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Question: When will bitcoin reach the top of this bull market (i.e. when will it moon)?
Topped at $13,880 in June - 8 (5.8%)
H2 2019 - 15 (10.9%)
H1 2020 - 26 (18.8%)
H2 2020 - 26 (18.8%)
H1 2021 - 11 (8%)
H2 2021 - 27 (19.6%)
H1 2022 - 6 (4.3%)
H2 2022 - 4 (2.9%)
H1 2023 - 0 (0%)
H2 2023 - 2 (1.4%)
2024 or Later - 13 (9.4%)
Total Voters: 138

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21285493 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (102 posts by 19 users deleted.)
notme
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August 19, 2017, 06:38:40 AM

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

It doesn't include it at all. He forked-off prior to Segwit activation so there are no Segwit transactions in BCH.

Why on earth BCChina support Segwit or god forbid LN? Think people are missing the whole point of this fork. Miners don't make money on LN transaction = miners don't support LN 

Miners don't make money either if fees are very low... Oh, now that I think about it.... Are those calculations about profitability of BCH vs BTC include tx's fees per block? Don't think so....

Think long term global scale. This is just an attempt at a power grab 8MB blocks will be full too. Miners only make money on on-chain txs.

It's way easier to spam blocks when they are already filled by 80-90% legit tx's. They will have a hard time doing the same with 8MB blocks, plus the main argument of BCH is that they will keep upgrading block size way before they are filled. So, basically, less total fees earned no matter what.

It has always been a falacy that it is the miners interest to have bigger blocks. It isn't. But everybody is lieing anyways.
It is, however, in the interest of bitcoin as a whole. Bigger blocks means more people can use it means higher price, and of course wider ability to actually pay with bitcoins in shops and such. And who knows, maybe the extra volume will make it profitable for miners too.

People don't understand supply and demand curves. They think that reducing supply (i.e. raising price) is the only way to increase profitability.  Increasing demand by lowering price is how big companies do it.
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August 19, 2017, 06:41:47 AM

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

It doesn't include it at all. He forked-off prior to Segwit activation so there are no Segwit transactions in BCH.

Why on earth BCChina support Segwit or god forbid LN? Think people are missing the whole point of this fork. Miners don't make money on LN transaction = miners don't support LN 

Miners don't make money either if fees are very low... Oh, now that I think about it.... Are those calculations about profitability of BCH vs BTC include tx's fees per block? Don't think so....

Think long term global scale. This is just an attempt at a power grab 8MB blocks will be full too. Miners only make money on on-chain txs.

It's way easier to spam blocks when they are already filled by 80-90% legit tx's. They will have a hard time doing the same with 8MB blocks, plus the main argument of BCH is that they will keep upgrading block size way before they are filled. So, basically, less total fees earned no matter what.

It has always been a falacy that it is the miners interest to have bigger blocks. It isn't. But everybody is lieing anyways.
It is, however, in the interest of bitcoin as a whole. Bigger blocks means more people can use it means higher price, and of course wider ability to actually pay with bitcoins in shops and such. And who knows, maybe the extra volume will make it profitable for miners too.

I am not against a small block size increase.... but for the usage as payment network with mass adoption, linear block size increases won't do it, you will need LN for that.
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August 19, 2017, 06:58:02 AM

Looks like wave 2 is incoming, BCChina is going full retard while BTC staying above $4k. This weekend should be interesting, gotta grab some popcorn
It's clearly an orchestrated pump if you take a look when it started and how it is moving. You've got to be out of your right mind to actually want BCH. I don't like the price of Bitcoin at the moment.

Segwit2x is not BCH. It's not "free coins" in a parallel chain. Things are gonna get ugly if they decide to proceed.
Correct. It is going to become a big mess since Garzik, who is a very mallicious individual nowadays refused to add replay protection (you've read that right, btc1 has no replay protection).

After all if you can control the "good news" and "bad news" of a market, then you can benefit financially.
Indeed.
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August 19, 2017, 07:01:12 AM

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".


That "just" is pretty important.

Bitcoin is going to ~4mb per block (indirect max capacity since the data are stored in a 1+3 manner) once Segwit activates, plus LN on top of that. It's not like 8 vs 1. It's 8 vs 4(+LN).

