I am a first day ICO investor and beta tester. I am really satisfied of the ICNX trading experience, easy and fast. They recently added KYC feature to the platform to prepare the launch. Personally I think it's a smart move, it will avoid tons of potential legal issues. I also have some issue with cell phone verification, after exchanging several emails, they solved my issue in a very effective way. I have no doubt on the capability of the team. They really did a great job so far.
Price wise, we are pretty stable around 0.3 USD and it's only 6 months, I am confident that we will be a unicorn crypto some day. We are still in the early stage and ICN needs to distribute more evenly throughout the year. As a long time investor, I am not worried at all, our day will come. We will be like ether, dash or even BTC today, what we need is the patient to develop the product and business.
Unicorn? Make that a rhinoceros. A rhinoceros? So, extremely rare and valuable but actually real? Yeah that sounds more accurate. |
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Well guys, the situation is this: Augur, Eth, Digix ...... To the moon. Now only ICONOMI is missing!  wait wait wait ... Iconomi is still gonna start..if you want to go ... go now to da moon...not with ICONOMI Quick, everybody sell ICN low and buy ETH now that it is up 100+% in the last week!!! Buy high sell low it's the way to go! |
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So the team said they were going to release code on github two days before the ICO. That would be today, has the code been released?
Yes, it's a snapshot of the code, you can find it on the OP. So, what is your final target price to scam? They want to raise 15 million USD during the ICO. Aaaand they are only selling 51% of the supply. So they hope to reach an initial market capitalization of around 30 million. For vaporware. Lol. Here's my take on the ICO, without even having to consider the very real possibility of this being an outright scam: They want to raise 15 million dollars in the ICO for only 51% of the supply. That's an initial market capitalization of 30 million. Based on what? What justifies the biggest initial market capitalization in the history of crypto ICOs? How is this supposed to look appealing to an ICO investor? There is little room to grow and tons of room for the price to fall. Now factor in the additional fact the team is also going to have 29% of the supply that they will be selling to further fund the project (as if 15 million isn't enough?) and the fact the angel backers invested only ~1 million and got 20% of the supply meaning they paid 1/6th what ICO investors will have to pay and they can dump their coins all the way down to 1/6 the ICO price and sell for a profit all the way down. Now how does this look for ICO investors? Like a total ripoff? Looks like a one stage pyramid scheme to benefit the angel investors and team only. How the hell are you going to support an initial market cap of 30 mil when you also have that sell pressure coming from the 49% premine? Why wouldn't somebody just wait until after the ICO to buy on the inevitable dump below ICO price? That way you could also wait and see for certain whether or not it is a scam. Hi Stomia, The Angel Backers are not getting 20%, they are getting around 8%, the other 12% is to be delivered to the development team over the next few years. Take a look at how we distribute the other 29%: 29% of Qtum tokens (29,000,000 QTUM) will be allocated to community initiatives concerning business development, as well as academic research, education, and market expansion
During the next four years, the Qtum foundation will allocate 29% of the initial QTUM supply to third parties promoting the application and growth of the Qtum ecosystem. This budget will be held in publically viewable wallets and subjected to community scrutiny. Potential surpluses arising from this activity will be redistributed among Qtum token and stakeholders.We go into detail about this here: https://qtum.org/en/crowdsaleSo how much did the team pay for 12% of the supply? Or is that where your salary solely comes from? Because you already plan on raising 15 million USD, why do you need 12% of supply as well? 12% of the supply would be valued at over 3.5 million if you end up raising 15 mil during the sale of 51% of the supply in the ICO. And yeah I can read all about how you plan to use the 29% but that still doesn't justify why you need to withhold 29% of the supply for promotions etc in the first place when you are planning on raising 15 million USD from ICO investors (and already have raised 1 million from angel investors, right?). Why can't you use some of that 16 million instead of screwing ICO investors over by taking away a huge chunk (more than 1/4th) of the supply available to them during the ICO? How hard of a idea is it for you to grasp that a 49% premine + 15 million USD ICO is an unprecedented and unjustified funding structure? I know you aren't going to budge, but if you think people are going to stop criticizing this aspect of the ICO you are dead wrong. And it will have an effect on how many people participate and how much money they are willing to risk. I guess we will just have to wait and see how the ICO turns out, but if it is a flop I would guess that has more to do with the ICO structure and logistics than it does with the scam accusations. |
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So the team said they were going to release code on github two days before the ICO. That would be today, has the code been released?
