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441  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Bitcoin Qt wallet (win32 & 64) more and more corruption problems and reindexing on: November 09, 2015, 02:25:48 AM
I don't use antivirus software or malware software, i found it totally unnecessary , I do a full HDD image of every machine I have once a year, so if something goes out of control i got a quick solution.
OK, so actually you are dependent on the 3rd party utility for the integrity of your Windows installations. In that case probably all of them are corrupted in the same way somewhere in registry or low-level disk/controller drivers or other places that don't undergo integrity checking when cloning.
 
In the past we (my corp.) had site-license customers where the entire corporation was unable to successfully run our software. The thorough investigation had shown that all the failing machines were installed using some imaging software (Norton Ghost/Clone? for desktops, some vendor specific (Samsung Recovery Solution?) for laptops). Doing a clean install from the Microsoft distribution media miraculously cured all the problems.

I'm very suspect of the system maintenance practices in the Windows market segment since I learned the inside scoop about bankruptcy of 3dfx. Near the end all of their official corporate system images were having undetected corruption issues and the only the few developers who could do work were those who bough retail boxed Microsoft media. That was despite having spent literally millions on internal Windows IT management and consulting.

My corp. internally used Acronis and as far as I know they still haven't fixed the bugs I submitted to them years ago regarding imaging NTFS disks with files processed with some old Microsoft consumer photo editing software, which creates complex NTFS alternate streams. Edit: found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Picture_It!
 
442  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Bitcoin Qt wallet (win32 & 64) more and more corruption problems and reindexing on: November 08, 2015, 07:34:28 PM
Are your Windows installations relatively clean (of 3rd party utilities) or are you using e.g. same antivirus on all installations? Bugs in online antivirus programs are the most frequent issue with database-heavy applications, not just Bitcoin Core. Some antivirus engines automatically recognize popular database engines (e.g. MSSQL,Oracle,Sybase,...) and self-disable themselves on database files.

Edit: The most common corruption is in the "chainstate" directory. You can save yourself a lot of reindexing time by doing a backup of those directories using e.g. 7zip in "synchronize files" mode. In case of corruption just restore the known good chainstate and the reindexing will pickup near the end and will finish quicker.

443  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin core RPC compatible lite wallet proxy? on: November 02, 2015, 06:55:02 AM
Ok, we're talking about two completely different things here.  You're talking about large organizations with multiple corporations and bank accounts spread across the globe, who deal with 10s or 100s of millions in funds, and report to the likes of FinCEN, correct?  In that case, I doubt an out of the box solution would even be possible, because every system would have to be customized for that specific business (model).  I'm assuming folks like Bitstamp go with custom solutions, because they have millions in their budget to do so.

And yes, my solutions are meant for the small business owners, the 1 - 5 man shops or similar.  People that make say $100k - $500k/year.  For my target audience, my solutions work beautifully.

If you're looking towards folks like BitStamp, et al, then sounds as though the market is wide open for you, if you can put together even a base system that can be easily customized.  You're basically talking about writing your own node, correct?  That's a fairly adventurous task, and many have failed at trying, including myself.  Could be lucrative if you managed to pull it off though.  Probably wouldn't get too many clients, but when you're signing $1.5mm contracts, you don't really need many.

EDIT:  You mentioned the bitcoind & "accounting" servers must both be online, but that's not true.  If bitcoind goes down, when it comes back online, it'll begin firing all necessary "blocknotify" and "walletnotify" commands as it downloads the blockchain from where it left off.  Then just write a quick JSON API to communicate between the servers, queue the txs / blocks, send JSON request, if a proper response is received remove tx / block from queue.  If proper response not received, leave in queue and retry at regular intervals until proper response is received.

I don't buy your claim that your solutions "work beautifully". You are basically serving the market of "everyone knows the root password of the server". You can't properly provide elementary security like, e.g.

1) the web design subcontractor can't have the passwords to the accounting server
2) the are two independent web store fronts: the production one that is open 24*7 and the staging one for beta testing that is open intermittently and possibly managed by a different webmaster

It is also very telling that in your last paragraph you foresee closing down web front-end while having the accounting open. But the most real businesses operate in an opposite way: the web front end is open 24*7 but accounting is regularly being closed (weekly, monthly, quarterly) for periodic reporting and auditing.

I understand that there is a big market for "fly-by-nights" that essentially operate until the first audit by taxation authorities or first investigation by police/prosecution/regulators. I can't blame you for serving it, but I will stay away and always advise everyone else to stay away too.

