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4281  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 06:49:10 PM
Except for a few who can use bitcoin while traveling abroad, most Chinese cannot use their bitcoins as currency, and have no expectation of doing so.  So, why would they put their real money into bitcoins, and hold on to them?

Two reasons come to mind:  They want to invest in the technology, or they want to hedge against a change in government.  Governments often change.  Fiat currencies, historically, have always failed.  Just as they cannot use gold in commerce, so too they cannot use bitcoin in commerce.  Just as they buy gold as a store of value, so too they buy bitcoin as a store of value.  Both are free of counterparty risk, unlike fiat currencies.  The Chinese national appetite for gold proves that they understand this well, and act upon it, en masse, practically.



Oh and another reason I can think of... if Cryptos grow and grow, and the rest of the world adopts them, and the sky does not fall in around everyones ears, then in two years time do you think China will just sit it out? I do not, they will simply flip flop.. and change their mind...  "never" is not as long in Bitcoin time as it is in real time...  

Two things people seem to have trouble with exponential function and extrapolating into the future rather than thinking linearly.

Good chance China changes its mind, sure they will never allow at least in the near to mid term future for crypto it to replace the Yuan, big woop, so what who cares, same as all the rest of fiat..  cryptos do not have to , that is not even an argument at this stage... things do not even have to be priced and labelled in Bitcoin..but being able to use it as a payment method and convert the yuan cost to Btc and back... yeah if the rest of the world goes with Cryptos, I can imagine that the chinese will allow that sooner or later...

So the short answer is another reason a Chinese man may be happy to hodl coins = time = things change - and tey may well change in Btc's favour.. not such an insane reason to keep and hold coin.

Plus the Macau party boys wil be allllll over it..


4282  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 02:47:58 PM
Also... as a little side note.. this year everyone I know that is not already a BTC hodler when it comes to their birthdays or Christmas presents I will be setting them up wallets on their androids or PC and a paper wallet too, and I will chuck a $100 of BTC in their wallets and that will be them..  and then I will poke and prod them until they do likewise "have you set your gran up a wallet yet?"

Another plus, basically I just did all my Christmas shopping for 2014 the other day : )  

Have you set your granma up a wallet yet?  I did and they are both dead - but they have still got f'kin Bitcoin wallets with a few BTC in them

No excuses ! Wink not even death.
4283  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 02:31:02 PM
The entire market wasted around two months on building illusions around the Chinese market.
When it was clear that soon there won't be much of Chinese market left, then religious zealots kept repeating otherwise. That created a lot of confusion on what will happen in the future and actually slowed down progress in the long run. The uptrend that started in January was fueled by pure stupidity.
The right thing would have been to drop the price and then plan another rise with opening new exchanges in new geographical locations. It would have been the normal life-cycle of bitcoin and the market would already be starting another uptrend. But with all these illusions and false hopes, we will probably see this downtrend last a lot longer then it should have been. The "get-rich-quick Choo Choo" people here have no vision or strategic thinking whatsoever.
And new payment options like overstock mean nothing to the price of bitcoin. If anyone buys bitcoin to buy from overstock, then it will be converted back to fiat right away. New payment options like this will more probably have an negative effect on the price, since more bitcoins will be converted to $ by older adopters.
New opening markets with the coming of new of gamblers are the only positive news that people should take into account when considering the price.

Do you own Bitcoin? (just outta interest)

I owned bitcoins till the start of December. After it got clear that there is no future in China, I sold. I bought back in about two weeks ago, partially because I was intoxicated and bored behind the computer. Luckly sold couple of hours later with 803$.
Right now, I don't see myself buying back anytime soon. When I'll buy back in, then It will probably be buying some altcoin, not bitcoin.
Right now the only thing that keeps the bitcoin price from an ugly collapse are the thousands of miners who have invested thousands of dollars in their ASIC equipment. They are the ones who are holding and keeping the supply tight, because selling with this price means no ROI. But they can only hold the price for so long, because the electric bills are piling and their wives or girlfriends are yelling at them on why aren't the noisy machines producing any money like promised.

My faith in bitcoin is in a downtrend while my faith in cryptos and privatized monetary systems in general keeps steady.

