Why would it, how could it possibly by so? Are you suggesting I somehow gain traffic by artificially lowering BFL's rating in this thread? Are you suggesting that for the 8 months this resource had no ads in, that increased niche of 'BFL circlejerk troll' traffic somehow made me money? I cut out the rest of our diatribe because it's pointless to argue with you. You won't admit, even though everyone else here agrees, that your guide is biased, if for no other reason than you made a category... I mean a "tier" named BFL. There's nothing biased about that, oh no. That said, you absolutely, positively did gain traction on your guide by bashing BFL. If you had been honest and impartial in your guide, BFL would be rated higher and you'd have all the trolls bitching and moaning and whining and making you out to be the devil and your guide would have gone exactly nowhere. You banked on the hate train and gained your dubious reputation directly off the back of BFL. So yes, absolutely you gained traffic by artifically lowering BFLs rating. That is painfully obvious. It's not about making money (or lack thereof) it's about gaining traffic and mindshare. You know this, you're just being hyperbolic... again. Watch, the name of that score level changed. Oh look, nothing else changed! Ah yes, because its an effect and not a cause. Its just a descriptor nothing to do with setting the actual rating as I've explained. You're saying I gained traffic by artificially setting BFL low in order to placate 'BFL trolls' and prevent them flooding the thread. But if I set BFL higher, then the guide would have been flooded with posts about how BFL was too high, creating more traffic. You just blew my mind. ......... Anyway, lets pretend for a second that your logic wasn't totally fucked, lets look at the traffic numbers. Lets pretend for a second that by some witchcraft your voodoo logic means my traffic increased by 5%. This guide's views make up less than 5% of my views on the forums. So I gained 0.25% readership or 1,487 views over 7 months, hurrah! The trust system works as long as companies don't pay people to discredit those they see as opponents as you did. You're essentially saying 'you did it to me so I did it to you', right?
If someone can pay others to game the system, then the system DOESN'T WORK. Dude, are you this oblivious to your contradictions in real life or do you just not read what you write after you write it? I can only imagine what actually talking to you face to face is like, it must be an absolutely mindblowing experience. Saying the system is flawed doesn't work when it requires breaking the law to induce 'breaking' it. Its only because you work for a huge company that you know no one can do anything about it. At least give me the decency of confirming the real motive behind the competition... 1) You chose me as a target of the competition/experiment because it was beneficial to BFL to have me discredited/because you believed I was spreading false information about BFL. 2) You hoped/believed that users would tarnish my trust rating such that others would be less willing to listen to me. 3) You hoped/believed it would damage my reputation/discredit me from doing business in the future. 4) You hoped/believed it would damage my income. 5) You hoped/believed that I would stop producing content and your business would increase. That's right isn't it Josh? |
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Yes, because the "energy" was so tremendous. It took all of about 20 minutes. Nice strawman.
As for your negative ratings, do you agree that the trust system is broken? Then if so, your rating doesn't matter.
If you do not agree, then the rating system is working as intended and your rating is just.
In either case, it doesn't matter. But to answer your flawed conclusion... let me ask you this. How many people have seen your biased guide containing all manner of false information? More than 327 I would imagine. So I use you as an example to show a flawed system and you in turn post false information and mislead many more people with your guide. You probably shouldn't talk about ethics.
