BitcoinSpinner

[apetersson]

"sorry, Iran.."? I have friends with bitcoins in Iran. What are the implications for them?

some time ago i read iran is blocking all SSL traffic and later it replaced it with their own root cert which means they are intercepting all traffic. I don't know if it is currently also the case. if so, you will need to find a creative tunneling solution for your android to be able to use the Wallet.

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[Jan]

Thanks!

Yeah, quite a bit has been thrown at it since you saw the prototype at the conference.
It is great to have it in the open and get feedback.

[apetersson]

I just sent 2mɃ to the address visible in your market screenshot.

good news! i managed to recover the backup. no worries, all funds sent there are save

[Jan]

Great work!!! I will definitely leave a 5* after testing and reviewing the code a bit. In one week I will show it on a bitcoin forum here in Viña.

(Disclaimer: When I test stuff I try to document my first impression as closely as possible as this first impression can never be brought back, so if people consider this blabla pointless: It's intended for the developer, not the general forum reader.)
...

Hey Giszmo,
I was looking forward to some feedback from you. Great to see that you like it so far, and I agree on your thoughts on first impressions. So let me sum it up a bit.

General comment: We are trying really hard to make this wallet easy to use. So features that are useful for the 1% hard-core bitcoiners and confusing to the rest are not going to make it. We want to have as few settings/options as possible while having a feature rich wallet. This is a tough balance.

1. Shuffle/Use on key creation: Since you understood the UI after half a second I think we got it spot on.
2. Vanitygen-ing keys: Phones are awfully slow at this even with just 3 letters, and it really is a special use-case. I think it is best to leave it as something hardcore bitcoiners do on powerful computers, and then import them into Mycelium.
3. Swipe delay: I agree. On older phones it feels sluggish when you swipe left/right. We have discussed this internally and we have some ideas on hoe to improve it.
4. Redundant servers: Like BitcoinSpinner, Mycelium depends on a custom made super node which is not open source. The company (also called Mycelium) has invested heavily in developing it and we are going to use it for other projects (hint: for instance bitcoincard.org) and commercial services. Unlike BitcoinSpinner the Mycelium wallet is backed by two 100% redundant physical servers in two different datacenters. Whenever the wallet makes a query to get its balance, get unspent outputs, transaction history etc it connects to random server (SSL encrypted with certificate pinning). If it does not respond it chooses the next. This way the wallet continues to work while a server is down for maintenance/upgrades. The Spinner server was down 3 hours yesterday because the hosting provider chose to do some maintenance (first downtime for months). With Mycelium this is a lot less likely.
5. Should I use Mycelium instead of Spinner: Mycelium is in beta (so is the Spinner by the way along with most things in bitcoin land ). We are doing our best to make sure that it has no bugs and has 100% uptime. However, at the stage we are at right now we are requesting feedback, improving things, fixing bugs etc. I think you should test it and judge for yourself. I have used the Mycelium wallet hundreds of times and sent transactions worth more than $1000 with it and didn't loose a coin so far. A few weeks from now I would definitely say that you should use Mycelium. Eventually Spinner will be phased out
6. Enter amount to send before scanning: The thing is that often the QR-code contains the amount to send. In those cases we can skip the entering-amount step entirely. If we did it the other way around you would have to enter an amount, then scan a QR-code, which may overwrite your amount. Too confusing and IMO leads to mistakes.
7. Enter label on the send screen: Some wallets always present a dialog asking you whether you want to add the address to your address book just before/after you send the transaction. This is totally annoying, and I don't remember ever using it. If more people ask for it I would probably add second button along with the send button for that finctionality. Annoying dialogs are annoying ;-)
8. Open sourcing servers: As mentioned in 4. we don't have any current plans of open sourcing the server. grau has made an open source server with similar capabilities (bitsofproof.org) and is making a living on running it as a service.
 

[giszmo]

Thanx Jan for your feedback. "Annoying dialogs are annoying ;-)" and you have too many of them. Why ask long questions along the way when you can have a form like in spinner? When sending, I want an address field with auto-completion from my labels, a paste clipboard and a qr button like in spinner. I want a "personal notes aka label"field that is optional.

[molecular]

mycelium... just installed and like it.

But: it's not a deterministic wallet?

Hmm, how to make a backup? I'll have to backup keys individually, I guess. Does the app at least

Oh wow, now I found quite a usability pitfall:

• checked out "new key" feature
• checked out "delete key feature" (deleting the just-created key)
• checked out "receive money feature"
• money was lost because I had the address without key selected.

^ that's pretty harsh. there should be a warning that you're trying to receive to an address mycelium doesn't have the key to. Maybe that key could have a different color, too, like RED.

[jim618]

@Jan

I am using your Mycelium wallet today and noticed that, in daylight, I cannot really read the dark-blue-on-black text in the Transaction Details screen.

(This is on a Samsung Galaxy S3 OLED screen).

I know you want it 'low down in the mix' as it is basically touch-to-copy but it is just a dark blur on black.   

:-)

[Jan]

...

• before receiving money to an address, display warning if the private key is not known
• when deleting a private key that has money on it, mention that in the delete confimation dialog

...

