I question if there might be a bit of propaganda going on in these here parts trying to steer folks away from the actual benefits of natural saturated fats and the fats in meats, eggs, bacon etc...  .. sure nothing wrong with a few nuts here and there, but there might be a bit problematic to be eating too many nuts and getting led into beliefs and/or propaganda that   animal fats and proteins are not as good for you when animal fats and proteins might even be better.. yet even that is not clear about the benefits of ruminants over other kinds of animal meats..

Well, just think at the time of the start of this thread, investing a good amount of the $50k into bitcoin would have done quite well for anyone with such insight in terms of investing rather than strict consumption.  Surely there is nothing wrong with consumption, but if you think about the thrust of the responses in this thread, it is not easy to figure out how so many guys seem to first think of consumption and many also talk about investing into various other things that are not called bitcoin, even though surely we are in a bitcoin forum and many of us should have already come to the conclusion that bitcoin is a good investment....

Think about the hypothetical one more time.. it is an extra $50k that you had not otherwise expected to have.  

So surely there should be differences in the financial status and/or the financial preparations of guys in regards to their buying bitcoin, yet might we not already assume that guys in this forum already have some kind of bitcoin related investment plan that also may well involve a kind of projection in regards to where the guy is going and how long it might take to get there, so then $50k should advance the journey, so surely it could be possible to divide the $50k into four quarters, and so then maybe 1/4 goes into bitcoin right away, 1/4 goes towards buying on dip and DCA, maybe another 1/4 goes into shoring up cash reserves and other aspects in which a guy's finances might be coming up short. .and maybe another 1/4 could go towards consumption - though that seems a bit much.. maybe just 1/10 goes towards some various kinds of consumption.

Compare investing into bitcoin at the time of the start of this thread in August 2023, and so at the time of the starting of this thread there would have been considerable opportunities to buy bitcoin between around $26.2k and perhaps $27.5k depending on how the timing of the BTC buys went.

Of course your response to this thread (jossiel) was in early November 2023, so even then, BTC prices had largely been bouncing around in the price range of $36k to $38k, so it might have been perceived that some of the bitcoin opportunities had gone, but then again, where are we trying to go with our investment and what is our timeline, so if we put some or most of the money into bitcoin, since we conclude that it is not quite enough to invest it into something that costs way more capital, such as a personal property, then we might consider the personal property as one of our aims, yet it still seems problematic to sacrifice investing too much into property and to deplete our BTC investment, so there could surely be ways to attempt to achieve both, yet we would still need to build our BTC and also hope that our BTC is growing alongside with the investments that we put into it. with the time of your post.

Even with your March 2016 forum registration date, jossiel, you may well could be in a position in which you might have already built your own amount of BTC that some day you might use some portion of your BTC to buy a house, even though I question anyone who supposedly knows about bitcoin and who feels compelled to rush into real estate and/or concluding that it is better to be in real estate than it is to be in bitcoin... so there likely is some need for balance in terms of how much value to keep in various kinds of assets that are not bitcoin... and which place is going to be better to hold your value and/or how to balance those various interests.

Of course someone investing $100 per week into bitcoin for the past 8 years would have had invested around $42k and would have had accumulated nearly 12 BTC, which surely should give more options for buying a house, even if it might be just shaving off some portion of those BTC to invest into a house.

Getting the money today, would not necessarily materially change the kinds of weighing of the decisions and the balancing as compared with mid-August 2023 or early November 2023, even though there is a real life fact that BTC prices have come up around close to 2.5x since August 2023 and around 1.8x since November 2023, yet I am not sure if the mere appreciation of BTC prices would necessarily change the allocations, yet no matter what the amounts are still getting plugged into systems that the guy is already following, so likely there would be areas in which the cash side of his budget could be buttressed and other areas in which the investment side of his budget could be buttressed.. . .so sure there could end up being some differences based on differences in the BTC price, yet we are also ONLY able to act from today (or tomorrow, since OP mentions that we would be receiving the $50k amount "tomorrow.") , we cannot turn back the clock.


The example did not say anything about having to pay taxes, and so the hypothetical seems to be that you have $50,000, so maybe you need to get some tax consulting with that money, but I would not assume that it would necessarily be the case that the amount is taxable, so in that regard, I am having trouble presuming that there is going to be a necessity to pay taxes on the amount received...  

Another thing you mentioned some places that you would put the money, yet you did not say anything about investing into bitcoin - which surely seems surprising.

Of course, I look at your forum registration date and I see that you have been here since October 2012 - so surely it could be that you did not mention buying any bitcoin since you already have enough bitcoin or you have too much bitcoin, so yeah, that could be understandable in terms of a possible explanation why you did not mention anything about buying any bitcoin with the extra windfall money, namely the $50k freebee money that rolled into one of our accounts.


Now, this is a good idea. Start out by developing a plan that has potentially investment components and also consumption components and then figure out how much is going to go towards each broad category and then thereafter narrow it down to more narrow ideas within each of the categories.. .. that sounds good.. ... part investment and part consumption, and how you divide up the investment versus consumption would depend in part upon how far you already are in your investment journey..

You sound like a dumb little twat.

Most people need protection in order to make sure that they have enough BTC, and your drawing attention to some possible fall of BTC comes off as someone who does not know anything.

Yeah, maybe there is a need to be ready to buy any dip that might come, but the mere fact that BTC prices are breaking new ATHs does not necessarily mean that any meaningful correction is going to happen.. yeah, it might, but it might not, so hopefully dumb little twats like you realize that it is good to make sure that you are prepared for either direction and not just overly preparing for one direction that may or may not end up happening and end up under-preparing for another direction that may or may not happen too, but you still better make sure that you are sufficiently/adequately prepared for UP, which seems to be amongst the greatest problems that an overwhelming number of normies still face.. they are either no coiners or they are low coiners and they might be low coiners without actually realizing it.. .

