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3821  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 22, 2017, 10:40:43 AM
So this time bitcoin core is trying to fork?

I you're talking about Segwit 2X then no.

Core has wanted Segwit for years. Now it's going to happen, but instead of people accepting Segwit (which they refused for years) they accepted Segwit2X = Segwit + 2MB blocks. The Segwit part is a tested piece of code (could still have bugs though), the 2X is untested, not made by Core.

- core nodes will not recognise segwit2x blocks, so these will not be added to the core chain. At the same time 2x has no replay protection, so transactions that occur on the 2x chain can be mirrored on the core chain. It's going to be a shitshow , in my personal opinion.

Depends on how much hashpower is left for core. If this is less than ten percent it might take for ever to try the replay attack...
3822  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Cash BCC might be a threat against the Nash Equilibrium on: August 22, 2017, 08:23:05 AM
Nice graphics to follow how the old legacy Nash Equilibrium is on the move:

http://fork.lol

Add some more player levels like 2nd layers or more forks and we will see more heavy fluctuations.

But this might be the case for the next years and we hope it does not cause too much harm to the entire Bitcoin ecosystem, mostly driven by good old legacy reputation.


Roots for this are mostly human based, since computers can do.
3823  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf blockgrösse on: August 22, 2017, 06:37:54 AM
Rechtliches gedöns hier:

http://www.presseanzeiger.de/pa/Kryptowaehrungen-und-die-damit-zusammenhaengenden-838564

Bitte mal die LN Hub Freunde zum Abklären (Kosten / Nutzen).... bin mir sicher, das ist klarer Bafin Fall!

Viel Spass
FUD für der üblichen Zweck:
"Das Crytpocurrency-Team von CLLB Rechtsanwälte unterstützt Sie bei allen rechtlichen Fragen zu den Themen Cryptocurrencies und Blockchain.
CLLB Rechtsanwälte verfolgt die weitere Entwicklung und berichtet weiter."

 Grin Bitcoin.de wäre auch so ein Unterstützer dieses bösen Bitcoin Handels, der unbedingt umfänglich von dieser Kanzlei beraten werden sollte  Grin

Bafin reguliert alle Zahlungsdienstleister. Bei strikter Auslegung fällt das alles darunter, insbesondere wird ja LN auch genauso beworben und dabei Geld verdient. Nee nix FUD.

Welche Kanzelei hier textet spielt dabei keine Rolle.
3824  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf blockgrösse on: August 21, 2017, 11:21:41 PM
Rechtliches gedöns hier:

http://www.presseanzeiger.de/pa/Kryptowaehrungen-und-die-damit-zusammenhaengenden-838564

Bitte mal die LN Hub Freunde zum Abklären (Kosten / Nutzen).... bin mir sicher, das ist klarer Bafin Fall!

Viel Spass
3825  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: August 21, 2017, 10:57:18 PM
Für mich eher Panikmache/FUD.
BCH hat meines Erachtens keine tatsächlichen Vorteile gegenüber BTC, und es gibt andere Altcoins die auch besser aufgestellt sind.

Das ist keine Frage von "Panik" oder von "tatsächlichen Vorteilen", sondern von schlichter (protokolltechnischer) Realität und (ökonomischer) Rationalität


eben, bin gespannt wie es bei der nächsten Anpassung der diff wird (ca 2 Tage), momentan werden ca 30 (leere)Blocks in der Stunde gefunden, vermutlich ist dann BTC wieder profitabler und die Miner werden wieder zu BTC wechslen...
anscheinend hat Viabtc schon ne art Automatismus in ihren pools wo automatisch auf die Profitablere chain gemined wird.
Ein Drama welches nur durch das Pump und dump gefördert wird, allerdings kann nicht ewig gepumpt werden

Die Fluktuation in der Hashrate ist schon beachtlich. Der BTC Preis recht stabil. Wann muss man hier mit Korrelation rechnen?