Good ideas, I'l add them to our list

...
can mycelium combine money from different keys when sending? It currently seems to me that the 2 addresses I have are handled as completely separate wallets? If that's correct, you could call them "wallets" instead of "addresses".

The way the Mycelium wallet works right now is that you work with one key at a time. This means that balance, transaction history, sending/receiving all works on the currently selected key or address. This gives you fine-grained control over your keys, and that has its merits. We have been thinking about changing that to a model where keys/addresses are treated as a pool. This has the following consequences:

• Balance: The combined balance of all your keys and addresses (address = 'read-only wallet')
• Transaction History: The combined history of your keys and addresses
• Sending: Spend from the sum of funds available to your keys, addresses ignored
• Receiving: Your default receiving address will be used. You will select which in the Keys & Addresses view.

While the above is all nice, it also means that you will have less control when accessing your cold-storage (import key / spend / delete key), as the key will be part of the list of other keys and you may do a spend from several addresses. To alleviate that a special single key mode has to be made while not cluttering up the UI.
If more people ask for it we may make the change.

[Jan]

Thanx Jan for your feedback. "Annoying dialogs are annoying ;-)" and you have too many of them. Why ask long questions along the way when you can have a form like in spinner? When sending, I want an address field with auto-completion from my labels, a paste clipboard and a qr button like in spinner. I want a "personal notes aka label"field that is optional.

The problem is that you have everything in one screen, which is confusing and clutters up the very limited space that we have available on small devices. With the Mycelium wallet you have the option to choose fiat balance, with BitcoinSpinner the UI would get (even more) clumsy if you added that.

[Jan]

mycelium... just installed and like it.

But: it's not a deterministic wallet?

Hmm, how to make a backup? I'll have to backup keys individually, I guess. Does the app at least

Oh wow, now I found quite a usability pitfall:

• checked out "new key" feature
• checked out "delete key feature" (deleting the just-created key)
• checked out "receive money feature"
• money was lost because I had the address without key selected.

^ that's pretty harsh. there should be a warning that you're trying to receive to an address mycelium doesn't have the key to. Maybe that key could have a different color, too, like RED.

Yes you are right, the wallet does not use deterministic keys. When you design a wallet for a device with limited screen capabilities and broad adoption you have to make some tough choices about usability. If you want both deterministic keys (all keys derived from some seed) and key import functionality you basically have two different key management mechanisms. This is IMO to much unless you want to make a tool for geeks only. Since I have been asked many many times to include key import in BitcoinSpinner I chose this model.

Regarding the warning on receiving: I agree, I'll add it 

[Jan]

@Jan

I am using your Mycelium wallet today and noticed that, in daylight, I cannot really read the dark-blue-on-black text in the Transaction Details screen.

(This is on a Samsung Galaxy S3 OLED screen).

I know you want it 'low down in the mix' as it is basically touch-to-copy but it is just a dark blur on black.   

:-)

Yes, I see. I have been sitting in the dark during development... need more light and fresh air I guess :-)
I don't want to display buttons, but wanted users to know that they could click hashes / addresses, so I went for making it appear as a link. I'll play around with the colors and make them somewhat lighter.... and dare a step into the sun for testing.

[Jan]

Version 0.5.3 is available in the app store:

• Import BitcoinSpinner backups (We could already import BitcoinSpinner exported private keys)
• Improved contrast in transaction details -> easier to read in sun light
• Added warning when sending funds to a read-only address in your wallet
• Modified sorting in Keys & Addresses: Keys on the top, Addresses at the bottom, both categories sorted by timestamp
• Disabling Export button after successful export to SD card
• No longer forcing the user to choose a folder when exporting to SD card (SD card must have a 'mycelium-export' folder)

Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming so we can exit beta faster.

Changes so far in the next update:

• Added add-to-address-book button on send summary
• Displaying name of receiver in send summary for receivers in address book
• Made back-button in Keys & Addresses take you to balance view instead of quitting
• Fixed an issue that made the app appear sluggish in most views (you will notice that one)
• Properly centering of "Show to Sender" text when receiving coins

[molecular]

...

• before receiving money to an address, display warning if the private key is not known
• when deleting a private key that has money on it, mention that in the delete confimation dialog

...

Good ideas, I'l add them to our list

I'm not a fan of pop-ups. But in case of non-undoable operations that can lose money, it makes sense.

[molecular]

Version 0.5.3 is available in the app store:

• Import BitcoinSpinner backups (We could already import BitcoinSpinner exported private keys)
• Improved contrast in transaction details -> easier to read in sun light
• Added warning when sending funds to a read-only address in your wallet
• Modified sorting in Keys & Addresses: Keys on the top, Addresses at the bottom, both categories sorted by timestamp
• Disabling Export button after successful export to SD card
• No longer forcing the user to choose a folder when exporting to SD card (SD card must have a 'mycelium-export' folder)

Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming so we can exit beta faster.