Mostly the amount of pushups per day has been growing, even though I have been feeling some stagnation in the quantity of pushups per day, but if I look at my chart, the quantity is still growing. and sure I have a cushion, so I could choose to do fewer pushups per day, just to take a rest.. and maybe other guys are going through similar kinds of questions regarding if they are liking the quantity of pushups that they continue to do.. or if they need to adjust upwardly or downwardly.


I have only been able to 55 pushups 4 or 5 times and 54 pushups once.   Frequently I try to push to do as many as I can, and I tend to end up in the 40-45 range, so every once in a while I can do more than that.. .pretty rare as you see..   there may have been a few times that I still have gas in the tank, but I don't necessarily want to push it.. or there might be other times that I cannot even do 40 pushups.. but that is also starting to be pretty rare too..

As far as remembering, I just write it down right away.. so that I don't forget.

You are likely thinking more like a trader rather than an investor if you believe that 2-3 years is "long term."

You have been registered on the forum for nearly 3.5 years, so you are coming upon a full cycle, and there could have had been ways that you establish a bitcoin position in less than a full cycle, but if you are building your BTC holdings for the long term, it could take you years and years and years to build a bitcoin position.

Even if you had started buying BTC at $500 per week at around the time of your forum registration date, you would have invested nearly $90k and you would have accumulated slightly less than 3 BTC, and financially you would not necessarily be in a bad place, and sure there could have had been ways to better accumulate your BTC position and/or to buy BTC on dips and/or lump sum and front load your investment, but it still can take a while to build your bitcoin holdings, even if you might happen to be able to figure out when the dips are. 
 

Bull runs do not happen like that.  You are using the wrong term.

We have been in a bull market since about late 2022, even though we might not have had realized it until mid to late 2023.


Sure it might and it might hit before the halvening. though the odds for before the halvening is not looking as good.. but it is looking a lot better than it did last October when Adam Back had made the bet about $100k prior to the halvening.. he kind of appeared like a nutjob, but not so much now.. especially now that we are ONLY around 30% to 35% from $100k as I type.
 

Have you been trading the whole time that you have been in bitcoin?  Do you think trading outperforms buying and accumulating? 

Personally it seems problematic from my perspective for guys to believe that they can accumulate more BTC by selling BTC rather than by buying... but sure everyone has their techniques and hopefully you are able to reach your goals and/or to build your BTC stash, but yeah if you don't recognize BTC as valuable, you might be spending too much time stacking dollars rather than stacking sats and that is likely NOT going to end up being as good of a place to be, even if it may well take a bit of time to build up a decent-sized BTC stash.

To me, it sounds like you don't know what the halvening is.

It is the halvening of the new issuance of bitcoin, so instead of 6.25 BTC rewarded every 10 minutes it is only 3.125 BTC every 10 minutes, which also could be translated as a reduction from 900 new BTC per day to 450 new BTC per day.. It does not effect the existing supply, except perhaps to put more pressure on the existing supply since fewer amounts of new BTC is coming onto the market.

Another thing that is NOT of immediate effect is that there is something like 100 blocks, so the miner cannot spend the newly minted coins until the next day.. so it is not a very long delay before the newly issued coins can be spent.

The reason that the price tends to go up after a halvening is that it might take a bit of time for the lowering of the new supply to be felt, yet this time around, it appears that there is an ongoing pressure on the BTC supply that had not been so much present in earlier halvenings, so if the ongoing pressures continue to be put on the existing BTC supply, then surely the BTC price will go up and it will allow for more BTC to be available for sale, yet it if the buying pressure is greater than the amount of coins that existing BTC holders are ready, willing and/or able to sell, then the BTC price will go up until a sufficient amount of BTC supply is made available for the various ongoing new BTC buyers are able to get their BTC (in this case quite a bit still seems to be coming from the new BTC ETF issuers).

It is a bit funny in regards to how he said it, and especially saying that if the BTC price reaches $170k, then he will buy $10k and give them to you, so in essence that would be $170k/$10k = 0.05882353 BTC - and yeah of course, he seems to be wanting to create an impression that he is not holding BTC, and maybe it does not matter if he were to just send you 0.05882353 BTC or if he were to buy them with dollars first.   


It is good to know about the four year cycle, but not necessarily to get too attached to them or to try to play them unless you have already determined that you have enough BTC or more than enough.. ..

yet, I know guys are going to try to play the cycle and they might not necessarily yet be in a position in which they should be either selling their BTC or discontinuing in buying BTC.


Maybe it could end up playing out like that?  I have my doubts about MTGOX coins contributing much if anything to downward pressures or even failure to go up pressures.

There maye be some time in which the UPpity between now and October might get to be too much.. so maybe there will be a correction somewhere along the way between here and October.. and still expecting a kind of fair range of $120k to $180k for 2024. before figuring out whether MOAR Uppity might be necessary or not (necessary to accommodate the likely ongoing buying pressures from BTC spot ETF buyers and various copy-cat buyers)..

If you are transferring bitcoin from an exchange to a private wallet, then that is likely to contain both exchange fees and transaction fees.  Frequently exchanges have set fees, but they also might have options for how you can send your coins, too.  Some exchanges gouge more than others in terms of how much they charge - and sure part of the presumption is that they are paying transaction fees when the send to your private wallet.

When you send to yourself or you send to someone else from your private wallet, then some of the private wallets have more features than others in terms of coin control or being able to manually adjust fees.

Regarding how much value to leave on exchanges, each of us has to decide in terms of how frequently we are using the exchange to either buy or sell and also how large or small that we might be willing to have our UTXOs that we have on our private wallet.  In recent times, due to quite a few of our onchain fees that were not coming down, I had frequently suggested $500 to $1,000, when we have choices, so maybe that could be in the ballpark of 500k or more satoshis, and of course, if we transact with someone privately, we may well end up with a lot of BTC transactions and even change that ends up in our UTXO that end up being quite a bit smaller than our preference, and maybe some of our UTXOs might start to seem unspendable or very expensive to spend if we do not attempt to manage our UTXOs so that we do not end up with a whole bunch of small UTXOs at a time that we might feel that we need to use them, but the the onchain fees are high.