There's a big disconnect between the two markets you mentioned: one-password shop with up to five people and multibillion corporation. The best example is what Microsoft targets with Server Essentials (a.k.a.) Small Business Server. The organizations of up to about 50 people who tend to subcontract various non-essential activities to the specialist firms. The people who know how to produce reports using Microsoft Access and why every commercial SQL database engine has some sort of per-column security.

Anyway, returning back to the ideas described in the opening post of this thread: it would be nice to have a Bitcoin engine that works somewhat like any other database engine. In the sense that you can start the engine itself to track the Bitcoin P2P network and then attach and detach wallets like one would attach and detach databases to the SQL engine.

But this isn't going to happen under current Bitcoin Core Development Team. In 2012 I mentioned something similar in the "What's the problem with getting Bitcoin compliant with GAAP???" and Gavin Andresen replied:
When I hear that, I hear "you should stop doing what you're doing for a year or two or three and re-implement the whole thing."

Yeah... no.  As much as that would be a fun project, I don't think that is the job of the team working on the existing reference implementation. Keeping the existing software and network running as smoothly as possible is the highest priority.
I think the current governance situation in the Core team could lead to the change in the general direction of the development. Time will show.
444  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: On the cover page of The Economist on: November 01, 2015, 09:06:25 PM
Wow guys, this is a huge freaking news! You have to earn a right to be in this magazine, let alone to be on the cover page! This will introduce Bitcoin to the higher class, more eminent people that are reading the Economist!

I can only say that Bitcoin is in a fifth gear when it comes to promotion, adoption and acknowledgement by the masses!
Ha, ha! The shrillest shills are the funniest.

Backstory to that cover is also on imgur: http://imgur.com/gallery/wV0UU
445  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin core RPC compatible lite wallet proxy? on: November 01, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
Also the RPC paradigm isn't really well suited for this concept: the communication between blockchain server component and wallet component must be two-way not one-way request-response.

Huh?  It's somewhat two-way.  Not completely, but there are "walletnotify" and "blocknotify" config options available, and combine that with the "importaddress" function if you're not using the wallet.dat file, and it will instantly notify your software of a new tx that's assigned to one of your addresses and every new block.

As for block reorgs, that's quite simple too.  For example, say you set it for 4 confirmations required.  Every time a new block is generated, your software immediately fires, adds 1 confirmation to each tx, then looks up each unconfirmed tx that has 4 confirmations, and ensures it's still a valid tx.  If not, bitcoind will show the confirmations at -1, meaning block reorg so you abandon that tx.  If it's still valid and showing 4 confs within the blockchain though, then you confirm it in your system.

Or am I missing something here?

What you describe is acceptable only to one-person shops or similar setups.

Most organizations will have clear interdepartmental security delineations and will have a preexisting accounting system already based on the (accounting, securities, etc.) prevailing standards.

"walletnotify" and "blocknotify" are really hacks that cross the security domain in wrong directions: from the Internet front end to the accounting servers. Only desperados will approve such architecture. The other problem with event callbacks are:
1) is that they require both caller & callee systems both online at the same time
2) they have no indication of the backlog of pending callbacks.

While conceptually handling chain reorganizations isn't terribly difficult it is also the feature that most often goes nearly completely untested. It is one of the most common failure modes in various solutions mentioned on this forum.

The other problem is purported scalability of having one blockchain and multiple wallet. Again the practice had show that people handle they wallet-synchronization code with tight poll loops and other similar lameness, that in practice multiple copies of bitcoind take less CPU and bandwidth resources only more storage. I think Stratum & Electrum is a good example: Stratum protocol in theory handles asynchronous notifications well, but its practical implementation in Electrum is plagued by horrible inefficiencies.

The last thing is that even if you solve all the above problems you still don't have a clean interface to the industry-standard accounting tools: Fix protocol in securities and various "middleware/message queueing" (like e.g. ZeroMQ) in general accounting. On the other hand the raw bitcoind can be run with -privdb=0 (and minimal patches) and allow to fully integrate with accounting back-ends thanks to the support for X/Open distributed transaction monitoring in BerkeleyDB than handles the wallet.

In summary: individual problems aren't difficult by themselves, the complexity is in integrating all of them. The sad state is that various folks peddle incomplete solutions plagued with tight poll loops and with untested/incorrect handling of chain reorganizations. The only exception was bitsofproof but it is back to being closed source. Almost nothing has changed in this space since I joined this forum sometime mid-2011.