Fair enough...  I hear you... but the whole buying in and selling thing is not for me personally, as for me there is no point.. my strategy thus far negates the need

 I am not a miner never have been.. but I have been buying for a long while,  I buy dips and trade alts to increase my BTC, and I also have invested in an alt or two, and I actually now take most of my wages in BTC, and I spend it where I can... and I know a good group who are all doing the same... I am trying to get more and more local businesses to accept BTC and I am in the process of looking to intergrate taking payments in BTC for the business I currently manage. Most of my friends are now BTC hodlers and buyers and only one of them a miner-  though I am talking to my friends about setting up some nodes.   Also I do not think guys with angry girlfriends running a few little rigs in their little flats are propping up the market... there are guys with underground caves being powered by geothermal power right now with asic farms that would make your eyes water.. and I do not even think that is what is propping up the market... but assuming that they are... sure money is not endless but the players coming into the game with those set ups, and the ones already established in the game they gotz funding...  most of the players coming into the game (not just in mining) now have gots funding and deep deep wallets and are playing a long term game...  I am also playing a long term game... and the price movement of the past month, few months does not surprise me...  the market is going to decide for sure... I still see the fundamentals as strong... I guess we will have to wait and see .... for me the key is not price, not at all the key is adoption rate and user figures, can the network growth do its thing for a few more cycles? I think that the money coming into the ecosystem at this point is banking on YES, which is why they are coming into the game and coming with depe pockets and will do all they can to make it work, which gives me confidence... and if this remains true and we do get another few cycles of the network effect play out. then to me the long term fundamantals still look good.. not certain but good... and that would mean another set of parabolic price rises as time goes by.

I am mostly interested in adoption and use rates not the price.

One of the greatest failings of humanity is its failure to understand the exponential function.

(That being said BTC has in my mind over the next 1-3 years got a binary outcome)
4284  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 01:21:46 PM
The entire market wasted around two months on building illusions around the Chinese market.
When it was clear that soon there won't be much of Chinese market left, then religious zealots kept repeating otherwise. That created a lot of confusion on what will happen in the future and actually slowed down progress in the long run. The uptrend that started in January was fueled by pure stupidity.
The right thing would have been to drop the price and then plan another rise with opening new exchanges in new geographical locations. It would have been the normal life-cycle of bitcoin and the market would already be starting another uptrend. But with all these illusions and false hopes, we will probably see this downtrend last a lot longer then it should have been. The "get-rich-quick Choo Choo" people here have no vision or strategic thinking whatsoever.
And new payment options like overstock mean nothing to the price of bitcoin. If anyone buys bitcoin to buy from overstock, then it will be converted back to fiat right away. New payment options like this will more probably have an negative effect on the price, since more bitcoins will be converted to $ by older adopters.
New opening markets with the coming of new of gamblers are the only positive news that people should take into account when considering the price.

Do you own Bitcoin? (just outta interest)
4285  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 01:03:13 PM
I wonder sometimes if people on this forum would like to post onto say the Haiti expat forum and say things like :

Ha ha bros I hear another earthquake is coming ; ) you are going to lose all of your stuff !!! ha ha  oh lolz...

I really hope an earthquake comes... I really do... I want you all to get burned... burned bad... because I am not in Haiti but you are !!!

BURN HAITIANS!!! ha ha .. you are all going to die and when you do I will be here laughing

I hate haiti, and I think anyone in , or from Haiti is an IDIOT who deserves to DIE

Did I mention that I live 5,000 miles away from Haiti, and I have never been, I will never go, and I have zero interest in anything to do with Haiti
apart from watching it BURN !! ha ha you guys are so stupid you all deserve to lose everything you have and for it to ruin you, beause you are a  stupid Haitian

Remember Haitians I will be back several times today , even though I really do not care about Haiti, but I just need to remind you all how stupid I think you are !!! and how much I hope it all goes wrong for you... and I will come back the day after and post the same thing... because
I have nothing better to do with my life, literally nothing... I spend my life just giving people shit on a topic I have no interest in... because that it the kind of guy I am : )

Oh and by the way , have you heard that ALL of Haiti is going to get AIDS tomorrow? and when it does oh how I will laugh..

Seems legit right?





Bitcoin going down is not bad, it is good. The consolidation is necessary for it to form a strong base for commerce, gain new investors, redistribute all of the coins, and get ready for launch again. Bitcoin was going NOWHERE when it was 800-1000. It was just floating up there with no demand/volume, thin books, and millions of coins silently waiting to be sold.

I will admit that some of the ways people present themselves here sound harsh and aggressive like you said. However, the way I read this is that bears are rubbing in the bulls face that they were right after the bulls had insistently bet with the bears that prices were going up. Previously the bulls were on the offensive against bears and insulting bears, and now bears are turning that around back onto the bulls and throwing it in their face. It is a game. I don't think anyone actually wishes anyone any harm.