Yep.. there are degrees of responsibility within poor people and also in regards to rich people too.

So some are gong to be more responsible with their money, and surely it is harder to build wealth rather than to maintain wealth, but each of them takes skills, so surely any poor people who are in the process of trying to make their situation better are more likely in the process of building the wealth and not so much in maintaining, even though maintaining is a given because it would seem that anyone trying to make progress should be striving to engage in strategies that do not put their building at risk so that they end up going backwards rather than forward... but even something like bitcoin, sometimes it might appear that a person is going backwards or not gaining any ground, even if his bitcoin is growing, but for some periods of time, it might be lessening in value, but the person who knows about what he is investing into will not get shaken by those kinds of short term assessment.

The rich guy might not feel any need to grow his wealth, yet he might be  still trying to maintain his wealth and/or to deplete his wealth at a sustainable rate.. . and surely there are some guys who might not know what they are doing and they are just depleting their wealth and not even trying to maintain it.. in part due to their incompetencies.  Guys who have built their wealth are more likely to know what they are doing, but even luck might be perceived as knowledge because sometims there might be luck involved rather than knowledge.

You seem to be amazed about relatively small bitcoin price moves.  The bottom was $15,479 in November 2022, so yeah, currently we are a bit more than 4x over that bottom price and by the time we get to $100k, that would be nearly 6.5x higher than that bottom price.. .. .. and so the question still becomes how to deal with that kind of price appreciation and also to figure out if it is a good idea to sell some of your bitcoin or not. .which surely has to do with your own personal circumstances regarding how long you might have been in bitcoin and how long you have been accumulating bitcoin.

Someone like you have been registered on the forum for nearly 7 years so if you had been persistently and ongoingly accumulating BTC for the past 7 years at $100 per week, you would have invested $36.6k and you would have accumulated nearly 4 BTC (worth nearly $280k), which seems like something like that would give you options, but not necessarily in a position to start to sell BTC.. unless you might have had been injecting more value and investing more into BTC in order to front load your investment, then maybe you would be in a position to start to sell some of it.  Sure in the end, it is up to you how to manage your BTC holdings.


Of course the dynamics for this particular bullmarket is going to be different from the dynamics of the 2021 bullmarket, so in that regard, we seem to be largely just starting this bullmarket as compared with 2021 being towards the end of that particular bull market.. and at the same time, we can never really know for sure if we are in the beginning, the middle or the end, but we should still attempt to prepare ourselves for a variety of possibilities and not merely expecting that since currently we are in all time highs and that we are experiencing greater amounts of UPwards price movements that the upwards movements are not sufficiently sustainable.  

The fact of the matter remains that more and more BIGGER money is coming into the bitcoin space, and surely the BIGGER money can push the BTC price in either direction, but if you are merely preparing for down rather than UP, then you are likely not very prepared or even understanding what bitcoin is in terms of remaining an investment to hold for the long term and continuing to make sure that you have enough of it. and if you don't you have to continue to buy until you feel that you have enough or more than enough...  

By the way, you cannot prepare for up or even to make sure that you have enough BTC by selling your BTC, so the best tactic for making sure that you have enough is keep buying until you have come to a reasonable conclusion that you do have enough..


Seems a bit short-sighted to be wanting to trade this, and sure you can make some dollar profits, but you seem to not understand and/or appreciate the asset that you have if you think that it is a good idea to be selling your BTC (except of course if you have too much of it, then in those cases you might be in a position to sell some of it).


Bitcoin doesn't work like that.  We are both in the midst of a war and also the greatest transfer of wealth that man has ever seen, and your little wishes for stability seem to be pie in the sky..,. for the most part, one of the most certain things about bitcoin is that it is going to be ongoingly volatile.. at least in terms of spot price.  

On the other hand, if you want stability and to value your BTC holdings from the 200-WMA, that 200-WMA continues to be pretty stable and ongoingly moving up.. .. so that would be one way of achieving stability through bitcoin if that might be what you are seeking.  It seems like a long shot to get BTC spot price stability until BTC spot prices are at least 10x of gold's market cap, which well could take a while to achieve.. perhaps a few more cycles.. . and so then maybe (not guaranteed) between 10x and 1,000x of gold's market cap, BTC might become a bit more stable (relatively speaking) while it is moving through that price range.

By the way, currently BTC is about 1/10 gold price so to get to 10x gold's price there would need to be a 100x price increase in bitcoin, relative to gold... so $5 million per BTC in today's prices.


You do not sound like a long term investor in BTC - merely because you are anticipating higher than $100k prices for BTC for this cycle and the mere fact that you are looking for $200k, rather than $100k for this cycle, does not make you a long term investor into BTC..  In other words, you seem to be merely anticipating a possible swing in BTC prices that goes up to $200k and you are willing to hold BTC up until that amount... That still does not contribute towards your being a long term investor in BTC.  

I would suggest that a long term investor does not get focused on BTC price, but just gets more focused on mostly just holding BTC, and if he has enough BTC he can start to sell at any price, and if he does not have enough BTC then he can continue to buy it until he has enough, or better yet more than enough.


Your analysis sounds confused... there have been greater surges in the past, so if you are referring to "great surges" it might be helpful to consider whether a surge is great or not based on percentages rather than absolute numbers, and yeah, sure there is a place for assessments based on absolute price moves and/or based on percentages, yet we still should be attempting to put these matters in perspective - especially if we might compare some of the past cycles, and also yeah, I am not expecting that bitcoin is going to be able to achieve as great of percentage moves as it was able to obtain in the past, but there still can be some short term BTC price moves that resemble past moves in terms of their percent movement.. and also based on the fact that there are BIGGER amounts of money being thrown around since in current times there are more institutions and rich persons getting into bitcoin as compared to some of the past cycles, including that each cycle has involved bigger and Bigger and BIGger players..