You seem to be an advocate of Synala. I have one question: did your solution survived at least one accounting audit conducted to the prevailing accounting standards in your country?

Well, on the positive side I can at least observe that folks ceased to propose "use built-in accounts in bitcoind". Before those got officially marked as obsoleted this was the closest thing to the willful accounting fraud.

446  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin core RPC compatible lite wallet proxy? on: November 01, 2015, 05:14:32 AM
On my computer there is nothing about UTXO indexing in the original post.

I'm going to quote both posts until I see the clarification.

Those Electrum servers that couldn't keep up with the Bitcoin transaction stream during recent stress tests and were getting hours behind w.r.t. the live network?

Clearly you just don't know when to give up - you do realise that Electrum is not the only software that does UTXO indexing or do you not?

Maybe you should go and study indexing for a while before making more ridiculous posts.

Hint - check what the OP is asking about and stop going off on stupid tangents trying your best to show off some sort of technical knowledge that you clearly lack.

Is there a bitcoin core RPC compatible lite wallet available which proxies onto a full node for the data?

Use case: multiple merchant wallets, one blockchain, one API on one machine without having to duplicate the blockchain.

I have a full node running, which is great, but I need multiple wallets... Having lite wallet(s) which would get their data from my full node would be awesome and not have any of the trust issues a lite wallet would normally have.

I don't want to have to implement another RPC wrapper, so this needs to be compatible with the core RPC API.

Cheers, Paul.
447  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin core RPC compatible lite wallet proxy? on: November 01, 2015, 04:19:39 AM
Indexing UTXOs by address is not complex at all - and is exactly what projects like Electrum already do (clearly you are not very aware).
Are you talking about that Electrum client that uses Stratum protocol (designed by slush) to talk to Electrum servers?

Those Electrum servers that couldn't keep up with the Bitcoin transaction stream during recent stress tests and were getting hours behind w.r.t. the live network?

Or are you talking about something else?
448  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: bitcoin core 0.11.1 - System error while flushing: Database corrupted on: November 01, 2015, 03:57:13 AM
What other logs do you recommend I monitor for hardware errors?
On Raspberry Pi there's absolutely nothing in it that does error detection. This is a piece of hardware that is marginal in every respect, including minimalist quality assurance of the shipped products.

Think of RPi as RAIC: Redundant Array of Inexpensive Computers. You really need several of them (at least 2) running in parallel and constantly compare results.

The simplest thing to do in your case is to replace USB SSD with an USB connected spinning disk drive with separate power supply. It will take a little bit longer to initially synchronize but it will exclude the problem of a weak USB power supply.

The other way is to hook up your USB SSD through a separately powered USB hub.

Anyway, you really need to realize that if you think of running a financial application on a computer without ECC RAM you are in the state of sin. It is a road to nowhere except how to learn troubleshooting and fault localization skills.

449  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin core RPC compatible lite wallet proxy? on: October 31, 2015, 04:19:48 PM
It is a complex project, I'm not aware of anything open source.

Also the RPC paradigm isn't really well suited for this concept: the communication between blockchain server component and wallet component must be two-way not one-way request-response.

A producer-subscriber paradigm (like e.g. FIX protocol) is much better way to implement this, and once correctly implemented it nearly completely obviates the need for one-way RPC.

There were very buggy attempts to implement what you're asking by effectively replacing subscription pattern by a busy-wait loop with very frequent polling. But this was always ending with coding disaster that wouldn't handle chain reorganizations correctly.
450  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: bitcoin core 0.11.1 - System error while flushing: Database corrupted on: October 31, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
what else can I do to either pin it down that there is an actual hardware error
Make sure you stress simultaneous reading and writing to the same drive and that the drive is the bottleneck in both directions, not the network transfer.