You targeted me because I was maintaining an impartial resource which stated clearly that it was my personal interpretation and to be supplemented by a buyer's own research. That's what the -9 BFL category was for, quite simply because I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of your smear campaign or draw more attention to it should you be the target of any retaliation. You would have picked up OOF or OFL anyway and still be on 1 point regardless so it made no difference to your rating. In fact, I think you're equivalent rating has gone up quite considerably since you started your smear campaign - even ignoring the fact that you just went up more than any other company in the last adjustment. Of course it matters, I earn my livelihood from relationships I develop - both current and new - from these forums. You saw a quick and dirty opportunity that might benefit yourself at my expense and you went for it even though you knew it would almost certainly damage my ability to do business. You were not and are not maintaining an impartial resource. I think everyone here agrees with that, but you. But you keep promoting it as such, thereby misleading anyone and everyone who has read it. Do you even know what "impartial" means? You can't have an impartial resource that is your "personal interpretation" those things are mutually exclusive. Impartial means you base it only on facts, not your interpretation. To further the farce, you even created an entire CATEGORY named BFL. How on earth do you possibly maintain that it is impartial? Do you even hear yourself? Now, you made the claim that you "can't just rate someone a 1 because you don't like them" to someone else, and I pointed out that you are doing just that, among many other dishonest acts. I've given you fact based examples of why your guide is flawed and you've responded with more "personal interpretation" devoid of any supporting documentation or evidence. I also pointed out your inconsistent criteria that you establish and then throw away IN THE SAME POST, and yet you maintain that your guide is impartial?! Are you serious? Then if it matters, why don't you lobby Theymos to fix it? If it works as intended, then the trust system should not so easily be gamed. If it does not work as intended, it needs to be fixed. Your livelyhood? What about mine? You saw a quick and dirty opportunity to jump on the BFL hate bandwagon to boost your guide to the trolls and you took it. Now you're complaining about it happening to you? Please. Cry me a river. Don't be so hypocritical. Hey, dogie, when are you going to invite me over to your half million dollar home fully paid for with bitcoins from your personal account for dinner to discuss over eats how Josh sold EMC to BFL, but lead ALL its customers that he, alone, was the sole proprietor until it was realized he hadn't been since at least Q4, 2012, thanks to a press release depicting Sonny's probation, et al., via court documents? [I'm confused, have you crossed names in this post?] |
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You were not and are not maintaining an impartial resource. I think everyone here agrees with that, but you. But you keep promoting it as such, thereby misleading anyone and everyone who has read it. Do you even know what "impartial" means? You can't have an impartial resource that is your "personal interpretation" those things are mutually exclusive. Impartial means you base it only on facts, not your interpretation. To further the farce, you even created an entire CATEGORY named BFL. How on earth do you possibly maintain that it is impartial? Do you even hear yourself?
Now, you made the claim that you "can't just rate someone a 1 because you don't like them" to someone else, and I pointed out that you are doing just that, among many other dishonest acts. I've given you fact based examples of why your guide is flawed and you've responded with more "personal interpretation" devoid of any supporting documentation or evidence. I also pointed out your inconsistent criteria that you establish and then throw away IN THE SAME POST, and yet you maintain that your guide is impartial?! Are you serious?
Then if it matters, why don't you lobby Theymos to fix it? If it works as intended, then the trust system should not so easily be gamed. If it does not work as intended, it needs to be fixed. Your livelyhood? What about mine? You saw a quick and dirty opportunity to jump on the BFL hate bandwagon to boost your guide to the trolls and you took it. Now you're complaining about it happening to you? Please. Cry me a river. Don't be so hypocritical.
Its impartial because I have no personal qualms with any company. You think I do, but that's your opinion, it does not make it a fact. The guide is my personal interpretation because I am not a computer and as such it is not possible for me to pull numbers from the cloud autonomously. Therefore, this guide is my impartial interpretation. There is no category named BFL. There is a result tier named BFL, which BFL was promoted out of. And as explained earlier it is not a rating criteria but the RESULT of the rating. Such that an unhygienic takeaway is labelled as F, not any 'F's are unhygienic by virtue of being 'F's. Its also a coloquial term for a less than perfect transaction. You're trying to misquote and twist what I'm saying, again again. I've shorted what would be many, many, many ethical infractions which would put you far into negative points, into three letters because that's all that fits at this resolution and with what I can do with BBCODE formatting and 33,000 characters per post. I gain nothing, NOTHING by your buyers being unhappy and I would love nothing more than for monarch to have come out in December and everyone to have been happy. You'd have made (more) money, buyers would have ROI'ed nicely, you wouldn't have had to do the PCB revisions, blah blah blah. Could have probably taped out the next gen and been selling in hand by now or something. And I'd have been happy for you, because again it does not benefit me what so ever for your customers to be unhappy. Why would it, how could it possibly by so? Are you suggesting I somehow gain traffic by artificially lowering BFL's rating in this thread? Are you suggesting that for the 8 months this resource had no ads in, that increased niche of 'BFL circlejerk troll' traffic somehow made me money? The trust system works as long as companies don't pay people to discredit those they see as opponents as you did. You're essentially saying 'you did it to me so I did it to you', right? |
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I'm now getting the same issue as the above user. Anyone notice that the hardware is x.x.x.x and no cgminer?
