Hence, this is why the framing of the information....seems a bit off.
Be careful. If you point out inconsistencies and ambiguities in BFL's announcements Josh will start rageflaming you. Spoken from experience. I would like you to elucidate on a point related to clock buffer and electromagnetic noise. Question: Do you remember when one BFL representative started to mention FCC requirement for certifying a device and various other certification required for producing a device that complies with various international regulations? Background 0: A BFL representative when asked about their own compliance with such regulations went on record to state that their device was currently in testing. (presumably at a lab) Background 1: Later, after that debacle, when asked if there were any functional prototype devices, the BFL representative stated there were none at that time. (November) Question: How can a device be sent to the FCC labs for testing and certification if there is no working and functional prototype?Is that the reason why additional clock buffers were added? To reduce noise? (Admittedly, this is unlikely, but possible) Note: I presume that the clock buffer are/were to reduce noise localized to the chip. But I have to ask, was the noise leaking further than the immediate area of the chip? Did it fail FCC certification or inspection? Further, if there are no prototypes, then what was sent in late October for evaluation? [Speculation] |
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Hence, this is why the framing of the information....seems a bit off.
Be careful. If you point out inconsistencies and ambiguities in BFL's announcements Josh will start rageflaming you. Spoken from experience. I will be careful. What you have received though is hardly comparable to what I may have received. Theymos (and Tom of bASIC) has an inkling as to what I mean. Other than that, no comment. |
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Yeah, and BFL will still be shipping before bASIC. As for cheaper per G/h, good luck with that, but you already knew that BFL would match competitive offerings. Enjoy your 200w piece o' junk that is obsolete before it even ships! Oh, tell me again how much power or even what kind of power connector bASIC is going to be using? Do you get a PSU with your unit? No? You mean you have to BUY a PSU, cables, etc...? Really? So I guess that $1069.00 isn't really the REAL cost of running a bASIC is it? Yay for hidden costs! At least BFL is up front and honest about the cost of a unit. I hope for the sake of BFL customers that turns out to be true...unlike nearly everything else you've said with regard to BFL shipping dates. Since when is BFL up front or honest about anything? If you guys had told everyone in September that October shipping was a fairy tale, and the reality was a "fuzzy" hopefully maybe January shipping date, how many would've cancelled then? Now that's some HUGE hidden cost. I have a dozen PSUs on hand thanks, not worried about it, but I appreciate your concern. Actually, most GPU miner would. So the argument falls flat on it's face for those types of customers.  Perhaps your concern would be better utilized getting your own very late product out the door? Oh that's right you said January all along...cept when you didn't. 
Then promptly, they released information that they would not receive their first batch until Mid December. Then revised the revision again to make it sometime in January. (A full 30 day delay) Now we have a BFL representative that says their chips were not ready due to the adding of clock buffers. Recently implemented to reduce noise on the chip as well as aid in the overclocking of the chip. Following on the heels of an announcement that they will be revising their chips packaging to include metal rather than plastic components. --------------------------- What does this spell out to you? It spells out to me that shipping is not their first priority. It spells out to me that revising their hardware for competitive sake (at the cost of time) is their first priority. Counter-intuitive to what the two BFL representatives stated not more than a few days ago. Hence, this is why the framing of the information....seems a bit off. If someone were polite enough to ask a BFL representative if they were indeed changing their chip to a metal packaging on their FIRST revision, then that would clearly indicate their chip is still being revised and that even the January date is an optimistic sign. Later on, if this speculation is spot on, they will release information that thier chip is actually not 60Gh/s but something higher. (Probably at the cost of more electrical juice, a beefier power adapter and a few months time.) Keep in mind, if they are having a hard time sourcing High AMP wall adapters...I can only imagine how much harder it will be if this speculation is spot on. |
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Nope, but you knew that. Worked about as well as FIFTH WEEK OF NOVEMBER worked for your customers. I only ordered in mid October however. Additionally since bASIC01 is SO much cheaper per Gh( 45.8% less) than your company's overpriced products I'm good thanks.  Now if you guys could just drop the ball ONE more time...CHA-CHING! You can do it Josh! The facts hurt, huh? Edit, by the way, they already did. The new date for reciept of BFL ASIC (not shipping out to customers, mind you) has now been revised from Dec 11 to later in the month. |
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BFL locked up pre-orders based on a fairy tale shipping date they had zero chance of achieving. This is the second time they've done this with a product launch. How much damage has been done to Avalon, BTCFPGA, and ASICMiner by this tactic? Pre-orders paid for in BTC 6 months ago? What's the real cost of a BFL Single SC to those miners? Locked up pre-orders? Really? Can you point me to a single person who hasn't gotten a refund that has asked for it? No? Ok, then you lied again. Quite the habit with you. lol yer a hoot.  Why must you always play dumb. You know as well as I do those guys are trapped. If they cancel their orders and request a refund then what? Back of the bus with the competition? Their options suck, because they trusted you when you said it'd be different this time, but it's not different this time is it Josh? Same fairy tale shipping dates pushed back a couple weeks at a time. Keep them hooked as long as possible because their refund option becomes less and less appealing over time. Oh but it's not BFL's fault, they're acting with integrity(obviously) and prowess, it's just that they're among the least lucky companies in the history of business. Please. Aye, Plan B is as bad as Plan Z. Well unless your second option ships before BFL. That would be the ultimate act of humiliation for that company. |
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No one paid $2652 for btc for a single, but the equivalent of $1299. Bitpay gave bfl $ for btc, so $1299 is what bfl got. If currencies going up/down would have to be compensated, would you pay up if your earlier payed btc's value would have went to $2? I don't know how Avalon and btcfpga suffered, they have more orders than they can fill atm, hence the second batches.
