The BTC price ONLY went down to $15,632 so far, so it was not possible to buy BTC below that price...

We talking bitStamp in these here parts.

Helrow?


I think that you are trivializing the risk @sirazimuth.

In other words, there is a pretty decently large security hole in the hardware device that you have chosen to use, and I would also hate for you to lose your coins that are on your Ledger.. even if they are shitcoins because you are poo-pooing the values that come from attempts that are made in the bitcoin space by making various kinds of open source code.. so in that regard, Trezor (and other open source) suppliers are likely better than closed sourced suppliers like Ledger..  

Each of them have flaws and complications.. so hopefully, you will think about your coins and not end up becoming a loser due to your own willingness to trust in a place in which a pretty obvious flaw has been pointed out.

Now if you have less than $20k in value held on keys on that device, then maybe it is not a BIG deal;.. but if you might have more than that, then you might want to at least diversify some of your risk.. and the mere fact that "everyone else is doing it" should not justify taking those kinds of risks  - because we (likely beyond royal) would like you to continue to be able to witness you prospering, singing bad songs and throwing your excess money at gay/gey/gray subconscious tributations, rather than having to have to resort to eating cat food (which I hear is not very good for your spirit).


So .. .in other words..

Stawp doing you..


You dumb ass!!!!!!

 




 

I don't have any problems with ideas regarding attempting to evaluate and valuate bitcoin in terms of dollars, whether we are talking about current value or future value - because largely I have difficulties understanding what is the meaning of 1 BTC = 1 BTC, even though a lot of smart people talk like that... but such a statement about 1 BTC being equal to 1 BTC  still does not mean much of anything to me.. except for removing us into abstraction, fantasy and detachment from the real world.

It seems to me that we do not necessarily need to devolve into such meaningless (and vacuous) statements such as 1 BTC = 1 BTC in order to attempt to figure out that BTC is the soundest of money that we should be attempting to accumulate.. and at the same time, the dollar is likely to remain quite dominant as a very widely liquid currency for many years to come - but still even having a parallel dollar system and a bitcoin system, hardly seems to justify that any of us should feel that we need to completely remove ourselves from the dollar system, because a lot of goods and services continue to be priced in dollars and will likely continue to be priced in dollars for many years to come - even though BTC is also likely to continue to gain a lot of value relative to the dollar as it already has historically - even though in shorter-term periods, BTC is almost certain to be inevitably volatile against the dollar... though with ongoing longer term likelihoods that the volatility will be towards the upside for bitcoin.

So in that regard, it seems blind and fantasy to fail/refuse to attempt to consider both the value of the dollar and the value of bitcoin and attempt to adequately and sufficiently allocate to be able to have both.. have enough dollars to cover short term expenses, and attempt to continue to accumulate BTC or at least to account for NOT selling too many of them too soon as it is likely good to continue to accumulate them.. but each of us also has to be careful NOT to overdo it.. and/or to over invest in bitcoin in such a way that we are forced to sell more bitcoin than we would like to sell at a time that is NOT of our own complete and voluntary choosing.

I am not against supplementing cash.. but you have to realize that if you have a $15k per year maximum, then staggering them would be buying $1,250 per month, so then by the time the year comes, then you have one year worth of those bonds staggered... so largely you are tying your $15k up for at least one year, and then if you keep buying on a monthly basis, then you have new ones coming available on a monthly basis after the first year has past.

That can supplement a BTC buying strategy, in case you believe that you have enough BTC.. but if you are way under invested in BTC, then you might want to figure out your BTC strategy first.

And fuck shitcoins.. or stable coins.. there is no need to describe shitcoins or stable coins as a competitor to bitcoin because that is a different kind of a discussion and largely off topic if you are trying to figure out how to earn yield with shitcoins, and you believe that Ibonds are safer than getting involved in various shitcoins.

Also, regarding your continuing to bring UP this Ibond bullshit.. to the extent that you are even framing the situation very well, I second what Biodom says here.


What are you talking about?

Are you referring to these to articles or some other way that SBF has gone missing? 

1) Sam Bankman-Fried quietly deletes his claim that FTX customer funds are safe

2) SBF Scrambles to Cover Tracks After FTX Blowup


Link or it did not happen.

