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381  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Eliminating the need to trust in the Bitcoin economy on: August 04, 2011, 03:38:35 AM
Well this is the rough draft of what I was thinking.

A wants to sell B a HD 5830 for 10 BTC

A and B join insurance association.

A must deposit 10% of value of any products sold before he can sell. This amount will be recouped if the transaction goes without a hitch.
A and B also pay an additional 1 1/2% of value each to the insurance association. The association takes 2% and put it into an account dedicated to claims payouts.
The 1% left is for operational costs.

The claims account will accumulate money to pay claims. At the end of each quarter, the total transaction value will be computed. Any monies in excess 1 1/2 times of the transaction value for the highest month will be refunded on a prorated basis to each participant.

Now the actual transaction will work like this.

The Bitcoin send will ALWAYS happen first.
If B experience a non-delivery or receives a damaged product and A doesn't fix it to B's satisfaction , the A's 10% reserve is released to B. B makes a claim on the insurance and receives the other 90%. A's reserve will go up 10% for every claim against them.
In the event B is the rip-off artist and making meritless claims, after 2 claims B must deposit 10% plus another 1 1/2% increment on top of the other 1 1/2%. Each additional claim will increase his deposit required for the next sale by 10% plus 1 1/2% consecutively.

Fraudsters will eventually be priced out.
If everything goes right A get's the 10% back and at the end of a quarter gets some of the 1 1/2% refunded. B get's security that he won;t experience a loss and will also recoup some of the 1 1/2 %

There are still several weaknesses that need to be addressed such as people creating multiple identities but that is the general drift of it.

Honest people will have no problems and will recoup money commensurate with the honesty of the association.




382  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Eliminating the need to trust in the Bitcoin economy on: August 04, 2011, 02:38:34 AM
The problem isn't bitcoin  being secure. The problem is whatever is being purchased with bitcoin isn't secure on the same level.

Sending and receiving bitcoin is certain as certain an be. 

We only need need to eliminate the uncertainty of of the product/service bargained for. Then there is no need for trust at all.

I'm thinking of a fractional reserve insurance association. Because bitcoin is so certain you only need to insure the risk of loss/damage of the non-bitcoin half of the bargain.

383  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Save your wallet on paper on: August 04, 2011, 02:25:40 AM
where do i find wallet.dat?

%appdata% directory in  windows OS
384  Economy / Speculation / Re: damn... just sold all my btc for 8.7 and now it's 9.5 on: August 04, 2011, 02:03:15 AM
The downward trend started at roughly 14.50. I think someone tried to corner the market. Now they are going to hold the coins going up to probably 20 before they sell. I'm thinking about 10 days from now it will be there.
385  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Open letter to online exchanges and wallets: use fractional reserve! on: August 03, 2011, 08:37:57 PM
Now that Mtgox has confessed to keep the coins offline (not necessarily a bad thing) what are you continuity of operations plans? What happens if you die or are jailed? How is someone going to restore those funds in the event you can't?

Unfortunately I cannot provide this kind of information without creating useless risks for the stored coins. As we grow we will create more ways of ensuring continuity on which we will be able to communicate openly.

i didn't really want details of what the plans are . I just want to make sure they exist. It would be very bad if only a few people had access and they all die in a plane crash or something.

As long as you can confirm there is a in fact a plan , that is good enough.
386  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: 8/2/11 Downturn / Speculation Thread on: August 03, 2011, 06:11:51 PM
to all the panic sellers... you're gonna be cryin' when it jumps back up just as fast.


^^^^ THIS


WTF do they  think all the buyers are going to do with their bitcoins. This isn't a zero sum game.

There is a sucker born every minute. This market is flushing out the leverage or people that don't have the funds to cushion a downturn.

Glad I'm neither of these.
387  Economy / Speculation / Re: R.I.P Bitcoin on: August 03, 2011, 06:05:33 PM
PRICES BACK TO WHAT THEY WERE 10 WEEKS AGO



RIP BITCOIN

OH NOES THE DOLLAR IS DEAD TOO!!!!!!


388  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Open letter to online exchanges and wallets: use fractional reserve! on: August 03, 2011, 04:36:24 PM
Now that Mtgox has confessed to keep the coins offline (not necessarily a bad thing) what are you continuity of operations plans? What happens if you die or are jailed? How is someone going to restore those funds in the event you can't?
389  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Are you willing to pay more taxes to pay down the national debt? on: August 03, 2011, 05:59:29 AM
There are no citizens in the US. You can only be a citizen by oath. Not many people have taken an oath of allegiance to the US. Even if they had there can be no allegiance to a body politic. Allegiances are only between men.
The US has tricked nearly the entire populace.