My general (not bitcoin specific) recipe for triggering errors in disk controllers is as follows:

1) keep the source tree (e.g. ~/.bitcoin) on the local disk that is mounted read-only.
2) it is acceptable to have source over the net only if the net is gigabit
3) recursively compute MD5 checksum of the source tree
Code:
cd ~/.bitcoin; find . -depth -type f -exec md5sum "{}" \;
4) start filling out the target disk by doing the recursive copy, not with "cp -r" or "scp -r" but with piped tar "tar cf - . | tar xvf -" or cpio "find . -depth | cpio -o | cpio -i"
5) as soon as the first copy is made spawn running in parallel MD5 checksum verification of the sums computed in step (3)
6) continue running step (4) and (5) until the last copy fail with target disk nearly 100% full
7) remove exactly one target copy making room for exactly one more copy of source
8) keep doing the above over a weekend

I'm not up to speed about current SSD market, but in the past only Intel SSD drives survived this kind of torture. Only Intel from the "reasonably priced" segment, we also tested some models from "ridiculously expensive" segment.  Our test also involved doing very similar things running through commercial database engines over many drives in parallel (not as RAID but as FILEGROUP).

451  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: The altcoin topic everyone wants to sweep under the rug on: October 24, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
I do believe the authorities are just letting these scams pile up on top of each other, so they can bring a wave of massive regulation once the economy turns down hard in 2017 or 2018. The authorities will become very motivated once the economy goes south.
The simpler explanation is that "the authorities" already have a mole and simply continue to gather evidence. I know very little about Dash, but I remember what happened during the days of "Bitcoin Consultancy" operating in Europe and Bitomat.pl acquisition by Mt.Gox. At that time not even "the authorities" would gather evidence, the regular private gumshoes did, the circle of users was so small.

When both Bitcoin Consultancy and Bitomat disappeared the gathered information was used to close down and prosecute some controlled-substances distribution rings in Europe. Bitcoin acted as a sort of honey-pot, as it tended to attract businesspeople who weren't well-served by the regular banking transfer network SEPA.

Further back in history I remember that some early arrests of Al-Quaeda functionaries were thanks to the secret cooperation of the employees of Swisscom EasyROAM subsidiary.

452  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 24, 2015, 04:28:35 PM
Your other points continue to belie the ability to separate concerns that are clearly delineated in the law as orthogonal. I will respond to those in detail in a future post, but really if you don't have anything new and just repeating the same myopia, eventually I am going to see this as a waste of time. But I'll go one more round (or so) to see if you can (or have) presented any new point. That you apparently don't realize that you continue repeating the same point is instructive of your inability to extract the generative essence from orthogonal concerns which was quite apparent to me in the way you were responding in Nagle's thread.
Certain facts bear repeating, both now in this thread and in the past in the other threads.

You and other people tend to be missing the fact that most successful securities prosecutions in the USA were against promoters and sales agents. The courts spent very little time considering the nature of the underlying security. Most of the time was spent analyzing the "economic reality" of the promoter who sold "something" to the buyers and the promoter gained money while buyers lost money.

Erik Vorhees got of relatively easy because he astutely traded the Bitcoins raised by his issues and (after advice of his counsel) preempted prosecution by simply rebuying/repaying all the holders of his securities. Because the buyers had no loss to show the SEC had very weak case that basically consisted of "missing paperwork".

If you can design your "cryptographic protocol" in such a way that its users/buyers are highly unlikely to lose money and the managers/sellers are highly unlikely gain the money at the expense of the former, then it is the best defense against any prosecution in any jurisdiction.

One thing that you have in common with all the others successfully prosecuted in the USA is your plain and innate desire for attention and self-promotion. Conceivably you could be raising about the same money working quietly behind some figureheads (either persons or organizations). This is how the traditional securities industry is organized: the responsibility is spread over multiple layers underwriters, syndicators, sales brokers, etc. It seems like you abhor working with other professionals on the equal terms and always want to do it alone. In particular I clearly sense that you didn't even go to a friendly lunch with some securities lawyer. Your style of argumentation shows that you can't distinguish between "arguing the case" and "arguing with a person". Theoretically you could change and obtain a securities counsel and listen to his advice. But I feel that that would completely go against your personality and your goals in life.

TL;DR: Yup, it is the promoters that most often get prosecuted in the securities litigation.
453  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 24, 2015, 05:06:10 AM
Here's a short quote from a first Google result when searching for a properly spelled "Howey test":

The courts have rejected attempts to narrow the definition of a security. As one opinion put it, “In searching for the meaning and scope of the word ‘security’ . . . form should be disregarded for substance and the emphasis should be on economic reality.”

Courts have frequently examined the promotional materials associated with an instrument in determining whether it is a security.  If the materials promise things like great returns or guaranteed income, the court will almost certainly find the instrument to be a security, and therefore subject to federal securities regulations.

