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3961  Other / Off-topic / Re: The story of Bold Funding. on: August 31, 2011, 07:17:54 PM


There was a saying in ancient Greece, "E pluribus unum", which means, "Let the buyer beware".

I think you mean "Caveat emptor".  "E pluribus unum" means "from many, one".
3962  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: August 31, 2011, 05:51:06 PM
...
The FBI writes:

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country [ie. unconstitutional Federal Reserve notes] are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence [ie. they are voluntary systems with no victim], they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country [ie. their widespread adoption may collapse the corrupt banking system],” she added. “We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.” [ie. we will engage in acts of domestic terrorism to prevent the voluntary trade of private property.]


I find the last part extremely hilarious, "legitimacy of our democratic form of government.”

Yeh, very democratic of you. Someone should really explain to the American government what democratic means.

It's newspeak.  They know what it means, they also know what most readers believe it means.
3963  Other / Off-topic / Concerning the transportation of bitcoin funded goods... on: August 30, 2011, 01:27:12 AM
...all that this system lacks is a secure distance payments system.  A hub and spoke network of goods movement.  Similar to UPS but with much smaller vehicles, tighter spokes and cargo UAV's instead of massive cargo aircraft piloted by pairs of trained humans earning $100K+ per year.

http://matternet.net/

They even intend for it's primary use to be the distribution of high value goods, such as medicines.

Just wait until the SilkRoad get's in on this one.
3964  Other / Politics & Society / Re: I've contemplated why man has created government... on: August 29, 2011, 01:40:47 PM
Religion has next to nothing to do with it.  The term that you are looking for is belief.  Specificly a belief that the unknown constitutes a threat.  In the age of city-states and before, that unknown was the intent and abilities of differing cultures beyond the line of sight of the city tower.  Governments formed for the collective defense of small communities, thus appointing the most able among themselves to direct such a collective defense against threats both real and imagined.  Over generations, however, the families who abandoned yeomanship in favor of professional security became a warrior class; distinct from the community they were intended to protect.  After this point, the lack of identity with the community at large would create a situation wherein the ambitions of those in the warrior class (during periods of particular peace and stability) led to the creation of a political class in command of the warrior class.  And thus the betrayal of the common citizenry was complete.  Essentially, all governments are up-sized protection rackets.  The modern pretense of civil control is simply a matter of progression.
3965  Economy / Marketplace / Re: List of honest traders. on: August 29, 2011, 01:29:25 PM
+1 Yuusha

Small loan repaid on time and in full.
3966  Economy / Lending / Re: Need a small loan on: August 29, 2011, 01:27:41 PM
Loan repaid in full.  Thanks!
3967  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Personal Responsibility on: August 28, 2011, 12:30:47 AM
strict internalism = invalid


argumentless opinion = meritless noise
3968  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Personal Responsibility on: August 27, 2011, 03:50:06 PM
Fortunately for me, that isn't an argument that I made.  I can't even see how you came to the conclusion above by distortions of what I said, unless you just didn't bother to read them and just jumped in.  I would agree that all humans are equal under the law, but certainly not identical.  Again, it's not relevant that one person can be more influenced than another.  It's a prerequisite of an adult that s/he be able to rationally control their own deviant tendencies regardless of whether those tendencies are the result of nature or nurture.

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If you ate lead paint as a child, and then go out a do crazy things as an adult, is that cause and effect?  Clearly it is not ...

That's what I took issue with. It can absolutely be cause and effect for one person but not for another.
Are you responsible for your own actions? Yes.
Can blame for bad actions be shared with an enabler of those actions? Absolutely.