You can sell or not.. BTC prices are still likely going to continue to go up.. so you are just hurting yourself if you end up selling too much too soon, even though you seem to be trying to figure out the top for this cycle... and if you think that $100k or even $150k is the top, you may well end up not getting it right and then you end up selling too much BTC too soon.


Yeah.. who knows if there might be some resistance prior to $100k ..   In recent times, I had frequently considered that the range of $55k to $82k to be a kind of lack of resistance zone, and so then there would be resistance prior to $100k, yet since we seemed to have been experiencing so much resistance in this $55k to $82k zone, then that could end up changing the dynamics for pre-$100k resistance and the extent to which resistance might be strong at those pre-$100k levels.

I doubt that we can know with certainty how deep any correction is going to be or how much resistance is going to exist at any particular price level, yet we might have some decent ideas that buying pressures are way more capable of keeping up while the BTC price is moving up as long as there are some pausing periods along the way, and if it seems that there has been a sufficient amount of time that buying pressure has been able to keep up with the BTC upward price moves, then it might become somewhat unrealistic to expect great price corrections merely based on the BTC price is continuing to move up without any great corrections... but if it is moving up slowly enough then the great correction might well be a lot less necessary than you are making it out to be.


That is why a lot of guys who get into bitcoin have a lot of fun staying poor - because they are so excited about 2x profits..   seems a bit ridiculous given bitcoin as the most pristine asset known to man, and some guys are monkeying around with short-term profits that may well end up resulting in not so great of a plan as compared to the guys who figure out ways to both hold BTC long term but also to advantage from the ongoing compounding of their BTC investment so long as they mostly continue to hold it over long periods of time..... even guys who got in from 2015 have gone through around 8 or so doublings, which end up resulting in around 256x returns.. even though each doubling does not seem that great, but when a doubling doubles upon an earlier doubling and it keeps happening, there are compounding effects on the value that they hold.  I outline some of the compound dynamics in this post.


Wow.  Where did get to be such an expert upon where the BTC price is likely to go, and it surely seems a bit dangerous to conclude that a dip, from here, is inevitable.. but anyhow you do you, and hopefully not too many people are listening to your nonsense in terms of their own preparations from here on out, especially if they might not have much if any quantity of BTC.
 
Another thing is that hopefully you and/or other folks are not too overly reliant on the idea that the BTC price has to go down before it is going up.. otherwise you may well find yourself with way fewer coins than you should have had and inadequately prepared for up.

You have ONLY been registered on the forum for around a year and a half, so I have a hard time speculating that you are sufficiently and/or adequately prepared for UP, unless you front loaded your investment a lot in the past year and a half.

Instead, you sound like someone who might be trying to play the waves in BTC prices and you may well end up being on the wrong side of those kinds of prognostications.


It does not mean that it is going to happen.


So?


Your targets for UP seem quite reserved too.


This part of your "advice" is probably reasonable, even though you seem to be focusing on $100k rather than focusing on how much BTC any particular person might have in comparison to how much they might want or need.


This part is true too, so you are not completely looney.

One of the most inevitable things in bitcoin is that the price is volatile, but we still cannot know which direction, or which direction first, even though an overwhelming majority of folks are insufficiently and inadequately prepared for up.. so most people likely need to continue to prepare for up rather than fucking around in regards to preparing for dips that may or may not happen..  

Sure, no problem keeping money available to buy on dips, but I doubt that preparing for dips is as good of a strategy for preparing for up rather than just continuing to buy in order to continue to prepare for up that might end up happening.


You are saying that the BTC price could go in either direction, but you are saying that it won't go up.. ..

Ok... you are not making sense.


That conclusion kind of makes sense on its own, but it does not make sense in light of the other points that you were making that proclaim that the BTC price has to go down or sideways before it goes up, which may or may not be true.

I was just playing along with the little fantasy.

Of course, king daddy gives few shits about whether we do pushups or not.



Sure, supply is likely one of the greatest contributors to price if we are going to get into attempts at figuring out overall  BTC price dynamics, even though in the short term there can be all kinds of dynamics going on to effect BTC price, yet if we want to attempt to become more comprensive in terms of the most important ways of considering price then we can consider using three main frameworks, which is 1) stock to flow, 2) 4-year fractal and 3) exponential s-curve adoption based on metcalfe principles and networking effects (those outlined by Trace Mayer).

Of course, there can be some other less dominant factors, as well, but it is likely that there would be considerations of the more dominant factors rather than getting too caught up into the weeds of either noise and/or shorter term factors that might not be as relevant, including that if many of us might be considering BTC as a long-term rather than a short term investment, then sometimes we may well have to hold and/or continue to accumulate BTC through longer periods in which the BTC price may well be getting pushed around by more minor and short term factors.. .. ..

And, yeah, maybe pushups might get into sentiment, and surely I am not much of an advocate in terms of figuring out what to do in regards to bitcoin holdings based sentiment.. even though surely people get excited about monitoriing sentiment - which personally I consider to be a pretty BIG waste of time in terms of figuring out price direction.. so yeah, maybe I should not be playing along with any fantasies in regards to the extent to which our doing pushups and talking about it affects BTC price sentiment and/or ultimately affects price - which likely there is little to no effect bordering more upon no effect on BTC price.


Sure, no problem.  Doing pushups seems to be a good thing to continue... and I doubt any has proposed that we should stop doing them, even though of course on an individual level, there are frequently assertions that it remains difficult to continue to do the daily pushups.  I am currently on day 61 and I will be going over 10,000 pushups at some point today.  Probably my next set, since my exact number is 9,965 right now, and I have ONLY done my first set for today..  I was thinking about only doing 35 pushups for each set today, but then when I went to do my first set, I ended up doing 50 pushups.... so yeah, sometimes there can be feelings about not wanting to do so many pushups. but at teh same time some difficulties in stopping too.. .. so yeah, it looks like by the end of today, my average quantity of pushups per day is going to be at about 166 pushups per day.. .. and so it works.. but it still can feel a bit physically and psychologically draining to continue to do 5 sets of pushups every day.. at least for the past 40 days..