Edit: Another relevant quote from the same article:
A common enterprise is a venture ‘in which the “fortunes of the investor are interwoven with and dependent upon the efforts and success of those seeking the investment . . . .”’  It is not necessary that the funds of investors are pooled; what must be shown is that the fortunes of the investors are linked with those of the promoters, thereby establishing the requisite element of vertical commonality. Thus, a common enterprise exists if a direct correlation has been established between success or failure of the promoter’s efforts and success or failure of the investment.
454  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 24, 2015, 04:43:29 AM
Hey, this discussion is getting really cool and entertaining. I'm going to quote your response in full so we can get back to it few years from now.

I think you clearly plan to promote and distribute a security in the USA but you plan to sidestep the registration requirements by claiming that your security is not a security.

In the nascent days of securities regulation in the USA one Charles Ponzi traded Universal Postal Union International Reply Coupons. UPU IRC clearly weren't securities, yet Ponzi was successfully prosecuted.

In the nascent days of Bitcoin regulation in the USA one Erik Vorhees launched several Bitcoin-based securities while simultaneously running diversionary campaigns like "Let's end one debate: Commodity vs Money" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47111.0 . He settled with SEC by disgorging all profits (repurchased all his securities) and paying some fine.

In the criminal defense there is a maxim that anyone who defends himself pro se had hired a fool for his defense counsel. I have a feeling that you've also hired a fool for your securities counsel.

IANAL, but I really like to talk with them and I will be watching this space for further developments. The past experience with Bitcointalk was that no real IAAL will post in this thread, but I would love to be proven wrong.

Also could you do all the readers a favor and start spelling Howey correctly? You keep spelling it "Howe test" which makes it hard to search for the actual precedents.


Are you seriously trying to cite an "invitation for comments" from some law firm as a legal precedent having valid legal standing in USA law?

Much better divagations were posted by John Nagle in 2011:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46486.0

I was citing the Supreme Court case of SEC vs. Howe. Even I see Nagle doesn't quite understand (or articulate) the generative essence of that case. And you were so far off in the thread, I just smiled.

Your appeals to authority are for b-listers who get their nose bent out-of-joint:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1404

Quote
I’m going to be specific about what I mean by “ego” now, because otherwise much of this essay may seem vague or wrongheaded. I specifically mean psychologial egotism, not (for example) ethical egoism as a philosophical position. The main indicators of egotism as I intend it here are are loud self-display, insecurity, constant approval-seeking, overinflating one’s accomplishments, touchiness about slights, and territorial twitchiness about one’s expertise. My claim is that egotism is a disease of the incapable, and vanishes or nearly vanishes among the super-capable.

It’s not only scientific fields where this is true. For various reasons (none of which, fortunately, have been legal troubles of my own) I’ve had to work with a lot of lawyers. I’m legally literate, so a pattern I quickly noticed is this: the B-list lawyers are the ones who get all huffy about a non-attorney expressing opinions and judgments about the law. The one time I worked with a stratospherically supercompetent A-list firm (I won’t name them, but I will note they have their own skyscraper in New York City) they were so relaxed about recognizing capability in a non-lawyer that some language I wrote went straight into their court filings in a lawsuit with multibillion-dollar stakes.

I'll get back to your unspecific strawmen in due time. You are may or may not have a point, yet avoid making a specific point and toss around vagaries instead. Make your case with specifics. I did.

If you find that I am annoyed, then yes because I expect you to cite for me specific case law and give examples and show that you know what the fuck you are talking about, and not just spout off appeals to authority, insults, and vague intersections of general concepts. So far, I've seen you commit logic errors in this thread, and on quick glance maybe more in that thread with Nagle.

You can very well be trained in many concepts and be able to spout off babble, but can you elucidate convincingly.


Sigh. Demonstrating how one is not involved in an "investment security" per the Howe test precedent is not an affirmative loophole defense. It is a defense against the alleged crime. The prosecution must prove the defendant has met the test under the Securities Act and subsequent clarifying case law of what an "investment security" entails.

And you are totally off in left-field again (as you were in the thread with Nagle) in that Regulation S safe harbor is not the defense I was citing. I was citing the defense that no investment security was ever created per the Howe test which defines what constitutes an investment security.

c) you are misapplying reasoning rooted in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitorial_system to an old case from 1946 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_v._W._J._Howey_Co.


The AdSurfDaily case he mentioned ended in imprisonment of Bowdoin in 2012. It would be a much better source for a precedent involving cryptocurrencies in 2015 than some old cases from the 1st half of the 20th century.