I agree on most points... I was half kidding, but also half serious... (I am an old PM and FX trader to I know the game)


4286  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
In 2+ years of using crypto, not one of my real life friends has ever posted anything about bitcoin on their Pussbook.

Today DOGE just hit my facebook news feed................. the world is doomed

Where are you from? This DOGE mem is completely unknown in Germany...

Good good... I think you guys are the right guys for the job....  I think that you should track all Doge fans down within German borders, maybe anex a neighbouring country, and build special camps for the Doge fans, and keep them all there, well labelled, and prevent them from any Doge trading.... this would in the meantime until we come up with a longer term fix........ or to coin a phrase.........a final solution.

Wow such bad
Much poor taste
Very could not help myself
Bad joke.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

No seriously... crank that machine back up again and and verboten dem pesky Doge'rs  

DOGECOIN Das ist streng verboten!





Did you mean it to sound like that ?

are you really asking?


I am still thinking you started writing it without thinking of the *** and ended up like that , not that you planned it in advance.

ha ha no I defo 100% planned it in advance... I just for no real reason fancied ribbing zee german a little bit, and having a joking dig at Dogecoin..

its a joke right?

4287  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 12:55:25 PM
In 2+ years of using crypto, not one of my real life friends has ever posted anything about bitcoin on their Pussbook.

Today DOGE just hit my facebook news feed................. the world is doomed

Where are you from? This DOGE mem is completely unknown in Germany...

Good good... I think you guys are the right guys for the job....  I think that you should track all Doge fans down within German borders, maybe anex a neighbouring country, and build special camps for the Doge fans, and keep them all there, well labelled, and prevent them from any Doge trading.... this would in the meantime until we come up with a longer term fix........ or to coin a phrase.........a final solution.

Wow such bad
Much poor taste
Very could not help myself
Bad joke.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

No seriously... crank that machine back up again and and verboten dem pesky Doge'rs  

DOGECOIN Das ist streng verboten!





Did you mean it to sound like that ?

are you really asking?



4288  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 12:53:41 PM
I wonder sometimes if people on this forum would like to post onto say the Haiti expat forum and say things like :

Ha ha bros I hear another earthquake is coming ; ) you are going to lose all of your stuff !!! ha ha  oh lolz...

I really hope an earthquake comes... I really do... I want you all to get burned... burned bad... because I am not in Haiti but you are !!!

BURN HAITIANS!!! ha ha .. you are all going to die and when you do I will be here laughing

I hate haiti, and I think anyone in , or from Haiti is an IDIOT who deserves to DIE

Did I mention that I live 5,000 miles away from Haiti, and I have never been, I will never go, and I have zero interest in anything to do with Haiti
apart from watching it BURN !! ha ha you guys are so stupid you all deserve to lose everything you have and for it to ruin you, beause you are a  stupid Haitian

Remember Haitians I will be back several times today , even though I really do not care about Haiti, but I just need to remind you all how stupid I think you are !!! and how much I hope it all goes wrong for you... and I will come back the day after and post the same thing... because
I have nothing better to do with my life, literally nothing... I spend my life just giving people shit on a topic I have no interest in... because that it the kind of guy I am : )

Oh and by the way , have you heard that ALL of Haiti is going to get AIDS tomorrow? and when it does oh how I will laugh..

Seems legit right?




4289  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 12:31:19 PM
In 2+ years of using crypto, not one of my real life friends has ever posted anything about bitcoin on their Pussbook.

Today DOGE just hit my facebook news feed................. the world is doomed

Where are you from? This DOGE mem is completely unknown in Germany...

Good good... I think you guys are the right guys for the job....  I think that you should track all Doge fans down within German borders, maybe anex a neighbouring country, and build special camps for the Doge fans, and keep them all there, well labelled, and prevent them from any Doge trading.... this would in the meantime until we come up with a longer term fix........ or to coin a phrase.........a final solution.

Wow such bad
Much poor taste
Very could not help myself
Bad joke.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

No seriously... crank that machine back up again and and verboten dem pesky Doge'rs  

DOGECOIN Das ist streng verboten!



4290  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 12:15:24 PM
Dunno, will be interesting to see if malleability fix has a strong enough reaction to reverse direction for some time.
I highly doubt that. Once the bitcoin gets unstuck, people will sell sell sell.