You are almost like changing the topic, and so if part of the point is that you have done good things with your bitcoin, then I would consider that you have more stories to tell, especially from 2012 to present.. even though surely, I am not expecting you to need to tell about the various ways that you spent your BTC over the years, unless perhaps you are trying to argue some kind of preferred practice to spend your BTC rather than to HODL them, which surely many of the longer term bitcoiners active in this thread would likely not agree to such a proposition, even if they don't have any problem with the idea of spending some of your BTC along the way, yet at the same time, many of us have come to realize through the years (and some of us thought so a while back) that there is value in terms of holding onto your bitcoin, especially since it is amongst the best of assets available to mankind and also that some of us likely conjecture that we are likely going through the greatest wealth redistribution (if you had not heard) known to man too.

In regards to the 0.0105 bitcoin that you are hold, I had almost forgotten about that, and surely it had something to do with longevity.. in terms of both of us still being alive by that date, and I believe that we even had fillippone in there as a back up recipient in the event that you are still alive but I am not.

All these are surely good fun, and surely I admit that there would be both some graciousness and also some long terms dedications to being able to hang onto your coins if there would be such a possibility of liiving until 2057 and also not screwing up your BTC holdings too much that you would still be willing to gift tha quantity of BTC, which may well end up being worth a pretty good chunk of change by that time.

Speaking of fillippone, I am pretty sure that he is also expecting a gift from proudhon somewhere upon bitcoin reaching the early 6 figures, and it might have even been something like 0.1 BTC, but I cannot recall exactly..

Only $1-ish shy in order to get into 18th place and to knock down that 2021 date one more rung lower.

The price made up a lot of ground in the second half of the day, rather than the first half of the day, the price performance was not as good, relatively speaking.

There are a lot of ways in which we could look at the matter, including that the BTC price is not really correcting greatly, so it could be the case that our pushups are contributing to the Bitcoin price's refusal to correct greatly.

In regards to accumulating BTC, from my perspective, there is a really BIG shortage in BTC holders, and the reason for that is because they are spending too much time waiting and not enough time acting, so I cannot see any tool to be helpful in terms of helping guys to engage in more strategizing than they already tend to do in their BTC accumulating process journey.

I also believe it is not correct to say that people who each have 10 BTC is the correct comparison, even though technically you are correct, yet I think that the main issue is that there may well be guys of more or less equal means, and some of them are more aggressive in their BTC accumulation than others, and surely it pays to be aggressive, and so part of the point is that one of the guys is going to end up with more BTC than the other, and the sooner he gets started accumulating BTC, the more he is likely to accumulate, yet there still can end up being cases where a more aggressive investor will be able to catch up, even if he comes to BTC later. 

In one of my posts within the past week, I attempt to outline those kinds of examples in one of my posts in which I compared the examples of three different guys, and to try to show their main difference was their level of aggressiveness and when they found out about bitcoin

FTFY^**

**An attempt at being more factually accurate.

It seems that the more poor you are (and the fewer the investments that you have), the more important it is to both establish an emergency fund and also to maintain that emergency fund in cash rather than in any other assets.. especially the first at least 3 months of your living expenses.  The thing with richer folks is that they may well have several options, and sure there are a certain amount of rich folks who are not very liquid (meaning that they are not keeping very much of their wealth in cash), but richer folks are still more likely to have options between which asset to sell, so in that regard, they can choose what they believe to be the asset that they value the least, but they also might get stuck with having to sell an asset that is the most liquid to deal with their emergency.. and so I am not going to presume that rich people don't end up fucking up BIG time, but they do tend to have more resources available, and so a person who is not as rich will tend to have to be way more careful not to end up either recking himself or overly ending up; having to dip into their investment because of their failures to properly have enough reserves, and a lot of poor people never end up making hardly any progress in their getting themselves out of holes because they either fail to keep enough emergency funds and reserves (because they are getting too greedy trying to make sure all their capital is "working," and another major kind of mistake that they make will be to either not let their winners ride or to be dipping into their investment way too soon and not letting their investments compound... and surely either of those kinds of BIG mistakes can be made better through better use of emergency funds, and also maintaining and managing reserves and cashfloats.


Sometimes we might get too greedy because we want all of our money to be working, and in something like bitcoin, it may well not be really very necessary - even though of course, there are no guarantees - but the essence is to want to stay invested, and if you end up getting very great returns on your bitcoin, then it might not matter  that you had 3 months to 9 months of your expenses continually available in cash and not working for you for 15-20 years or more.

There is something that is empowering about having the extra cash just being available, even though it is likely not only failing to earn interest but it is also likely half of its earlier value after 6-10 years.. and maybe also you are constantly having to add to your emergency fund because the first 5 years, you had kept $1k per month (so between $3k to $6k in your various emergency funds, reserves and float), but the next 5 years, you were no longer feeling comfortable with that amount, so you started to feel that you had to put $2k per month.. so $6k to $12k in the second 5 years.


You likely should feel reassured because maybe after 5-10 years investing, you end up getting up to 1-2 years of your income/expenses invested into bitcoin, and so maybe you would not feel as bad to be having all of that unworking capital just sitting around.

Another thing will be that if you try to be too whimpy on your emergency funds and reserves and you realize that the first 5 years, you always were able to get away with $3k to $6k in those funds.. ..  .. but then if the reality of the matter, is that your expenses and various complications in your finances have gone up, and you would be more justified to double your emergency funds and reserves, yet you choose to keep them the same as they had been previously, then no one is going to feel sorry for you, if you end up getting recked because you were being too stingy with your emergency funds/reserves, and you would ONLY have yourself to blame for your own failure/refusal to sufficiently assess your circumstances while your circumstances are likely to be changing from time to time and in need of adjustments that account for such changed circumstances.


