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Some ppl on the main thread predicted that they may file for bankruptcy and it looks like they are not doing that as of now.
If they file for bankruptcy, our money will be gone, legal method. Such a shame, it's so easy to scam people legally. Lets just hope it doesn't happen. I believe there must be a reason for HashFast to be so willingly giving USD refunds. That reason in my opinion is that they do know that they have put themselves in the position in which ppl can actually ask for BTC refunds. Fingers crossed. |
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Isn't Neptune the miner that Markus wanted to build all along?? It is Sam we should all toast every Oct since he put a firecracker in everyone's ass to ship first and everything else second
But since they say they can't build new controller boards anyway, their hands were tied.. nice that they were upfront about it
I still think Jupiters' power usage is fine since 'the long haul' is finding a really cheap place for electricity anyway.
So why waste all the time and money on 20nm etc blah blah design?
everyone seems to forget math when it comes to this love affair with power usage on this gen's miners
I thought that way briefly too lately but realize that mining is global and it is probably easier to find a cheap place in the world to run the miner than to bother with costly redesign
+1 It would be interesting to see how many ppl would rather have 2 additional jupiters now rather 1 Neptune in 4 months. |
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Xeon, if we use the lawyer it will be 45% off the top of our original purchase price back if we win... 40% goes to the lawyer, 5% goes to Waldo for having managed the account... To answer anyone's question we will never get back 100% of what we paid in btc... Waldo has his fees he justly deserves for having managed the account, however even if we manage to win after having lawyer'ed up we'd still make back the value of about 5x (give or take) what we originally invested based off buy in, in cash in August... They may yet still return the btc at a loss of only 5%, but it's a game of waiting, the longer we wait to lawyer up the bigger chance of a natural btc refund without lawyer, but we've explored the route if we need to take that course... Yes money is money, but like all forms of investment and cash holding, waiting is an integral and key part to it... Waldo has our best interests at heart (because when we make a bigger cut back so does he) so sit back, relax and in the next 30 days we'll know if we'll have a refund or if we're going to court... It's a process, and it sucks... I'd love to have held into my btc too, but if you don't have money to never see again don't invest, it's the same as gambling...
Pretty much this! Did you get a force refund for the orders or have you heard? If you do get cheques what is the current plan? Cash, convert and payout?
Phil
Phil - if ever something as important as me receiving a check from HF, please understand that the first and only priority would be to post this for everyone to know. Please understand I would never take action without first consulting with all of you (cashing the check, holding it and not saying a word, converting, etc). Now with all of that being said, I have not received a forced check at any of my mailing addresses. I made it pretty clear with the 10+ emails that I have sent to HashFast that I am inquiring/requesting a FULL BTC refund per their own Employees stating so. Received: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: < bitpaysupport@hashfast.com> Hi Jim, Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it. The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid. I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend! Thanks, Cara Good job waldo! keep up the good work  Xeon, if we use the lawyer it will be 45% off the top of our original purchase price back if we win... 40% goes to the lawyer, 5% goes to Waldo for having managed the account... To answer anyone's question we will never get back 100% of what we paid in btc... Waldo has his fees he justly deserves for having managed the account, however even if we manage to win after having lawyer'ed up we'd still make back the value of about 5x (give or take) what we originally invested based off buy in, in cash in August... They may yet still return the btc at a loss of only 5%, but it's a game of waiting, the longer we wait to lawyer up the bigger chance of a natural btc refund without lawyer, but we've explored the route if we need to take that course... Yes money is money, but like all forms of investment and cash holding, waiting is an integral and key part to it... Waldo has our best interests at heart (because when we make a bigger cut back so does he) so sit back, relax and in the next 30 days we'll know if we'll have a refund or if we're going to court... It's a process, and it sucks... I'd love to have held into my btc too, but if you don't have money to never see again don't invest, it's the same as gambling...
Pretty much this! Did you get a force refund for the orders or have you heard? If you do get cheques what is the current plan? Cash, convert and payout?