Yes, it's a snapshot of the code, you can find it on the OP. So, what is your final target price to scam? They want to raise 15 million USD during the ICO. Aaaand they are only selling 51% of the supply. So they hope to reach an initial market capitalization of around 30 million. Lol. Here's my take on the ICO, without even having to consider the very real possibility of this being an outright scam: They want to raise 15 million dollars in the ICO for only 51% of the supply. That's an initial market capitalization of 30 million. Based on what? What justifies the biggest initial market capitalization in the history of crypto ICOs? How is this supposed to look appealing to an ICO investor? There is little room to grow and tons of room for the price to fall. Now factor in the additional fact the team is also going to have 29% of the supply that they will be selling to further fund the project (as if 15 million isn't enough?) and the fact the angel backers invested only ~1 million and got 20% of the supply meaning they paid 1/6th what ICO investors will have to pay and they can dump their coins all the way down to 1/6 the ICO price and sell for a profit all the way down. Now how does this look for ICO investors? Like a total ripoff? Looks like a one stage pyramid scheme to benefit the angel investors and team only. How the hell are you going to support an initial market cap of 30 mil when you also have that sell pressure coming from the 49% premine? Why wouldn't somebody just wait until after the ICO to buy on the inevitable dump below ICO price? That way you could also wait and see for certain whether or not it is a scam. |
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So the team said they were going to release code on github two days before the ICO. That would be today, has the code been released?
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Sure. And some people just want to make it clear to others that there are some additional not so obvious risks here.
Whitepapers are cool but are they still going to release some code before the ICO?
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Synereo... despite the scam and toxic development team? Good job on your homework guys. I think I'll invest my capital myself. I don't know jack about synereo but I've never heard it was a scam, can you link me to that info?  Only 1% is synereo, easy for the team to change out for something else if something compelling is presented to them. |
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why there is no date for final release ?
what will make icnx and icnp strong ?
No specific date for final release because they are still beta testing the platform. ICNX and ICNP are index funds so they will be as strong as their underlying components. They will be most similar to an ETF type of index fund since they are going to be traded on exchanges. |
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Actually this is the composition from 21 December 2016  So BTC isn't the biggest component by much. But of course most every alt price is somewhat dependent on BTC. Anybody know if/how it has been changed since? |
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So correct me if I am wrong about ICNX. ICNX is currently just an index which describe the behavior of ICONOMI fund portfolio (bitcoin, eth, monero, etc...basically in what they have invested???) regarding to the weights (assigned to those cryptos)? So this index will become a token and he will be totally depended on other cryptocoin prices fluctuation (that are in the icnx pool)? In that case (teoretical perspective  ), if BTC crashes (he has the highest weight) price of a ICNX token will rapidly fall? If I have right idea about this, what do you think initial price would be? Yeah that is how an index fund works. The crash of a large component will strongly negatively impact the price of the index unless the other components happen to balance it out. The fund is more than just btc so it can still perform better than btc during a btc dump (could also perform worse too), meaning it could act like a hedge for btc dumps. And if the fund becomes more diversified it will become more stable and less dependent on BTC price. The point of this fund as I understand it is to capitalize on the collective growth of the cryptocurrency markets, kind of like the S&P 500 but with cryptocurrency. So if you think the cryptocurrency economy as a whole is going to grow in the future it is a way to invest in that. An easy way to invest without putting your eggs in one basket. Of course you can manage your own portfolio but this is supposed to be for people who don't want to or would rather invest in a portfolio managed by somebody with more experience. |
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It's an index fund of different cryptos, its value is determined by the value of its components and their weightings.
