So you've ordered three Jupiters at 400gh/sec each, 1.2 terahash, for a total cost of ~180 btc, and you have the nerve to write this:


You're asking 5 times what you paid? And that's not even all the hashing power. So you bought 1gh at ~$19, and you expect to resell at $100 per gh?

And one Jupiter might, MIGHT, triple its investment during it's productive lifetime of just less than 1 year, anyone spending 5 times what it cost to buy one is assuredly losing money. Then you want to buy 4 more Jupiters for a cost of ~240 btc, keeping some 750 btc for yourself???

Undoubtedly you plan to buy 12 more Jupiters for your own use. How very nice of you to give the shareholders only 1 more terahash, meaning they might just break even, having already paid quintuple the price per gigahash.

You're a saint!

This may not be a scam, but it sure ain't a fantastic deal. I sometimes wonder if these sorts of things are just a tax on those who can't do math or don't investigate the offerings fully. Am I wrong here? 1,000 btc? One thousand btc.

Each Jupiter during their lifetime might, MIGHT produce a TOTAL of just over 300 btc. If we're lucky. That would be break-even for what he's asking these people to pay, except that he's still keeping 200gh for himself.

Reads like an AsicMiner wannabe, selling all these "transferrable" shares. Anyway, I'm done. Terra-BULL is right (hey, that works on two levels, say it three times fast). Have fun, guys.

It's very simple, if you don't like one of their laws, don't enter their property, or else negotiate for them to change it for you.

In practice it wouldn't be any different than what we have now, except some people would actually have you agree to the 'no-shoes in my house' rule.

What are you afraid of?

Businesses will compete with each other for which laws are most conducive and accomodative to customers. It will work out especially well in this case.

You agree when you set foot on their property, or else don't. There's still agreement, just it's now individual agreement instead of communal agreement.

There is in both scenario, both police and courts. What more do you want?

And it will always be that way as long as we accept the principle that other people should be able to force laws on us.

I propose the first society to reject the idea that we must force laws on anyone. It is a radical change, it requires new technology to pull it off, and it requires ubiquitous internet to make it slick and frictionless, but we can certainly do it.

KNC site updated with upgrade options for you saturn/merc peeps  

https://www.kncminer.com/categories/upgrade-options

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Alternate naming scheme idea for KNC's gen-2 product line, they could just start using the Greek/Latin names of the Roman gods they've already used by naming them after planets

10-terahash miner - Zeus, $7k

5th - Athena, $3995

2.5th - Artemis, $1995 -- or w/e the prices would be, you get the picture

Any society that gives the mob (ie: voting) more sway over what happens to me than what I myself am able to control is a commune(istic) society and one I will not move to, as it does not constitute a significant improvement of circumstance from living in the USA and many other 1st worlds.

If you want an actual revolutionary new place it must be founded on an equally revolutionary new political theory.

I suggest something that's never been tried before: granular individualism. Let each person control their legal circumstances entirely, over themselves and their property. Let visitors to others property agree to the law-set the property owner decides, or else not enter.

In short, crowd-source laws and dispense with voting entirely. Let each person be sovereign over themselves and their property, and include clauses for resolving disputes should they arise.

Police will enforce the agreements people make when visiting each others' property, and courts will resolve the disputes that arise.

No taxation. No politicians and no politics. No democracy.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.

Did anyone's status change to 'refunded' who didn't ask for a refund?

It would have to be a structural improvement that can't be modded into bitcoin. I find that extremely unlikely. Altcoins will be great for proving new and good concepts--that will then end up modded into bitcoin if they work.

True enough. Personally, I'd like to see their next product with entirely new gen-2 designed chips, assuming this batch comes off without a hitch.

You realize we've still got 4 long years until the next block-reward halving in 2017, and goddamn are we the lucky ones ^_^ Future generations will envy heavily the chance to actually mine even one entire bitcoin... per day. That will be an astounding, eye-opening thing to tell your grandchildren.

Grampa: "Yes Johnny, I once solo-mined a block and got 25 bitcoin."

J: "25 bitcoin, Grampa?! You could buy anything!"