Phil
Phil - if ever something as important as me receiving a check from HF, please understand that the first and only priority would be to post this for everyone to know. Please understand I would never take action without first consulting with all of you (cashing the check, holding it and not saying a word, converting, etc). Now with all of that being said, I have not received a forced check at any of my mailing addresses. I made it pretty clear with the 10+ emails that I have sent to HashFast that I am inquiring/requesting a FULL BTC refund per their own Employees stating so. Received: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: < bitpaysupport@hashfast.com> Hi Jim, Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it. The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid. I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend! Thanks, Cara Good job waldo! keep up the good work +1 |
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This is what USD refunds are looking like.. wow! Really?!   They are shameless. Just received a USD refund letter + check in response to my original full BTC payment refund request on Nov 10 and Jan 2: https://i.imgur.com/BMRKKs5.jpg?1For reference, my refund request is hereI did not fill out their USD refund & release form and did not request this. Getting so tired of these games. The way I am reading this is they are at least capable of usd refund which is sort of good news. Getting a USD refund has never been an issue at all- that has been readily available since the 31st- but I do not agree with that type of refund at all. Some ppl on the main thread predicted that they may file for bankruptcy and it looks like they are not doing that as of now. |
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This is what USD refunds are looking like.. wow! Really?! They are shameless. Just received a USD refund letter + check in response to my original full BTC payment refund request on Nov 10 and Jan 2: https://i.imgur.com/BMRKKs5.jpg?1For reference, my refund request is hereI did not fill out their USD refund & release form and did not request this. Getting so tired of these games. The way I am reading this is they are at least capable of usd refund which is sort of good news. |
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Just got this reply from Ray (lawyer): Ray E. Gallo
10:45 AM (0 minutes ago)
to me
Yes. We are taking these cases. They must be arbitrated individually under the consumer rules. If you paid in BTC, have evidence of that, and timely cancelled your order and demanded a BTC refund in writing, we can help. Email me your contact information and order confirmations and we will send you a fee agreement. We will work on contingency and take 40% or the fee award, whichever is greater. We will try to recover your fees (and if so, we’ll take those instead of the 40%), but there is no clear basis so an award of fees is not likely.
Call me to discuss.
Ray
Kicking HF ass is something I would like the most. No matter which way. They thought that there is a place for 2nd bfl and they need to be proven wrong. Of course I still want my 40 btc or so back. Even 60%. |
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Calm yourself, kid. If you want to to take the vinegar route over honey, by all means do, lets see where that gets you.
And by full refund that means full BTC refund I have been requesting.. we can EASILY get a USD refund right now- that is NOT what I have been requesting. Why on earth would you even think that?
Have no idea why do you think I'm a kid, I'm much older than you. Who said I thought you've requested a US$ refund? I've told you that you were not authorized to ask any kind of refund without our vote. Who gave you the right to ask for a BTC refund when you were warned again and again not to do that because HF is just waiting for a excuse not to ship the miners & MPP? You've done that just to get all this away from yourself, as I've said it's not your money so you just don't care. The quote you gave: "I reserve the right to make any changes to the above in favor of each investor’s best interest." - how is getting US$ refund translating to each investors best interest? You seem not to get the simple fact: It was obvious a month before the Dec 31st deadline there would be no full BTC refunds. Against everybody best judgment and our warnings, and without putting it to a vote, you've requested any kind of refund. Who gave you the right to do that? It seems you have some authority issues. I am not sure if it's a right forum to deal with that... |
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I'm a member of all GB organised by waldo. He always works towards benefit of the GB members.
The whole situation is f***ed up and the only one who is responsible for that mess is HF.
Use common sense, common.
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We will never get the full amount back or do we ?
I very much doubt it. |
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I'm just wondering, had btc price fallen down to say 30 or 10 dollars, would HF have returned the btc or dollars to us?
That's actually a valid question. I personally would try to get btc anyways. Main reason and risk taking when purchasing a miner is to mine btc in order to get more btc rather then keeping btc and hoping for it's value to rise. Of course I state it now when the value of btc have risen 10 fold so I can be biased ;-) |
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On second thought I think that going with legal actions will be the better solution for this, but before that, isn't better to ask for a full BTC refund and tell them we will go ahead with legal actions if we don't receive it? Also I was thinking in something... did them used BitPay to receive the payments of the BabyJets? If it is true the company would never had our bitcoins and them received the USD payment through the payment processor... in that case, we are able to ask for a BTC refund? I'm really confused with that  They choose if they receive USD or BTC from Bitpay. I believe this is irrelevant as they promised btc refunds. Of course they now try to sneak out of it and I guess this is mostly what the suit is going to be about. |
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I would like to see more than 2 developer units to be delivered to even remotely think about getting the miners.
