Bitcoin Forum
July 04, 2024, 09:35:25 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 ... 166 »
41  Local / עברית (Hebrew) / Re: קבוצת מפגשי ביטקוין בישראל on: March 20, 2016, 11:12:20 AM
זירונט
http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/229730017/
42  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Israel Bitcoin Meetup Group on: March 20, 2016, 11:11:38 AM
A Bitcoin lecture, "Zeronet", has been scheduled for March 29, 19:00, in Google Campus Tel Aviv, Floor 34, Electra Tower, 98 Yigal Alon, Tel Aviv. Gathering at 18:30.

Details and registration at http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/229730017/.
43  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Way Forward - Discussions about Bitcoin's Scalability and governance on: March 01, 2016, 11:57:25 PM
Will you be posting English transcripts, or an English video. I'm not too good on reading sub-titles.
The transcript was linked from the original post: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cAkcCkVRYl7M-XSn3fdrVEDqs2FxAWZe2A5ozk7ezk4/edit
This does not include the last part of the video, which was spoken in English and you'll have to watch separately: https://youtu.be/LF23hHqdgGg?t=41m27s

We will not be doing an English-dubbed video, of course.
44  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / The Way Forward - Discussions about Bitcoin's Scalability and governance on: February 29, 2016, 10:32:05 AM
https://youtu.be/LF23hHqdgGg

This is the video from an event that took place on February 4th 2016. The event's goal was to spread awareness of a variety of issues concerning Bitcoin's scalability and governance, and to come up with new insights for tackling the challenges Bitcoin faces.

The event had 3 main parts:

40 minutes of short lectures
45 minutes of moderated round table discussions with the event's participants
Summary and conclusions of the discussions

The lectures are spoken in Hebrew with English subtitles. The summaries are spoken in English. Glimpses of the round table discussions are also featured in the video.

Lectures were given by:

Meni Rosenfeld, Israeli Bitcoin Association - intro, embracing the possibility of splitting to two currencies
Aviv Zohar, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel - the tradeoff between volume and security
Ron Gross, former Mastercoin executive director - technological progress and democracy
Nadav Ivgi, Bitrated founder - the importance of consensus
Adlai Chandrasekhar - Giving users a choice
Guy Corem, Spondoolies-Tech CEO - how Bitcoin Core can survive a contentious hard fork

Discussion moderators included Ron, Adlai, Guy, Nadav and also:

Ayal Yona Segev, Bitcoin emBassy in Tel Aviv founder
Jonathan Klinger, Advocate

If you'd rather read a written transcript, it's available here. (Does not include English-spoken summaries at the end)

If you found this interesting, you might also be interested in a panel discussion we've had half a year ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3su8xj/the_looming_fork_english_subtitles_panel/
45  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / I disapprove of Bitcoin splitting, but I’ll defend to the death its right to on: February 13, 2016, 06:53:43 PM
(Cross-post from my blog)

In a slideshow published by Brian Armstrong, CEO of Coinbase, he promotes the view that Bitcoin is currently undergoing a winner-takes-all elections, and that variety in Bitcoin protocols is a akin to variety in web browsers.

I find this incorrect, misleading and destructive.

Unlike physical currencies, governed by the laws of nature, and centralized currencies, governed by the whims of their issuers, it’s not at all obvious what ultimately governs a decentralized digital currency such as Bitcoin. There’s the protocol and the code, of course, but those are mutable and thus adhere to a higher authority.

This authority is the agreement between people – as long as users agree to use a currency with a specific protocol, this currency exists and is usable and valuable. If users agree to collectively switch to a different protocol, so be it.

But a core part of Bitcoin’s vision is that users can also agree to disagree. If a group of users wants to use a specific protocol, they have the right to do so, regardless of what anyone else says. Nobody can force a user to adopt a specific protocol. Bitcoin is not, and never has been, a democracy, governed by majority vote. It is something much better, a plurality – the ability of everyone to choose their own path.

Of course, if the advocates of a specific protocol are too few, this will make their currency less usable. So if at all possible, users have an incentive to go with the flow, join the majority and enjoy the network effects. But if it’s not possible – if the disagreement is too severe – they have the sacred, inviolable right to split off; and it is important that everyone remembers they have this right, and not be fooled by anyone who wants them to think they must settle for the view which is dominant at the time.

