all finished

[floatyfish]

I believe today is the last day to sign up with the legal action guy....Waldo, perhaps after a certain time (say 4 PM EST) you should close the votes, tally everything up, and then get in contact with the legal action man so we can be part of this.

[ottuzzi]

Hi,

   just to be clear: let's suppose we ask for full refund aka 5.600$.
I bought shares for 9BTCs that at time was about 100$ (let's say 100$ for brevity) per BTC: should I expect a final refund from waldohoover for 900$?
Or, as I bought 3 shares of 40 in total (7,5%), should I expect 7,5% of 5.600$ (that is about 420$)?
I cannot vote without knowing these details.

Bye

[ottuzzi]

Hi waldohoover,

   reading OP I see:

• 1 Share @ ฿2.5 = 20GH/s hashing power + 3% hosting fee
• Each share entitles the owner to 1/40 of the BTC proceeds from a HashFast Baby Jet

But if a Baby Jet is a 400GH/s and you divide it in 40 shares than every share i 10GH/s: what am I missing?

Thanks
Bye
Piero

This is a previous question of mine that went unanswered: I need this response too to cast my vote.

Thanks
Bye

[ottuzzi]

If we do a cash refund - it will be 5600 USD split up.

If I personally try to continue to get a full BTC refund from HF you would receive ALL of your BTC minus my 3%.

If we do legal action (which would be for a full BTC refund) you would receive your BTC that you paid minus 40% for legal fees than 3% fee from me.

So,

   you are asking if I want:
* 420$ as to be expected in option 1)
* 9BTC-3%  as to be expected in option 2) but quite unlikely
* 9BTC-40%-3% (about 5BTC)  as to be expected in option 3)

I'm not considering wait for mining devices... they already fooled us once...

Put this way it seems the choice is obvious
Am I missing something?

Thanks for your fast reply
Thanks for your work
Bye

[itod]

Hi,

   just to be clear: let's suppose we ask for full refund aka 5.600$.
I bought shares for 9BTCs that at time was about 100$ (let's say 100$ for brevity) per BTC: should I expect a final refund from waldohoover for 900$?
Or, as I bought 3 shares of 40 in total (7,5%), should I expect 7,5% of 5.600$ (that is about 420$)?
I cannot vote without knowing these details.

Bye

Your question is confusing because 5.600$ is not a full refund, it's a refund amount HF is offering. The other part of your calculation looks correct. If we agree to HF terms for a refund and get them in BTC, in your case you've paid 9 BTC for 7.5% and you will get around 0.5 BTC back, depending on the BTC/US$ rate at the day of the refund. In this moment you would get back from HF 1/18 of what you've paid. It's obvious why we must be crazy if we accept the refunds that HF is offering to us.

[piecinitup]

Voted for Legal action.  Does anyone know the thread where the guy posted about this lawyer.  Like who is working with him exactly?

[id10tothe9]

ok I posted this reply on the voting thread, but since the discussion seems to be going on here I'll repost it here to avoid a "disscussion-fork" 

"does the option of legal action mean the guy who wants to take 40% of whatever we get back or are there other legal options possible?
because as much as I want to take the legal action way, paying 40% feels like being ripped off again and I don't want that either.
"

it seems to me from last WH's answer that we only have the 40% guy as the legal option, could somebody please elaborate on that, why can't we do something else? we have that HF email where they said they'll pay BTC back that must give us some good legal argument to work with?

[id10tothe9]

also what about the HF ROI guarantee thing, that they would provide more hashing power in case of a delay to guarantee a positive ROI for their customers? (not sure about the details but I remember such a thing)
after all I think it's also not too wise to just dismiss HF as a company and assume they will never deliver, even if they did a bad job up to now, but their chips seem to be ready now. what if we can get the miners plus additional hashing power. if we get 50% of the btc back through that option it would be better than all the other options incl. the 40% fee legal option.
especially that HF probably doesn't have enough $ or enough btc for refund, but they should have enough hashing power to give their customers as a compensation, if they are willing to do so.

[3rac3]

I would like to see more than 2 developer units to be delivered to even remotely think about getting the miners.

Difficulty is going berserk. In 2 months 400 gh will give you about 1btc a month. Hf would have to really try harder than current terms of mpp.

[itod]

especially that HF probably doesn't have enough $ or enough btc for refund, but they should have enough hashing power to give their customers as a compensation, if they are willing to do so.