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... and stackoverflow you will also notice those accounts were actually created right after the release of qtum ...
Looks like you're paranoid now  stackoverflow: Date Registered: April 14, 2015 Oh sorry I made a mistake and confused you with another sockpuppet, thanks for correcting it. It's still clear as day you are a shill and I implore anybody who doubts that to simply look through your posts. I love how you don't even try to refute/challenge any of the other things I said in my post lol you just cut it out of the quote in hopes less people will see it. Well, too bad because here it is again: Let's just pretend for a moment there is nothing to worry about here in terms of the project being a scam:
Even if this didn't reek of scam they want to raise 15 million dollars in the ICO for only 51% of the supply. That's an initial market capitalization of 30 million. Based on what? What justifies the biggest initial market capitalization in the history of crypto ICOs? There isn't even a github yet. It's ridiculous. What sane investor would invest in this? There is little room to grow and tons of room for the price to fall. With an initial market cap of 30 mil how could anybody expect to make a profit by investing in the ICO, even if this isn't a scam?
Factor in the additional fact the team is also going to have 29% of the supply that they will be selling to further fund the project (as if 15 million isn't enough?) and the fact the angel backers invested only ~1 million and got 20% of the supply meaning they paid 1/6th what ICO investors will have to pay and they can dump their coins all the way down to 1/6 the ICO price and still sell for a profit. How the hell are you going to support an initial market cap of 30 mil when you also have that type of sell pressure coming from the 49% premine? Even if the team were clean as a whistle how is anybody dumb enough to think this is a sound investment? Why wouldn't somebody just wait until after the ICO to buy on the inevitable dump below ICO price? That way you could also wait and see for certain whether or not it is a scam. |
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cybterpunk, BTCspace, and stackoverflow are clearly shills for this project. It is beyond obvious if you just take a quick glance at their post history and in the case of cybterpunk and stackoverflow you will also notice those accounts were actually created right after the release of qtum for the sole purpose of shilling it. Nobody else on this forum is supporting this project except these shills, a few other even newer sockpuppet accounts that aren't even worth mentioning, and the accounts of the team themselves. Literally everybody else is calling this out for what it is.
I can't believe this is even still set to happen, and with the absurd ICO pricing too.
Let's just pretend for a moment there is nothing to worry about here in terms of the project being a scam:
Even if this didn't reek of scam they want to raise 15 million dollars in the ICO for only 51% of the supply. That's an initial market capitalization of 30 million. Based on what? What justifies the biggest initial market capitalization in the history of crypto ICOs? There isn't even a github yet. It's ridiculous. What sane investor would invest in this? There is little room to grow and tons of room for the price to fall. With an initial market cap of 30 mil how could anybody expect to make a profit by investing in the ICO, even if this isn't a scam?
Factor in the additional fact the team is also going to have 29% of the supply that they will be selling to further fund the project (as if 15 million isn't enough?) and the fact the angel backers invested only ~1 million and got 20% of the supply meaning they paid 1/6th what ICO investors will have to pay and they can dump their coins all the way down to 1/6 the ICO price and still sell for a profit. How the hell are you going to support an initial market cap of 30 mil when you also have that type of sell pressure coming from the 49% premine? Even if the team were clean as a whistle how is anybody dumb enough to think this is a sound investment?
Why wouldn't somebody just wait until after the ICO to buy on the inevitable dump below ICO price? That way you could also wait and see for certain whether or not it is a scam.
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****
My take is that with ICN, you have to report dividends to the government and pay taxes on them. But with ICNX, you do not have to pay taxes on them until you sell them.