On the part of Avalon this is false. They only took in 300 and there is currently no second batch. They took in only 300 to make sure (they said) they could deliver in a shorter time frame than other vendors. With BTCFPGA, they may start a second batch as their initial batch is 30% (or thereabouts) not filled with paying customers. BTCFPGA is not all that different than BFL in their order sizes. "BFL locked up pre-orders based on a fairy tale shipping date they had zero chance of achieving." -Agreed about them fairytale dates and knowing before they would not happen, unless they had last minute major fuck-ups with those asics, but they deny or they won't tell. Locked up pre-orders/money, no, at any moment people can, and always could, step out.
I think the warning sign is when employees start to bail from the company. At that point I would worry that the whole thing will fall apart. |
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****I**** have room to complain... But I am NOT.
I await the falling of the chips. Settle down, everyone. Karma will distribute properly and justice will ultimately be done, on the this matter as well as on the most grandiose scale.
As above, so below.
+10 Good point. |
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Question:
Will the Avalon Devices meet basic FCC requirements? (or any other European/Eurasian required certifications in various nations)
I ask just to be sure there won't be any import/certified issues.
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@ Bitsyncom (Yifu G.)
Thank you for identifying the individuals in the picture.
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I think the demonstration event has been mentioned at the first (around late Sep. ?). but please let Yifu to re-explain it later, he is at the meeting in Macau
 Which one is you? Better question: Who is each individual at the table? What do they each do for Avalon? |
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yeah i was thinking to myself how funny it would be if all three came out with the same rebranded chinese machines at around the same time, haha
any possibility that Avalon is the dark horse in this race? what's with the 600 w requirement though?
It is 400w now. Probably lower by the next update. One can hope! |
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Can we move on to a conversation that has less angry, meaningless bickering.
Sure. So far every asic biz is off track except avalon. They get another month until we can flame them. Yes yes, Maybe I'll announce we ship December 1 st, Then push it back to Jan 14 th and use the argument LOOK! we are still less delayed than the competition! But, I will not. p.s. Our promised shipping deadline for all 300 units is actually End of Feb, 2013 mostly due to unavoidable Chinese New Year. The current plan is to ship all 300 before Chinese New Year starts, however a small portion may not make it, but will be finished shipping before Feb ends. So if you want to flame, you may have to wait until then Something tells me the community will never get that chance... |
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Hi Everyone,
We've been very busy recently, unfortunately I couldn't catch up with the forums. There is a correction to be made: Chips are not and were not flawed. We decided to add certain clock buffers to improve noise-resistance and possibly increase frequency even further. The improve in noise resistance was our real goal (average frequency increase across a full wafer can be a bi-product). The decision was made to increase the near 100% chance of success even more. We'll keep you posted. If you had any questions, please let us know.
Regards,
Nasser
Okay, so 'BFL-Josh' says 'There was a flaw in the chip that needed to be addressed' .. and now there isn't? Get on the same page, people. Thats marketing speak and damage limitation. I read it as voltage leakage (which is, as i understand it a risk on 65nm process). Either way it means chips are not in full production yet and issues are still being ironed out. A wise man has just spoken! |
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Can we move on to a conversation that has less angry, meaningless bickering.
Sure. So far every asic biz is off track except avalon. They get another month until we can flame them. Horay? (!) |
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Kanoi said he has not heard anything.. No updates.
We should hire a resident nutjob to make like "Signs" as to when the BFL ASICs will ship. Then walk around with a sign in their Avatar. The first sign will be when Kano and Yochdog appear at BFL. The second sign is when BFL begins to gloat about their (actual) hardware. The third sign, is when people receive emails to the effect that they must select their shipping service as a final check and confirmation. Until these three are not fulfilled (he says in a Biblical tone) it shall not be! |
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That's why I think they changed the story.
If they had a working chip they would be pushing it in everyones face... They would get more orders because their the first to show a working prototype.
But nothing but stories and delays..
Why not get the miner dev's an underclocked working prototype so we have working software for these ASIC's?
Anything they show by video will be immediately dismissed as a fake. If they send early release devices to a few operators, everyone will be howling about how unfair it is that a few inner-circle people get to use the hardware while the difficulty is still low. BFL needs to invite a BTC-savvy reporter in to review their pre-release hardware, someone with enough of a reputation to be widely perceived as legit. You mean like Yochdog and Kano? Hows that going? |
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I actually read that forum. There is a little immaturity here and there. Though, most of the rest of the content on that forum is pretty much normal stuff.
I hope customers whom spend thousands of dollars (or BTC equivalent) are not now considered practicing immaturity...
(I hope that is not the implication anyway)
You have to expect there will be irate people. They paid money, they didn't get their product, everything develops from there. It is human.
I don't see the immaturity at the level that an ignore feature is needed. Then again, everyone thinks differently.
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I wish them well, as I too would like to see them be the first out the door with ASICs.
Still, I wonder if they have a working prototype at this point. I understand their want for secrecy. I just want to know how far they have advanced to date. A working prototype is a very good sign.
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Question:
Does your team [Avalon] currently possess a prototype that is currently functional at this time? (not a simulation, but a working prototype?)
Second Follow up Question:
If so, does the device work as expected? Are there any known flaws or issues with the underlying hardware at this time?
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Selling 1x32G 1x72G Order #642, DHL + INT shipping.
Mining profits were supposed to pay for Feb wedding. Not gonna happen for me now.
@ Psi Sorry to hear about the real world consequences of your wedding. |
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