I used to think this was meant to be only a theoretical possibility, something that exists to keep everyone working together, and protect against rogue developers. But it’s no longer theoretical – I believe we have reached the point of no return, where we have 2 warring camps disagreeing on so many levels that a compromise will not be found. So we should split, let each faction live in peace, and make sure we do it as cleanly as possible. My views on this matter have not changed considerably since I wrote this post to the same effect half a year ago.

So much for the vision. As far as technical details go, there is indeed an instability inherent in having multiple major currencies based on the same PoW hash function. This can be alleviated by one of the sides switching to a different hash function – but in any case, it’s important to first understand the vision, then work out the technical details.

It has been suggested that in past instances of a hard fork, the network quickly collapsed on one of the sides. But this is of course ridiculous. There was never anything in the history of cryptocurrencies that even remotely resembled the situation we have now. There is no past experience to draw from. All we have is the realization that there are powerful forces on all sides of the debate which are *not* going to simply capitulate.

Finally, it’s important not to be confused between variety of protocols, and variety of software implementing a given protocol. I can use Thunderbird to send an email to someone using Outlook. I can browse a web page and see more or less the same thing whether I’m using Firefox, Chrome or IE. Analogously, I can use Bitcoin Core to send bitcoins to someone who uses Electrum – this is because both programs adhere to the same underlying Bitcoin protocol, and are thus compatible and interoperable. But the situation is very different if the sender and receiver obey different protocols – because what I am able to send is different from what the other party is able to receive.

The situation is much worse than with traditional software, because what I’m sending is not just information, but rather tokens of value. So any compatibility layer will be fundamentally financial in nature, not programmatical. Perhaps one day we will have the infrastructure for seamless conversion between different digital currencies. But until then, we should see the multiplicity in protocols for what it is – a hard split into incompatible currencies – and not muddy the discussion with naive, broken analogies to web browsers.

It would make me quite happy if a compromise is found that will allow all current Bitcoin proponents to be part of the same network. But if not, I like having the option to split, and will defend our right to do so. You should too.
46  Local / עברית (Hebrew) / Re: קבוצת מפגשי ביטקוין בישראל on: January 29, 2016, 01:09:49 PM
רב-שיח: מפת הדרכים של ביטקוין
http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/228322084/
47  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Israel Bitcoin Meetup Group on: January 29, 2016, 01:08:28 PM
A round table discussion on Bitcoin's roadmap has been scheduled for February 4, 19:30, in Campus Tel Aviv, Floor 34, Electra Tower, 98 Yigal Alon, Tel Aviv. Gathering at 19:00.

Details and registration at http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/228322084/.
48  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Israel Bitcoin Meetup Group on: January 18, 2016, 08:19:49 PM
You are truly interested in meeting new people and are open to learn.
I can not wait to see what BTC services and ideas come out from IL.
Well, you can have a look at the list of those which already have: https://goo.gl/hmxVQN

Of course, we'll have more in the future.
49  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Israeli Bitcoin Conference November 25, 2015 - "Bitcoin and Beyond" on: December 24, 2015, 03:52:46 PM
The videos from the event are available at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiOFfTVghPYhntDE1B0VT7wV9HD0lpI5h.
Photos are available at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.955170151221188.1073741826.149189368485941&type=3.
Slides at https://bitcoin.org.il/files/Bitcoin_and_Beyond_2015_Slides.zip.

Hi,

Do you have the presentation online for whoever was not attended ?

I guess some were in English

Thanks
Only one lecture was in English -
Jihan Wu (Bitmain Tech CEO) - The Bitcoin Scene in China: https://youtu.be/XTsGRiup0Wc?t=19m7s

Most of the slides were in English, though, and they might be interesting on their own.
50  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: English Bitcoin lectures in Israel on: December 21, 2015, 10:59:00 AM
What Bitcoin Private Keys say to Each Other (Nicolas T. Courtois, October 2015)
51  Local / עברית (Hebrew) / Re: קבוצת מפגשי ביטקוין בישראל on: December 08, 2015, 11:41:02 AM
להשתחרר מהשלשלאות
http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/227289840/
52  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Israel Bitcoin Meetup Group on: December 08, 2015, 11:40:10 AM
A Bitcoin lecture, "Breaking free from chains: Secure "chainless" protocols for Bitcoin", has been scheduled for December 17, 19:30, in Campus Tel Aviv, Floor 34, Electra Tower, 98 Yigal Alon, Tel Aviv. Gathering at 19:00.