Good joke man for me. Where those ICNs are rigged to one person  ? Or where on ETH network any token have owner ? As you see is IMPOSSIBLE to tax you directly. In EU that works that way you have to sell crypto to fiat make bank transfer and then you report income and pay tax. ICN like ICNX are same in matter of taxation till you sell your dividend for ETH for fiat USD/Euro you have earned 0. Unrealized profit is not real profit in crypto until you will find fiat buyer you can not say you earned anything. ICNX and ICN are same in taxation - in my country gains come when you capitalize in fiat profit not by just keeping it. In stock market people are avoiding keeping cash on account at end of fiscal year they buy stock report 0 income then they sell next day to keep fiat in broker account until you move money in fiat out of stock market you have 0 to pay. This is good tactic in tax dodging. Besides of that in EU there are countries where you have 0% capital gains  like Estonia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_taxBut every country is different while your ICN on your ETH wallet are not bound to anyone - but I don't stop you for paying if you really want. That doesn't fly. I am morally opposed to any taxation, but leagaly speaking, you have to pay taxes on any gains you make, fiat or otherwise. For example if you trade bitcoin for ethereum, you must pay taxes on any gains you made from that trade. Uh no you don't pay taxes until a profit is realized. It depends on the jurisdiction and the type of profit we are talking about. In a lot of places like US or Slovenia, there is a distinction between capital gains and income. Making a profit from trading is often considered capital gains. Making a profit from doing a service or mining is often considered income. A lot of jurisdictions might consider a crypto dividend to be similar to mining, meaning it would be taxed as income based on the fiat exchange rate at the time it was received. But what if the dividend is in the form of an altcoin that has no direct fiat exchange rate? Or what if the "dividend" is like Bitshares where they burn a portion of the supply to give the same effect as sending a dividend? It's still a bit unregulated, I haven't seen any regulators even mention a crypto dividend yet. This is true I should have specified capital gains, I was addressing his example of trading btc to eth which is more clear in my edited version (I have a bad habit of publishing posts and then immediately realizing there is more I wanted to include so I go back and edit it as fast as I can but it's usually too late and people have already replied to my original post). I imagine a crypto dividend, as with ordinary dividends, will be considered income since no matter what the exchange rate is it is always a profit in a manner similar to mining (although I suppose you could argue that below a certain exchange rate you can actually incur a loss through mining due to electricity expenses). But then when is the amount of profit from the ETH dividend determined? With normal fiat dividends there isn't this extra conversion step. Do you use the exchange rate right as the eth is received, or when you go to sell it, or if you don't sell it is it based on the exchange rate at the time of reporting? If you report profit based on the exchange rate right as the eth comes in, then what happens if you hold onto the eth and its price increases or decreases? Are those now capital gains/losses you need to report too? |
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****
My take is that with ICN, you have to report dividends to the government and pay taxes on them. But with ICNX, you do not have to pay taxes on them until you sell them.
Good joke man for me. Where those ICNs are rigged to one person ? Or where on ETH network any token have owner ? As you see is IMPOSSIBLE to tax you directly. In EU that works that way you have to sell crypto to fiat make bank transfer and then you report income and pay tax. ICN like ICNX are same in matter of taxation till you sell your dividend for ETH for fiat USD/Euro you have earned 0. Unrealized profit is not real profit in crypto until you will find fiat buyer you can not say you earned anything. ICNX and ICN are same in taxation - in my country gains come when you capitalize in fiat profit not by just keeping it. In stock market people are avoiding keeping cash on account at end of fiscal year they buy stock report 0 income then they sell next day to keep fiat in broker account until you move money in fiat out of stock market you have 0 to pay. This is good tactic in tax dodging. Besides of that in EU there are countries where you have 0% capital gains like Estonia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_taxBut every country is different while your ICN on your ETH wallet are not bound to anyone - but I don't stop you for paying if you really want. That doesn't fly. I am morally opposed to any taxation, but leagaly speaking, you have to pay taxes on any gains you make, fiat or otherwise. For example if you trade bitcoin for ethereum, you must pay taxes on any gains you made from that trade. Uh no you don't pay taxes unless a profit is realized. Your example doesn't make sense. Say you trade btc to eth for a profit but then the price of eth goes down and you are now at a loss. You don't pay taxes on the gains you could have made in the initial trade because those profits were never realized. If you sold the eth at the lower price for a loss you would now have a loss you could report. |
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I am still debating on the price of ICN when ICNX launches. Its a very exciting time.