Any fixes?
The fix for most has been to reimage the SD card, and if that doesn't fix it, to replace the SD card. |
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Yes, because the "energy" was so tremendous. It took all of about 20 minutes. Nice strawman.
As for your negative ratings, do you agree that the trust system is broken? Then if so, your rating doesn't matter.
If you do not agree, then the rating system is working as intended and your rating is just.
In either case, it doesn't matter. But to answer your flawed conclusion... let me ask you this. How many people have seen your biased guide containing all manner of false information? More than 327 I would imagine. So I use you as an example to show a flawed system and you in turn post false information and mislead many more people with your guide. You probably shouldn't talk about ethics.
You targeted me because I was maintaining an impartial resource which stated clearly that it was my personal interpretation and to be supplemented by a buyer's own research. The -9 BFL category wasn't even required for the smear campaign, as I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of it or draw more attention to it should you be the target of any retaliation. You would have picked up OOF or OFL anyway and still be on 1 point regardless so it made no difference to your rating. In fact, I think you're equivalent rating has gone up quite considerably since you started your smear campaign - even ignoring the fact that you just went up more than any other company in the last adjustment. Of course it matters, I earn my livelihood from relationships I develop - both current and new - from these forums. You saw a quick and dirty opportunity that might benefit yourself at my expense and you went for it even though you knew it would almost certainly damage my ability to do business. |
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Scanned the thread for suggestions and couldn't find the corsair cs series mentioned.
80PLUS Gold
Semi modular
450-850W
Added CS, just waiting on Theymos to inject me some additional posts as I'm at the character cap. Sweet What r your thoughts on the 750 and cs850 Doesn't seem to be a justification for the price premium over the CXMs. Yes its a higher efficiency but that's about it. |
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Dogie can you send instructions on how to set up an 800 GH ASIC tube from ASIC puppy?
Thats what the entire first post is. |
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Currently:
MariaQin : 2 @ 0.40
Bitcrane-Tech : 1 @ 0.40
topminingcontracts: 2 @ 0.40
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Why should I not pick someone who is actively and prominently spreading false information? The point is that anyone, no matter how highly or lowly regarded can game the system with ease. Picking an abandoned account that can't defend itself would not prove the point. Picking an account, in this case yours, that would vigorously defend itself and still end up with a shitcan rating illustrates how broken the system is.
So as COO of BFL, you preferred to incentivise your forum members to discredit me rather than spend that energy to improve your company and so improve your rating... I have 327 negative ratings thanks to you, does that make your happy? |
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Ok, so who is complaining about the compensation? They are being given a full refund, more hashrate or a combination of the two. What more do you want?
You're the one that is complaining. You want a higher score in that category than you're entitled to at this point, or any other company gets. Ship more, be patient, receive a higher score for this generation. We stop taking orders and that's not an "effort to change that?" LOL... what is an effort to change that then, if not that?
I'm not saying stopping taking preorders isn't a good thing, but you have to replace it with something. The wording of that category might be in the negative but thats because it assume that all companies are actually selling something. Ie if you're not using preorders, you're selling you're main revenue and business model based of in hand hardware. You're developing and taking the risk off the customers backs and putting it on your own. It seems that's what you're heading towards so good on you. But you can't eat the cake until its baked yet - be patient and you'll be rewarded. You never said two weeks was in regards to shipping? Then what is it in regards to, pray tell? As far as being banned from the BFL forums, please provide actual evidence, not your supposition. Once again, you make claims but you can't actually back them up with evidence. You provide the evidence and I will explain to you exactly why that person was banned, with evidence to back up my claim. See, that's the difference between you and me. I back up my claims with evidence, you have yet failed to do so.