This is wishful thinking, you can be positive they are not willing to do so. HF official explicitly said in the main thread that they've upgraded MPP twice already (from chips to boards, and from starting on the day of the delivery to starting on Oct 31st) and that they will not do anything more than that. They are company in serious troubles with diminishing reputation that will have problems keeping their head above the water, giving anything for free instead of selling it is the last thing on their minds.

[beavertank]

ok I posted this reply on the voting thread, but since the discussion seems to be going on here I'll repost it here to avoid a "disscussion-fork" 

"does the option of legal action mean the guy who wants to take 40% of whatever we get back or are there other legal options possible?
because as much as I want to take the legal action way, paying 40% feels like being ripped off again and I don't want that either.
"

it seems to me from last WH's answer that we only have the 40% guy as the legal option, could somebody please elaborate on that, why can't we do something else? we have that HF email where they said they'll pay BTC back that must give us some good legal argument to work with?

It may be possible to find other lawyers who would accept a lower contingency amount, or a lawyer who would take it on an hourly basis rather than contingency, but either way it's unlikely that we'd find as well thought of a lawyer willing to take just our case and even more unlikely that we'd find such a person willing to do so for a lower contingency fee.

Also, finding another lawyer would mean WH would have to take the time to search out other lawyers and spend time interviewing them to find one that's good/willing to take the case.

Honestly, our best bet from a lawyering up perspective is to go with the guy that has already been found. He seems like a good attorney, and we have enough people willing to go in together that he's willing to take the case. A 40% contingency fee is a little high, but not unreasonably so. I'd prefer lower too, but it represents our best chance of getting the most possible return out of HF.

[AstralWonder]

I'd definitely vote for the lawyer option.

If we take the first option of getting a few dollars back, that's like getting nothing back at all (10% of what we paid for!).
If we take the option of just asking and waiting Hashfast to return our money, we'll get nowhere for years. Both these options are bad because we'll either get a tiny bit of money back or no money back at all. Remember how Hashfast was supposed to ship 3 or 4 months ago and still haven't shipped? Imagine how many years or centuries the refund option will take.

That leaves us with the only option of getting a lawyer and initiating a class action lawsuit against Hashfast who has scammed its customers. Hashfast is still taking orders and they should have cash/bitcoin because of their new orders. If they go bankrupt, we're screwed either way.

I paid 21.5 btc for 7 shares out of 20 shares, so I'd be losing almost $20k potentially if we take the first and second option. I imagine everyone else is facing a similar scenario.

[g83]

So i think now mostly all of us voted for the lawyer and nobody wants to take the offered refund in dollars. How do we continue now and when can we expect the lawyer to get a result?

[AstralWonder]

So i think now mostly all of us voted for the lawyer and nobody wants to take the offered refund in dollars. How do we continue now and when can we expect the lawyer to get a result?

Yeah. Any update waldo?

[itod]

I shot an email to the lawyer who is doing the 40% but seems that went unanswered.

I'm not sure if that has to do with senseless now dropping his attack on HashFast and not pursuing that..

Can you please clarify witch lawyer, we can contact forum member who introduced him to the forum for clarification why he haven't responded.

I have received 2 separate responses now from HF regarding our full refund which ends up saying:

"We have received your refund request."

-HF

We should never, ever, request any kind of refund, not without the full vote of group buy members. Many of us (for instance me at least three times, at least a 3 weeks before the Dec 31st, and others) warned you not to request any kind of refund because HF will cheat us with US$ refunds. You've ignored all our warnings and posts, and requested the refund against our will. It shows you don't give a fuck about our Bitcoins, it was not your money, wasn't it? Now we will not receive neither the miners nor our BTC back, and we may not be able to do anything about it because HF has a refund request sent by you. You have openly broken the rules you've posted in the opening post:

In case of non-delivery:

• I (waldohoover) take no responsibility for the possibility that HashFast does not deliver. I (waldohoover) have done what I consider a thorough due diligence but as we all know, you can never 100% guarantee anything when it comes to pre-orders.
• Refunds will be given in case of non-delivery less 3% for management of the Group Buy.
• This group buy will be refunded if the miners are not delivered- share holders can elect to wait further.

You haven't given us a chance to protect our interest and wait further, against what you've promised in the opening post and group buy rules. Just to let you know I hold you responsible for this.

[3rac3]

I'm a member of all GB organised by waldo. He always works towards benefit of the GB members.