Even guys who have pretty straight forward cashflow and pretty straightforward expenses, they are still likely are going to have some variance in their cashflow and/or what their reserve levels might reach.. so for sure the emergency funds would likely be the least flexible in terms of your never wanting to use them yet they still might have to grow from time to time to account for what is at minimum of 3 months worth of expenses... and  so there would likely be times in which you have a certain amount of emergency funds, a certain amount of reserves a certain amount of float, but also a certain amount that is just extra beyond those categories, so you will want to decide are you going to put that in to bitcoin or into something else... you have more options the more funds that you have, but of course, your own situation should be dictating to you where to put your funds.

Let's say that the guy has already been buying around 10% to 15% of his income in BTC for the past 5 years, and so he has invested close to 3/4 of year of his salary into bitcoin, but bitcoin has performed to such a level that it is about 1.5x his annual income,  He has emergency funds that are about 3 months of his income and various classifications of reserves that are around 4-5 months of his income, so some of his reserves are already assigned for buying BTC on dips and other parts of his reserves is his entertainment fund and another part of his reserves is dedicated to his transportation costs and another part of his reserves have been to save up to buy his daughter a bicycle and another part of his reserves is saving up for a vacation, and another part of his reserves is to pay for the construction of a storage shed, and so if he has extra money coming in then he can figure out if he wants to buy BTC with it or maybe he thinks that he should use some of that extra money to invest into something else...  My point is that the guy's circumstances and priorities should be helping to guide the extent to which his extra money goes into bitcoin or into something else, and if you notice, there can be certain parts of the guy's reserves that have higher priorities than others, and he sometimes, might have to dip from one portion of his reserves and to put it into something else, and he would spend from his reserves before he spent from his emergency fund, since no matter what he does not want his emergency fund to go any lower than 3 months (unless he really had an emergency and he had already spent from his reserves prior to dipping into his emergency fund).

No one is going to tell you if you have enough or too much, even though some practices might be more risky, and maybe you have a list of things that you want, but you only save up for them one item at a time, but you could still end up building up part of your reserves and then at some point redesigning it to something else, and maybe the part of your reserves that are dedicated towards buying BTC on dips have the highest priority, but if your wife does not get the vacation that you told her that you were going to pay for then, you might have to reconsider you priorities.


I think that the longer that anyone invests, the more and more comfort that he should have about having had built various systems to protect his investment, but surely one of the problems becomes that sometimes people will start to unnecessarily take extra risks with some of their investment and not protecting themselves as much as they should, and surely there can be points in which your holdings are more vulnerable than others, yet sometimes we cannot always know while we are in the middle of the process, and we can ONLY do as much as we are able to do, in terms of making our own best and solid practices to make sure that we are sufficiently protecting our portfolios and perhaps being aggressive without over doing it.. . and sometimes normies (normal people)_ do not always realize when they are either overdoing it or they are too far on the whimpy side or too far on the aggressive side...


Bitcoin does not have "gas fees"

That is a shitcoin way of describing matters.  

If you are talking about bitcoin, then you might be referring to transaction fees or even exchange fees, perhaps?

Surely there are several factors to account when establishing your BTC position - and the earliest of BTC accumulators probably should be accumulating at any price until the start to get a certain level in which they might be able to be more selective.

I probably would not want to be involved with any kind of tool that overly attempts to strategize in regards to when to buy bitcoin, since my frequent suggestion is to attempt to be as aggressive as you can in regards to investing into bitcoin without over doing it, so even though I am not opposed to the theories of holding back in order to buy on dips, yet from my perspective, there could problems for either suggesting waiting to accumulate or advising to wait to accumulate.. so I am not too excited about anything that might contribute towards waiting.. even though I do understand and agree with ideas about having some money available for buying on dips.. and I also agree with front-loading, even though it can be difficult to know when to engage in any of those kinds of behaviors except for being able to appreciate that you might not have enough BTC so there can be various strategies to employ to attempt to increase the likelihood of accumulating more BTC.. .... but then maybe I have another concern that it is more important to have more BTC even if you had to spend more per BTC to get it, rather than having fewer BTC..

Would you rather be a guy who has an average cost per BTC that is ONLY $1k per BTC, but he ONLY has 2 BTC? or a guy who has an average cost per BTC that is $10k per BTC but he has 10 or more BTC?

One of the things that seems to make bitcoin special is that it is an asset that is amongst the best, if not the best, asset that is widely available to the whole world's population, so a goal of accumulating as many as you can within your own means of gathering seems to be more important than figuring out your average cost per BTC... while at the same time, once you established enough and/or more than enough BTC within the bounds of your assessments of your needs for cashflow, then you can start to use these kinds of sustainable withdrawal tools and perhaps even largely continue to hold your BTC and allow your BTC holdings to continue to grow (at least in terms of dollar values) since the tools might allow you to figure out ways to strategize your sells in either such a way that you don't have to sell as much or alternatively pace your sales.. ... I still have not completely figured out a way on a personal level to completely use any of the advance month sales because it frequently is not going to feel good to sell large amounts of your BTC unless you are starting to feel that the BTC price is getting into territories of over-exuberance, and I am not even going to concede to knowing when that is going to be, so each person would need to figure out the extent to which s/he wants to sell months of withdrawal authorizations in advance.


I find those DCA tools to already be very good tools for figuring out where a person would have had been if he had followed a certain level of strict DCA strategy, even for some period and then selecting another period and then doing some of the math ourselves in regards to if there might have had some periods of lump sum in the buying period or buying dips.

So sometimes we might be able to see where our actual bitcoin holdings are, versus where our holdings would have been or could have been if we were to have had followed some other strategy... and sometimes even being able to see if whatever we are currently doing is competitive with some kind of a strict DCA strategy or if we might have over-performed or under-performed such a strategy.

