than necessary.. especially since there is no reason to report daily amounts in the term of reports, since Dirty Keyboard's script seems more designed to be aiming to pick up the total pushups that members report rather than how many they do each day.. since the script will average out the numbers from the total pushups divided by number of days doing pushups.


If you want to be in the table, then you should not have any spaces (especially the one that you have after your total number of pushups).  If you take out your spaces, then Dirty Keyboard's script will be able to identify your report results and put them in the table.

There surely can be some advantages to diversifying, especially when your bitcoin become a certain worth and also your bitcoin might overwhelmingly become too much value in one place, and your prior off-setting of your BTC with cash is not sufficient, so diversifying can be ways to consider diversifying into cash, but putting your cash to work.. which surely might mean locking it up and then also sometimes causing a lot of extra work if the way of diversification is NOT mostly passive but ways in which you might have to get involved personally. 

Besides just knowing that the answer is not straight-forward and there are factors to weigh, we likely are not going to want to jump into diversification for the mere sake of it.. especially if we might just be creating more work and expenses for ourselves and also causing ourselves to be less liquid... On the other hand people sometimes do want to have a purpose and meaning in the world and ways to interact with other people, so sometimes businesses and real estate could provide for those kinds of interaction vehicles, if they don't come at too high of a cost in terms of taking up our time in activities that we do not want to get caught up into.

I am not going to proclaim to know anything with any level of confidence, but I am kind of thinking that there may well be some support in the $54k to $56k range - so I don't have any strong evidence for that, except mere feelings..

And, also we have seen $60k break a few times already, but not really get much below that.. before bouncing back above it..

So sure, this time could be different.

I remember that there were quite a few of us who had gotten quite confident that $6k was the bottom in late 2018 since it had been tested like 5 or 6 times before it finally broke, and when it ended up breaking, we got nearly a 50% extra drop out of that...

Yeah, sure this time is different.

The fact of the matter, ever single time is somewhat different, so we can really only approximate what we believe might happen.. and so I am not going to write off dropping below no man's land, until we do.. which seems to be right around $55k.. even though surely when we broke above $53k on about February 27, we surely did not spend very much time in the mid-$50k that I had considered to be the beginning of no man's land.. and also we have not revisited that $53k to $59k area.. which I am not even asserting would be any kind of necessary condition in order to resume our UPpity...

So then why should anyone (whether bears or low coiners or no coiners) be given another opportunity to buy coins in the $50ks?  I see no reason for it.. but at the same time, Corn is going to corn.. so it is not like the level of the correction and/or the extent that we might end up staying down to whatever levels that we end up going needs to make any sense.


As you seem to already seemed to have had found out (from Homer's post and your acknowledgement), I'm pretty sure that the issue with Buddy is related to talking.img.

Richy_T mentioned it here.

There's nothing really wrong with having differences of opinions, and or even mentioning some things that are not on topic, but there is a bit of irritation to see a newbie coming into the thread and preaching from an angle that is not even on topic.   Furthermore, there are all kinds of ways that guys can trade and be profitable, yet it is still not on topic here to either get into it or to be trying to suggest it is equally good as the various methods that are being discussed here.. since we are not in a thread of comparing and contrasting how trading might work as a possible alternative, when the thread topic does not even include selling as part of its framing.. so as soon as any of us get into adding selling into the discussion, the addition of that concept changes the whole parameters of a whole shitload of possible topics related to trading (and/or gambling), which surely we have not been doing here, except perhaps incidentally..

So technically his post is not so bad in order to get deleted by a moderator, but from my perspective, it seems bad enough (in the preachy sense of trying to argue a kind of relativism in regards to trading versus investing, which surely might not have had been his intention) to warrant a response.


I am not completely against the idea of trading, but I am against the idea of bringing it up in this topic, and also against the idea of trying to proclaim that trading is similar and/or equal to investing, when it is not, since trading takes additional skills in which some of the skills can be complicated to apply in the real world, especially in terms of assuring profitability, which surely trading could be argued either way in term of whether it might be a good thing to do.. even though an overwhelming of traders are either not profitable or they really have not been able to beat a pure buy and HODL strategy, especially when it comes to bitcoin.

And, no matter what, trading is not a topic for this thread to be arguing such off-topical nonsense, when there seems to already be enough ideas to talk about in regards to investing and accumulated BTC, so why should we be getting distracted into other matters (such as comparing trading/gambling to investing) when there are other forum threads for those kinds of discussions.

Your latest report did not get picked up by Dirty Keyboard's script because you have an extra space between your user name and your number of push-up days.


Yep.  That is a nice explanatory video.. and only around 14 minutes.


Your name does not get added to the table unless you put your information into a proper report (as has already been shown by several members on a daily basis) and then once you put your information into a proper report, then your information will be added to the table automatically (at least added through Dirty Keyboard's script). 

It could be that I was a bit overly harsh on the idea of trading, and I think part of my issue with folks thinking that they can trade bitcoin, is that ultimately it takes higher level skills (and perhaps some luck too), as compared to more straight forward long term accumulation and holding strategies.

Sure people can make money from trading, and they can even set their trades up in such a way that they will not lose (effectively betting both directions), but it still is not any kind of a practice that anyone should come to bitcoin and presume that they would do better from trading rather than employing some kind of a long term accumulation strategy.

Another thing is that guys likely able to buy BTC at all kinds of various prices, and then lock in their profits, and sure, with those kinds of practices, they would clearly be making profits; however, many times it is questionable whether those kinds of selling for short term profits practices are going to come even close to a practice that largely involves ongoing buying and holding of BTC.


Of course, any person can invest in bitcoin in any way that they like, including that they have freedom to sell any time that they like, including at various times that they perceive their profits to be good and also they might conclude that there are chances that they will be able to buy back more bitcoin than they sold at a lower price.