Hey we are allies in laddering.. Not trying to be too friendly... to uie-pooie.... because I tend to want to yell at you in recent times.. that's my current inclinations.. .

hahahahaha

  At some point a couple of months ago, perhaps?, I had changed my BTC buy increments to $500 increments too.. .so my lowest buys were in low $16ks and none of the mid-$15ks executed.. so far.. and surely I am not going to be hurt if none of those orders in the $15ks or lower do not execute...

So a rough estimate of the quantity of BTC that I purchased in the past couple of days would have amounted to increasing in my BTC stash by about 0.5% (more or less)... so the amount of BTC that is accumulated is not really a major amount of BTC buys relative to the stash size.. but it fits into my system, as such system is currently being implemented within the boundaries that I have established (which I am pretty sure that there is quite a bit of new cash in there too.. which kind of goes beyond what I would have preferred to have had done.. but it is what it is and I am comfortable doing it without whining about the choices that I made .. and/or the various adjustments that I deemed were appropriate to make.)..


Cheering for DOWNity is not becoming of a coiner.

Are you a "real" coiner?

Coiners do not cheer for down, unless they are not sufficiently and/or adequately pppppeeeeee pared for UPpity.

 


Aren't you the negative nancy to beat them all?  We could still have a few months of consolidating in the current price range and then end up doing a early 2019-like run.. that ... so whatever, you should not be getting so caught up into thinking that BTC prices cannot go up, when we already know that they can, and we do not need institutions to pump our bags.


Oh gawd.... 

You are getting even worse...

This is what you were talking like in 2018 too.. Acting as if BTC were correlated to equities and the overall market, as if bitcoin were a mature asset class. 

Haven't you figured it out yet? 

Bitcoin is not as correlated as you are making it out to be, even though it does seem to do better when there is overall liquidity in various markets, but I doubt that it has to have all the conditions that you are presuming that it needs in order to do better than various other asset classes... It's still the most sound money in existence and it has not lost those value gravitational aspects, even if some institutions might be too scaredy cat to take advantage of it, there are longer period for retail to continue to front run institutions - which was getting to be unfair when Saylor was telling all of his friends, and NOW Saylor's friends will be less likely to listen.. but that does not preclude others from getting in or even the fact that there are still Bitcoin true believers who have not been burnt as badly as you are theorizing them to have had been burnt.


Well.. Cheer the fuck up.  It is not as bad as you are making it out to be.


Yeah.. and bitcoin is not broken..

Tick tock next block, and also lighting is getting more and more developed as we go, too... King daddy is doing just fine.. so maybe you should figure out how to increase your 20 BTC stash instead of whining about it having had lost value in recent days...

In the bitcoin industry you are a loser.


a no coiner



begging



loser.







Hint, hint.... would you like to NOT be a loser in the bitcoin space any more?

This might be a good place to start accumulating sats, in case this bitcoiny thing catches on.


Well..

It looks like you still don't get it.. eXPHorizon.

You seem like a bitter no coiner.. and yeah, maybe you will start to chase the train at a later point?  Maybe in the supra $500k price range?  Perhaps?

Or maybe you will die a bitter no coiner?

And, begging?

That won't help, but some of us might need some help in the yard.. you might be able to do "outside work" .. probably you will not be able to be trusted to do "inside work" like cleaning the toilets.. ..   Outside work will need to do.. Maybe?  We will see.  Maybe you will figure out some way to actually reform yourself.. and yeah, if we might improve some of the prisons with some kind of a rehabilitation program that might help current nocoiners, those who fail refuse to prepare themselves to help themselves and bitter folks like you.  Perhaps?  Perhaps?  Not sure.. 20-30 years flies by pretty quickly...


Shit.  2025 is ONLY 3 years away.  Wo whether BTC will be UP or not is still to be figured out, but if you plan for 4-10 years, you might still be accumulating if you start now and through 2025.. and yeah, it may well take a while for you to really see results, since you seem to be your own worse enemy with so much negativity, failure/refusal to plan, so I question if you would even be able to follow a 4-10 year plan of accumulating so that maybe 20 years down the road, you might be able to stop cleaning toilets.. or whatever kind of work that you might be capable of doing, currently... not trying to denigrate janitors... they make pretty good money, relatively speaking and surely more honorable than a beggar... and surely they may well be more willing to work than a beggar.


I already responded to your assertions regarding what you are doing (or what you have been doing), and I am not even necessarily asserting that it is wrong, except perhaps the bragging part, and also the internally inconsistent part in which you were saying that you were buying US Govt bonds in order to get a yield (which would lock that cash up for 6-12 months before the yield even would kick in)..

