all finished

[3rac3]

So if we do go with suit and loose the case won't they have to deliver or refund anyways? What am I missing?

[paulej]

So I received an email from HashFast in the middle of the night regarding refunds.

They are fully ignoring all calls and emails from me.

The email basically stated that if we watch a refund for Batch 1 it will only be in USD and it needs to be decided by tomorrow (really?). I really hate everything about this company so I'm with whatever you guys decide. The lawyer aboves fees are 40% BTW.

At this point I'm not too sure what move to make.

Honestly I don't see how this case will win.  BTC is not considered legal tender so the court will probably rule that they have to refund the original value in USD which is already what they're offering.  Does this guy promise only to take his fee if he wins?  What is his fee if he loses?  I'm ok with whatever the majority decides, as I don't really have a big stake in this group buy to try and sway ideas but this all seems a lose lose situation.  Thank you waldo for everything you've done.

It does not matter that BTC is legal tender. Hash Fast guaranteed delivery by 12/31 or they would provide a full refund in BTC. They also said they will guarantee your BTC.  I think they made those promises prematurely, but it was those promises that prompted many to take the gamble on their hardware.

The lawyer will not get paid unless he wins. So, I suspect he feels he'll win, otherwise there is no point in taking the case.

[3rac3]

So I received an email from HashFast in the middle of the night regarding refunds.

They are fully ignoring all calls and emails from me.

The email basically stated that if we watch a refund for Batch 1 it will only be in USD and it needs to be decided by tomorrow (really?). I really hate everything about this company so I'm with whatever you guys decide. The lawyer aboves fees are 40% BTW.

At this point I'm not too sure what move to make.

Honestly I don't see how this case will win.  BTC is not considered legal tender so the court will probably rule that they have to refund the original value in USD which is already what they're offering.  Does this guy promise only to take his fee if he wins?  What is his fee if he loses?  I'm ok with whatever the majority decides, as I don't really have a big stake in this group buy to try and sway ideas but this all seems a lose lose situation.  Thank you waldo for everything you've done.

It does not matter that BTC is legal tender. Hash Fast guaranteed delivery by 12/31 or they would provide a full refund in BTC. They also said they will guarantee your BTC.  I think they made those promises prematurely, but it was those promises that prompted many to take the gamble on their hardware.

The lawyer will not get paid unless he wins. So, I suspect he feels he'll win, otherwise there is no point in taking the case.

This is exactly what I think.

[floatyfish]

So I received an email from HashFast in the middle of the night regarding refunds.

They are fully ignoring all calls and emails from me.

The email basically stated that if we watch a refund for Batch 1 it will only be in USD and it needs to be decided by tomorrow (really?). I really hate everything about this company so I'm with whatever you guys decide. The lawyer aboves fees are 40% BTW.

At this point I'm not too sure what move to make.

40%? That's quite a gamble there...I'm fine with either option.

[forevernoob]

Yeah, either spend 40% on a lawyer or hope that you get the miners from HashFast sometime this year.
I'm leaning lawyer option on this one. I don't think HashFast is gonna deliver anytime soon.
Also they might declare bankruptcy and then we don't get anything at all.
 
BTW isn't there somebody cheaper we could hire? Isn't Saul Goodman available? 
There was a guy before that was talking about some relative he had that might be able to help out.

[grchris]

Even at 40% if he wins the case and we get back our BTC we would get at least 4-5 times more than accepting a refund in USD now. Assuming that BTC price stays the same or goes higher of course.

If we sue and we loose though, do we still get the miners if they ever deliver? If they deliver very late lets say 6 months from now do these miners have any value???

[itod]

Hash Fast guaranteed delivery by 12/31 or they would provide a full refund in BTC. They also said they will guarantee your BTC.  I think they made those promises prematurely, but it was those promises that prompted many to take the gamble on their hardware.

We don't have a word "full" in writing. There's a word "payment" in the original TOS. HashFast is interpreting "payment" as a "BTC equivalent of the US$ value of the product". So they are offering that US$ amount back, in BTC, at todays BTC/US$ exchange rate. To get more than that (original BTC amount we payed) we have to fight them in the court of law.

[floatyfish]

At this point I've written off my BTC as being gone forever unfortunately  we might as well sue them to at least set a precedence.

[MoonShad0w384]

I am with you all on the lawyer option. If we win, we get 60% of the BTC that we paid, which is a lot more than the USD equivalent option. I would appreciate some clarification from waldo about what could happen if we lose.

I also recommend to waldo to try and make contact with others who have orders with HF.

Let's hold a vote on this ASAP.

[id10tothe9]

I'm not familiar with lawyer costs, 40% means like what 40% of what we think HF owes us?! Or is it a fixed number that happens to be so very high? What happens if we got togerher with other GB's and those who ordered from batch 1 to pay the lawyer?

[3rac3]

I'm not familiar with lawyer costs, 40% means like what 40% of what we think HF owes us?! Or is it a fixed number that happens to be so very high? What happens if we got togerher with other GB's and those who ordered from batch 1 to pay the lawyer?

I did not follow the main thread to know what is the status of other suits. Is there anybody that can summarize?

To me Gallo seems to be the most straightforward choice.

