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441  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: July 04, 2013, 08:55:33 AM
...
The new client is just awesome! Fast, easy to use, easy to backup! Exactly what is needed to pay for something in the real world (like my drink at the bar yesterday).

To backup I simply scanned a private key from one of these http://bitaddress.org / https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43496   Everything was done in seconds.

Quote
The Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet deserves its own thread, but we would like to announce it in this thread first and let the hard-core BitcoinSpinner users give us some feedback.
Please start the new thread, I would like to link to it.



Notes:

When scanning a private key it should warn the user that anyone with access to that key can steal the coins on it (e.g. do not give that piece of paper out of hand!), maybe give an option to swipe and throw away the privkey.
We are warning when exporting a key (not when importing), which I think is the right place...
We are going to add a special "cold storage spending" wizard, which will not store the key on the phone (no more add-key + spend + delete-key). The key will only be in memory while making the transaction.

The zero was missing from the PIN enter dialog on horizontal screen.
I see. Will add a scrollbar or find another solution when entering pin in horizontal mode.

Thanks for the feedback
442  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: July 04, 2013, 08:49:29 AM
Thanks for the through feedback. Much appreciated. This is vacation week for me. I'll get to work on your suggestions next week.

I just tested Mycelium. Here are my immediate thoughts about it:

Most surprising is the application name, "Barcode scanner", which is unexpected to say the least? Did you perhaps fork that project to get started and forgot to change the manifest?

This is the case on some phones, I haven't seen it myself though. Initially the barcode scanner was external, but for security reasons (and ease of installation) we have embedded the Zxing barcode scanner. For some reason the app claims the name of the barcode scanner instead of Mycelium. Will investigate and fix. Is the app icon on your phone that of the barcode scanner or is it the Mycelium logo?

Functionality-wise I think everything is there. It is however a bit unclear what happends when you add more keys. Do transactions affect only one key at a time? If I had half a bitcoin on each of two addresses, could I send one bitcoin in a transaction? This is not explained nor clearly reflected in the UI. Would deleting a key make the corresponding funds inaccessible? How is this reflected in the main screen? Is it even allowed (didn't dare to test this).

Right now you are working on one key at a time, and we are changing that. Many users have requested an aggregated view of all keys, and this is also what you see in other wallets. We are still in beta and collecting feedback Wink

On to the user interface: The gradients look a bit out of place in an Android GUI. There are some Holo guidelines which may help here.
Link?
Swiping is discoverable because of the animated arrows in the main screen but is otherwise quite unexpected.

There has been much tweaking and fiddling with swiping to make it visually apparent. Still nobody (except me) like the way it works now. I'll give it another stab.
 

There are some visual incosistencies. "Keys & Addresses" is monospace for no reason, "Transaction history" centered and larger(!) for no reason, "No Transaction Records" is big and slanted which looks strange. It is probably to make an interface consistent from the start than plan a redesign (for which there is often never a good time).

Will fix.

What does "Set Label" in the main screen menu do, as opposed to setting a label in the Keys & Addresses screen?

"Set Label" sets the label of the currently selected key or address. Will get refactored once we go to "aggregated key view".

Why is "Address Book" the only screen which you access via the menu, while the other screens are accesses by swiping?

Will add the others

I couldn't understand how to use the address book at all. It opened empty and there is no obvious way to add an entry.

I have been working on adding an "Add" button, which allows you to add an address by scanning or from clipboard. Will make it for next release.
 
Payments could not be entered manually, only entered in another program and transferred via the clipboard. I understand it is not the most user friendly way to do payments but sometimes it is necessary. It's not nice to be stuck if you promise to sell someone a bitcoin and they show their address on a small piece of paper.
By payments I guess you mean the address.
Have you really ever entered an address manually? How long time did it take to do it right? I haven't, and it is bound to be a huge pain, especially on an android device.
Andreas and I have discussed this quite a few times. His thinking is that we should allow for firstbits and address shorteners such as http://payb.tc/
It will probably not be in the next few releases.
Thanks for writing the software. I don't think it's completely ready for general use just yet but it's promising. I'd be happy to write more about it after I had a chance to really use it for payments (sadly, those opportunities are far in between where I live).
Great feedback, keep it coming  Smiley
443  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Encrypted Paper Backups on: June 27, 2013, 07:50:21 PM
Sorry for reviving this thread...