People can only sell sell sell, if some one is going to buy buy buy...

and I will be one of those buy buy buyers...
4291  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 12:10:25 AM
MtGox v2

http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/12/jed-mccaleb/


Alpha testers wanted
http://alphatesters.secretbitcoinproject.com/
4292  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 13, 2014, 12:08:00 AM
Some newses...

http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/12/technology/bitcoin-regulation/

 Wink
4293  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 11:44:26 PM
(I have a theory for a possible cause of those Chinese Slumber trends, will post it later.)


Does it involve a mega whale, or pooled funds, using a high frequency bot?


ohhh I love it when you talk dirty
4294  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 10:31:24 PM

Would not surprise me at all  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
4295  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 09:44:44 PM
Anybody watched this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ziqOxLNfOc

He claims to have worked on Internet currencies for twenty years and with Tim Berners-Lee.


the point is extremely simple....

money is just a system with rules which we all agree on, and choose to collectively believe the imaginary units in this system have value, and now, I no longer agree to believe in a system the majority blindly believes, and thanks to bitcoin i don't have to.

I am 100% with you bro...



I guess I expected more from the guy... with his background..

but he basically gave us this = www.youtube.com/v/NI9z7gMpeE4?version=3&hl=en_US   (this is a rawdogturd video or whatever it is called)

4296  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 08:39:23 PM
Anybody watched this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ziqOxLNfOc

He claims to have worked on Internet currencies for twenty years and with Tim Berners-Lee.

To sum up he says

Myth 1 Bitcoin is inevitable

Myth 2 Bitcoin is anonymous

Myth 3 Bitcoin is "government proof"

Myth 4 Bitcoin is legal

Myth 5 Volatility does not matter

jesus...

Myth 1 Bitcoin is inevitable = Give that man a medal!

Myth 2 Bitcoin is anonymous = Really I could have sworn that it was, a 20 year old told me so, and of course I listen to everything that a 20yr old tells me, and they are the only ones that know about Bitcoin

Myth 3 Bitcoin is "government proof" = Does it need to be? let's wait and see on that one. (that discussion coudl go on for days!)

Myth 4 Bitcoin is legal = Bitcoin is not illegal, at least not anywhere where people are "free"  Let's wait and see on this one too.
 
Myth 5 Volatility does not matter = Nor does it matter much yet, and if Bitcoin does manage to stay around and grow, then the volatility will go down... again, looking at things as they stand today, without taking into account how things will change as it grows, if it does manage to stay around.. but then in the same breath tells us that if Bitcoin grows it will use as much energy as Germany, so he accepts that it could grow, and that it will (in his model) use all this energy, but does not accept that growth would also have meant government acceptance and clear legislation, nor that an increase in adoption and therefore volume and the advent of more established exchanges would provide greater liquidity and therefore less volatility

 
"when I talk to Bitcoin supporters , when I ask questions I do not get answers I get "why are you asking questions, why are you being so negative"
"when I talk to these 20 years olds who are into Bitcoin"

Maybe he is asking the wrong people? I wonder where he takes advice on his love life from..

I do not even know any Bitcoiners in their 20's tbh none at all, they are all 35 +

Also I do not think that having a currency that "bypasses" government means that all government should or needs to be removed, that is bad logic.. you can have a government and a crypto currency that is not linked to the government, and still have a government, they are two different things..  So it is the intentional dishonesty and simple logic mistakes that he displays in this and other arguments that makes me doubt everything that he says...

According to this guy, the only people that have confidence in Bitcoin are 20 years old, and that not one of them would listen to any cogent argument and he has spoken to all of them.  

I wonder if he was in a room person to person with all of us lot, if he would have the same kind of style to his communication, or if he would talk like a normal person, rather than like he is talking down to a room full of stupids.

For a guy with so much smarts... he makes a lot of simplifications and mistakes... blindly so... maybe he is smart enough to understand, but maybe he has to much emotional baggage, he seems to be very caught up in the past.

Bitcoin will be using as much power as Germany... based on? and I imagine projected into a future where nothing changes apart from the electricity used but everything else is based on today's(or even yesterdays) stats?  I wonder how long this guy thought it would take to decode the human genome after 3 years in, things change.

Also when was the last time we had a "good government" doing "good things" that did give this guy feeling of warm fuzziness?