As far as "paying people to discredit you." What a pompous, self important ass you are. It was about showing what a joke the trust rating system is, not about you. I don't care one whit about you. You were just a convenient demonstration piece, being as you are active in spreading false information on the forums, so a logical choice for the demonstration. The fact that you are upset about it proves my point, so thanks for confirming that the trust system is a broken joke. How is that discrediting you, if the trust system works? If the trust system doesn't work, how are you discredited? It's not about you and never has been. Deflate your ego a little bit, man. I was referring to the fact that two weeks had become synonymous with BFL and it doesn't just happen overnight. Sure the original statement gets taken out of context and sensationalised, but it gets done so around a core theme which in this case is 'its coming soon, in a bit, bit more, bit more, nearly there.' [Can we let this bit of the discussion thread die now, its hashed out more than a USB miner and gone a bit OT]. There was 290,000 members on the forums at the time. You chose Theymos as one. Why was I chosen as one of the other two? Why was it 'convenient' that I was chosen to be bombarded with negative trust out of all those possibilities? You could have chosen abandoned accounts, your own accounts or accounts you'd made purposely for the 'experiment' as you called it. Instead, you chose me. Why? |
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I do have to agree this guide is not really unbiased. Inaba does actually bring up a valid point about having a BFL rating. I think BFL should be rated really low, but to have a BFL rating does make it sort of personal. Also how on earth is a scam company like Avalon rated higher than Bitmain? They renamed after fucking over everyone and all is forgiven? I think Dogie does a nice job with these guides and stuff, but he has always liked Avalon and his ratings kind of show it imo. Also you are now paid by AM? so almost impossible to be impartial imo.
Read a few posts up, there is no BFL rating. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691.msg8843681#msg8843681They're not a scam company, my god. They've been delivering in hand hardware for OVER a year now. Not that they were a scam to begin with. Not that Canaan Creative is Avalon. Not that Yifu has been there for 12-15 months. Bitmain went down because they used preorders on the L1, and long preorders at that. Once they stop using preorders (and Josh, continue selling in hand hardware only), they'll return back to 16/20. No I'm not paid by AM, but I may be in the future to provide UK and EU returns for the Tube. People are (rightly) complaining that they have to send boxes back to CN/HK to RMA. If I am it will be declared, as like everything else I do in this industry its done in absolute transparency even when its not required. |
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What is your definition of "few" then? 10? 50? 100? 500? 1000? 10,000?
As many as is considered acceptable by customers. Having a backlog of orders behind schedule isn't considered acceptable - unless they're being compensated acceptably. Note thats actually being compensated, not promised to be compensated. Easily. We have not accepted any orders for months... I think we discontinued it in May for the 28nm line, almost 1/2 a year ago. Here, let me quote you a few sentences ago: "The system is weighted heavily on the immediate past" ... so what does the 65nm line have to do with it? So which is it, is it weighted on the immediate past or is it since last year? Make up your mind.
Eh? You're saying "we don't use preorders" on the basis that you don't take any sales at all. In that case you should be removed from the list entirely because you're not an ASIC company in the recent few months right? You're business model is currently preorder based and until you make an effort to change that you will remain 1/20 for that category. Who is suing individually and in a class action? The Woodlawn thing is not a class action suit and probably never will be. The one other lawsuit is just as laughable. So there are exactly two lawsuits pending, the rest have been either dismissed or I think there might be summary judgement since BFL was never actually served properly. If they had been, those cases would have been dismissed as well. There's a reason none of the lawsuits have been successful when they actually make it to court.
Do you have a link to any cases I can view online so I can review? The papers from Woodlaw schedule show nothing to prevent it being a class action. See, you are lying again. First of all, as I stated in the previous post, I never said two weeks in regards to shipping. Please prove me wrong with a quote. If I have said it, I said in an isolated post, but I've been unable to find any evidence of it. The only "two weeks" I've ever commented on was Bruno's stupid FCC tirade. No one has been banned for saying anything negative about BFL on the BFL forums. Your statement to the contrary is easily falsified by browsing the forums and looking at the negative posts. People are banned for trolling, posting the same junk over and over or posting false information (usually repeatedly). It has nothing to do with negativity and everything to do with post content and presentation. Please demonstrate evidence to the contrary.