Another may be responsible for letting you eat lead paint as a child, but then they are primarily responsible to you, not for you.  It is not, in any capacity, the liability of society and civilization at large for your heavy metal poisoning or it's associated effects.  If society wishes to take such into consideration in the collective punishment (normally called 'justice' although it tends to be far from that) imposed upon you for your actions, society can choose to do that.  However, that in no way implies that society is at fault for your condition, nor responsible in any way for your actions.  The primary goal of modern justice systems isn't either restitution of the wronged nor even punishment of the wrongdoer.  The primary goal is to limit the liberties (both in time and scope) of the wrongdoer in order to limit the further harm to society in general that the wrongdoer can commit.  If it benefits society to commit resources to 'reform' the wrongdoer so that said wrongdoer can be released and support himself, that will happen to the greatest extent that it's actually possible.  If it's not possible, and particularly if the wrongdoer is of particular risk to the public (such as a serial murderer) then reform is dropped in favor of simply indefinite incarceration.  If someone (successfully) uses the mental incapacity defense to evade a conviction, the justice system still commits them to the care and incarceration of a state mental hospital; because anyone who has a history of causing harm and lacks the capacity of self-regulation, they are even a greater threat to society at large than the career criminal.  The nutter cannot be reformed, but the mobster commits crimes due to the pursuit of profit and the belief in his own capacity of evading the police.  If he can be convinced that the profit doesn't justify the risks, the mobster can be reformed.
3969  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Personal Responsibility on: August 27, 2011, 01:36:15 PM
No, he is saying that outside influences have no bearing on the morality of the choices, and thus little to no bearing on the type of response from society's justice systems.  Having a mental dysfunction is already a consideration in the modern concept of justice and morality, it's just not an excuse.  If you ate lead paint as a child, and then go out a do crazy things as an adult, is that cause and effect?  Clearly it is not, considering the large number of people who were also exposed to lead as children who did not grow up to be clockwork orange characters.  And the excuse about the kind of family one is born into is just as faulty, for all of the upstanding and generally successful people who came from broken, criminal and dysfunctional family influences.

No matter what kind of devil made you do it, you are still responsible for the consequences of your actions.  That is the very definition of adulthood.

So all humans are created identical and there's no way that a certain thing can influence a person more than another?
While I agree in principle, it's still argumentation I would expect from a person with a very black and white view of the world. A young, and/or very naive person.

Fortunately for me, that isn't an argument that I made.  I can't even see how you came to the conclusion above by distortions of what I said, unless you just didn't bother to read them and just jumped in.  I would agree that all humans are equal under the law, but certainly not identical.  Again, it's not relevant that one person can be more influenced than another.  It's a prerequisite of an adult that s/he be able to rationally control their own deviant tendencies regardless of whether those tendencies are the result of nature or nurture.
3970  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bypassing the blockchain on: August 27, 2011, 01:31:16 PM
When walmart is mining we have far bigger troubles to worry about...

Such as?
3971  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Personal Responsibility on: August 26, 2011, 11:44:41 PM
If you are an advocate of personal responsibility why are you using bitcoin? It relies on everyone working together and trusting eachother to do so in order to function, almost the exact opposite of personal responsibility.

I do not have to trust you at all.  I think you don't understand bitcoin.
3972  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Personal Responsibility on: August 26, 2011, 11:41:09 PM
How exactly does that make you no longer responsible for your actions? Are you saying that if you're born into a poor family then you have no choice but to murder, rape and steal? What is your point?
Are you saying that outside influence have no impact on the choices that a person does?

No, he is saying that outside influences have no bearing on the morality of the choices, and thus little to no bearing on the type of response from society's justice systems.  Having a mental dysfunction is already a consideration in the modern concept of justice and morality, it's just not an excuse.  If you ate lead paint as a child, and then go out a do crazy things as an adult, is that cause and effect?  Clearly it is not, considering the large number of people who were also exposed to lead as children who did not grow up to be clockwork orange characters.  And the excuse about the kind of family one is born into is just as faulty, for all of the upstanding and generally successful people who came from broken, criminal and dysfunctional family influences.