Und noch rechtliche Infos für die Profis:
Frage: Was bedeuted dies für die Freunde von z.B. LN Hubs?

http://www.presseanzeiger.de/pa/Kryptowaehrungen-und-die-damit-zusammenhaengenden-838564
3826  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: next bitcoin fork in Nov? on: August 21, 2017, 05:53:30 PM
Looks like also ShapeShift supports the 2x.
3827  Economy / Exchanges / Re: BitPay stands for many 1000 of shops. They are economic relevant users! on: August 21, 2017, 03:57:14 PM
Here we could listen to CEO of ShapeShift

https://youtu.be/lFfTFQrQR5A

NYA will come...
3828  Economy / Exchanges / Re: BitPay stands for many 1000 of shops. They are economic relevant users! on: August 21, 2017, 07:02:27 AM
Alts taking over? A symbiotic relationship with alts has always been and always will be fine to me, use dash or litecoin for your pint and burger use Bitcoin to pay interest on a loan from a Chinese investor.

I also fancy such symbiotic relationship between Bitcoin and the Altcoins but it seems these Alts are totally dependent on Bitcoin and so if Bitcoin is falling in value they also fall in value and vice versa. This makes it difficult for us to diversify our funds since they are all likely to follow a particular graph curve.

And to use such alt shit you always have to do txs to exchanges and / or pay comissions.

This is no solution.

Bitcoin CAN do. It was about to remove middle men.  If not, cryptoworld is dead in some years.

Nobrainer is lift the blocksize ( make it a user param, not a consensus / protocol magic number) , let the markets find out where the real market/tech limit is, free as Bitcoin should be.
3829  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: August 20, 2017, 04:50:42 PM
Wieder Wimpelphase.

Dann kommt hoffentlich bald McAffe Pimpelphase

 Grin

Also ich will den Pimmel nicht sehen  Grin

Dann schau halt nur auf die 500.000

Doller!
3830  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: August 20, 2017, 01:56:59 PM
Wieder Wimpelphase.

Dann kommt hoffentlich bald McAffe Pimpelphase

 Grin
3831  Economy / Exchanges / Re: BitPay stands for many 1000 of shops. They are economic relevant users! on: August 20, 2017, 11:04:32 AM
Bitpay has absolutely no right to speak for anybody except themselves!

BitPay are speaking for themselves, despite the obvious fact that certain egos within this community wish they couldn't and will do everything in their power to silence opposing views, all whilst they exert their decidedly narrow views on everyone.  If anything, it's bitcoin.org that like to pretend they speak for everyone (while not letting them speak and removing BitPay/CoPay from their website, along with anything else the egomaniacs who run the site personally disagree with).  The hypocrisy about "speaking for" people is beyond staggering here, especially on this forum.  Clearly neutrality and impartiality are all but dead in this conflict.  All I see now are a bunch of rabid fanboys flailing at each other like they have special needs.  It's just sad.

Personally, I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the spectacle as impartially as possible, whilst occasionally (actually, that's a lie, frequently) passing disparaging comments about how pathetic most of the people involved are in trying to feebly dictate a narrative they clearly have no control over.  Consensus will decide and you're all idiots for pretending otherwise.  No amount of suppression, restriction, concealment or interdiction will change this.  Fight it as much as you want, because authoritarianism is weak and pitiful in a permissionless environment.  These paltry amateur dramatics are pretty much irrelevant.  It all rides on numbers now and that's all that matters.

Whoever "wins", (most of) you all still suck.  History will forever judge this period in time as one of childish, infantile bickering and little else.  One way or another, there will be a longest chain with the most proof of work and anyone with any sense will be following it.

It really looks like some group wanna undo, revoke, revert 8 successful years of bitcoin bootstrapping across all levels of society and user levels. For what benefit? Serving egos? power?

Bitcoin has just grown too big for single (group) minds and this is good.

The process of diversifying was seen too long in the alts section - not good - but with diversifying into different dev groups, clients on bitcoin this should stop soon, I hope !

We need more merchants to take over and claim their user rights, I wd feel much better with this as having ranting rasp pi users in the driver seats - unstability and bad reputation programmed!
3832  Economy / Exchanges / Re: BitPay stands for many 1000 of shops. They are economic relevant users! on: August 20, 2017, 08:43:24 AM
BitPay should be noticed when they have a say what 'users' want.
They stand for voice of a huge merchant community watching the usability and risks of bitcoin's protocol.