In other words, you are trying to selectively spin what you are doing in such a way to brag about supposedly being right in whatever risk management and BTC accumulation you were carrying out.  

It seems that I don't really need to say more than what I already have, except maybe I will just supplement to assert that any newbie to bitcoin should be buying with DCA, and perhaps supplementing with buying on dips and lump sum investing.

If you have been in BTC for more than 10 years (and especially if you are into your 60s or later) I would think that you should have been mostly over most of your BTC accumulation - especially the regular DCAing.. but you cannot really ever preclude buying BTC on dips in situations like our current situation, so I would expect that many of us WO regulars are buying on these kinds of dips to the extent that we had not run out of money... and I doubt that it is even fruitful to get into explaining what I have been doing.. except just to reiterate that I am not really off of my system of buying on the way down and selling on the way up..

...and of course, since BTC prices had considerably overshot (to the downside) on several occasions in the past 6 months or so, I have had to make some adjustments, but surely 5 months of mostly sideways (and largely below the 200-week MA) has allowed for some abilities for me to make some adjustments to my cashflow and various ways that I attempt to deal with these kinds of situations (none of them are exactly alike but I have quite a few personal guidelines that have come from following my system for nearly 9 years and tweaking it along the way to tailor to my personal situation) and to continue to attempt to prepare for either BTC price direction.. including down as un-preferable as that may well have been..

..and I think that the beginning of the going down below the 100-week moving average in the mid-$30ks in early to mid-May, I made a whole hell of a lot of adjustments.. Initially, in early May, I had BTC buy orders ONLY going down to $20k, and then later (by Mid-May-ish) I adjusted them down to $17k-ish.. and then even later in June and July I made further adjustments down to $15k-ish.. and then even more recently I adjusted down to $14k, then $13k, and then currently at about $12k.. so I am not even without a plan if BTC prices were to go below $12k.. yet of course, that is not the preferred route.. even though I am surely NOT without a plan to deal with even lower probability situations.. as repugnant as that seems..

...and I have not been shy in stating that I had preferred that the BTC price NOT go below the 200-week moving average, or stay below the 200-week moving average, so when we first got into these BTC price doldrums of being below the 200-week MA about 5 months ago, the 200-week moving average was around $22k, and currently it is at about $24k.. so yeah.. we have spent a lot of time below the 200-week moving average.. even as the 200 WMA slowly has been going up.. but at a more and more slow and graduated pace...  and still our current BTC price has been staying quite a ways below such 200 WMA.. .. which is less than preferable.. but still does not mean on a personal level that I have locked myself out of attempting to prepare for either price direction, even if I consider some of my preparations for down to be not BIG plays.. but they are not absent, either.

.. and sure there are some other tactics, too.. including that if I were to need to spend some of my BTC, I would do it, even though I would consider that spending at such historically low BTC price levels (referring to the 200-week MA, again) would not be preferable either, even if such sales of BTC made right now at our current BTC price of $16,650 would still be greater than 16x profits for me in terms of dollars if we consider an average cost of $1k per BTC to be a reasonable and relatively accurate way to measure my own personal rough ways to figure costs per BTC in my investment portfolio..

so I am not feeling outside of options, or even like I need to shy away from criticizing some of the silly-ass and seemingly inconsistent and emotionally-laden ideas that you frequently spout out into the air (that seem to come with a quite a bit of lack of appreciation of what is BTC, too).. that might not be very good in terms of your frequently talking in absolutes and even suggesting that you need to mention some of your seemingly crazy-individual tactics that involve various kinds of shitcoins and even various likely-to-be wrong (or would it be more accurate to describe as "backwards?") ideas regarding hash-rate relationships to BTC prices.


I have heard that before.

MajorMax?  Is that you?

 



 

Poor was reached on the way down (twice) at around $30k, and then even more POOR was reached at $22k in June... so currently, we are way MOAR poor than more poor.. It's almost without words to describe.... .

By the way, on the way UP in late 2020, we became rich around $15k.. so we became even MOAR richer and richer and richer throughout 2021 (except for that brief pause in which we were poor at $30k)..




Crying helps.



Never go 100%.. #just saying for future reference.