No matter what kind of devil made you do it, you are still responsible for the consequences of your actions.  That is the very definition of adulthood.
3973  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bypassing the blockchain on: August 26, 2011, 10:30:03 PM
Configure computer B to add a transaction from the address in computer A, but not broadcast to the network
Once computer B mines a block, withhold the block and broadcast transaction
Release the block and put Computer B back to normal solo mining
The coins are now in a block subsidy
You don't actually have to broadcast the transaction at all - the block is still valid even if the transaction was never broadcast. In fact you don't want to broadcast it because that significantly increases the risk of something going wrong and you losing your bitcoins. Doesn't stop malicious attacks though.

Also: this scheme will stand out like a sore thumb to everyone watching Block Explorer and probably get mentioned on IRC.

Some variation of this 'scheme' is inevitable.  When Wal-Mart is mining, they might reject fee paying transactions from known Target addresses; and withhold some of their own transactions to be included only in self generated blocks.  If Wal-Mart (or other large, international corporation) were to consolidate all of the small transactions they produce in a given day (that can be delayed) into a single, self-generated block, they might stand to save a fortune in fees.  This assumes that Wal-Mart has enough miners to reliablely generate at least one block each day (or week, month, whatever).  Once this is commonplace, it will become very difficult indeed to discern this kind of delayed transaction processing for economic reasons from delayed transaction processing for anonimity reasons.
3974  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bypassing the blockchain on: August 24, 2011, 05:42:29 PM
Like the topic says. How can I make a transaction which will not appear in the blockchain?


If you are using a client on your computer, you can't.

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I'm not caring about the security of the P2P validation, because I want to send my Bitcoins to another one of my addresses; even in the same wallet.


This would have to hit the blockchain at some point, even if it's only 6 confirmations before you use it.  Of course, that would be pointless.

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The reason for this is simple: I don't want others to know who sent me my coins.


Don't tell anyone.

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Everybody suggests to use a new address for each transaction to make it a bit more anonymous. Now let's assume I got 100 incoming transactions from different people, 0.01Btc each. When I now send 1Btc to another user, all those 100 addresses are linked together in the blockchain, effectively telling everybody that all of those belong to the same user. And if one of those addresses is linked with an account name or email, everybody knows that user is me.


Which is why you use a different receiving address for each transaction, or at least each customer.  If you desire real anonimity, you are going to have to put in some effort.  Using a mixer or a shared online wallet would help.
3975  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: First BTC Home for Rent - Yes I'm serious on: August 21, 2011, 06:56:22 PM
I recommend that you peg the monthly rent to some other currency of more stability, perhaps with a clause that prevents the monthly rent from increasing or decreasing by more than a certain percentage, say 10% either way.  This way both parties accept some of the currency risk.  Gold, silver, copper spot prices; the Euro, Yen, and even the US$ are more stable references than Bitcoin.  This will still help the bitcoin economy to grow, which will increase stability in the future; but it's not in the interests of anyone if either party to this deal ends up getting hammered and bailing out due to massive swings in the Bitcoin exchange value.
3976  Economy / Goods / Re: Zombie Apocalypse Survival Kit - 50 BTC on: August 21, 2011, 04:56:25 AM
If that's your ZAS kit, I think that the bullet to the head plan is more practical.  I carry more than that in my briefcase.

EDIT:  For that matter, I wear a Leatherman Wave and a Fenix LD20 on my belt everwhere I go except to take a bath or to bed.  My wife used to insist that I leave them at home when we went to church; until 9/11.  I have never been to church without such tools since.  (I had a Gerber and another flashlight at the time, but have since upgraded my belt tools.)  My children have never seen me without them while I was awake.  Ever.

And as I write this, there is a 14" Kukuri knife on the top of my roll-top desk, two feet away; and a stocked pantry cabinet capable of feeding my entire family for at least 30 days (except water) four feet away.  Even my house is prepped (prior owner was a security nutcase, I even disabled some of the features because I agreed with my wife that they were over the top) and the enclosed staircase leading to the bedrooms has it's own security door with a dead bolt lock (and a different key) and the stairwell leads straight up to a landing with a blind corner.  Be them zombies or criminals, that stairwell could be a shooting bottleneck.
3977  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The price of gas is still 20 cents, in 90% silver dimes. on: August 21, 2011, 04:51:07 AM
So you've still got no answer to the question, just a whole lot of reasons why you can't answer it. 