Ethereum was made after BTC. It has fast blocks (issued in seconds). Their devs know about scaling issues, etc etc, yet their network is literally stuck when an ICO happens. Exchanges are shutting down ETH transactions (!) due to load. What's their proposed solution? Bigger blocks? No, they have accumulated too much bloat and it didn't even solve anything, so LN-type extensions it is ("Plasma") to help with computational and storage scaling.

Quote
...
Incredibly high amount of transactions can be committed on this Plasma chain with
minimal data hitting the root blockchain. Any participant can transfer funds to anyone,
including transfers to participants not in the existing set of participants. These transfers
can pay into and withdraw (with some time delay and proofs) funds in the root blockchain’s
native coin(s)/token(s).
...

http://plasma.io/plasma.pdf



No risk avers business will follow this concept, where there is proof now that easy peasy on chain scaling works and there is no logic to friggle some crap around bitcoin to give room for higher risk solutions.

Bitcoin (and all that already high energy usage) on chain should be used up to its limits first and than off chain solutions have time to prove safety over same period of time bitcoin did.

If your elevator has an expanding door you will also first ask for that key, before you send your furniture up the stairs , sure opening this back door is a HF, but worth doing it.

You just force low fee spenders into crap.
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August 19, 2017, 07:11:37 AM

No risk avers business will follow this concept, where there is proof now that easy peasy on chain scaling works and there is no logic to friggle some crap around bitcoin to give room for higher risk solutions.

Bitcoin (and all that already high energy usage) on chain should be used up to its limits first and than off chain solutions have time to prove safety over same period of time bitcoin did.

The only unexplored limit I can think of right now, is some stuff I've read about compressed blocks, which is essentially a system of different representation of the data in terms of network transmission and data storage, which might reduce block size by around 30%. It's like a custom compression scheme tailored for bitcoin, instead of relying in a compression library that might have vulnerabilities.

It's clearly an orchestrated pump if you take a look when it started and how it is moving. You've got to be out of your right mind to actually want BCH. I don't like the price of Bitcoin at the moment.

I would call it "orchestrated accumulation of coins". The accumulator is even leaving the market to dip so he can get the order books to his liking before proceeding to buy. I don't know who he is / who they are, but they do have pretty deep pockets Tongue
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August 19, 2017, 07:11:53 AM

FULL on-chain "scaling" is absolutely ridiculous. What's next? enable micropayments also on-chain? TX's of less than 1cent being replicated over thousands of full nodes and stored for centuries?

Ridiculous.
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August 19, 2017, 07:41:54 AM

FULL on-chain "scaling" is absolutely ridiculous. What's next? enable micropayments also on-chain? TX's of less than 1cent being replicated over thousands of full nodes and stored for centuries?

Ridiculous.
One of the primary points of bitcoin is that anyone can send any amount they want to anyone they want with no busybody middlemen deciding what constitutes a proper and legal transfer.

Someone wants to pay a fee to send dust, that's his business and working as intended.

That's what people seem to keep forgetting. It's not free.
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August 19, 2017, 07:43:12 AM

Kraken down  Undecided
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August 19, 2017, 07:46:14 AM

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

Would make sense as Wu would not want to expose his AsicBoost usage once SegWit gets activated. Much easier to just create a whole separate chain where he can continue to use it to mine blocks at an advantage.

No BCH doesn't have SegWit. And that was done on purpose, because of Asciboost as you already have mentioned.
And yes Jihan can mine blocks at an advantage with that. And he can mine it alone, for himself. Although Bcash difficulty has reduced much and it may be more profitable to mine it, at least for some whort while, I really doubt that many miners will switch over. Therefore Bcash will remain extremely centralized. In terms of mining, protocol development, mostly in everything.
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August 19, 2017, 07:47:19 AM

FULL on-chain "scaling" is absolutely ridiculous. What's next? enable micropayments also on-chain? TX's of less than 1cent being replicated over thousands of full nodes and stored for centuries?

Ridiculous.
One of the primary points of bitcoin is that anyone can send any amount they want to anyone they want with no busybody middlemen deciding what constitutes a proper and legal transfer.