I have no idea what you're babbling about when you talk about paying people to discredit them. WTF? Conspiracy much? And I never said the two weeks was in regards to shipping. Saying no one has ever been banned from the BFL forums for saying anything negative though is pretty laughable though. Every time you ban an innocent they come over here and make a post along the lines of "yeah I just said "when can we expect x y z and got permabanned? :/." I'm not one of those obsessed with your company and I'm not going to turn this into a quote war. I'm not even going to invite anyone else to do so because I don't want this thead to turn into BFL vs the world like the other 10 threads. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html You paid your customers to discredit me. Oh, this isn't your guide? You didn't create it? The only reason BFL was "in it" was because you are biased and opinionated. You don't take actual facts into consideration, just your own personal feelings. Once again, I point out the facts and you respond with hyperbole, myths and lies. This is your guide, you created the category. That is a lie right there. I've already refuted the rest of your claims, yet you cling to them without providing a shred of evidence or proof. You've not pointed out any facts, nor presented any evidence. You keep saying "that's a lie that's a lie" yet you're not actually talking about anything, its hard to argue against that :s I'm highly biased against you.
Well, at least you go that part right. Its a shame you made that quote up. GL with your talk. But yeah, if I arbitrarily set companies I didn't like to 1 then why would I have just raised BFLs score more than any other company in the latest update? According to you I'm highly biased against you.
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What I'm talking about is this: Rating System
Position in the list signifies trustworthiness, the higher the better. A perfect score is 100 and the worst possible score is 10. Criteria includes the use of preorders, prompt delivery, the investment of custom chips, hardware and refund issues, communication ability, ethical behaviour and company size.
90+ = AAA tier firm
80+ = A tier firm
70+ = B tier firm, solid company but can improve practises
50+ = C tier firm, issues to be resolved
30+ = D tier firm, significant issues or problems
30- = BFL tier
No amount of improvement in their service, is going to matter to you guys, cuz you made it personal. You're no longer objective, and you're just going to keep on bashing BFL no matter what, solely because they're BFL and you got your crusade that takes precedence. I have my own issues with BFL, but that doesn't stop me from being objective, and the maintainers of this list should have the personal integrity to be objective too, or they're no better than the level of ethics they accuse BFL of, themselves. 1) That's not a rating criteria, thats the result of being rated. Its like energy efficiency:  Saying a bulb is F or G efficiency doesn't make it inefficient - it was inefficient in the first place and calling it F or G is just a label to represent that inefficiency. 2) Please stop confusing me with Bicknellski. He has qualms with BFL but they are separate from my discussion and this guide. He has his own guide here. Speak about ours separately, we don't act together. |
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I can't just set all their scores to 1 because you don't like them, its not how it works.
Are you serious? That's exactly how it works. Lets see here: BFL: Delivered miners? Few ... I mean, it's not like BFL hasen't delivered over 50k miners or anything. I guess anyone who's delivered less than 50k miners has delivered "few." Oh wait... that doesn't jive with the rest of your chart. Uses preorders? Yes ... O Rly? BFL Hasn't taken preorders in months. Additionally we were and are selling off the shelf miners from the 65nm generation. Refund Issues? BFL has been issuing refunds to anyone and everyone who asks for them prior to delivery of their order for awhile now. Prior to that, any order that was over 6 months old was refundable in full. Communication? We are more open about our process and timeline than just about anyone else in the industry. Ethics: You've created a special category with our name because you don't like us, plain and simple. So what's this BS about "I can't just set all their scores to 1 because you don't like them" again? That's all your guide is, there's nothing objective about it. You set scores arbitrarily based off of zero facts or figures. It's all about your flawed, biased opinion. At least Bickdullski admits his guide is opinionated and biased. But by all means, carry on. I just wanted to laugh at your knee slapper of a quote and point out your incredible hypocrisy. The system is weighted heavily on the immediate past, so the delivered miners is referring to the monarchs. At this point, yes, you have only delivered a few, and yes, you have again amassed a backlog. Once you've shipped more, you'll get the 10 points same as anyone else. I'm not sure how you can argue you don't use preorders, you have done, and you continue to do as your main business model. 