If that's all that you could understand from my responses, then I would guess that I can't answer it for you.

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Corporations are too dishonest (highly ironic, given that want you deregulate them to full power over the world),


I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist.  Try and understand the differences in the ideologies before displaying your ignorance.  Corporations are a creation of the state, and thus the state has the right to regulate them.  I'm opposed to regulations without basis or merit, which just happens to be the majority of them in our modern world.  That said, not all companies are corporations.  Corporations exist for the purpose of limitation of liability, which wouldn't even be allowed in a true free market economy.  Private companies that do not seek to limit their liabilities by hiding behind the skirt of mama state should not have to deal with the false regulations imposed by that same state.

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financials are too hard for you to understand, lots of baseless claims... but no actual answer to why corporations are not buying up gold like it's going out of style.

Yeah, I don't think you're going to make it.
3978  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The price of gas is still 20 cents, in 90% silver dimes. on: August 20, 2011, 02:47:22 AM
You seem to assume that the publicly available financial statements honestly reflect reality.  Any rational review of the past statements from such corporations such as GM, Enron and half of the Fortune 500 should expose the lie in this belief for even yourself.  

Again again, your lack of accounting knowledge shows.  Enron didn't lie.  GM definitely didn't lie.  Half the Fortune 500 companies don't lie.


I didn't say that they lied.  Don't try and put words in my mouth.  I said that their financial statements don't reflect the reality.  A lie implies the intent to deceive, which I don't believe that most corporate auditors participate in.  They simply don't know all the details themselves, because those individuals within the corporation that oversee those datasets have many incentives (personal, professional and political) to not share them.  The financial statements often don't reflect reality, in part, because you believe that you can interpret them.  But you can't, and neither can I.  No one really can, outside of the insiders who helped to create them.  They exist to blow sunshine up the skirts of regulators and mutual fund managers alike, and they work very well at this.  The only detail of any value that I've ever been able to grok from any of those statements is, whenever those things are all sunshine and happiness, it's often because the dark clouds are so dark that even the insiders don't have a viable avoidance stragedy and are afraid to put it into ink for fear of making it too real.  I exited from a strong position in GE common stock, based mostly on the overly optimistic annual report, the Thursday prior to a rumor about the sale of GE core manufacturing plants (such as Louisville Appliance Park) sent the stock price from over $30 to $12 over the following several weeks around May of 2008.  That one annual report saved me quite a tidy sum.  It's what those financial statements don't say that is the most valuable.

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Enron used created accounting that isn't allowed anymore.


They also used creative accounting that most certainly still is allowed.  Encouraged, in fact.  Feel free to search for the term, "Marked to market accounting" and compare that to what is actually allowed.

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It wasn't lies, it just took an intelligent person knowing what they're looking for to find out what condition the company was actually in.  Everyone was too busy being greedy and getting rich off the stock that no one gave enough of a shit to give the financials any more than a quick glance - not at all unlike the Madoff scheme.

That is exactly the point.  Enron was an extreme example of the practice, but they did it because they were a company in decline, and they knew it.  What they did, whether it's 'legal' or not, is still standard practice with regard to public reports.  The companies that are doing well, have no incentive to resort to such actions; but because some reports cannot be trusted at face value, the rational investor cannot trust any such reports at face value.  If, for no other reason, he is not an insider and cannot possiblely know when a viable company has crossed the rubicon headed for ultimate failure.

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GM didn't lie, they just sucked.  Everyone knew and acknowledged they sucked except the management, which is why they went down the shitter.  There was no false financial statements involved.

Get your facts straight before attempting to BS.


Get your's straight before calling someone else a liar.  Don't forget who you are talking to, either.  You continue to express your "opinions", about my character and my viewpoints, by my own leave.  I will only suffer such abuse for so long before you cease to have a vioce at all.