You never want to run out of fiat on the way down nor run out of BTC on the way up.  Those are rookie mistakes... especially since we spent about 4.5 months (or is it almost 5 months?) mostly consolidating between $18k and $22k.


This part of your post is very true.. They seemed to be trying to do too much too quickly.... .


You still believe that the cost of mining contributes to the BTC price and not the other way around..

gotta eyeroll you again on that one...

 

Look what the cat drug in...

Save the RF...

We needed someone like uie-pooie to share some of your logics and "sensibilities."


I don't know exactly what your position was, but you were talking nonsense about getting into government bonds for yields, which would have locked your cash up for 6 months to a year.. so that would not have  been a liquid position.

Yes... You seem to be vague about your details and then trying to act like you were right about failing and/refusing to stack sats for the past 10 plus years.

You want to say, "I told you so" now in regards to whatever vague-ass gambling that you might have been doing? and your pumping of dollars and US Govt. savings bonds in this thread?


Wow!!!

When you are referring to $9k, you do not have bearish expectations do you?  

Are you trying to make up for some of your failures/refusals to stack sats in the past 10 years?  It is likely not going to make up for BTC that you failed/refused to buy or to hold onto in 2014, 2015, 2016, when BTC was mostly in 3 digits and spent a decent amount of that time (likely more than half of the time (which would be more than 18 months - want me to count them for you?) under $600... and almost the whole of 2015 in the mid-$200s.

I am not suggesting that you should not be attempting to make decent efforts to stack sats at this time.. because you are way the hell ahead of the many nocoiners who fail/refuse to even get in, or the salty ones who sold too many too soon (would it be used-to-be coiners, who are bitter for having had sold too many too soon) - even though it is likely not going to make up for your nearly 10 years of having had been less focused on actual ongoing stacking of sats.. and sure, maybe you came around in the past few years, so you did not spend the whole of the last 10 years failing/refusing to sufficiently/adequately stack sats...

Fair enough.. that you still seem to be in the game.. and you didn't over do whatever you were doing (except that you seem that you like to want to brag - or say "I told you so" or fail to be humble in regards to your various seeming gambling tactics) .. so that's always a good thing that you are still in the game and have not been reckt.


good..


good..


Why are you fucking around?  It's not funny.

Grow the fuck up.


Bragging about shitcoin trades is not becoming of a WO gentleman.. .. hey, but whoever even considered you as a possible WO Gentleman anyhow?


Each of them (or both of them) can fuck off... hardly worth thanking.


Long way to go before we get there.. we gotta get back up to $20k, then we have to get above the 200-week MA, which is about $24k, and then above $30k, then above the 100-week MA - which is about $38k currently.. then we have to get back into no man's land (which is likely somewhere between $55k and $95k).. so we have a lot of resistance points to cross in the coming months.. .. which could take a while to sort out.. maybe even up to a year, better case scenario to solidly get into no man's land... I don't know.. I don't really have any of the legs figured out because on a personal level, one or two legs at a time is about as far as I might be willing to attempt to venture.


Who gives any shits about your cap gain taxes.. except you, your wife and your tax consultant?

I doubt that "we" need to feel so disempowered and de-spirited about our fate(s), merely because we are "into" bitcoins.

Sure, a lot of the degenerate gambling practices have transitioned from the debt-based fiat gambling space into the bitcoin space, but there are a lot of aspects of bitcoin fundamentals that still have not been infiltrated by status quo debt based fiat gambling systems - including its sound money aspects, its decentralized aspects and the blocks that continue to come out every 10 minutes no matter what others do around it..

I believe that some kinds of fuckery are limited - and unable to easily to apply to bitcoin systems, even though various degenerate gamblers will be playing a variety of get-rich quick practices upon bitcoin that will affect its short-term price volatility.. and some of those people are getting bit in the ass at the same time that they forget to be humble and think that they "got it all figured out."






Why so negative?

Cheer up toxie moxie.


Everything will be o.k.




Breathe





breathe






breathe.







Good job...











Good.







That's better.





 

Saylor Reckt?  Is it going down to $6k?  And, it might even take lower prices than that to reck Saylor.. but hey, you can believe what you like in terms of his vulnerability and/or the vulnerability of his company's whole approach in terms of how they had been playing the cornz.