Someone wants to pay a fee to send dust, that's his business and working as intended.

That's what people seem to keep forgetting. It's not free.

Well Satoshi didn't say "we'll include your dust as long as you pay for it"... more like fuck dust txs...

Bitcoin isn't currently practical for very small micropayments.  Not for things like pay per search or per page view without an aggregating mechanism, not things needing to pay less than 0.01.  The dust spam limit is a first try at intentionally trying to prevent overly small micropayments like that.

Bitcoin is practical for smaller transactions than are practical with existing payment methods.  Small enough to include what you might call the top of the micropayment range.  But it doesn't claim to be practical for arbitrarily small micropayments.

You'll also note he talks about an AGGREGATING MECHANISM... Wink
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August 19, 2017, 08:05:53 AM

What a sidewings on the charts Damn  Shocked Shocked

Can someone explain Whats going on?
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August 19, 2017, 08:08:31 AM

What a sidewings on the charts Damn  Shocked Shocked

Can someone explain Whats going on?

Kraken has gone full retard again. I would say the house is banking big time playing some sort of margin call ping pong.

I better hope that at least all my limit orders on both sides have been correctly executed when the interface comes back.
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August 19, 2017, 08:15:04 AM

What a sidewings on the charts Damn  Shocked Shocked

Can someone explain Whats going on?

Weekend pump delayed while Ver and Wu dump their coins for yet another alt coin they're investing in.
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August 19, 2017, 08:17:09 AM

If bitcoin and bcash reach parity I will sell both and wait.

I'll hold both and wait.
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August 19, 2017, 08:53:56 AM

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/kraken/btceur

And exactly for this is why you guys should always leave a bunch of conditional limit orders on Kraken. That way the house isn't the only one banking on their own mess. Not sure if they do it intentionally or not though.
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August 19, 2017, 09:08:39 AM

What a sidewings on the charts Damn  Shocked Shocked

Can someone explain Whats going on?

Kraken has gone full retard again. I would say the house is banking big time playing some sort of margin call ping pong.

I better hope that at least all my limit orders on both sides have been correctly executed when the interface comes back.

Few days ago I lost thousands of € of easy profit because kraken didn't execute my orders showing this error:

Quote
"Your order may have failed. Please refresh the page and check your orders. Contact support if necessary."

In this moment if I try to login I can see only this:
Quote
404
Page Not Found

I think it's time to sign up to an another exchange ... do you have any suggestion for an exchange that works fine?
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August 19, 2017, 09:11:32 AM

goddamned useless BCH - these fuckers will attempt anything to destroy bitcoin.
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August 19, 2017, 09:12:23 AM

What a sidewings on the charts Damn  Shocked Shocked

Can someone explain Whats going on?

Kraken has gone full retard again. I would say the house is banking big time playing some sort of margin call ping pong.

I better hope that at least all my limit orders on both sides have been correctly executed when the interface comes back.

Few days ago I lost thousands of € of easy profit because kraken didn't execute my orders showing this error:

Quote
"Your order may have failed. Please refresh the page and check your orders. Contact support if necessary."

In this moment if I try to login I can see only this:
Quote
404
Page Not Found

I think it's time to sign up to an another exchange ... do you have any suggestion for an exchange that works fine?

Bitstamp.
Lauda
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August 19, 2017, 09:26:01 AM

I would call it "orchestrated accumulation of coins". The accumulator is even leaving the market to dip so he can get the order books to his liking before proceeding to buy. I don't know who he is / who they are, but they do have pretty deep pockets Tongue
Isn't it obvious that it is Roger Ver and his buddies manipulating the market? South Korea anyone? Cheesy

FULL on-chain "scaling" is absolutely ridiculous. What's next? enable micropayments also on-chain? TX's of less than 1cent being replicated over thousands of full nodes and stored for centuries? Ridiculous.
Which shows just how stupid the people in support of that actually are.

I'll hold both and wait.
You will be left holding bags. Dump in time. Wink
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August 19, 2017, 09:26:04 AM

goddamned useless BCH - these fuckers will attempt anything to destroy bitcoin.

How can you destroy bitcoin ( with bitcoin )?

Small blocks, small brains?

 Grin
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