Bartering is regulated to some degree by the united states, i am claiming a currency that isn't recognized globally can't be regulated.
Good luck with that, and I hope nobody listens to your advice, because you are wrong. See: gold and every other private currency. |
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Economic activity actually falls to the currency that is being used, and bitcoins isn't a currency recognized by the global world. So your sadly mistaken.
Are you claiming that barter, being economic activity that doesn't use a medium of exchange (or currency), is not regulated (let's say, in the United States)? |
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Until there is any court case, your arguments is invalid, and the people who fall in line are just not strong enough to handle bleeding edge communities like this.
If you think a court would agree that economic activity does not fall under the jurisdiction of the country in which it takes place, merely because the medium of exchange is bitcoin, you are both sadly mistaken and extremely naive. |
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I am pretty sure that would violate many amendments and laws, and if that was true, why have no companies been shutdown or brought to trial?
The men with guns make the laws and determine how they are applied. There probably have been some that were shut down, though I don't know who off the top of my head. More common is for them to fall in line and comply with all regulations the regulators say apply, under threat of violence. |
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If you setup your company in the middle of the ocean and access it trought a fiber cable from 10Mm (mega meters, just for fun of scientific notions, 10000km) away, lets say you connect from Iceland, you would still have to comply with Iceland laws.
So the location really dosent matter, if not from a fiscal point of view.
That's bullshit. Having internet connectivity with a country does not subject you to their laws. What if you connect to the internet via satellite? |
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Well I do I spoke to him on the phone. He risks jail time for funding terrorism, money laundering and that's without any tax issues. Nafario's get out of jail card is that everyone who wants to withdraw coins or shares will have to comply with AML regulations. He also said he will soon have a way for assets to pay dividends but not trade shares.
He told you this? That's funny, because he refused to tell the shareholders anything. He would not even confirm (never mind provide evidence) that he was under legal duress. |
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If you offer securities involving American companies/assets/real-estate/etc or to offer securities to American residents then you are subject to their jurisdiction. I see this stated often, but how exactly is this the case, either from a "legal land" standpoint or a logical one? Can someone doing something completely legal in their country magically fall under the jurisdiction of the United States merely because they don't exclude citizens of the United States from their business? How would you even go about that, without collecting and verifying identifying information for every single user of your service? |
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Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.
The men with guns can enforce whatever regulations on you that they wish. To think otherwise is fantasy. Is it right that they do this? No, but they do it anyway. |
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You should probably all be aware that Nefario is already planning on creating a legal, regulated Bitcoin stock exchange service (of some sort) once this blows over.
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All of GLBSE: I demand that you return all of my BTC to me without imposing this or other onerous requirements.
There are only two people that control GLBSE funds, Nefario and Theymos. The shareholders voted (Nefario's ~25% share plus two others) for Theymos to transfer the funds he controls to Nefario (or a proxy), such that those funds will also be dispersed subject to verifying identities for AML purposes. |
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Getting off topic, but I don't think it is possible at this point.
If you are an anonymous entity, no one will trust you.
If you are a known entity, you aren't anonymous.
Silk Road seems to handle this pretty well with it's reputation system. I believe there have been a few scams but an insignificant amount compared to overall volume. |
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@theymos
oh ok, th.... wait a sec, you're not theymos...
@chrisrico
what's your connection to GLBSE?
Do you know nefario or have something to do with the cgi / database operations, hosting, design, business practices or at least own shares / have a stake in GLBSE?
there's kinda a reason I was asking theymos directly. If for no other reason, becase theymos is a non-minor shareholder in GLBSE, and has probably had a few more good conversations with nefario than I have.
I'm one of the shareholders for which theymos was attempting to sell shares. I hadn't made this fact public until earlier in this thread. |
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@theymos
Why / when, and where do I submit identity info. Mostly I'm just wanting to be able to prove the "shares" I have in my portfolio to any / everyone I've invested with so that arrangements can be made.
Sorry to single you out directly theymos, but since you have a stake in GLBSE I figured I'd ask you directly... you probably have better inter-communication with all involved parties and whatnot.
Nefario is unfortunately still the CEO (though he stated that he would still shut down GLBSE even if we voted him out), so you'll have to wait for his announcement, probably coming tomorrow. |
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Why cant it be set up using Tor? Since no fiat currency is involved, it very well could be. If so, hand the reigns over to the shareholders and let them take the database and he can just go away.. But leave everything else intact..
He refused this option. He stated that he was still liable for everything that had been done up until this point. By that, I infer that if he shuts down now in this particular way (regardless of the shareholder's wishes, and holding user and shareholder money under AML ransom), then he will no longer be liable for his actions up until this point. Everything about this to me says that Nefario is selling out everyone involved in GLBSE to save his own ass. |
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BURNSIDE! COME SAVE US!
I am researching options. Wish I could move faster, but I need to have a solid business plan which includes an examination of the legal issues. I'm not going to prison over anything BTC.  A couple of things you can do. Dont register a domain or a server using credit cards or the like. Use a fake name. Dont tie your physical self to the exchange in any way. If youve done this with litecoinglobal shut it down and migrate to the system i mentioned above. This is bitcoin  Has the Silk Road had any major controversies, other than whether or not to allow the sale of firearms? Maybe more bitcoin businesses should be taking lessons from that one... |
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And the fact that he aligned himself with a nefarious character shows something too. I'm just stating an obvious curiosity. Maybe it's just a coincidence. The same coincidence as a "pirate" stealing your money?  It is interesting, with that I agree. I was mistaken though, Dr. Nefario wasn't the main character, he was just the henchman... |
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Am I the only one who was reluctant to do business with someone who calls themselves by a version of the word Nefarious? Definition of Nefarious: extremely wicked or villainous; iniquitous: a nefarious plot. It was originally Doctor Nefario, as in the main character from Despicable Me... |
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I haven't seen any evidence that Nefario has been paying for "his" lawyer out of GLBSE funds.
That's true, but he told us this in the meeting. Even those that agree with Nefario's actions could testify to this. |
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From watching last months activity on the Bitcoin wolrd it would seem that the Pirateat40 downfall has triggered the scrutiny of various other bitcoin businesses by government authorities.
Now GLBSE is gone. Who will be next?
And are the authorities targeting only securities businesses or bitcoin businesses in general?
Nefario hasn't actually produced any evidence, to shareholders or otherwise, that his recent actions were triggered by a government agency. We were provided no information regarding his reasons for taking these actions, even though he is paying for his lawyer out of GLBSE funds. We must apparently merely take his word for it. Disclosure: I'm one of the shareholders for which theymos was attempting to sell shares. |
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Will anyone order it? If you would order this, please post. If more than a few people will order it, I'd submit it and add it.
I would like to order 200 dark chocolate coins, the Ƀ logo being preferred (but BTC is acceptable) . Please send me a PM with a payment address if you're still doing these group orders for <500 coins. |
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