If we all thought exactly alike then we would all be in exactly the same position in regards to our own stash management, which surely we are not (even if there might be various overlappenings - YMMV)


I agree with this way of saying it too.. which is you have to take some of the risk management assertions with a decently sized grain of salt - but at the same time, so many folks try to denigrate Saylor as if he were the same category of degenerate gambler like we had seen with the leaders of Terra/Luna, Block Fi, Celsius, Voyager and now FTX.  And, I believe that Saylor is not even close to those kinds of levels of degenerate gambler - even though for sure, he was investing into BTC at levels that were way beyond what I thought to be prudent.. ..including that he admitted to investing beyond 100% into bitcoin - which I consider to NOT be necessary in order to still get rich as fuck from bitcoin... while employing more "prudent" risk management practices.

Well, if you are able to engage in critical thinking, which is an important skill for attempting to give weight to things that we might read including but not limited to attempting to weight facts, logic and conclusions that are reached based on such critical thinking, then you should be able to explain why you believe some facts, logic and conclusions are more persuasive than others.

In other words, not everything is true merely because it is written in some random article, and you should know better than just accepting matters on face value - which causes me to speculate that you are not really even attempting to be genuine with your expression of your purported beliefs and practices.

In other words (and I running out of words yet?), you are quite likely full of shit.

Fuck that shitcoin, aka ethereum.

Regarding supply, stop trying to act as if you know the supply of ethereum, when the exact opposite is true.  So many people are mislead about their ongoing nonsense about a supposed further "restricting of the supply" of ethereum, and how would you even know, when you don't even  know the number of ethereum that were initially issued (except for what people tell you), and you do not know the current supply, and for sure you do not know the future supply either, since they can change their pumpening deceptive policies about supply at any time that they like - which should not inspire any confidence regarding the supply of Ethereum except that it is both manipulated and it is purposefully a complicated Rube Goldberg machine that you hope that the dweebs manipulating it will be able to continue to maintain enough control over it so that people believe that it has more value in the future than it does in the present times.

Fuck that shit.. and we should not even be talking about it in this thread, since this thread is about Bitcoin.. did you not notice the topic of the thread is about bitcoin?  Do you know what bitcoin is, or you just want to infiltrate this thread with baloney discussions about your shitcoin and act as if its supply is "more strict" that bitcoin.. .. which you should know better than that.. .. Let's stop talking about it in this thread - because it is off-topic.  Try to focus... Bitcoin?  have you heard of it?


If you put an App on her phone with the bitcoin balance, then she can show her BTC balance to all of her friends (not good OPsec, but that's her problem) and how it is fluctuating on a very regular basis...  hopefully the balance on her phone will be fluctuating more UP rather than down, otherwise you have to keep giving more and more to her in order that she will be able to see her balance going up .... hahahahahaha

Let's say that you gave her $100 worth (0.00465116 BTC) when the BTC price was $21,500 last week, and then now she looks at her phone and she sees that same BTC is ONLY worth $73.50 (when the BTC price was at $15,800)... So in order to keep her happy, you send her another $50 (0.003125 BTC) when the price is $16k, so now she has 0.00777616 BTC, and maybe the value will go up, and maybe it won't, but once you get it established, then it could become a kind of ongoing gift.. perhaps?  Maybe it will work? and maybe not?  People react differently to these kinds of things, and we likely realize that newbies to bitcoin will sometimes get overly anxious to sell whenever they see a decent amount of profits... and you cannot necessarily stop them from wanting to lock in their profits with some kind of a material (live for the moment) kind of satisfaction.

Exactly, if we want to assume that an overwhelming majority of El Salvadorians are either without any kind of media - or they live in caves within the country, then that statistic of 9/10 not knowing what bitcoin may well be true.... at least to have a bit of an idea regarding what bitcoin is.  I do agree with the idea that about 99% of the world does not know what bitcoin is, otherwise we would have greater than 1% of the world's adoption of bitcoin.. but that's another story that goes to the fact that even a decently large number of people who buy bitcoin don't really know what it is... so we are still early days in terms of both figuring out what bitcoin is and what are some of the purposes that bitcoin is capable of serving within society.. world-wide or even more locally for many folks.. local may well be more important (and concrete) rather than thinking/pondering globally (or global impacts/effects/use cases).

I will agree with you that it is difficult to figure out where the bottom is when the BTC price is falling so rapidly, but that does not mean that it is "risky to buy the dip" and/or to "HODL" as you are proclaiming.