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Those facilities can, and generally are, provided by the oil companies as part of the futures contracts.  Thus oil and steel can be bought and sold as easily as corporate bonds, and thus are liquid assets.  I can buy a futures contract for vastly more oil than I can actually do anything with, with a built in delivery date three months out, and sell it to a refinery (or anyone else) two days before delivery confirmation.


Holding futures contracts with absolutely no intent of taking delivery != holding physical oil.  That type of activity is used for hedging and doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with what you were talking about.  Keep trying to rationalize it though, if you travel down enough irrelevant roads you might be able to salavage your grossly incorrect original statement.


Hedging is one rationalle, not the only rationalle.  That said, just what do you think that buying bonds are intenteded to do for a company, if not to hedge against inflation of the fiat currency? That's also what gold is good for, btw.
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As noted above, yes they are liquid enough to be considered as part of the 'cash reserve' figure in a summary financial statement, if the trading of such commodities is not a fundamental part of the corporation's core business model.


See above.  Contracts for the purpose of hedging are not physical assets.  Physical assets are not liquid.


Who do you think that you are arguing here? Logically correct, but still irrelevant to the topic.  Try and focus.
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This seems like a great place for a quote from a recent Wiskey & Gunpowder article (commodities traders, Wiskey & Gunpowder, get it?)

"Oh dear. The gold price in dollars is volatile because the US dollar is volatile. An ounce of gold has almost always bought you a nice suit at any time in history.


Good thing I bought a suit last month, because their prices have shot up over $300 since then.   Roll Eyes


The gold/suit example is the most ridiculous, not to mention untrue, (and most often used by the gold bugs) of all.  I didn't realize that suits were the best (or even a good) reference for comparative value.  Someone tell the Fed to stop using a large basket of goods to calculate CPI and just use the average price of a suit.

Of course you would focus on the bit about the suit, and ignore the point completely.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you simply didn't understand the point.

Gold isn't an investment.  Gold is money.  If you are buying gold, silver or even oil futures as a speculative investment, you are as likely as not to lose capital.  If you are seeking an alternative currency to the default, gold is (historicly and generally) the best choice for capital preservation.  I.e. hedging against currency risks.  Most people would simply call this "saving".
3979  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The price of gas is still 20 cents, in 90% silver dimes. on: August 20, 2011, 12:16:17 AM
Some do, some don't.  We can't really know to what degree that those who do, do so; nor can we know if those that we don't think do, actually don't.  For either of us to speculate on which do or do not, would be a particularly futile form of mental masturbation.  Again, I'm not willing to play in the dirt with you.  Not again.

You don't have to speculate.  You claim has now change to: "some do, some don't".  Provide a sitation for that claim.


I have.

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I know damn well they don't and I don't have to speculate because I can simply look at the publically available financial statements.  Gold and silver are NOT included in cash figures, therefore money in cash is money NOT in gold and silver.


You seem to assume that the publicly available financial statements honestly reflect reality.  Any rational review of the past statements from such corporations such as GM, Enron and half of the Fortune 500 should expose the lie in this belief for even yourself.  As for gold not being listed as cash, this is true, if it's listed at all.  However, generally speaking anything that the Powers that be (tm) consider to be a "cash equivalent"; such as money markets and government bonds (and basicly anything else with a highly active secondary trade market, such as oil futures within certain constraints) can be reported upon such summary statements as "cash reserves" even though they most certainly are not sitting on cash.  That cash is already back out in the market, because the finance managers don't want to be in a true cash position any more than anyone else does in an inflationary environment.

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There is no defining distinction.  Not one that can be agreed upon by all players, anyway.  The differences are both personal to the observer and temporal.


There's absolutely a defining distriction and if you knew even one iota about accounting you'd know exactly what that defining distinction is: liquidity.


Corporate paper can be offed in a matter of minutes through totally electronic means with little change in value.  Oil and steel require massive infrastructure and physical containment areas. 