The tools are likely ONLY going to take us so far.. and surely one of the advantages of already having had established a BTC stash that might be enough or more than enough is that either this sustainable withdrawal tool, or even my raking tool, can help to give us ideas in regards to how to reasonably manage the stash that we had already established. .and if we had been investing in bitcoin for several cycles, then it becomes more and more likely that we are going to be in sufficient profits.. which is another problem with considering merely simple profits, and from my own point of vies simple profits do not make very much difference, since sure maybe we can sell some of our BTC based on merely being in simple profits, but if we build and hold BTC profits for several cycles, it becomes more and more likely that our BTC holdings will already start to be in a kind of status of compounding profits, which additionally justifies the employment of a sustainable withdrawal status that ends up likely taking advantage of the ability of the BTC holdings to continue to compound in value... ..

but then again once someone might be in the process of actually wanting to sustainably withdraw from his BTC stash, he may no longer be as concerned about compounding value, but instead more appreciating of the fact that BTC prices (especially measured by the 200-WMA) are continuing to out perform traditional investments which likely justifies the abilities to employ withdrawal rates that are much higher than if he were to keep his value in traditional investments, so surely it is becoming more apparent to me that a 10% withdrawal strategy has good chances of continuing to be sustainable in bitcoin, which largely means that a guy in bitcoin may well ONLY need to have $800k in bitcoin as compared to $2 million in traditional investments (again measuring by the 200-WMA is currently a reduction from around 60.8 BTC to 24.3 BTC.  each of them would constitute around a $6,666 month withdrawal amount... yet having the value in BTC likely causes the lower amount of BTC to be more sustainable than if the higher amount of BTC were sold into dollars and surely of course, since the current BTC price is a bit more than double the 200-WMA, then around 30 BTC could be sold right now to get the $2million fuck you status.. . .and maybe include having to sell a bit more for taxes.. (maybe 36 BTC), so then if the guy is walking away with $2 million in cash then he would presumptively need to invest it somewhere in order to get the 4% withdrawal rate and/or the $6,666 per month of income off of that.

I would feel much more comfortable having 24.3 BTC in BTC and using a 10% withdrawal rate in order to get the $6,666 per month of cashflow perpetually and in a sustainable way based on bitcoin's ongoing expected growth rate, and at the same time we can look at actual BTC's 200-WMA growth rate to attempt to verify if we are expecting the amount to come down and/or if our anticipated ongoing 10% withdrawal rate is continuing to be sustainable.

There is nothing really wrong with those kinds of conclusions - except for a realization that emergency funds tend to be denominated in the fiat in which bills are paid because assets can suffer liquidity events at the same time, then you are fucked  because everything might be going down in value at the same time, and you are forced to sell some things because you did not have enough cash.  Think about what happened March 2020 as an extreme example, but it is still an example of something that could happen and you would not want to be caught on the wrong side in which you had to sell either your assets and/or your bitcoin at a time that they had just taken around a 50% or more draw down in a day and with no clarity in sight when they were going to stop going down.....

so sometimes if you are going to end up wanting to be cute in regards to making sure that your various kinds of emergency funds, reserves and/or float is working for you while in storage for a long time, is that you would still have the first 3 months or so in cash or cash equivalents that are easy to draw upon, maybe in a combination of physical, in banks, in other kinds of accounts that may or may not be interest bearing.

When shit hits the fan, you have to largely be prepared already in advance to be able to weather through the situation... maybe the bad situation only lasts a month or two, or maybe it ends up lasting several months, even 6 months or more, and so there might be some point in which you are also looking at your bitcoin as one of your forms of liquidity that you need something and you are running out of resources, and surely there could be cases in which you are in that situation, and maybe there could have had been ways that you could have better protected yourself.

Maybe I can give my own example?

Through 2017 and early 2018, I had been planning for some construction that I knew was going to cost a certain amount that was probably equal to 3-5% of the value of my then BTC stash, and so I had set aside about half of the expenses that I had calculated were boint to come due in January, February, March and April 2019.

As we likely realize throughout 2018, BTC spot prices went down from around $19,666 and down to a low of around $3,124, so throughout 2018, I was buying BTC on the way down with my designated cash and keeping in mind my construction cost bills were coming due in early 2019 - yet what ended up happening is there were higher costs than expected and the bills started coming due in October, November and December 2018, so really a few months earlier than expected.. and .. so there was some point around November 2018, that I was getting close to running out of cash from all of my various sources, and I ended up selling around 3.5% of my then BTC holdings (at various prices in the $3,800 to $4,200 range), and maybe over the next several  months I ended up buying back around 50% of what I had sold, yet the overall lesson was that I had made a mistake in properly planning and maintaining enough funds to both cover all of the extra expenses but also to sufficiently prepare for the level of the BTC price drop that ended up playing, which largely likely meant that I was buying back way too much BTC on the way down from $19,666 to $3,124 and I should have had held more of those cash reserves (that were dedicated towards buying bitcoin) in my cash reserves that should have had been dedicated for paying for my construction expense.

So, the punchline is that due to my errors, my lack of properly keeping enough cash on hand, there remains a certain quantity of my BTC that I ended up selling in the price range between $3,800 to $4,200 that I was not able to buy back.. which probably was around 1-2% of my then BTC stash that was not able to be bought back.. .. except, I suppose later that I probably ended up buying some of that back at higher prices.. but even that is not really clear in terms of whether my BTC stash might have had ended up being forever reduced by 1-2% because of the price point in which they were sold and the fact that BTC prices were near bottom prices.. so ultimately it was a mistake of selling low rather than selling high.. and then never being able buy back at lower than the sell point (except for my mentioning that about half of it did seem to have had been bought back, so instead of shaving off 3-4% of my BTC stash the end result was only 1-2% of my BTC stash having had been shaved off.