If you have little to no clue regarding what you are investing into, and you view assets merely in regards to their current (short term) dollar price, then maybe in those kinds of circumstances it may well be "risky" to buy BTC dips and/or HODL BTC.

Long term investors in bitcoin have done quite well with DCA, buy the dip and HODL strategies as their primary strategies, especially the longer that they have been in bitcoin, and there does not really seem to be any evidence that bitcoin is worse of a "long term" investment now as it had been historically, even though for sure there are some short-to-medium term set back in terms of the BTC price - which may well end up being opportunities, and of course, we might not really know until some time down the road regarding how BIG of an opportunity we have in front of us (to buy bitcoin) now.. since for sure there are no guarantees in bitcoin as an investment.. even though there are several of us who likely consider bitcoin's investment thesis to be way stronger now as compared to when it was priced way lower than it currently is priced.

So do your own research and figure out your own particulars in order to figure out how you are going to strategize and/or employ any of your bitcoin investment plans and/or if you believe that bitcoin should be part of your investment portfolio (and if so, how much and how should you go about accumulating it, if you believe that bitcoin should be part of your investment portfolio).

What are you doing right now, Uzairjutt275?  Do you have any bitcoin?  Did you sell recently?  If so, do you have a plan to buy back at some point?  If you do not have any bitcoin, do you have any plan to get any? and if so what would be the circumstances in which you plan to buy, and how?  Would you DCA? Buy on dips? Lump sum invest?  or you have some other lame-ass trading strategy in which you believe that you can figure out the BTC price in advance of it happening?

For some reason, I missed your response until now, Cryptotourist.

Yes.  Even though you are in denial regarding the seeming "overboardedness" of the content of your post, you provided the categories for what I was trying to say.

In other words, it seems that I was referring to your "sucking dick" in a metaphorical way, not in a literal way.  

I was likely attempting to suggest that you seem to have had gone overboard in terms of "expressing your respect" to nullius, but hey perhaps I was being a wee bit too judgmental regarding how you choose to express yourself.  

In any event, I feel that I said more than enough on the topic.... maybe even, to some extent, regretting that I said anything.. and leave you to whatever level of fawning you determine to be "necessary" to the situation.  

Ditto in regards to DireWolfM14's statement - and "as you were soldier."  

For sure we have to consider the various ways that our bitcoin could be vulnerable, and preparing for a raid could be one of those things in which too many coins are held in one location or that it is too easy to figure out how to get at the keys.

We do not know yet, but I am with you in terms of hoping that the "authorities" are exaggerating that they actually have gotten access to the keys.  Just think how they got Ross's keys.. by supposedly getting him while his computer was on. .and the same with the Alpha bay guy when they crashed the gate and his computer was on..

There are a lot of ways in which some of us normies could screw up, and maybe having our stash separated into various locations can sometimes become too complicated, too?  because there is ONLY the necessity to have one vulnerability.. and likely there might even be times in which we are UPdating our backup system in which we are vulnerable on a short-term basis, and they something happens during that vulnerable period?

For me, personally, there are times in which I have my various keys separate, but then when I am testing them out and going through them to make sure that everything is working, during those times, my stash could become vulnerable if something were to happen.  Of course, there could be ways to do the updates in a more secure way, yet sometimes we might not even realize ways that we might be making ourselves overly vulnerable to something happening.

There are some other "dumb" things that I have done sometimes in which part of the vulnerability comes from being too lazy.. such as going to another location.. or leaving something out for several weeks before stashing it away properly.. and even getting confused by my own system, and thinking that maybe I should change this because it is too complicated.. even though it seems easy when I am setting it up and it is all fresh in my mind.


Did you even attempt to read any kind of proper context, or are you merely wanting to spread misinformation?

You should have abilities to adequately understand what I am talking about.  No?


Are you changing the topic?

We are not talking about that.

If we are attempting to figure out how many people are using bitcoin, then we count people who hold their own keys and we count people who have left their keys with third parties in a variety of ways.

What the fuck do you want to do?  Do you want to count third parties as if they were just one person/entity?

Don't get caught up in nonsense, Phil... Try to treat this matter seriously rather than getting into some dumb arguments.

How many bitcoiners are there, and how do we count them?



Is anyone saying that the third parties have the coins that they claim to have?   We are not talking about that.  You are getting distracted, it seems.