You cite that as a precedent but it is entirely inconsistent with the genre of scenario I was describing in this thread.

http://networkmarketinglaw.com/securities-law/v-bowdoin-dc-cir-march-18-2011/

Quote
The Indictment alleges that Mr. Bowdoin perpetrated a scheme to defraud the members of ASD. Specifically, it alleges that Mr. Bowdoin solicited prospective customers to ASD based upon, among other things, his promise to use their funds to operate what was represented to be a profitable Internet advertising company capable of providing high returns on the funds they paid to ASD. Over the course of two years, Mr. Bowdoin is alleged to have made numerous misrepresentations and omissions in order to raise funds including: claiming to be operating a legitimate Internet advertising company; asserting that ASD had independent revenue to pay members the returns promised; representing that Mr. Bowdoin’s only run-in with law enforcement consisted of a traffic ticket, when he had been convicted already of criminal securities violations; representing that the revenue methodology and numbers ASD published in support of its payouts were true and accurate, when ASD was really managing its revenue to ensure that it only paid out about one percent (1%) of a member’s investment each weekday and one-half a percent (.5%) on the weekends; representing that ASD was not required to register with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC); and representing that Mr. Bowdoin was operating ASD in a far different manner than that which he followed.

First of all, the defendant was managing a common enterprise using the advertiser's funds and make representations to them. I already pointed out in my scenario up thread, that there would never be any operating common enterprise where funds were received and investors were waiting on returns from the common enterprise being managed by the developer.

Your cited case law is inapplicable and I refer back to SEC vs. Howe until you can find another case which overturns it w.r.t. to my scenario.

Otherwise please take your amateurish snobbish crap and very low powers of logic and discernment else where, because you are wasting my precious and scarce time.
455  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 24, 2015, 01:35:09 AM

Are you seriously trying to cite an "invitation for comments" from some law firm as a legal precedent having valid legal standing in USA law?

I mentioned "pork bellies" as a good example. Although pork bellies are not traded on Chicago Mercantile Exchange since 2011, the legal analysis of "When and how a pig can become a security subject to regulation?" is still a valid exam problem for the law students.



Well almost anything one can do in life could make one culpable to multiple jeopardy  when considering the vagaries of a multiple of legal systems and common laws. My point was to address the reasonably well defined securities regulatory law where it is so encoded. I considered the USA and EU (not each EU country) for starters.

It seems to me that if what you've done is reasonably in line with the very strict USA securities law, you've done good disclosure (i.e. enumerated risks, what you provide and don't provide, etc), and you've done a fair deal and not egregiously harmed any one, then the risks are about the same as committing 3 felonies a day just by breathing.

And my points are:

a) you have no legal training
b) you seem to lack even amateur's appreciation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_system and how it applies to a common law land like USA
c) you are misapplying reasoning rooted in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitorial_system to an old case from 1946 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_v._W._J._Howey_Co.

d) you seem to be searching for a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense loophole to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_Act_of_1933#Regulation_S

While I understand and commiserate with your general position about societal over-lawyering I also observe that your legalistic divagations are of very low quality.

Much better divagations were posted by John Nagle in 2011:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46486.0

but regretfully many of the links are no longer working. The AdSurfDaily case he mentioned ended in imprisonment of Bowdoin in 2012. It would be a much better source for a precedent involving cryptocurrencies in 2015 than some old cases from the 1st half of the 20th century.

456  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 23, 2015, 10:22:28 PM
I hope you can see that can't have a promotion of a security, if it never is a security.
False. "Pork belly" is not a security. "Pork belly futures/options/participation shares" were securities subject to the regulation and oversight.

In civil law you only need to prove the preponderance of the evidence and not beyond any reasonable doubt. But at least that removes the criminal liability.
Miscommunication. You seem to be thinking of USA exclusively. I'm writing to a worldwide audience because this forum is not limited to the "American" readers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)

457  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Which crypto-coins are "investment securities"? Implications? on: October 23, 2015, 09:46:46 PM
IANAL, but I spent a lot of time on the meetings with lawyers, including securities lawyers (but not related to cryptocoins).


Only the developers truly have the influence to alter the protocol and have it widely adopted. So in my mind the test is whether the developers are acting like an organized controlling manager of the coin.
A) under common law systems:

Your idea of "managerial control" is way to narrow. You've completely neglected the promotion and sales of securities and "managerial control" of said sales and promotion.