If they 'say' it will influence many other merchants accepting or thinking of bitcoin.

Their business suffers from too high fees and LN or other 2nd layer scalings are yet no or no quick, safe options.

What do you users really want? Alts taking over here?

Bitpay has absolutely no right to speak for anybody except themselves!
Merchants can chosse other payment processors of they want, Bitpay is not the only one out there.
These guys have lost a lot of credibility in the industry since they are just another echo chamber and paid shills by Jihan.
I expect them to close their doors in a few years and new implementations in BTC will make their business model obsolete.

Quite interesting that some single guy is now responsible for    ...  what?

Some of us have too easy denking...
3833  Economy / Exchanges / BitPay stands for many 1000 of shops. They are economic relevant users! on: August 20, 2017, 07:23:19 AM
BitPay should be noticed when they have a say what 'users' want.
They stand for voice of a huge merchant community watching the usability and risks of bitcoin's protocol.

If they 'say' it will influence many other merchants accepting or thinking of bitcoin.

Their business suffers from too high fees and LN or other 2nd layer scalings are yet no or no quick, safe options.

What do you users really want? Alts taking over here?
3834  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Post your SegWit questions here - open discussion - big week for Bitcoin! on: August 19, 2017, 04:15:55 PM
Why is there such a drama about the 2x what was mentioned many year ago, agreed in some tables and seen on roadmaps for long time now?

Why is there people out there risking so much for 'no big deal' thingy?

Is it still the HF fear?

Could we get some 'math' based explanation despite fishy undefined fears?

What is spam
What is enough decentralization
What is security from decentralization
What dynamics we are in and how can we model the future
What is consensus
Why not HF if enough nodes signal upgrade
How is best way to have most on board in future
How is best way getting things done risk free for business with big skin in the game
How get the reputation up for growth

.??

Sure forums looks not the best place but....
3835  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: August 19, 2017, 12:18:15 PM

Wenn Bitcoin nicht alle sicheren Skalierungsoptionen ausschöpft, kann es schlecht global werden.

Einen Altcoin als Skalierungsoption für Bitcoin zu bezeichnen. Ist das nicht etwas gewagt?

Bitcoin Cash zeigt dass es geht. Die Masse sieht es.

Der Kaiser hat nichts an.

Altcoins sind ( für mich ) Splielwiese zum Experimentieren und Zocken.

Was funzt muss ins grosse Bitcoin.
3836  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: August 19, 2017, 11:38:56 AM
so lange man nicht bei Edeka mit btc bezahlen kann, ist es besser wie nix.

Bei Edeka kann man schon seit Jahren mit Bitcoin Bezahlen Wink

https://www.edeka-lebensmittel.de/webshop/zahlungsarten/
Ok ok, ich habe da wohl was vergessen. Nein, im normalen Laden kann man leider noch nicht mit bitcoin und Co. bezahlen. Und ich denke solange wie sich unsere Gesellschaft sich noch im Entwicklungsland des Internets sieht, wird in der Richtung noch lange Nachholbedarf herrschen. Ein paar mutige Lokale und Geschäfte gibt es ja bereits, aber diese Möglichkeiten werden kaum benutzt.

Wie auch, bei den hohen fees ?

Bitcoin wird erst das globale Geld werden können, wenn alle Skalierungsoptionen frei nutzbar sind, insbesondere on-chain. Edeka und co müssen ebengleich auch sich auf ein möglichst einfaches basis protokoll verlassen können (smtp ähnlich) da sind wir noch lange nicht..  

Korea kauft wie wild Bitcoin ( Cash ) , warum?

Samsung baut mit die besten Chips auf der Erde ( auch miner ASICs)... Samsung Pay is murx gegen Apple Pay... kommt das was?


Ja genau, sehr sinnvoll alle cent Transkaktionen für alle Ewigkeit von tausenden Netzwerkknoten speichern zu lassen.  Roll Eyes

Samsung produziert miner ASCIs??? Woher nimmst du diese Information?