Those facilities can, and generally are, provided by the oil companies as part of the futures contracts.  Thus oil and steel can be bought and sold as easily as corporate bonds, and thus are liquid assets.  I can buy a futures contract for vastly more oil than I can actually do anything with, with a built in delivery date three months out, and sell it to a refinery (or anyone else) two days before delivery confirmation.

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They require finding scarce buyers for the large quantities and slow transportation.  Physical investments are NOT liquid which is, again, why gold and silver are NOT part of the "cash" figure.


As noted above, yes they are liquid enough to be considered as part of the 'cash reserve' figure in a summary financial statement, if the trading of such commodities is not a fundamental part of the corporation's core business model.  You really should try this thing called Google, it's your friend.  If you work in this field, I feel sorry for your childrens' future.
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This is one reason that companys might not (again, we can't really know what they do if they don't really want to tell us) invest liquid reserves into gold while the general statement that gold is history's overall greatest store of value remains true. 


Boils down to: gold is the best store of value, but it might not be the best store of value.

Got it.

This seems like a great place for a quote from a recent Wiskey & Gunpowder article (commodities traders, Wiskey & Gunpowder, get it?)

"Oh dear. The gold price in dollars is volatile because the US dollar is volatile. An ounce of gold has almost always bought you a nice suit at any time in history. The volatility in the gold/dollar exchange rate is all on the dollar’s end. And that’s because the supply of dollars is always increasing. Also, the futures exchanges have been pretty active boosting margin requirements on gold contracts. That’s made for some larger-than-normal price moves. But the value? Rock steady over time, baby.

And that’s the point. Gold isn’t really an investment. It’s money. And it’s money that holds value well over time. You only worry about capital gains if you’re investing in gold. If you’re buying money, you’re more focused on preserving purchasing power."

http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/you-can%e2%80%99t-eat-asset-allocation-either/
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I'll let you in a little secret.  Large corporations do not hold their cash reserves in gold because gold is NOT a good store of value.  Gold is a speculative investment that has a history of sharp rises and falls based on panic situations.  Gold does well when times are bad and does terrible when times are good.  It is not a measure of absolute value; it is merely a measure of fear.

Yeah, things are going to get bad in the next couple of years.  I don't think you're going to make it.
3980  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The price of gas is still 20 cents, in 90% silver dimes. on: August 19, 2011, 03:39:36 AM
The same tune just keeps playing over and over again... sidestep sidestep sidestep, avoid avoid avoid... sing it with me!


So you refuse to answer my question, you refuse to provide evidence to support your bold claim, and you continue to contradict yourself by saying gold and silver are the best stores of value but companies choose cash as their value store of choice because gold and silver are not the best stores of value.


Yes, I do refuse to play your game.

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Just to recap, the question is: why do major corporations not convert their cash stores into gold?  


And a summary of my answer...

Some do, some don't.  We can't really know to what degree that those who do, do so; nor can we know if those that we don't think do, actually don't.  For either of us to speculate on which do or do not, would be a particularly futile form of mental masturbation.  Again, I'm not willing to play in the dirt with you.  Not again.

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This has nothing to do with investments in oil and steel, we're talking about CASH RESERVES AND VALUE STORE, not investments.


There is no defining distinction.  Not one that can be agreed upon by all players, anyway.  The differences are both personal to the observer and temporal.

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 If gold and silver are THE BEST and MOST STABLE stores of value (which is exactly you claim)


In general, and over long periods, yes.  Local, and near term conditions can render such a statement overly broad, and thus false for a particular set of conditions.  Not knowing any particulars, or not caring enough to do the research, any particular individual investor (saver) or company is likely to do as well or better with gold than anything else.  However, there are many companies with enough 'cash' to manage that hiring a finance manager to do the research is worthwhile.  This is one reason that companys might not (again, we can't really know what they do if they don't really want to tell us) invest liquid reserves into gold while the general statement that gold is history's overall greatest store of value remains true.  Another possible reason is that said finance manager is, in fact, criminally irresponsible and his employer simply doesn't understand that (yet).  Bernie Maddof was considered one of the greatest investment gurus in the country up until a few years ago.
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