You could also display a code/sentence on the screen rather than having the user select one.  This more or less forces them to record it somewhere (and as you said, most people would record it on the paper).  If you did this then you would probably want to have the user re-enter for accuracy.

I am not fond of brain wallets for many reasons (users are notoriously bad at choosing strong passwords, they are easily forgotten, you can attempt a brute force once the address hits the network, etc...)

However, I like ErebusBat's idea of letting software pick a strong password to be displayed in addition to print out an encrypted secret on paper:
 - The password wil be strong
 - The user has no choice but to write it down, but can choose to write it down on a separate sheet.
 - Unlike brain wallets, it is not feasible to brute force until you have the secret stored on paper

I would however still let the user choose to store the secret in plain on paper, and have this as an alternative option.

Oh you mean like this?  Smiley
(it was part of a demo at the Bitcoin conference in May, and will be part of one of the next two major Armory upgrades)

Yes Wink
I was at the Mycelium booth just on the other side of the aisle all three days of the conference and didn't get a chance to see it. I guess that's my own fault.
Here it how it is currently done with the Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet (in beta): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7V2myIwAuE
Since it is on a smartphone I prefer to use QR-codes. I'll probably add the option to request a device generated password. Do you have a spec for how the armory wallet backup is generated?
444  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 27, 2013, 11:56:37 AM
How to export your private key to paper without using a virus infected computer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7V2myIwAuE
445  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Announcing BCCAPI on: June 27, 2013, 11:46:39 AM
Has anyone using this to make an online wallet?  Where is the server residing?

From what I can tell, this is pretty tied to Java (it basically passes serialized Java objects around). Which is fine as far as it goes but somewhat limits things in terms of coding clients.
Correct. If you mimic the serialization used by the Java implementation you will be golden.
The server is running at RackSpace, and is also used by BitcoinSpinner. Right now a lot of things are shifting in this space now that the Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet is marching through its beta. Eventually the BCCAPI will be retired.
446  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Encrypted Paper Backups on: June 27, 2013, 10:02:30 AM
Sorry for reviving this thread...

You could also display a code/sentence on the screen rather than having the user select one.  This more or less forces them to record it somewhere (and as you said, most people would record it on the paper).  If you did this then you would probably want to have the user re-enter for accuracy.

I am not fond of brain wallets for many reasons (users are notoriously bad at choosing strong passwords, they are easily forgotten, you can attempt a brute force once the address hits the network, etc...)

However, I like ErebusBat's idea of letting software pick a strong password to be displayed in addition to print out an encrypted secret on paper:
 - The password wil be strong
 - The user has no choice but to write it down, but can choose to write it down on a separate sheet.
 - Unlike brain wallets, it is not feasible to brute force until you have the secret stored on paper

I would however still let the user choose to store the secret in plain on paper, and have this as an alternative option.
447  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 26, 2013, 06:32:33 PM
...
ah, ok. a misunderstanding. I wanted the user to be warned when he uses the "receive" button on a address mycelium doesn't have the key to.

I see.
For some reason I was certain that you sent it to the address in your clipboard.
I'll add a warning for the other use-case as well. I am going on vacation Friday morning, but will see if I can get it in before that. If Andreas spins a release while I am gone it will appear there.
448  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 26, 2013, 02:23:07 PM
A friend of mine put Bitcoin Spinner on her Android phone and loaded it with one bitcoin. An hour later, she dropped it in a bucket of water before having a chance to back up the wallet. The phone still sort of works as far as we can tell (it makes noises and the LEDs flash, but the display is blank).