Hard to call what will happen immediately after ICNX release imo. I'm not really worried about it though, bigger news will be when direct fiat funding is made available and when the OFM is released in full. All building up to what will hopefully eventually be substantial dividends for ICN holders. If that happens the sky is the limit. |
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Repost of qtum graphic/announcement
Lol okay what the heck this is exactly what I was talking about, who commits to this level of regimented fandom for a project they haven't even decided to invest in yet?
some people like this project.. some people dislike the project..
but always invest with you can afford to lose..
i am watching to make the decision..
waiting for the price details....then i will check if it deserve to invest or not.
Whaaat wait you don't even know if you will invest? The reposting of every announcement qtum makes and your display of constant unwavering support seem like kinda odd behavior for somebody just waiting and watching on the sidelines. I thought you were a member of the team based on your posting in here lol. |
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Escrow information? Without escrow, at least I dare not invest money, since one of your co-founder is dishonest person, AFAIK, Neil is not a professional poker player, more info? Why only invest in exchanges? You can't develop a crowdfunding website by yourself?
Don't forget the 49% premine. Even if I didn't believe some of the dirt on Dai and other team members, the coin distribution and the manner in which this ICO is being held (without escrow, only on Chinese exchanges, no source code provided yet) is worrisome enough for me. Also, maybe I missed it, but in the updated whitepaper I still don't see where it says what the PoS inflation rate will be which is definitely something that should be disclosed before people invest... 49% premine means they could forge 49% of the coins generated by PoS. +1, if you think this project is a scam or short term project, do not risk your money, better hold btc and wait for btc price going up to 2000$.
but i invested 20BTC into Eth, and i made about 20 times profit.. and i got 400BTC back. at highest price, Ethereum investors almost have 80 times profit.. Yeah I actually did invest in the Ethereum ICO and you can go back and check my history to find posts that corroborate that claim. Gtfo of here with your 3 month old account acting like you know about these things better than other people around here, and trying to compare this to Ethereum lol. Why don't you show us your real account MrJr member crypto veteran. let me tell you.. i invested into NXT coin. Let me tell you... you simply telling me something doesn't mean jack. Also the only relevent thing I am taking away from what you are saying, assuming you are telling the truth (which, to be clear, I would never bet anything on that assumption), is that you are admitting to being somebody that has been apart of this community for a long time but who is hiding behind a 3 month old account whose sole purpose appears to be showing unwavering support for qtum. I.e. you are admitting to being a sockpuppet which would also suggest you don't want your primary account/identity associated with your activity here. Your account was made soon after qtum threads opened, your first posts were made in qtum as are 99% of all subsequent ones (only a slight exaggeration)... So yeah, I think that all your bragging about supposed investments into ETH and NXT has done is make it even more undeniably likely that you are a shill for this project... |
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and trying to compare this to Ethereum
This has all the chances to go as big or even bigger! Btw where is glebby today, he took a day off? And why exactly does this "have all the chances to go as big or even bigger!"? Yeah the guy that, according to you, is paid to troll this thread spends considerably less time here than you- a person who claims they have no association with this preject other than a genuine interest in it that appears to have developed into a consuming obsession. I think glebby got banned or something! Seriously why do you think this can be as big and even bigger than ETH? What about this project will be revolutionary on the level that ETH was? ETH is the founding/pioneering member of a new class of tech and opened up an entirely new market in crypto. You think something built on top of/around Ethereum as an auxiliary tech is going to do better than Eth itself? I just don't see that happening, personally. Doesn't mean qtum can't still be a big success if it can deliver on what it promises. Also no offense but you also can't compare the eth team to the qtum team... ETH devs were well known and respected and considered geniuses within crypto community, the qtum devs are mostly unheard of except for things they probably wish people hadn't heard about them. I personally think Iconomi has a better chance of doing sonething similar to eth because they are also the founders/pioneers in a new area and their goal is to introduce old economy financial instruments to crypto and bring in outside capitol and investors. |
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