Difficulty is going berserk. In 2 months 400 gh will give you about 1btc a month. Hf would have to really try harder than current terms of mpp.
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The problem is that scamfast gave a deadline for deciding about USD refunds. Deadline expires today
We never agreed to that or any other deadline, they are the ones that obligated themselves and missed the deadlines. If we accept their US$ refunds under their terms we are doomed - we reject the possibility of realistic refund and ever receiving the MPP. Why would we do such a thing? I really can't care less about what they say. I am just reminding what waldo wrote. For the moment I doubt any MPP or timely delivery. I say let's sue them. Although it sure will require some time and energy from waldo (I guess?) and it pretty much depends on him if he will want to get into this. |
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I'm not familiar with lawyer costs, 40% means like what 40% of what we think HF owes us?! Or is it a fixed number that happens to be so very high? What happens if we got togerher with other GB's and those who ordered from batch 1 to pay the lawyer?
I did not follow the main thread to know what is the status of other suits. Is there anybody that can summarize? To me Gallo seems to be the most straightforward choice. |
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I doubt that waldo will get the reply from all the shareholders but if we were to vote I vote #3.
Yeah, seems like a good idea. We could do a 3 day voting window. And then, based on participating users / or number of their shares, how we should proceed. Those who don't vote miss the fun. The problem is that scamfast gave a deadline for deciding about USD refunds. Deadline expires today |
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My first move would be to wait for the advanced miners but since they can't be trusted to ship ever and since they're acting in such an unfriendly manner while displaying poor business acumen w/ shitty customer service, I'm all for nailing their asses to the wall and coughing up the 40%. At first this was all business but now it's personal. Offering someone a throwback usd value for something that is now effectively worth 5-7 times more is downright insulting. Holler if ya hear me!
Argggh ;-) I can see three choices: - #1 do nothing and hope for HF to deliver (chicken option)
- #2 ask for usd refund (lame option)
- #3 go with the suit (kick ass! option)
I doubt that waldo will get the reply from all the shareholders but if we were to vote I vote #3. |
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So I received an email from HashFast in the middle of the night regarding refunds.
They are fully ignoring all calls and emails from me.
The email basically stated that if we watch a refund for Batch 1 it will only be in USD and it needs to be decided by tomorrow (really?). I really hate everything about this company so I'm with whatever you guys decide. The lawyer aboves fees are 40% BTW.
At this point I'm not too sure what move to make.
Honestly I don't see how this case will win. BTC is not considered legal tender so the court will probably rule that they have to refund the original value in USD which is already what they're offering. Does this guy promise only to take his fee if he wins? What is his fee if he loses? I'm ok with whatever the majority decides, as I don't really have a big stake in this group buy to try and sway ideas but this all seems a lose lose situation. Thank you waldo for everything you've done. It does not matter that BTC is legal tender. Hash Fast guaranteed delivery by 12/31 or they would provide a full refund in BTC. They also said they will guarantee your BTC. I think they made those promises prematurely, but it was those promises that prompted many to take the gamble on their hardware. The lawyer will not get paid unless he wins. So, I suspect he feels he'll win, otherwise there is no point in taking the case.This is exactly what I think. |
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So if we do go with suit and loose the case won't they have to deliver or refund anyways? What am I missing?
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I say lets sue those fu****ers.
Let's join the Gallo lead suit.
I am not sure if I got that right but the worst case scenario in this case would be we get our miners after all i.e. if we now deny USD refund. Even if we loose the suit hf will have to compensate us somehow.
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- If we get full BTC refund I am for refund.
- If we are to be paid in USD exchanged for BTC i say lets get those miners - it would be nice to have additional MPP promised modules with that.
- No idea how to approach upgrades though.
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