There are many examples of those people in history who sold too many bitcoin too soon, so there is no need to convince you about what might be the better of practices.  You can decide for yourself if you believe that long term BTC accumulation might be valuable to you, including considering your particular 9 factors, in order to attempt to figure out how to go about BTC accumulation and whether to treat bitcoin as an investment, a trade and/or gambling.. and surely there are ways to combine practices, too..

There probably is some truth to the matter that guys will tend to share ideas from their own perspective, and surely each of us is responsible for coming to our own conclusions in regards to what we believe might work for us and putting our ideas into practice, and no one is going to bail any of us out if we end up screwing up.

Yes... people do all kinds of dumb shit, but I doubt that it is a good idea to be focus on what dumb people do.

The better things is to focus on what each of us should be doing, which is investing at a level that is within our capacities and not panic selling.

but yeah, if you already overinvested, then sometimes you might have to shave some off... but that is to acknowledge that you fucked up in the first place... you can emphasize and empathize with those kinds of folks all that you like, but you are likely going to get push back from others, including yours truly.


Yes people trade bitcoin, and I don't recommend it.. I tend to call it dumb, especially if we are talking about generally what people should be doing, which is not trading  but instead building their BTC stashes... .


People can do whatever they like, even dumb things, and if they talk about them as if they are smart things to do, I am not going to agree... and I will actually respond to those kinds of ideas that I consider to be dumb.. Maybe I won't always respond or call them dumb, and so it might depend upon how the ideas are expressed, yet I will likely respond to attempt to clarify matters (or to state my own opinion) whenever it seems to be a good idea (from my own discretion) to respond.

I had never seen an actual video on the topic, so that was a nice short and interesting breakdown.

It also comes down to trading not being on topic in this thread... so fuck off with your desires to suggest that trading is worthy of discussion in this thread.

It is not true.

Just because you believe that there are people out there who are panicking and who are wanting to get back all of their money, there are also people out there who invest an amount that they are ready, willing and able to let ride.

There is a school of thought - let your winners ride.

Yeah, you might not know that they (referring to bitcoin in this case) are winners for a whole cycle, but in the meantime, you let them ride even through your first cycle, and you continue to let them ride for one or more cycles, depending on how long you have been investing and if you had been able to frontload your investment in order to have had gotten yourself to an overaccumulation level (status).


I call them whimpy investors, and even in bitcoin, whimpy investors can do well, and some of the whimpy investors have done quite well in bitcoin as compared to the ones who were trading and fucking around with selling and trying to be too smart along the way.. , so yeah, whimpy investors have been able to do well in bitcoin as long as they either errored on the side of just holding or maybe just continually buying, even if it might have been relatively small amounts.   

Surely, the more aggressive investors in bitcoin have historically done better than the whimpy investors even though they would have also had not made the mistakes of overdoing their investment or trading, yet there surely are ways to be aggressive within the parameters of their discretionary income so that they do not end up going beyond their discretionary income in regards to the amount that they invested into bitcoin.


There is always a perception that bitcoin's price is too high, especially by timid folks and those who cannot recognize that when the BTC price goes up it might not correct back down, even if everyone believes it to be "overheated," and historically, we have seen this many times in bitcoin's history where normies were failing/refusing to adequately/sufficiently prepare for up and therefore they end up getting left behind be either not having any BTC or having way too few BTC (so maybe they end up FOMO buying later rather than ongoingly buying, including times like now).


Of course, there are no guarantees, but largely anyone should both recognize bitcoin as an immature asset (likely less than 1% of the world's population invested), and even when it comes to buying pressures from the ETFs, those ETFs are ONLY coming available to some clients and/or institutions.  So you can read it however you like.. hopefully you are not too overly prepared for down and failing/refusing to sufficiently/adequately prepare for more up, just in case.


Yes.  Maybe not this cycle, but there are going to be buyers at $5 million and above...

And, sure maybe you are making a decent point about buying support needing to keep up with BTC's price move, but I would be surprised to expect that merely because BTC prices went up 2.75x since October 2023 that the BTC price is moving up too fast for buying support to keep up.. But, hey whatever, you can believe whatever you like in regards to whether there are enough buyers keeping the BTC price going up at these prices, in the sub $100k prices in the $120k to $180k prices, in the supra $200k prices or at whatever point that you start to believe that the price is going up too fast and/or that buying support is not keeping up.. and yeah, it is not easy to know in advance, even though I have seen a lot of folks get burned through the years with their theories about buying support not keeping up.. which also seems surprising since we have been spending more than 2 months bouncing between $60k-ish and $73k-ish.. ..

and sure we could end up breaking down from here (which this range is also known as noman's land) since the previous ATH happens to be within the range ($69k)... but no man's land covers about 20% on both sides of the previous ATH, which would be about $55k to $82k.. and so sure, we could end up breaking to the downside.. anything is possible, but there are also no reasons to believe that it won't end up breaking towards the top.. so hopefully you are prepared financially and psychologically for either direction and not just preparing for one direction.


Sure.. no one should be emphatic about any of this... yet I hope you are not suggesting that folks should not be prepared for the possibility that $100k could happen and also the possibility that BTC prices could end up ranging between $120k and $180k in 2024 and they could end up going to higher prices in 2025 than they had gone in 2024.. and yeah, sure none of it is guaranteed, but hopefully guys have various plans, and not just under preparing themselves for scenarios (such as Up) that might end up happening.. and we surely have seen that previously including the fact that  around 99% of the world is not adequately prepared for up, so it seems kinds of strange to be suggesting that normies are too prepared for UP when the opposite seems to be the actual set of facts in front of us... with an overwhelming majority of the world's population being either lowcoiners or no coiners (in the ballpark of 99%).