I would appreciate any clues on recovering the bitcoin -- the path to the wallet file, or whatever. I may try connecting the phone to a computer as a mass storage device and grabbing the file that way, or plugging in the mini HDMI cable and pulling up the backup onto a computer monitor or something. I'm also curious if the default wallet is stored on the micro SD card or on the phone's internal memory.

So really, I don't know exactly how I will get the file and may enlist the help of someone local who knows more about Android, but anything you can tell me that I can pass along would be appreciated.

Thanks!
The seed used for generating the private key is stored in a file stored in app private storage. To get to it you have to root your device or somehow mount it and look for a 'KeyManagerCache' preferences file.
On my device it is located here: /data/data/com.miracleas.bitcoin_spinner/shared_prefs/KeyManagerCache.xml
Once you have access to the files you should be able to copy them to another phone where BitcoinSpinner is installed. Then it should assume the other apps 'identity' along with keys and everything. I haven't tried this myself, as I always make paper backups  Wink
449  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 25, 2013, 02:28:41 PM
...
  • before receiving money to an address, display warning if the private key is not known
  • when deleting a private key that has money on it, mention that in the delete confimation dialog
...
Good ideas, I'l add them to our list

thanks for implementing the first one (albeit I can't verify, see my post above).

The second one is also important, I hope it's still on your list?

Yes it is  Wink
450  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 25, 2013, 02:28:06 PM

thanks for the update!

  • Added warning when sending funds to a read-only address in your wallet

this doesn't seem to work. to reproduce:

  • update to 0.5.3
  • make new random key
  • delete private key
  • open the key
  • send money to the key
  • answer "no" to "do you want to specify amount?"
  • => qr-code is displayed. no warning was displayed

The warning is shown in red on the send summary page just before you sign and send the transaction.
Here are my steps to reproduce:
  • Install 0.5.3
  • import key with funds
  • import bitcoin address (or create random key + address, then delete key)
  • open bitcoin address, click QR code, copy to clipboard
  • open key with funds
  • send -> Clipboard-> enter amount -> Warning shown on summary page

Warning: You are monitoring this address, but you cannot spend coins from it unless you have the private key elsewhere.
451  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 25, 2013, 01:01:39 PM
Version 0.5.3 is available in the app store:
  • Import BitcoinSpinner backups (We could already import BitcoinSpinner exported private keys)
  • Improved contrast in transaction details -> easier to read in sun light
  • Added warning when sending funds to a read-only address in your wallet
  • Modified sorting in Keys & Addresses: Keys on the top, Addresses at the bottom, both categories sorted by timestamp
  • Disabling Export button after successful export to SD card
  • No longer forcing the user to choose a folder when exporting to SD card (SD card must have a 'mycelium-export' folder)

Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming so we can exit beta faster.

Changes so far in the next update:
  • Added add-to-address-book button on send summary
  • Displaying name of receiver in send summary for receivers in address book
  • Made back-button in Keys & Addresses take you to balance view instead of quitting
  • Fixed an issue that made the app appear sluggish in most views (you will notice that one)
  • Properly centering of "Show to Sender" text when receiving coins
452  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 24, 2013, 07:58:56 AM
@Jan

I am using your Mycelium wallet today and noticed that, in daylight, I cannot really read the dark-blue-on-black text in the Transaction Details screen.

(This is on a Samsung Galaxy S3 OLED screen).

I know you want it 'low down in the mix' as it is basically touch-to-copy but it is just a dark blur on black.   

:-)

Yes, I see. I have been sitting in the dark during development... need more light and fresh air I guess :-)
I don't want to display buttons, but wanted users to know that they could click hashes / addresses, so I went for making it appear as a link. I'll play around with the colors and make them somewhat lighter.... and dare a step into the sun for testing.
453  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 24, 2013, 07:54:08 AM
mycelium... just installed and like it.

But: it's not a deterministic wallet?