Details and registration at http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/227289840/.
53  Bitcoin / Meetups / Israeli Bitcoin Conference November 25, 2015 - "Bitcoin and Beyond" on: November 23, 2015, 08:57:06 PM
On November 25, 2015 we will be holding the annual conference of the Israeli Bitcoin Association, covering all aspects of Bitcoin and the Blockchain technology.

The talks will be given in Hebrew and range from economics, law and politics to technology, entrepreneurship and research. The conference will also feature an exhibit hall and plenty of networking opportunity.

Details at http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/226535373/ and conference@bitcoin.org.il.

This is more of an FYI - the conference is local and most readers here are not the target audience.
54  Local / עברית (Hebrew) / Re: קבוצת מפגשי ביטקוין בישראל on: October 22, 2015, 03:13:17 PM
כמה מפתחות פרטיים אנחנו יכולים לחשב?
http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/226233858/
55  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Israel Bitcoin Meetup Group on: October 22, 2015, 03:09:49 PM
A Bitcoin special lecture, "How Many Private Keys Can We Compute in the Bitcoin Blockchain?", has been scheduled for October 29, 19:30, in Campus Tel Aviv, Floor 34, Electra Tower, 98 Yigal Alon, Tel Aviv. Gathering at 19:00.

Details and registration at http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/226233858/.
56  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: Israel Bitcoin Meetup Group on: September 04, 2015, 01:56:34 PM
A special Bitcoin meetup as part of the DLD conference has been scheduled for September 8, 18:00, in the Bitcoin emBassy, Ahuzat Bayit 1 Tel Aviv.

Details and registration at http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/224537960/.
57  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Meni's Blog - Fiery Spinning Sword on: August 24, 2015, 11:47:08 PM
How I learned to stop worrying and love the fork
(I might cross-post that as a thread here).
Say Core market value is $100/coin

Say XT market value is $200/coin

I would expect that difficulty of each chain would adjust to how much mining effort was applied to supporting each.  Thus, a miner would mine twice as many coins on Core as XT for a given total hash input.  I would anticipate then that the mining power would approach a ratio which was represented by the market value of the respective coins.

Since I do not fully understand how difficulties are represented in chains, I don't know if I am off-base in this thesis.  Any thoughts?
That's basically correct, for a first-order approximation. But if most miners are opportunistic, always switching to whichever chain is more profitable, there could be serious oscillations in the hashrate of each chain. All of them will mine on one chain (the one which is slightly more profitable at the moment), then after ~2 weeks its difficulty will spike, and then they will all move to the other chain. Resolving this is an open problem.
58  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / How I learned to stop worrying and love the fork on: August 24, 2015, 11:16:58 PM
(Cross-post from my blog)

It’s hot in Israel in August, but not nearly as hot as the global debate surrounding the release of Bitcoin-XT and the contentious hard fork that would ensue if enough people adopt it. It seems that both proponents and opponents of Bitcoin-XT dread the possibility of the network splitting in two, and focus on making sure everyone switches to their side to prevent this from happening. Contrary to this post’s title, I don’t actually like the prospect of a fork; but I do claim that having two networks coexist side-by-side is a real possibility, that it is not the end of the world, and that we should spend more energy on preparing for this contingency.



It’s possible

Let’s start with the feasibility of this. The ways this could unfold, in decreasing order of my estimate for their likelihood, are:

1. Bitcoin-XT will not reach the threshold required to actually diverge from the current Bitcoin on the blockchain level within a reasonable time, and we will meet again for round two of the debate.
2. Bitcoin-XT will form a separate blockchain and network in or near January 2016.
3. A compromise will be reached which will make Bitcoin-XT obsolete as a separate initiative.
4. Bitcoin users will, virtually unanimously, switch to Bitcoin-XT.