Let's say for example, Paypal has 100k worth of bitcoin, and they have 1 million account holders who have an average of 0.5BTC each.  Yeah, they do not have enough BTC to cover all the claims,,, so how are you proposing to treat those 1 million account holders who believe that that they have an average of 0.5 BTC, but they really ONLY have an average of 0.1 BTC?  How you going to count them?  They are supposed to have 500k bitcoin to cover all of the claims, but they ONLY have 100k BTC. so they have 1/5th the quantity of BTC.

I am saying that they still count.. even though they do not have as many bitcoins as they think they have... and so the reality of the matter could be that the one who believes that he is holding 0.001 BTC really ONLY has the ability to claim 0.0001 BTC.. but who cares?  That is a bit of a tangential issue, no?  Yeah, we have to draw the line at some point, but I am not going to count all of them as zero or even count them as 1/5th of their total number of bitcoiners merely because it cannot be determined if they are going to get their BTC prior to the exchange rug pulling them.


Ok.  We are coming to the same conclusion.  There is still hope.  


That's a bit of a side issue, in regards to what we are trying to discuss..  Focus Philip.. Focus.

Yeah.. but that is not the ONLY source.

I would not count various 3rd party custodians as if they were ONLY one.. because some 3rd party custodians proclaim to be holding the keys to the bitcoins of hundreds of thousands of members or even millions in one address or in a small number of addresses.

And, sure sometimes single users will have hundreds of bitcoin addresses that have more than dust amounts.. like some BTC addresses might have 10s of dollars of value, other addresses 1,000s of dollars of value and even other addresses could have 100s of thousands of dollars of value or more.. and all of those many addresses owned/controlled by one person (or one business in some cases).


Of course, ONLY the bitcoin blockchain counts as real bitcoin, yet if a third party whether Binance or the WBTC folks are holding BTC in some location (a BTC address, of course) in order to collateralize those other claims, then the BTC (to the extent that they actually exist) would be real and potentially constitute the claims of potentially thousands or millions of people who might believe that they actually have BTC... Whether they are holding 10 BTC or even 100s of thousands of BTC in support of those claims.. same with Grayscale GBTC holding something like 600k bitcoin on behalf of customers who believe that they have claims on those bitcoins that are being held - and whether there is enough BTC to support all of the claims is another story.. but still does not seem to represent 1 owner in a case like like the Grayscale GBTC holding something like 600k BTC.


Of course, the WBTC and the various other coins do not count as bitcoin, but if some of those services whether claiming to be held in a centralized or decentralized way in some kind of a contract would still be bitcoin that is held by someone on behalf of others.. so yeah, if everyone (maybe 30,000 clients) believe that such service has 2,842 Bitcoins backing up their issuance of their various scam coins, but in fact they ONLY have 28.42 BTC, then that could become an issue if they were to all attempt to claim them at the same time... otherwise they might be able to "get away" with their scam for years, years and years.. but it still would not mean that those 28.42 bitcoin are ONLY owned by one person (entity), and perhaps we have 30k persons who believe that they own more bitcoin than they actually own.

I get your point about the potential of $100 not being very much..,. but it still seems like a categorical error to be trying to say whatever to the proposition of Ethereum and bitcoin being the same thing merely because the amount is small...

And, sure, maybe it is not worth it to get into any discussion regarding that piece of shit of a coin (referring to ethereum of course) - because it is not even "on-topic" in this thread.. except that some members are bringing it up.. or wanting to persist with some amount of discussion of it.

Bitcoin has about 1% world-wide adoption, so 99/100 people in the world don't know what the fuck bitcoin is; however, personally, I will proclaim that bitcoin is already a success - even though it still has relatively low levels of adoption, and arguably even lower levels of awareness than the El Salvador population in which you are proclaiming that only 90% don't know what bitcoin is.. even though I question your rendition of supposed "awareness levels" of El Salvadoreans... as you are parroting such assertions from that article that you linked, unless we are just supposed to believe any kind of bullshit, merely because it is asserted within a linked article?  Is your source credible Tallupooh?  Maybe you should explain why you believe your source to be credible, and even elaborate on your own assertions regarding how even if the statistics were true how they support your conclusion that Bitcoin has failed in El Salvador.

What is so "fun" about that?

And how would you know?

We had recently explored some statistics asserting world-wide population of bitcoin adoption is about 140 million, which is a number that you are proclaiming to be "facts" in regards to just three countries.