Hmm, how to make a backup? I'll have to backup keys individually, I guess. Does the app at least

Oh wow, now I found quite a usability pitfall:

  • checked out "new key" feature
  • checked out "delete key feature" (deleting the just-created key)
  • checked out "receive money feature"
  • money was lost because I had the address without key selected.

^ that's pretty harsh. there should be a warning that you're trying to receive to an address mycelium doesn't have the key to. Maybe that key could have a different color, too, like RED.
Yes you are right, the wallet does not use deterministic keys. When you design a wallet for a device with limited screen capabilities and broad adoption you have to make some tough choices about usability. If you want both deterministic keys (all keys derived from some seed) and key import functionality you basically have two different key management mechanisms. This is IMO to much unless you want to make a tool for geeks only. Since I have been asked many many times to include key import in BitcoinSpinner I chose this model.

Regarding the warning on receiving: I agree, I'll add it 
454  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 24, 2013, 07:46:53 AM
Thanx Jan for your feedback. "Annoying dialogs are annoying ;-)" and you have too many of them. Why ask long questions along the way when you can have a form like in spinner? When sending, I want an address field with auto-completion from my labels, a paste clipboard and a qr button like in spinner. I want a "personal notes aka label"field that is optional.
The problem is that you have everything in one screen, which is confusing and clutters up the very limited space that we have available on small devices. With the Mycelium wallet you have the option to choose fiat balance, with BitcoinSpinner the UI would get (even more) clumsy if you added that.
455  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] BitcoinSpinner on: June 24, 2013, 07:31:13 AM
I'll lock this thread to let the discussion continue in the dev thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53353
We are busy discussing the Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet over there... the successor of BitcoinSpinner, come join us.
456  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] BitcoinSpinner on: June 24, 2013, 07:29:10 AM
...
  • before receiving money to an address, display warning if the private key is not known
  • when deleting a private key that has money on it, mention that in the delete confimation dialog
...
Good ideas, I'l add them to our list
...
can mycelium combine money from different keys when sending? It currently seems to me that the 2 addresses I have are handled as completely separate wallets? If that's correct, you could call them "wallets" instead of "addresses".

The way the Mycelium wallet works right now is that you work with one key at a time. This means that balance, transaction history, sending/receiving all works on the currently selected key or address. This gives you fine-grained control over your keys, and that has its merits. We have been thinking about changing that to a model where keys/addresses are treated as a pool. This has the following consequences:

  • Balance: The combined balance of all your keys and addresses (address = 'read-only wallet')
  • Transaction History: The combined history of your keys and addresses
  • Sending: Spend from the sum of funds available to your keys, addresses ignored
  • Receiving: Your default receiving address will be used. You will select which in the Keys & Addresses view.

While the above is all nice, it also means that you will have less control when accessing your cold-storage (import key / spend / delete key), as the key will be part of the list of other keys and you may do a spend from several addresses. To alleviate that a special single key mode has to be made while not cluttering up the UI.
If more people ask for it we may make the change.
457  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 24, 2013, 07:28:42 AM
...
  • before receiving money to an address, display warning if the private key is not known
  • when deleting a private key that has money on it, mention that in the delete confimation dialog
...
Good ideas, I'l add them to our list
...
can mycelium combine money from different keys when sending? It currently seems to me that the 2 addresses I have are handled as completely separate wallets? If that's correct, you could call them "wallets" instead of "addresses".

The way the Mycelium wallet works right now is that you work with one key at a time. This means that balance, transaction history, sending/receiving all works on the currently selected key or address. This gives you fine-grained control over your keys, and that has its merits. We have been thinking about changing that to a model where keys/addresses are treated as a pool. This has the following consequences:

  • Balance: The combined balance of all your keys and addresses (address = 'read-only wallet')
  • Transaction History: The combined history of your keys and addresses
  • Sending: Spend from the sum of funds available to your keys, addresses ignored
  • Receiving: Your default receiving address will be used. You will select which in the Keys & Addresses view.

