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421  Economy / Speculation / Re: The Four Phases of Bitcoin Growth on: November 18, 2013, 05:07:31 AM
Hello all,

As I've been enjoying the recent rally, I've been trying to think about the big picture to keep from getting an itchy sell finger.

I think there are four phases of growth of bitcoin, from its creation to mass adoption. Here they are and the price ranges for each.

Phase 1. Libertarian Utopians and Techno-Geeks.
Price range: 0 to $250.
Explanation: These are the very early adopters, mostly comprised of two types of people (somewhat overlapping): idealistic folks who believe in the cryptocurrency movement as a way to reduce the power of government and the corrupt banking establishment, and software/web developers and others who are way ahead of the curve on studying and adopting revolutionary new technologies.
Timeline: This phase ended in the spring/summer of 2013.

Phase 2. Hedge Funds and Accredited Investors
Price range: $250 to $2,000.
Explanation: Starting in fall 2013, when bitcoin was in the $100s and $200s, the Bitcoin Investment Trust launched on Second Market, enabling high-net-worth investors to invest in bitcoin more easily and with less risk, through a credible fund. We can expect this kind of investment to keep increasing as more smart money flows in and bitcoin goes up in value over the next several months. Meanwhile, wealthy people in other countries, especially China, are also getting in, since they don't have as many investment opportunities there compared to Americans. This will sustain the momentum. There could be big corrections during this phase, but probably not any huge crashes anymore like what we saw in 2011 and early 2013 -- unless the government steps in and tries to over-regulate bitcoin or some major countries ban it. However, expect there to be at least some increase in government regulation as the big money players will want this because it would be bullish for their investment (i.e. making a safer environment for bitcoin to become part of the mainstream financial landscape). Some of the uber-libertarian types may take their profits and get out in this phase, as they discover that bitcoin is not going to be a way to overthrow the government, but instead that making money will take precedence over ideological motives for most people involved in bitcoin from this stage onward.
Timeline: This phase began in mid to late 2013 and will continue until the first bitcoin ETF is launched on the mainstream stock market, perhaps sometime before the end of 2014.

Phase 3. Ordinary Investors
Price range: $2,000 to $10,000.
Explanation: When the first bitcoin ETF is approved and available for trading on the New York Stock Exchange or Nasdaq -- most likely the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust -- that will be like bitcoin's IPO. It will enable the average person to feel comfortable buying bitcoin in a way they are familiar with, i.e. through their mainstream online brokerage account, and they will be able to use their 401(k) funds to do so. This will open up a huge amount of new capital to flow into bitcoin, driving up the price by several more times in only one or two years. Bitcoin will be marketed to ordinary investors as "the new gold," a "digital gold" which is a better store of value than the traditional metal, and it will likely capture an ever-increasing market share of investors looking for an alternative to gold, for a few percent of their portfolio. It's quite likely that at some point in this phase we'll switch to using mBTC (millibitcoins) as the unit, because this will make it easier for people psychologically to invest smaller amounts of money and will set the stage for more user-friendly and widespread use of bitcoin in commerce.
Timeline: This phase probably starts sometime in 2014 and goes at least a couple of years.

Phase 4. Mass Adoption for Commerce
Price range: Something over $10,000. Who knows how much higher it goes, but eventually it will level off and grow more slowly.
Explanation: Once bitcoin has established itself as a totally mainstream investment and store of value, owned by hundreds of millions of people, and the price growth has slowed down to something less than a "hot tech stock" and more like a steady 10-20% increase per year, then people will start using bitcoin en masse for commercial transactions. Of course at this point the transactions will be in mBTC, since BTC would be extremely cumbersome by then for making normal purchases (people will prefer a unit that is closer to the value of a dollar or a euro, rather than dealing with amounts like 0.0001 to buy a book on Amazon or whatever). I suspect that mass use of bitcoin for commerce won't really materialize until the phases of rapid price gain have ended -- until then, bitcoin will be for hoarding, as a premier store-of-value asset. But eventually the point of saturation will be reached and people will feel like the era of massive gains are over and they'll feel more comfortable actually spending bitcoin.
Timeline: This phase will probably start anywhere from 2015 to 2018, depending on many factors -- and assuming that everything goes according to the outline above in the previous phases, without any major bumps in the road.

So, what do you think of this phase-by-phase prediction?

I like and agree with this a lot.  Maybe off by a few half orders of magnitude on certain phases, but pretty close to watch I'm expecting.  As long as bitcoin infrastructure makes it easier to be adopted by the masses, there is no reason that this won't ensue and the price skyrocket over 10k a coin.
422  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin to hit 1000? on: November 18, 2013, 05:01:47 AM
But remember theres always big drop coming after a big raise

Not necessarily, but yeah hopefully there is a correction because it helps the longevity of bitcoin.
423  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: First time poster, long time lurker on: November 18, 2013, 03:44:42 AM
Also been hanging on the background and reading posts for awhile and now registered. Have to write this one message anyway so I can post elsewhere also so was just thinking to write down something while I'm a bit stoned. Heard about bitcoin first time at the fall of 2011 but since it seemed still quite complicated I never managed to buy any. Though wish I would have, they were something like 5€ piece. Spotted it again in the news somewhere around october and thought to start buying in, now have around 4BTC. Hopefully this will be the thing that ensures my well being for the years to come at some point. I'm setting my goal to owning something like the magical 21 bitcoins but we'll see if I manage to do that before the price gets out of my range. Anyway one more week left and then I leave this cold scandinavian country for the winter and leave my coins storaged in a cold wallet for the winter so no stupid decisions can be made.