Option #4 was included for completeness, but in my opinion is pretty much impossible. There is too much disagreement about the technical issues, the change in governance, and the bold forking attempt for everyone to just drop everything and tag along. The prospects for compromise (#3) look grim at the moment, the gap in philosophies seems to large to bridge. #1 is highly likely – Bitcoin-XT has support, but I don’t think enough to pass the 75% threshold. But if it does have enough… We find ourselves in scenario #2 – the unprecedented event of a significant cryptocurrency having its network, blockchain and community split in two.

It’s (relatively) safe

Is it bad? Well, yeah. First, Vires in Numeris – Bitcoin is subject to strong network effects, and two networks of roughly half the size are not as strong as one big network. Second, there’s bound to be confusion all around, with two separate currencies each claiming to be the one true Bitcoin. Third, people will think that it is bad (for both real and imagined reasons) and lose faith, stunting Bitcoin’s growth.

How bad? Let’s analyze the short-term effects from the point of view of three types of Bitcoin users:

1. The merchant that accepts Bitcoin payments. He doesn’t have to do anything about this, at all. He teams up with his favorite payment processor, as he did before, and let the processor, and the Bitcoin enthusiast that will pay him, work out the details.
2. The Bitcoin investor. If she bought bitcoins before the fork, she needn’t do anything at all. If she bought 1000 bitcoins, she will now have 1000 coins on the Bitcoin core network and 1000 coins on the Bitcoin-XT network. Whether the currency that will survive is one, the other, or both, her investment is safe.
3. The Bitcoin enthusiast. He will probably have to carry two Bitcoin wallets around (or a special wallet that separately manages funds for both networks), and whenever he wants to pay with Bitcoin, he may have to figure out which version of Bitcoin the recipient expects. That’s extra work and trouble. But it’s okay, he can deal with it. He’s an enthusiast.

I will talk more about longer-term prospects in the section about preparing for the fork. But for now I’d like to say a few more words about confusion. Often I’m frustrated by the obscene amount of misinformation about Bitcoin that is spread around, and then I realize that… That’s not a unique problem for Bitcoin. The world is full of ignorance, misinformation, disinformation, persistent myths, propaganda, misnomers, downright confusion, and simply people who are wrong. Humanity still haven’t figured out an efficient way to organize the world’s knowledge in a way that is accessible and reliable. And yet earth hasn’t exploded yet. We get by. We study the things we truly care about, we understand meaning from context, and we make the most out of the information available to us. So I doubt making the Bitcoin ecosystem a bit more confusing will make it collapse.

This and other concerns will, of course, have a negative impact – but they’re little more than bumps on Bitcoin’s road to success, of which Bitcoin has already had plenty and will have many more.

Furthermore, a fork was in some ways inevitable. Remember that nothing like Bitcoin was ever done before. We had physical currencies, where the rules were determined by physical laws; and we had centralized currencies, where the rules were set by a predetermined, trusted (even if untrustworthy) 3rd party. But a decentralized digital currency? That’s a strange beast, and we all signed up to the notion that what keeps it intact is consensus among people. But it is presumptuous to expect that all of humanity will agree on all the rules all the time. There are differing opinions and philosophies, and when those manifest, camps will part ways. Much like living organisms, cryptocurrencies will replicate. They will compete. They will die. They will survive. They will evolve. And in so doing, they will become stronger.

And I’m not saying, of course, that it’s good that we’re forking right now. We should still try to prevent it if at all possible. But a fork is bound to happen sometime (even if for wholly unrelated reasons), so we may as well gain some experience about the process. We could learn that forks are terrible and we should never let them happen again… Or that forks are great and we should do them all the time… We could learn how to prevent or prepare for future forks, Or we may learn something else entirely. It may be more chaotic than hoping that the mere fear of a fork will keep everyone together, but it’s certainly less rigid and fragile, and more flexible.

We should prepare

So how should the fork unfold? Ideally, the changed version (Bitcoin-XT in this case) will have a different transaction structure for txs that take place after the blockchain split, so that transactions on one network will never be valid on the other, and vice versa. Unfortunately, I have seen no indication that such a thing exists or is planned for Bitcoin-XT (a major red mark for its developers, by the way, assuming there is nothing I missed), so things might get a bit messier. Left to their own devices, transactions might be accepted by one network, the other, or both, and it’s difficult to control which.