While the above is all nice, it also means that you will have less control when accessing your cold-storage (import key / spend / delete key), as the key will be part of the list of other keys and you may do a spend from several addresses. To alleviate that a special single key mode has to be made while not cluttering up the UI.
If more people ask for it we may make the change.
458  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 21, 2013, 07:41:17 AM
Great work!!! I will definitely leave a 5* after testing and reviewing the code a bit. In one week I will show it on a bitcoin forum here in Viņa.

(Disclaimer: When I test stuff I try to document my first impression as closely as possible as this first impression can never be brought back, so if people consider this blabla pointless: It's intended for the developer, not the general forum reader.)
...
Hey Giszmo,
I was looking forward to some feedback from you. Great to see that you like it so far, and I agree on your thoughts on first impressions. So let me sum it up a bit.

General comment: We are trying really hard to make this wallet easy to use. So features that are useful for the 1% hard-core bitcoiners and confusing to the rest are not going to make it. We want to have as few settings/options as possible while having a feature rich wallet. This is a tough balance.

1. Shuffle/Use on key creation: Since you understood the UI after half a second I think we got it spot on.
2. Vanitygen-ing keys: Phones are awfully slow at this even with just 3 letters, and it really is a special use-case. I think it is best to leave it as something hardcore bitcoiners do on powerful computers, and then import them into Mycelium.
3. Swipe delay: I agree. On older phones it feels sluggish when you swipe left/right. We have discussed this internally and we have some ideas on hoe to improve it.
4. Redundant servers: Like BitcoinSpinner, Mycelium depends on a custom made super node which is not open source. The company (also called Mycelium) has invested heavily in developing it and we are going to use it for other projects (hint: for instance bitcoincard.org) and commercial services. Unlike BitcoinSpinner the Mycelium wallet is backed by two 100% redundant physical servers in two different datacenters. Whenever the wallet makes a query to get its balance, get unspent outputs, transaction history etc it connects to random server (SSL encrypted with certificate pinning). If it does not respond it chooses the next. This way the wallet continues to work while a server is down for maintenance/upgrades. The Spinner server was down 3 hours yesterday because the hosting provider chose to do some maintenance (first downtime for months). With Mycelium this is a lot less likely.
5. Should I use Mycelium instead of Spinner: Mycelium is in beta (so is the Spinner by the way along with most things in bitcoin land Wink ). We are doing our best to make sure that it has no bugs and has 100% uptime. However, at the stage we are at right now we are requesting feedback, improving things, fixing bugs etc. I think you should test it and judge for yourself. I have used the Mycelium wallet hundreds of times and sent transactions worth more than $1000 with it and didn't loose a coin so far. A few weeks from now I would definitely say that you should use Mycelium. Eventually Spinner will be phased out
6. Enter amount to send before scanning: The thing is that often the QR-code contains the amount to send. In those cases we can skip the entering-amount step entirely. If we did it the other way around you would have to enter an amount, then scan a QR-code, which may overwrite your amount. Too confusing and IMO leads to mistakes.
7. Enter label on the send screen: Some wallets always present a dialog asking you whether you want to add the address to your address book just before/after you send the transaction. This is totally annoying, and I don't remember ever using it. If more people ask for it I would probably add second button along with the send button for that finctionality. Annoying dialogs are annoying ;-)
8. Open sourcing servers: As mentioned in 4. we don't have any current plans of open sourcing the server. grau has made an open source server with similar capabilities (bitsofproof.org) and is making a living on running it as a service.
 
459  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: June 21, 2013, 06:41:35 AM
Thanks!

Yeah, quite a bit has been thrown at it since you saw the prototype at the conference.
It is great to have it in the open and get feedback.
460  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Android client that supports Privkey QR-codes? on: June 20, 2013, 02:06:41 PM
the new Android Wallet from Mycelium will support this feature.

interesting that you bring up omitting a few characters. this is currently not built in but may be worth looking at.
Here it is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mycelium.wallet
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