The whole situation is f***ed up and the only one who is responsible for that mess is HF.

Use common sense, common.

[itod]

Calm yourself, kid. If you want to to take the vinegar route over honey, by all means do, lets see where that gets you.

And by full refund that means full BTC refund I have been requesting.. we can EASILY get a USD refund right now- that is NOT what I have been requesting. Why on earth would you even think that?

Have no idea why do you think I'm a kid, I'm much older than you. Who said I thought you've requested a US$ refund? I've told you that you were not authorized to ask any kind of refund without our vote. Who gave you the right to ask for a BTC refund when you were warned again and again not to do that because HF is just waiting for a excuse not to ship the miners & MPP? You've done that just to get all this away from yourself, as I've said it's not your money so you just don't care. The quote you gave: "I reserve the right to make any changes to the above in favor of each investor’s best interest." - how is getting US$ refund translating to each investors best interest?

You seem not to get the simple fact: It was obvious a month before the Dec 31st deadline there would be no full BTC refunds. Against everybody best judgment and our warnings, and without putting it to a vote, you've requested any kind of refund. Who gave you the right to do that?

[3rac3]

Calm yourself, kid. If you want to to take the vinegar route over honey, by all means do, lets see where that gets you.

And by full refund that means full BTC refund I have been requesting.. we can EASILY get a USD refund right now- that is NOT what I have been requesting. Why on earth would you even think that?

Have no idea why do you think I'm a kid, I'm much older than you. Who said I thought you've requested a US$ refund? I've told you that you were not authorized to ask any kind of refund without our vote. Who gave you the right to ask for a BTC refund when you were warned again and again not to do that because HF is just waiting for a excuse not to ship the miners & MPP? You've done that just to get all this away from yourself, as I've said it's not your money so you just don't care. The quote you gave: "I reserve the right to make any changes to the above in favor of each investor’s best interest." - how is getting US$ refund translating to each investors best interest?

You seem not to get the simple fact: It was obvious a month before the Dec 31st deadline there would be no full BTC refunds. Against everybody best judgment and our warnings, and without putting it to a vote, you've requested any kind of refund. Who gave you the right to do that?

It seems you have some authority issues. I am not sure if it's a right forum to deal with that...

[itod]

Calm yourself, kid. If you want to to take the vinegar route over honey, by all means do, lets see where that gets you.

And by full refund that means full BTC refund I have been requesting.. we can EASILY get a USD refund right now- that is NOT what I have been requesting. Why on earth would you even think that?

Have no idea why do you think I'm a kid, I'm much older than you. Who said I thought you've requested a US$ refund? I've told you that you were not authorized to ask any kind of refund without our vote. Who gave you the right to ask for a BTC refund when you were warned again and again not to do that because HF is just waiting for a excuse not to ship the miners & MPP? You've done that just to get all this away from yourself, as I've said it's not your money so you just don't care. The quote you gave: "I reserve the right to make any changes to the above in favor of each investor’s best interest." - how is getting US$ refund translating to each investors best interest?

You seem not to get the simple fact: It was obvious a month before the Dec 31st deadline there would be no full BTC refunds. Against everybody best judgment and our warnings, and without putting it to a vote, you've requested any kind of refund. Who gave you the right to do that?

It seems you have some authority issues. I am not sure if it's a right forum to deal with that...

What are you talking about? There's nothing personal against Waldo in all this. He just notified us today that HF confirmed his refund request, and I'm responding to it. I'm shocked he made any kind of refund request, he always said he didn't do any formal request, and now we now that *our* refund request is accepted.

[3rac3]

Just got this reply from Ray (lawyer):

Ray E. Gallo
10:45 AM (0 minutes ago)

to me

Yes.  We are taking these cases. They must be arbitrated individually under the consumer rules.  If you paid in BTC, have evidence of that, and timely cancelled your order and demanded a BTC refund in writing, we can help. Email me your contact information and order confirmations and we will send you a fee agreement.  We will work on contingency and take 40% or the fee award, whichever is greater.  We will try to recover your fees (and if so, we’ll take those instead of the 40%), but there is no clear basis so an award of fees is not likely.
 
Call me to discuss.
 
Ray
 

Kicking HF ass is something I would like the most. No matter which way. They thought that there is a place for 2nd bfl and they need to be proven wrong.

Of course I still want my 40 btc or so back. Even 60%.