There is also the fact that the US has no duty to protect. That is the primary obligation of the sovereign to the subject. If there is no duty to protect there can be no duty of allegiance.
There is no reason to renounce anything.

If anyone desires it I can back all this up with court cases. it's not my opinion . It's there opinion.


I will cite a couple cases in regards to allegiance and citizenship . Calvin's Case aka Case of the Postnati decided by Lord Coke. It is still binding and cited in over 400 federal cases.
No one can force the political choice of citizenship on anyone. It is impressed upon people first via the silence of there father when they make out their child's birth certificate and then failing to disclaim it upon reaching the age of majority (14)

Quote
SUBMITTING REPORT ON THE SUBJECT OF CITIZENSHIP, EXPATRIATION, AND PROTECTION ABROAD. December 20, 1906

This is the universal maxim of the common law with regard to freemen,
as old as the common law, or even as the Roman civil law, and as well settled
as the rule partus sequitur ventrem. the one being a rule fixing the status of
freemen, the other being a rule defining the ownership of property ; the one
applicable to different political communities or states, whose citizens are in
the enjoyment of the civil rights possessed by people in a state of freedom,
the other defining the condition of the offspring which had been tainted by the
bondage of the mother.

No other rules than the ones above enumerated ever did prevail in this or
any other civilized country. In the case of Ludlam v. Ludlam (31 Barb.. 486)
the court says: "The universal maxim of the common law being partus
sequitur patrem, it is suflicient for the application of this doctrine that the
father should be a subject lawfully, and without breach of his allegiance
beyond sea, no matter what may be the condition of the mother."

The law of nations, which becomes, when applicable to an existing condition of affairs in a country, a part of the common law of that country, declares the same rule. Vattel, in his Law of Nations (p. 101), says: "As the society can not exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, these children naturally follow the condition of their fathers and succeed to their rights. * * * The country of the father is, therefore, that of the children, and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent." Again, on page 102, Vattel says : " By the law of nature alone, children follow the condition of their fathers and enter into all their rights.'' This law of nature, as far as it has become a part of the common law, in the absence of any postive enactment on the subject, must be the rule in this case.

Now Calvin's Case and allegiance to a legal fiction body politic.... Keep in mind the courts have held citizen is synonymous with subject and can be used interchangeably.

Quote
1. Ligeance is a true and faithful obedience of the subject due to his Sovereign. This ligeance and obedience is an incident inseparable to every subject; for as soon as he is born he oweth by birth right ligeance and obedience to his Sovereign...

But between the Sovereign and the subject there is without comparison a higher and greater connexion: for as the subject oweth to the King his true and faithful ligeance and obedience, so the Sovereign is to govern and protect his Subjects...

It is true, that the King hath two capacities in him: one a natural body, being descended of the blood royal of the Realm; and this body is of the creation of Almighty God, and is subject to death, infirmity, and such like; the other is a politic, body or capacity, so called, because it is framed by the policy of man...

... First, every subject (as it hath been affirmed by those that argued against the Plaintiff) is presumed by Law to be sworn to the King, which is to his natural person; and likewise the King is sworn to his subjects which oath he taketh in his natural person: for the politique capacity is invisible and immortal; nay, the politique body hath no soul, for it is framed by the policy of man...

4. A body politique (being invisible) can as a body politique neither make nor take homage: Vide 33 Hen. 8. tit. Fealty, Brook. 5. In fide, in faith or ligeance nothing ought to be feigned, but ought to be ex fide non ficta.

Read the last sentence again and again and again. You can not owe allegiance to a body politic.
390  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Death Criteria on: August 03, 2011, 03:38:20 AM
If you really think the economy is going to implode , you should be buying food , water and the means to produce food and water.
391  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: 8/2/11 Downturn / Speculation Thread on: August 03, 2011, 03:03:53 AM
I'm just saying it created a downward pressure. Psychology takes over other players. I also think Mtgox has been getting manipulated by bots for the past 3 weeks.  It wouldn't be that hard for a wanna be Hunt Brother to attempt to corner the market.
392  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Death Criteria on: August 03, 2011, 02:36:38 AM
^^^^^^^
THIS (except the transfer is safer than cash)