Warum bist du eigentlich nicht im BCash Forum unterwegs wenn du die on-chain ''Skalierungslösung'' bevorzugst?
 

Warum gibt es bitcoin überhaupt?

Wer soll denn nutzen? Und wie?

Wer es in einen Bitcoinblock schafft hat das auch das Recht dazu.

Samsung ist fast Monopolist im Chipdesign (z B 14nm). mainstream info gibts zB über Chris DeRose.

bcash ist noch nicht am Markt und interessiert hier nicht

Mich interssiert nur Bitcoin und der globale Nutzen ohne dies in Nutzer-Gruppen zu spalten und 'religiös' abzusondern.

Wenn Bitcoin nicht alle sicheren Skalierungsoptionen ausschöpft, kann es schlecht global werden.
3837  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: August 19, 2017, 09:38:32 AM
so lange man nicht bei Edeka mit btc bezahlen kann, ist es besser wie nix.

Bei Edeka kann man schon seit Jahren mit Bitcoin Bezahlen Wink

https://www.edeka-lebensmittel.de/webshop/zahlungsarten/
Ok ok, ich habe da wohl was vergessen. Nein, im normalen Laden kann man leider noch nicht mit bitcoin und Co. bezahlen. Und ich denke solange wie sich unsere Gesellschaft sich noch im Entwicklungsland des Internets sieht, wird in der Richtung noch lange Nachholbedarf herrschen. Ein paar mutige Lokale und Geschäfte gibt es ja bereits, aber diese Möglichkeiten werden kaum benutzt.

Wie auch, bei den hohen fees ?

Bitcoin wird erst das globale Geld werden können, wenn alle Skalierungsoptionen frei nutzbar sind, insbesondere on-chain. Edeka und co müssen ebengleich auch sich auf ein möglichst einfaches basis protokoll verlassen können (smtp ähnlich) da sind wir noch lange nicht..  

Korea kauft wie wild Bitcoin ( Cash ) , warum?

Samsung baut mit die besten Chips auf der Erde ( auch miner ASICs)... Samsung Pay is murx gegen Apple Pay... kommt das was?
3838  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 19, 2017, 09:26:04 AM
goddamned useless BCH - these fuckers will attempt anything to destroy bitcoin.

How can you destroy bitcoin ( with bitcoin )?

Small blocks, small brains?

 Grin
3839  Local / Altcoins (Deutsch) / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf - Fork wegen Bitcoin Cash on: August 19, 2017, 07:10:51 AM
Kommt über 50% des Volumen aus Korea?

Kore oder Korea, das ist hier keine Frage

 Grin
3840  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 19, 2017, 07:01:12 AM
I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".


That "just" is pretty important.

Bitcoin is going to ~4mb per block (indirect max capacity since the data are stored in a 1+3 manner) once Segwit activates, plus LN on top of that. It's not like 8 vs 1. It's 8 vs 4(+LN).

Ethereum was made after BTC. It has fast blocks (issued in seconds). Their devs know about scaling issues, etc etc, yet their network is literally stuck when an ICO happens. Exchanges are shutting down ETH transactions (!) due to load. What's their proposed solution? Bigger blocks? No, they have accumulated too much bloat and it didn't even solve anything, so LN-type extensions it is ("Plasma") to help with computational and storage scaling.

Quote
...
Incredibly high amount of transactions can be committed on this Plasma chain with
minimal data hitting the root blockchain. Any participant can transfer funds to anyone,
including transfers to participants not in the existing set of participants. These transfers
can pay into and withdraw (with some time delay and proofs) funds in the root blockchain’s
native coin(s)/token(s).
...

http://plasma.io/plasma.pdf



No risk avers business will follow this concept, where there is proof now that easy peasy on chain scaling works and there is no logic to friggle some crap around bitcoin to give room for higher risk solutions.

Bitcoin (and all that already high energy usage) on chain should be used up to its limits first and than off chain solutions have time to prove safety over same period of time bitcoin did.

If your elevator has an expanding door you will also first ask for that key, before you send your furniture up the stairs , sure opening this back door is a HF, but worth doing it.

You just force low fee spenders into crap.
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