Therefore most of your analysis in invalid. One could probably come up with a case where the "security" itself is valid, but was promoted and sold in an invalid way.

B) under civil law systems:

The story is completely different. Under those systems the securities law tends to root in the Roman law concept of "depositum irregulare".

One more thing you seem to be neglecting is that the current prevailing common law definition of "conspiracy" doesn't require a proof of communication between the distributed co-conspirators. It is sufficient for prosecution to show that all "conspirators" acted in furtherance of their common goal.
458  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: A quick idea, mining tokens on: October 21, 2015, 06:16:48 PM
It is just something to consider, mining tokens. I didn't find it with search.
It was discussed earlier on this forum under the term "licensed mining".
By "earlier" I mean couple of years ago.
459  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs on: October 09, 2015, 09:36:00 PM
I'll just quote this in the entirety for the posterity. I was actually expecting the visits and comments from the competing hustlers.

Anyway: everyone knows that the proof of the cook is in the pudding. Proof of the EE is in that his design doesn't suffer from the problems that are taught at the undergraduate levels. I don't have an easy way to dig through my textbooks, so I'll just cite what I remember off the top of my head:

Intel 8080 was from 1974 and required careful sequencing of power up to work properly and avoid damage.

Intel 8085 was from 1975 and was free of power sequencing requirements.

Zilog Z80 was from 1976 and was not only free from power sequencing requirements but had a patented way of powering up and resetting to enable special debug mode.

(From Wikipedia) In 1977 engineers at Hughes Aircraft invented general circuit for protecting CMOS IC's from latch-up.

I'm not in the mood for devising of the wall jokes, but this situation really calls for some satire.

How about:

Spondoolies: the honey badger of SHA-256 mining: it comes up correctly no matter in which order you plug in its subsystems.

Maybe someone has or can cheaply find an undergraduate digital logic design textbook from 1980 (or later) and send one for the benefit of the designers at BitMainTech?

Edit: Also, for somebody who's a native English speaker or a decent poet: can someone come up with a version of "Timex: takes on lickin' and keeps on tickin'". Something like "Spondoolies: takes on plugin' and keeps on hashin'".
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the engineering staff at that Chinese company doesn't have a real engineering degree but some sort of "work experience" degree after serving in one of those remote technical help call centers.
That was the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Many of the sales staff have post graduate electronics degrees.


It is very easy for me to pontificate here because I have all the experience required:
1) I helped many very non-technical artists help set up and maintain their "render farm" which is the finishing stage of ray tracing in computer animation.
2) I worked for many years in hardware design and I know how to recognize common hardware faults and properly fix them.
tldr something something computers in the 1990's so clearly know more than ASIC, electrical and software engineers combined. Could throw together an S7/SP50 killer in a weekend /s.
460  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs on: October 09, 2015, 06:52:56 PM
Typical ego driven puffering... This entire conversation started because of a misidentified piece of hardware (no it wasn't a UPS) and the point was there are some circumstances, albeit limited where it may make sense.. I am not going to presume I know all of the details of the environments you've deployed hardware in, big or small, and you don't know the specifics of every miner who has ever deployed hardware..

Don't be so presumptuous..
Well, I do know a lot about hardware and I can recognize real technical problems from the cargo-cult and voodoo-chicken-blood inspired pseudo-solutions.
You would however have to check first that it is acceptable to have the Controller Board powered and the Hash Boards not? For instance Bitmains latest S5+ & S7 both require that the Hash Boards are powered before the Controller Board is fired up. It's all to easy to pontificate using generalities when we are not in possession of the detail. Smiley

Rich
I wouldn't be surprised if the engineering staff at that Chinese company doesn't have a real engineering degree but some sort of "work experience" degree after serving in one of those remote technical help call centers.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latch-up is something discussed in every electronic engineering course and any competent student would know how to deal with and avoid this problem.
End edit.

It is very easy for me to pontificate here because I have all the experience required:

1) I helped many very non-technical artists help set up and maintain their "render farm" which is the finishing stage of ray tracing in computer animation.
2) I worked for many years in hardware design and I know how to recognize common hardware faults and properly fix them.

The "home mining" market is based on pandering to the lowest common denominators of the users, the ones who even have to be explained where on the wall they have to plug in their device.

I had a good fortune on having worked with non-technical people in other markets (animation artists and medical doctors) where such pandering is neither expected nor provided. I really do know what kind of technical work can be expected from people without technical education but with common sense and self-respect.

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