Let us all be rich one day. Amen

We are rich as long as we have our freedom in currency, and bitcoin gives us that.
424  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: we just hit 550 USD on: November 18, 2013, 03:22:29 AM
Which one will come first, 1000 or 500 ?


I hope 500 for a chance to see some capitulation.  But, then again I hope for 1000 to see some real exuberance in the community (not like there is any now...)
425  Economy / Speculation / Re: The Bitcoin Crash Has begun. No worries on: November 18, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
Solid necro thread, but in reality most people are wrong on predictions.... Don't trust anyone lol
426  Other / Archival / Re: Best bitcoin faucets? on: November 18, 2013, 03:17:35 AM
There are a lot of faucets, but if you really want to make some coin there are signature campaigns that pay based on number of constructive posts.  Check the services section for ways to gain coin by doing everyday things.
427  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: how does coinbase make money? on: November 18, 2013, 03:15:52 AM
Hello,

I just purchased some bitcoins from coinbase.

My question...
If I sold a bitecoin at $500 through coinbase, where does that bitcoin go? Coinbase then deposits $500 into my account. They have to sell the coin(I assume) and what happens if the bitcoin goes down to $490? Does coinbase take the hit?

Thanks

Don't worry, they're making plenty of money...
428  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: First post. Only been into BTC for a month, but I love it here. on: November 18, 2013, 03:15:01 AM
Just wanted to share with you guys. I love this place, and Bitcoin too. Primarily posting because I have a business idea and want to work up the credentials to post on other boards. =) Hope to talk to many of you soon!

-- abarns

Yeah, bitcoin is awesome, stay a while and enjoy the freedom from other currencies.
429  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: we just hit 550 USD on: November 18, 2013, 03:12:26 AM
Maybe we've hit the exponential growth on the S curve...
430  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Price Hits $500, a 50x Increase in Just 12 Months on: November 18, 2013, 01:59:30 AM
Yeah what's going on right now is just unreal....
431  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Where can I purchase $100,000+ in bitcoin consistently and cheaply? on: November 18, 2013, 01:58:54 AM
I use btc-e and have no problems.  Coinbase would be difficult with the 10 max btc per day before verified and only 50 after that.  Mtgox is a little high in trading fees and I've heard bitstamp is solid.
432  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I Love Bitcoin on: November 18, 2013, 01:51:23 AM
Yep, it is awesome but has destryed many lives Sad
And will destroy many more businesses, greedy corporations, and corrupt governments.  Karma?

We can only hope!  I think everyone is just trying to gain more bitcoins at this point.
433  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: WTF Cointerra on: November 18, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Real question is are they going to ship on-time or not...
434  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Next difficulty ~670,000,000 ? on: November 18, 2013, 01:49:13 AM
I'm thinkin 715m or about 17% increase.
435  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin to hit 1000? on: November 18, 2013, 12:50:51 AM
The question is will it be during this hype bubble or another? I don't think anyone can say for sure... but its certainly possible to happen this time.  Many days it is rising more than $50 in 24 hour period; it's an exciting time to be alive.
436  Economy / Auctions / Re: I'd like to sell 100+ Asicminer direct stocks, anyone who knows how to trade? on: November 17, 2013, 09:33:02 PM
What price are you selling at?
437  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 17, 2013, 09:15:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FADVigvXbXE seriously.... can we get much higher?
438  Economy / Services / Re: Butter Bot!: New Bitstamp, BTC-E, and MtGox EMA Trading Platform on: November 17, 2013, 05:33:03 PM
I may be interested again in this bot when it will add :

- Profit calculated in BTC
- BTCchina
- Never trade on loss (option if btc price drops x% sell)



This is included, it's called stop loss...
439  Economy / Speculation / Re: How much of a bubble is this? on: November 17, 2013, 05:26:18 PM
Once exchanges start going up $100+ a day, then we are is serious bubble mode.  If it gets to that point I would seriously consider selling.  But, then again I'm just trading on EMA's so it doesn't really matter either way.
440  Economy / Speculation / Re: How much of a bubble is this? on: November 17, 2013, 03:44:05 PM
I opt for a crash. Price is purely dictated by chinese market. There was no adoption, no major company support and still the price trippled in just a month. China goes up and sudenly all other markets follow without thought. If they decide to sell, for whatever reason, whole world will sell in panic.

Coinbase and mtgox are both above btcchina, I'm not sure how they're following china.  If anything currently china is following the usd/btc.
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