Grampa: *chuckles* "Not quite anything, kiddo. But I did eventually buy this island with one of 'em."

All you ex bfl people act like wounded lovers cheated on by BFL--now you can't trust ANYONE ever again Avalon was my first love, they treated me well, but we broke up when they delayed batch3 too long. We're still friends.
I'm totally into KNC now

Shipping "days" may not correspond to consecutive days, for all we know.

It's more likely that they're just backlogged on the work of actually providing refunds than out of btc, I think.

How many refunds can one person process a day and also be sure they're not getting scammed for 100 btc. People sending partial information, or wrong information, people giving the wrong order# (as I almost did), etc.

Did you find that from mine's blockchain tx history? Or is this a known Bitsyncom addy. I seem to recall them disclaiming others who'd claimed to have found their huge cash of bitcoin, when in fact it was probably a Bitpay addy the whole time.

"Shipping begins" implies a lot, however.

It may mean they begin work on shipping B3 that day. I know everyone wanted it to mean they were actually sending Avalons out the door that day but that's not how I see it working.

I think it means the stacks of finished machines they have in a warehouse over there they now know how many they need to bring in-doors and begin boxing, etc., because the day before was the last day to ask for refund.

So say 200 people asked for 'funds, they bring 300 Avalons to their shipping area and begin paying people to box and label and organize.

Probably the first ones out the door could be by the end of this week or maybe into next week. Who really knows.

Did you ask before Monday? The 14th was supposed to be the cut-off date for refunds.

Even if people aren't getting shipping notices on monday, I'll bet they've finalized the shipping and are deep into it now.

I'd guess most of the people who asked for a refund early on have got it by now and I'm just the first early-asker to see this thread. They're processing these by hand, no doubt. Maybe they've gotten way more refund requests than they expected.

Sad thing is, maybe that's delaying B3 shipping for those who stayed the course too.

What sort of proof would you like. I assure you I'm being forthright here.

I was about to give the blockchain.info transaction URL in that post but I didn't particularly want to dox my coins. But I guess it doesn't matter really ultimately. Here the tx off my QT:



Here's the corresponding Blockchain url: https://blockchain.info/address/1FqkceZNHe7jrviD2KPCUKV89FfyRraHdq

I tried looking backwards into a few of those sending addresses but didn't find anything particularly interesting. For all I know they're purchases off some exchange and not even related to Bitsyncom or Bitpay. Maybe we have some blockchain wizards in here whom can bring blockchain-treeing visualization powers to bear or something.

Edit:

Here's the other tx's to fill out the full 102 btc or w/e, plus some change I already had on there:



And this shows the last transaction that that one doesn't:

Do the math yourself (use expert mode).

Also, ASICs run in 6 month sets more like, not years Profit is extremely front-loaded, which is why shipping position and delays are such a huge deal.

I don't think there were explicitly considering sub-$1,000, they just made a cheaper device, the Mercury. They don't want to do sub $1k because they don't want the support headache of having thousands of customers.

Really? Did all you guys actually ask for a refund too? I don't see anyone saying that.

I asked for a refund on Friday I think it was, using the link provided in the newsletter they sent out that day, gave them all the details they asked for (Bitpay URL, Order#, etc.) and received a full refund practically that day. Maybe I was one of the first refunds they processed, dunno.

I asked for a refund because the numbers seem too skinny now; I doubt whether we could have achieved ROI, too many unknowns.

Also, my store status says "refunded" also. Maybe it's just a store bug on their part if you guys didn't ask for refunds.

Or maybe they've decided to refund everyone and are waiting to get send-to addresses from you all. I gave them a new address, I didn't receive coins from the one I originally sent from.

Also, my order number is in the 9000's.

For one thing, KNC only has to put 4 chips on a board to complete a miner.

Bitfury has to put dozens of chips into their miners, and involve daughter-boards and multiple heat-sinks, etc.

Beyond that, who is installing / manufacturing the Bitfury chips in miners? KNC already has miner manfucturing lined up with a pro company.

Yeah, I think they're more likely to immediately begin producing a better, faster device, a gen-2 device, than  start selling chips.