No real surprise that he sees no reason why we should change the banking system or the way government works...  "I went to oxford and studied
computer science"  blah blah .. yup Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale , much much good has come from these places no doubt...lots of very smart good decent down to earth intelligent great people, but also pretty much every douche bag that works for Goldman,Morgan, FED etc etc came from those same places too... most of them born with a silver spoon in their mouths and most of them (not all) are totally clueless about the world outside of their little isolated circle - and are the LAST people I would listen to when they try to tell me "what the rest of the population thinks too"  and which population does he mean? is he speaking for the population of Iceland, Cyprus, or even the population of Russia, China, India,  I think he is speaking for his rather small "population" and I do not even mean a country.

Going to carry on listening to see if he has any good points for sure... but already I dislike his style

Ok just got to him "debunking"  "Bitcoin is anonymous"  ffs...  I am struggling not to press stop at this point...  

And now "we do not know Satoshi is" how can we trust Bitcoin?  

omg...  yeah that degree at oxford did not do this guy much good in the common sense department.

Now the guy is saying that Bitcoin is a brilliant bit of tech, just not defo 100% the future-  the first sensible thing he has said
oh and that the international payment system is a joke... another hit for the guy.

Now talking about e-gold - this guy is showing he is out of the loop... maybe he should have a chat with Ben Lawsky..
Bitcoin is not e-gold... and we are not back then... we are here now in 2014 and things have changed, we have moved on from e-gold in so so many ways...both the tech, the system, the current political and legal attitude and environment,  something that this guy seems to ignore.. and again and again he is very very selective with his arguments... and clearly 100% entrenched in his way of thinking ... I think he will die with the same idea and beliefs he has today.

God now he is talking about how great the USD is , and because it is backed by the government... not one mention , not one about the huge debt, the dwindling purchasing power of the USD, the fact that the whole world is gently playing pass the parcel with USD, that more and more countries are trying to get away from and have less and less trust in the usd petro dollar. Not one mention about how actually Bitcoin and USD could live side by side, nope, in his world it is one or the other, a 20 year old told him so.. By the way I am not bashing the USD but claiming all is fine in the USD world is as false as claiming Bitcoin is 1000% inevitable

Nitro ice cream..and child porn ... and from there to Mt Gox... and from there onto Bitcoin would not survive if Mt Gox goes down.

meh... I am going to struggle through part two and see what else he has to say.... but thus far for a man with all of these supposed smarts
he has not actually said anything very enlightening or new, or actually that smart..in fact either by mistake or not he makes some very glaring over simplifications, if not outright BS, he speaks well, and is obviously a smart guy, but is also a little bit of a dinosaur (or maybe has an agenda)
which is a bit of a surprise...



4297  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 05:19:38 PM



I think you will find this is the best car ever made , by a long shot.

http://cars.mclaren.com/p1.html




let me show u what a fucking car looks like  Cool



yup thats about right  Grin

: ) Nice car

but I will have the P1 thanks : )  

I would give the maserati to my father.. more his style.

4298  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 05:15:49 PM
I think you will find this is the best car ever made , by a long shot.

http://cars.mclaren.com/p1.html

Crude and juvenile.  Noisy as frack.  No room inside.

That is a juvenile critique... if you understand the science and engineering behind the car... it is quite something... maybe in that colour it is crude...
and you know... I do not love the design, but I am not talking about looks (and besides the shape has other more functional uses, the aerodynamics of this car are insane! it is so light and goes so so very fast it needs something to give it weight, step in very cool aerodynamics, not just the spolier)
 I am talking about Drive, performance... and y'know this is a "hybrid" but not one of those for the enviornment hybrids... for other reasons...  this car is insane...  the amount of work that has gone into the engineering it is insane... the performance is insane , there is only 1 other road car that can touch it and that is the Veron.. and well that is not really a car...

The tesla is very cool.... but as cool as it is, is not even in the same league as the P1, even suggesting that it is is a bit daft.

ANNyyyyy way... sorry off topic... back to the fear ... oh the fear.. the panic... the woe... meh



4299  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 04:43:11 PM
This literally made me laugh. Tesla? srsly? Electric cars are no improvement over internal combustion. There's the issue of power density, ya know, batteries- those things that keep catching on fire and exploding in Tesla cars?

You've obviously never driven a Tesla.  Power and Luxury.  Definitely the best car ever made.  I don't care about the tech.  It could run on clubbing baby seals for all I care.

And they burn and explode at a much lower rate than do internal combustion cars.



I think you will find this is the best car ever made , by a long shot.

http://cars.mclaren.com/p1.html


4300  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 12, 2014, 02:50:14 PM

Maybe consider GE, I hear electricity will be big.

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