Now if we can make the counter-parties to bitcoin transactions nearly as safe shit will be boomin'.
393  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: How much money are you losing? on: August 03, 2011, 02:22:29 AM
Why is this happening?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpBP9dALcWw
394  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: 8/2/11 Downturn / Speculation Thread on: August 03, 2011, 01:03:06 AM
Why is no one considering that it's the beginning of the month and people have bills to pay. It isn't a stretch of logic that the people with the most bitcoins most likely also have the most overhead in mining them. A small $2 price difference to someone with 10K BTC is thousands of dollars.
395  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Are you willing to pay more taxes to pay down the national debt? on: August 03, 2011, 12:48:10 AM
It's not a theory it's the uniform commercial code.
UCC 3
§ 3-401.  SIGNATURE.

(a)  A person is not liable on an instrument unless (i) the person signed the instrument,


§ 3-604.  DISCHARGE BY CANCELLATION OR RENUNCIATION.
(a)  A person entitled to enforce an instrument, with or without consideration, may discharge the obligation of   a party to pay the instrument (i) by an intentional voluntary act, such as surrender of the instrument to the party, destruction, mutilation, or cancellation of the instrument, cancellation or striking out of the party's signature, or the addition of words to the instrument indicating discharge, or (ii) by agreeing not to sue or otherwise renouncing rights against the party   by a signed record.

This makes the cash a liability to you not an asset. Down the road someone could demand you redeem it for lawful money. Considering no one does it to the FED as prescribed by USC Title 12 section 411 I doubt anyone is going to show up at your house demanding specie coin.

You cannot make federal reserve issued, government owned and regulated dollar bills 'yours' just by signing them.

It's not making them "yours" it's accepting the liability to pay it.  Your under the delusion that a promise to pay is the same as payment. It's not.
USC 12:411
Quote
Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized.

The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

The fed is the "Maker" The US treasury is the "acceptor" as with any bill or note you can redeem it with any party that is liable on the instrument.
396  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Are you willing to pay more taxes to pay down the national debt? on: August 03, 2011, 12:44:31 AM
Oh ya , just in case you claim the UCC is not binding on the US gov't. http://www.uncitral.org/pdf/english/texts/payments/billsnotes/X_12_e.pdf is the relevant law which is exactly the same. In fact, the law has been the same for bills and notes since the 1600's

397  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Are you willing to pay more taxes to pay down the national debt? on: August 03, 2011, 12:32:47 AM
It's not a theory it's the uniform commercial code.
UCC 3
§ 3-401.  SIGNATURE.

(a)  A person is not liable on an instrument unless (i) the person signed the instrument,


§ 3-604.  DISCHARGE BY CANCELLATION OR RENUNCIATION.
(a)  A person entitled to enforce an instrument, with or without consideration, may discharge the obligation of   a party to pay the instrument (i) by an intentional voluntary act, such as surrender of the instrument to the party, destruction, mutilation, or cancellation of the instrument, cancellation or striking out of the party's signature, or the addition of words to the instrument indicating discharge, or (ii) by agreeing not to sue or otherwise renouncing rights against the party   by a signed record.

This makes the cash a liability to you not an asset. Down the road someone could demand you redeem it for lawful money. Considering no one does it to the FED as prescribed by USC Title 12 section 411 I doubt anyone is going to show up at your house demanding specie coin.
398  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Are you willing to pay more taxes to pay down the national debt? on: August 02, 2011, 11:22:59 PM
Wanna eliminate the national debt and simultaneously eliminate your income tax? Endorse your cash when you accept it and cancel the US Secretay of the Treasury's signature. Then it becomes a liability to you and releases the US.
399  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Selling 24 Bitcoins [PayPal, AlertPay or Liberty Reserve] on: August 02, 2011, 08:02:36 PM
Pic or it didn't happen.
Since You've just admitted that someone has been using your information. Do you know that the TOS for an internet forum excludes 13 years olds?
400  Economy / Speculation / Re: SELL EVERYTHING!!!!! on: August 02, 2011, 07:44:59 PM
I don't think this a difficult market move to figure out. It's the beginning of the month. Bills came in i.e. electricity. People need to pay them. I have the funds to wait out the bottom feeders. Hopefully smarter investors are taking possession. Flush out the panickers I say.


On a side note , I think MTGOX has been getting gamed for awhile. Have they reinstituted the  previous transaction fees yet?
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