Changes so far in the next update:

• Added add-to-address-book button on send summary
• Displaying name of receiver in send summary for receivers in address book
• Made back-button in Keys & Addresses take you to balance view instead of quitting
• Fixed an issue that made the app appear sluggish in most views (you will notice that one)
• Properly centering of "Show to Sender" text when receiving coins

thanks for the update!

• Added warning when sending funds to a read-only address in your wallet

this doesn't seem to work. to reproduce:

• update to 0.5.3
• make new random key
• delete private key
• open the key
• send money to the key
• answer "no" to "do you want to specify amount?"
• => qr-code is displayed. no warning was displayed

[molecular]

...

• before receiving money to an address, display warning if the private key is not known
• when deleting a private key that has money on it, mention that in the delete confimation dialog

...

Good ideas, I'l add them to our list

thanks for implementing the first one (albeit I can't verify, see my post above).

The second one is also important, I hope it's still on your list?

[Jan]

thanks for the update!

• Added warning when sending funds to a read-only address in your wallet

this doesn't seem to work. to reproduce:

• update to 0.5.3
• make new random key
• delete private key
• open the key
• send money to the key
• answer "no" to "do you want to specify amount?"
• => qr-code is displayed. no warning was displayed

The warning is shown in red on the send summary page just before you sign and send the transaction.
Here are my steps to reproduce:

• Install 0.5.3
• import key with funds
• import bitcoin address (or create random key + address, then delete key)
• open bitcoin address, click QR code, copy to clipboard
• open key with funds
• send -> Clipboard-> enter amount -> Warning shown on summary page

Warning: You are monitoring this address, but you cannot spend coins from it unless you have the private key elsewhere.

[Jan]

...

• before receiving money to an address, display warning if the private key is not known
• when deleting a private key that has money on it, mention that in the delete confimation dialog

...

Good ideas, I'l add them to our list

thanks for implementing the first one (albeit I can't verify, see my post above).

The second one is also important, I hope it's still on your list?

Yes it is 

[IveBeenBit]

A friend of mine put Bitcoin Spinner on her Android phone and loaded it with one bitcoin. An hour later, she dropped it in a bucket of water before having a chance to back up the wallet. The phone still sort of works as far as we can tell (it makes noises and the LEDs flash, but the display is blank).

I would appreciate any clues on recovering the bitcoin -- the path to the wallet file, or whatever. I may try connecting the phone to a computer as a mass storage device and grabbing the file that way, or plugging in the mini HDMI cable and pulling up the backup onto a computer monitor or something. I'm also curious if the default wallet is stored on the micro SD card or on the phone's internal memory.

So really, I don't know exactly how I will get the file and may enlist the help of someone local who knows more about Android, but anything you can tell me that I can pass along would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[giszmo]

I guess I know why it is the way it is but from a user perspective it is annoying to have a list of "wallets" without balances on them. I wouldn't want to have to hit all of my 20 wallets, hit open, wait for a balance to load from the server, swipe left, scroll down searching for where I was last to find a suiting wallet to pay whatever I'm about to pay now.

Neither do I like that I have to click twice to open a wallet. This should be the default behavior when clicking wallets.
Alternatively add buttons to "update balance", "open", etc.

Labeled addresses should not have the receiving address huge as it is now. Labeling a key should make it smaller and more readable and not bigger.

Maybe when deleting an address, in addition to the warning talked about above, offer to swipe that address to another address.

Maybe allow me to hide or otherwise order addresses. Now the most recent address is the one I have to scroll down most. They should be ordered by either manual order or least recently used/created.

A friend of mine put Bitcoin Spinner on her Android phone and loaded it with one bitcoin. An hour later, she dropped it in a bucket of water

Sorry I lolled Where did she find "a bucket of water" to drown her Android in?

Spinner has its keys only in the internal memory. You would need to root it to access them. Tough luck if the system is encrypted.
Don't through away the phone. Consider it a physical bitcoin

(sorry, I'm in a troll mood)

[Jan]

A friend of mine put Bitcoin Spinner on her Android phone and loaded it with one bitcoin. An hour later, she dropped it in a bucket of water before having a chance to back up the wallet. The phone still sort of works as far as we can tell (it makes noises and the LEDs flash, but the display is blank).

I would appreciate any clues on recovering the bitcoin -- the path to the wallet file, or whatever. I may try connecting the phone to a computer as a mass storage device and grabbing the file that way, or plugging in the mini HDMI cable and pulling up the backup onto a computer monitor or something. I'm also curious if the default wallet is stored on the micro SD card or on the phone's internal memory.

So really, I don't know exactly how I will get the file and may enlist the help of someone local who knows more about Android, but anything you can tell me that I can pass along would be appreciated.

Thanks!

The seed used for generating the private key is stored in a file stored in app private storage. To get to it you have to root your device or somehow mount it and look for a 'KeyManagerCache' preferences file.
On my device it is located here: /data/data/com.miracleas.bitcoin_spinner/shared_prefs/KeyManagerCache.xml
Once you have access to the files you should be able to copy them to another phone where BitcoinSpinner is installed. Then it should assume the other apps 'identity' along with keys and everything. I haven't tried this myself, as I always make paper backups