65nm (for the vast majority) and your monarchs were both sold as preorder products, delivered in 2 weeks. Unless you're talking about this split second at which point the only things you're selling are 10GH miners @ $5/GH - I can't give you a pat on the back for that. If you do sell in hand Monarchs once your queue is cleared AND then don't sell preorders on whatever comes after then you'll of course get your deserved 20 points. Heck, I'll even send you a prize in the post if I can get it through customs  Refund issues stick much longer through history. The tldr is why did people have to sue individually and class action if you were issuing refund fluidly? You might be doing fine at the moment, but unfortunately this one sticks longer than the others. Have a look at the other companies though, you're not alone. Regarding communication, remember that the standard is 7. You don't have to do much at all to drop down to 4. You have a 1 because there is too much smoke. The catchphrase 2 weeks doesn't just appear without reason. You ban anyone who says ANYTHING negative about you on your forums, and say the rest of the world is out to get you. Maybe you have self justified some tilted reasons, but it doesn't help your customers. Oh, and you don't declare everyone else who disagrees with you as a troll (and pay people to discredit them). I didn't create your category, you did. First with the bad company performance to make it the lowest/near lowest performing company, and then again with the smear campaign as an ethical infraction. You've done well to actually raise your company out of the BFL scoring category which if you stay out of it next time can finally be renamed!!!!. You were the only company in it for so long it only made sense it call it the BFL tier. Remember VMC is bankrupt and doesn't exist. But yeah, if I arbitrarily set companies I didn't like to 1 then why would I have just raised BFLs score more than any other company in the latest update? According to you I'm highly biased against you. |
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Scanned the thread for suggestions and couldn't find the corsair cs series mentioned.
80PLUS Gold
Semi modular
450-850W
Added CS, just waiting on Theymos to inject me some additional posts as I'm at the character cap. |
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Hey Dogie. Bitmain says the fans are "Two 14038" (140mm) and you say they are 120mm. Who is right?  120mm. S3s are only 137mm wide so they're certainly not 140mm fans. I think 14038 is in reference to a generic fan part they intended to use, but they now used the more expensive JDH fans that were found on the S2. |
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Bitmine has a way too high a score. Refunds, communication and ethics should all be 1/BFL. They owe customers hundreds of thousands if not millions and haven't paid a single refund in months. They answer maybe 1 out of 10 emails and every reply is some copy/paste BS. They built their own mining farm in Iceland using customer money they were supposed to pay back ages ago. They are definitely scammers, no doubt about it.
I need specific examples. They already have significant penalties on communication and refunds, I need evidence that they are specifically doing underhand things regarding refunds to lower their score further. They already have a penalty for running a commercial farm. I can't just set all their scores to 1 because you don't like them, its not how it works. |
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Wouldn't work for me:
Auctions 0.9076%
Hardware 0.8062%
Computer hardware 0.4875%
Meta 0.3346%
CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware 0.2721%
Reputation 0.1391%
New forum software 0.1085%
Mining speculation 0.1077%
Archival 0.0845%
Long-term offers 0.0548%
No combination there makes sense
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how come using other companies chips drops the trustworthiness score?
I dont see how RM using AM chips should make them less trustworthy
Dropping $1-5M in chip orders makes it much less likely they're going up to do a runner on your order as the investment required is so much more substantial than buying in. If I'm an integrator, I can buy third party chips with as little as $3000. With $3000 I can build, test and offer working miners which is a significantly smaller 'investment' I was to reap a scam. The huge investment of designing and fabricating one's own chip is therefore rewarded. |
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If they ship, perhaps you and I can go on tour. I've heard that people pay to witness such shit, so why should we do it for free?
Like you did for AMT you mean? Perplexed with your post, bud. Explain? Didn't you post a video where you drove to their place and they gave you a free miner if you agreed to post a video saying how happy you were with them - even after you'd spent 100's and 100's of posts slagging them off? Maybe it wasn't AMT... Edit: Nope, it was AMT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO-EGJhdx4U |
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