I have my doubts, unless you can define what the fuck "crypto" users happen to be... not that any of us in this thread give too many shits about what is crypto, anyhow?   Maybe if you focus on "bitcoin" (have you heard of it?  do you know what it is?  Do you know what it is compared to what "crypto" is?  Do you know what you want to refer to bitcoin and crypto rather than just referring to bitcoin?), then maybe you might come out with some more relevant assertions, to the extent that you have any ideas going on within your brain that goes beyond what is stated in some twitter threads.


Personally, I believe that there are a lot of ways to "fairly" frame the issue, including but not limited to hypothetical "world-wide" averages, and accordingly in that case to compare if you are "above" or "below" what the amount of bitcoin that the average "human" or "adult human" would have in the event that BTC were to be "evenly distributed" throughout the whole planet.

Sure, I get your point in that we know that we are going through an "intellectual" and "hypothetical" exercise that NEVER is going to happen... Yes, I hate to use absolutes, but in this case, there are so many reasons that we absolutely know that bitcoin is NEVER going to completely experience even distributed around the world, and we also know that bitcoin is not going to ever even come close to becoming evenly distributed throughout the world.. because bitcoin no does not work like that.. Bitcoin works on the basis of both being able to know about it and being able to act upon your knowledge in order to work towards getting some of it, and if you do not do both of those things, then you are likely going to be disadvantaged because it is doubtful that anyone is going to give it out to you for free.

Another thing that we know about bitcoin is that there are a decent number of people who have engaged in behaviors to gather way more than their average allocation, so it seems quite likely to me that those people who are greedy and/or hoarding bitcoin are going to be disproportionately rewarded as compared to those who either take whimpy actions or average actions to accumulate BTC. 

Like I mentioned, there seems to be a variety of ways that we can attempt to speculate about ways that bitcoin are going to be distributed throughout the world in order to figure out our own relative standing, including that we could attempt to figure out what the bitcoin hoarders are doing and to see how much BTC supply is going to be left for us and to figure out if bitcoin has a good, fair or low price relative to the overall supply or whether bitcoin might be "overpriced"...

On a personal level, it is up to each of us to figure out how to price bitcoin, and to attempt to figure out if we should attempt to get more (in case it catches on) or not.

I did not realize that there were street lights on the moon.  You can see them from your telescope.  Who would've known?


You are surely beyond help.  #justsaying


I cannot really suggest that DCA'ing would be a bad plan at this point... It sounds much better than what you had been talking about earlier in terms of investing into shitcoin USGov bonds, and of course, you are likely doing both. .but still.. .  DCA seems to always be a good idea, at least until you get to the point that you are overly allocated to BTC.. and for sure the devil is in the details regarding what constitutes overly allocated to such a point that DCA does not really make as much sense.

Let's say that you have been in bitcoin for more than 10 years, and initially, you considered that you would need to have over a $million to get to entry-level fuck you status yet you were a bit distracted by building up dollars instead of bitcoin, and so your first started to cash out any bitcoin that you had accumulated, and essentially, you had averaged investing ONLY around $10 per week into bitcoin for several years, and at some point around 2019, you started to pick up your BTC accumulation game, but you still could not get out of thinking about the accumulation of dollars, and some time after March 2020, you started to realize that you would need to get somewhere more than $2 million to get to entry level fuck you status, and you had ONLY so far accumulated around 15 BTC.. which surely did not seem to be enough to get to entry-level fuck you status.. but since you have your own way of thinking.. in regards to just cashing out principle and earnings capability at the same time, then you come to the belief that you might not need much more than the 15 bitcoins that you have so far accumulated... so in that sense, it might make sense to DCA buy.. who's to say?  

There are all kinds of ways in which people can think about these kinds of matters, even though I continue to believe that it continues to be better to attempt to consider getting to a point in which you no longer really need to be too worried about DCA'ing which may well be possible when you are supplementing what you had already built based on $50 per week, and if you were to have a 4-10 year time horizon or longer, and you live in the west, I surely consider a $100 per week DCA to be a good amount for someone who is new to bitcoin (if they are able to do that without over doing it).  For sure, it is more complicated to measure when a person has already been into bitcoin 4-10 years or longer and is still considering 1 year of DCA'ing based on anticipated depressed BTC prices that may (or may not) last that long.



"We" Demand MOAR from Uie pooie!!!!!!!