[likehiro]

I'm seriously think that we should wait for the miners and this (http://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/) as our best card against HasFast. I don't need my BTC right now and I'm sure that using a lawyer for a full refund for bitcoins in this phase would leave us all with just the USD refund (-40% lawyer fees). According to the MPP we will have the possibility to have 2TH if the rigs don't give back the amount of bitcoins spent in 90 days. Well, if we calculate that 400GH will not fill our needs once shipped the machine we can ask for the MPP and they can't do anything that is not said in the MPP (the only other way is escaping with all our money, but they could done this long time ago too, I don't think they want to disappear), and if they can't follow all the points detailed in the page about it, we can seriously use any lawyer for it (not just the one who charges 40% of our money) because it's in the web right now and they are talking about BTC, not dollars and we will be having our initial buy of the Baby Jets and not empty hands (I think that a baby jet right now could give us a refund in USD easily and faster than HF with the actual bitcoin price).

This is my opinion, and I think that is the safest way to go against this company and win.

Hope you all understand my point, my english is terrible 

[itod]

I'm seriously think that we should wait for the miners and this (http://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/) as our best card against HasFast. I don't need my BTC right now and I'm sure that using a lawyer for a full refund for bitcoins in this phase would leave us all with just the USD refund (-40% lawyer fees). According to the MPP we will have the possibility to have 2TH if the rigs don't give back the amount of bitcoins spent in 90 days. Well, if we calculate that 400GH will not fill our needs once shipped the machine we can ask for the MPP and they can't do anything that is not said in the MPP (the only other way is escaping with all our money, but they could done this long time ago too, I don't think they want to disappear), and if they can't follow all the points detailed in the page about it, we can seriously use any lawyer for it (not just the one who charges 40% of our money) because it's in the web right now and they are talking about BTC, not dollars and we will be having our initial buy of the Baby Jets and not empty hands (I think that a baby jet right now could give us a refund in USD easily and faster than HF with the actual bitcoin price).

This is my opinion, and I think that is the safest way to go against this company and win.

Hope you all understand my point, my english is terrible 

You want us to wait for delivery of BabyJet, and than sue them for MPP? It's a nice idea, but with two problems:
1) They never committed to a delivery date for MPP, just the accounting date (Jan 31st) when amount for MPP boards is calculated. Can we sue them if the delivery date is unknown?
2) It may happen they go down and never deliver the BabyJet. It is not highly probable, but it is the possibility.

Nevertheless, it's a sound idea you are proposing, everything is better than the US$ refund.

[beavertank]

I'm not familiar with lawyer costs, 40% means like what 40% of what we think HF owes us?! Or is it a fixed number that happens to be so very high? What happens if we got togerher with other GB's and those who ordered from batch 1 to pay the lawyer?

A 40% contingency fee, which is what's under discussion, means he takes 40% of any recovery if we win and only filing fees if we lose.

So, for an easy illustration, say we win $10k and the filing fees and costs are $1k. First, you subtract the $1k fees/costs from the recovery, then you remove the lawyer's contingency percentage from the remaining $9k (so, remove $3.6k, this is what the lawyer gets paid), the lawyer then cuts us a check for $5.4k and that's what we get out of it.

If we win $20k, and the fees/costs are still $1k, the lawyer keeps $7.6k (40% of the $19k left after costs/fees) and we get a check for $11.4k. Hopefully that helps clear up the issue.

My vote: Fuck hashfast. Lawyer up and make them pay what they owe.

[davisdmg]

Hello guys, I have been following this thread from the shadows...I also have a participation in this group buy. I think that the USD refund is not an option. They win with it and we lose time and money.

Getting the new miners would be an option...

[Chef Ramsay]

Getting the upgraded miners would've been my first move too if they can be trusted to get their head out of their ass and focus solely on production and delivery. What the hell were these people doing from our August order dates up to the original delivery schedule in October? Then, they couldn't even make it by the new year and are circling the wagons to fend off potential litigation from customers that just want their shit working properly w/ a tune up. I didn't want to lawyer-up on them but if it can't be etched in stone that we'll have our shit on steroids asap and their only other solution is to toss us some throwback USD crumbs then they can get fucked. The way I see it is if we're to take a massive haircut by getting back USD value then we might as well stake the farm on it and go for broke.

As a side note, they could be overwhelmed and it makes sense on their end to buy as many orders out in USD and then they can redeem themselves with the rest of their customers by shipping upgrades which allow most of the coinage to be recopped over time. There's just nothing that stands out that allows me to view them with faith and full credit. I feel for Waldo as he's in the middle of this and it must be a royal pain in the ass dealing with this clown show.

[g83]

If they just could tell us, when they would deliver if we choose to - but they can't even do that. Themself can hold no deadline but they tell us to accept refund in dollars by today ? If not what will they do ?? Deliver ??

[AstralWonder]

Voting Poll for Batch 1 shareholders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=407381.new#new

Voted. (For legal action with the 40% guy)

[Ferr]

Voting Poll for Batch 1 shareholders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=407381.new#new

Voted. (For legal action with the 40% guy)

agreed

[g83]

Voting Poll for Batch 1 shareholders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=407381.new#new

voted for legal action