A prudent user will consider the currencies as separate, starting from the block where the chain splits. Each will have its own balances, its own exchange rate against other currencies, its own list of places that accept it, etc. But he will need to be careful not to send currency A, and have his transaction accidentally picked up by network B, which will result in him losing his coins B without compensation from the receiver, who never requested coins B.

To do this he will need to decouple his coins into their components. The way to do this is to get some coins generated as coinbase in a post-split block (or coins that can have some trace of those) – those will function as a collapse agent, since they are valid in only one of the networks, say A. Then he will send all his coins – both pre-split UTXOs with his savings, and the post-split collapse agent – to himself. This transaction will only be vaild in network A, so in the receiving address he will have a coin (UTXO) with the total of his balance, that is strictly of currency A. Once this transaction is confirmed, his original UTXO is collapsed into currency B, since in network A they were already spent. Then he can manage his currency with two separate wallets, knowing for certain which currency he sends at any given time.

If he stores coins in a paper wallet, he needn’t worry about it at first. He can extract and decouple the coins at any time. Waiting has the added benefit that one of the networks might die by then, meaning he can claim the coins in the only network that matters without extra effort.

Of course, all of this might be too cumbersome for typical users. Ideally, there will be exchanges and wallet services supporting both currencies which can facilitate the process. Users of these services will have a separate balance for coin A and coin B. The user can simply send coins to his deposit address for the service. The wallet will credit the user’s balance for coin A, B or both depending on which networks acknowledge the transaction. The wallet will then hold superposed coins, and will decouple them as above. When the user wishes to withdraw funds, he will separately withdraw each currency to different wallets, and the service will make to sure to send him only decoupled coins. Then, again, he can know for certain which coins he has in which wallet, and use each to pay when appropriate.

If the user has strong beliefs favoring one currency or another, he can use the exchange to sell just the other currency. He can then even use the funds to buy more of his favorite currency.

The Bitcoin URI for requesting payments should include information about which coin is expected. This will be used by merchants and so on, according to the preference of their payment services provider. The user who wishes to pay can use the information to pay with the correct wallet.

Ideally, smart wallets will be developed which hold both coins A and coins B, and when given a payment request, automatically send the correct type. For example, if we are buying a product worth $280, a bitcoin A is worth $140, and a Bitcoin B is worth $70, the merchant will display either a request for 2 bitcoins A (worth $280) or a request for 4 bitcoins B (worth $280), according to the merchant’s preference. The user will just scan it as normal and have the wallet send it. Users doesn’t really need to worry about it – it suffices to make sure he always carries around both types, assuming he’s expecting to find merchants accepting either type.

Going forward, one of two things can happen:

1. One the currencies will be significantly less popular than the other. It will see less merchants accepting it, its exchange rate will drop, and its technology will develop slowly. Users will be disillusioned by this and migrate to the other currency. Eventually it will for all intents and purposes disappear, and the popular currency will rise as the one true pretender to the Bitcoin throne.
2. Both currencies will enjoy a significant following, forever (or until the heat death of the universe, or whatever). Each will have its own advantages and disadvantages, and people can freely choose between using one, the other, or both. In this case, it is not sufficient to have software and services to handle the plurality seamlessly – the name ambiguity should be resolved, and it will be prudent for the less popular currency (measured by market cap if no better metric is found) to give way, change its name, and finish its cycle of separating from the other currency.

It will be a bit messy, but we can handle it. A fork in the road is not the end of the world.
59  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Meni's Blog - Fiery Spinning Sword on: August 24, 2015, 10:52:13 PM
How I learned to stop worrying and love the fork
(I might cross-post that as a thread here).
60  Local / עברית (Hebrew) / Re: הציגו את עצמכם on: August 24, 2015, 10:49:31 PM
היי יש לי שאלה, עם מי אני יכול לדבר בנוגע לביטוקיין?
אשמח לקבל עוד פרטים בנושא

קידום אתרים
elo boost
https://www.elorift.com
הכי טוב לבוא למפגשים פיזיים, במיוחד אם אתה באיזור ת"א. יש מפגש היום בערב במגדל אלקטרה (http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin-il/events/224746783/) ואתה יכול גם לבוא בכל עת לשגרירות הביטקוין באחוזת בית 1 ת"א.

יש גם קבוצת פייסבוק https://www.facebook.com/groups/btcil/.
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 ... 166 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!