But I already mentioned the idea that the cash in your emergency fund.. perhaps up to 3 months expenses is likely going to suffer from not earning any interest or growing but instead ongoingly shrinking in value, which means that more and more funds will likely have to be added to the emergency funds and if you are lucky (and you don't have any emergency), then you may well end up ongoingly maintaining an emergency fund for 20-30 years or longer that continues to get larger and larger in terms of its nominal dollar value, but none of that money (up to around 3 months of your expenses) is earning any income nor interest, just continuing to debase in its value.. but it is a cost of staying safe and hoping that you actually never have to use it.. but it is also likely keeping your rich too. .because you would also never have to touch your BTC investment (or any of your other investments) at a time that is not completely of your own choosing.

Let's say that you spend 20 years investing into something like BTC at 15% per year, so after 6.67 years, you have invested a year's of your income, and so after 20 years you have invested around 3x of your yearly income, but at the same time you have continued to maintain at least 3 months of an emergency fund and sometimes you would have an extra 6-18 months of reserves and float, and so much of that cash was not really working through the last 20 years, but hopefully your bitcoin was working during that time and sufficiently made up for the fact that your various forms of cash were not working.. and you can do these kinds of calculations to figure out whether it was worth it to maintain these various systems including calculating if it would have had been better to use your BTC and/or your other investments as your emergency fund, which surely is a kind of sloppy behavior that we see people do and we see normies get reckt as fuck too and they end up having fun staying poor because they never get ahead and they are always gambling with their money.. so by the time they maybe could have had been to fuck you status, instead they are having to work until they die and they also might not even be able to increase their standard of living because they failed/refused to properly invest and/or to properly protect their investments.


Exactly!!!!!  That is the dilemma.  You want to have an emergency fund (or an insurance plan) that you never have to use.. but it is there.. .just in case your house burns down...but you would rather that your house did not burn down, but you are ready, just in case it does.


once you have 3 months of cash, you could potentially have some things that are cash equivalents that might take a month or two to cash in, but they hold their value.  When you start to try to keep your emergency fund in too many other kinds of assets, then you surely run the risk of them all being volatile in the same direction, which is opposite of the dollar (or whatever fiat you use), of course, the richer you become, the less you have to worry about these matters because you likely have all kinds of various assets to draw from and you might not be as concerned if some of them are down or up when it comes time for you to use any of them, and you may also be so much in profits that any emergency might only be 1-2% of your total wealth, versus a more poor person who might get completely wiped out from any small emergency.. especially if he does not set asides funds and cushions to protect himself. .and it can take time to both build up those kinds of protection systems and also get into the practice of using them in such a way that you don't get your own false sense of security because you end up depleting them or using them and then when the real emergency comes, you are fucked because you did not maintain your emergency funds, your reserves and/or your cash float properly..

No one is going to hold your hand either, so if you fuck up, it is completely on you to figure out what kind of balances to make to make sure that you are investing aggressively enough while at the same time, making sure that you maintain sound financial practices in the direction of how you maintain your emergency fund, reserves and float.

Emergency fund is not an ongoing expense. Once you establish it (such as having 3 months of expenses.. or maybe you want to have more than 3 months?), then it is established. 

Of course there is the concept of float and reserves too, and maybe it does not matter so much what these are called, but there still should be practices in place in which you would not spend from any of your emergency funds until you were to exhaust your reserves first... and so there could be a certain urgency to replenish emergency funds that are spent as compared to potentially less urgency in regards to reserves and float - even though all of the extra money that you have likely allows you to be more aggressive in your investing into bitcoin when you have otherwise good financial management so that you would never have to touch your BTC, except completely at a time of your own choosing... which may well be years down the road, or at least years after spending a lot of time building it up and/or otherwise managing and maintaining it.

In regards to some kind of a target of saving and/or investing 20% of your income.. that seems attainable, even though it does sound a bit more than what many folks shoot for, yet any exact percentage amount would be a product of discretion and/or fair assessments of how much discretionary/disposable income the guy has... so then if half of the 20%  were to go into bitcoin (that would be 10%) and the other half were to be just kept in cash, then that other 10% could be considered as float or as reserves depending to the extent to which you might designated towards something that you are saving up for, such as saving up to buy a bicycle or saving up to have money for buying BTC on dips or some other purpose that you might keep some extra cash on the sides (even saving up to go on vacation or to take your wife/girlfriend on a date).   

On the other hand, if your emergency fund is not yet built up to a sufficient size, such as being 3 months of expenses or more, then yeah there is no problem putting that 10% into the emergency fund until it gets up to the amount that it needs to be and then there would not necessarily be any need to add further to such emergency fund or to withdraw from it, absent some rationale to touch it.

Well, why don't you tell us more about yourself.. and have you already started to buy bitcoin. 

There are all kinds of bitcoin-specific and bitcoin-related threads on this forum, and there are all kinds of information sources available about bitcoin, so maybe you have to let us know what kinds of efforts you are making to sort through information sources that are already available in terms of your own attempts to figure out which information might be better or which information might be worse, and why do you think so.


Ultimately you have to figure out your own balances that relate to the various resources that you might have available to you, how steady is any income and/or expenses that you have and how likely are you going to end up needing the extra funds, because the emergency fund, once you establish it, you should not be dipping into it.  It would just be there and always available.  Of course, since you do not want to our need to dip into your emergency fund, then many of the times if you might have shortages of cash, you would be working with your reserves and your float.. so yeah you gotta figure out how much of those various categories to keep available, and surely the larger your BTC stash gets, then that also might affect the extent that you might feel that you need to be diversified in other assets... whether that be in cash or otherwise.. .. sometimes we could think about various other forms of investments (besides bitcoin) as ways of holding cash in different kinds of ways and to be able to earn interest or yield or dividends or that it might also appreciate but be something other than bitcoin, even though bitcoin and cash will tend to be way more liquid while other forms of assets may well be less liquid, but holding value in various ways will give you options to spend from the less valuable assets prior to touching your bitcoin in the event that you might conclude that bitcoin might be the best of your investments that you don't want to touch or being playing around with until it reaches a certain size in which you would thereby start to authorize yourself  to start to dip into it. within systems and under circumstances that you have already established for yourself, once you get to such an overaccumulation level  that could take 4-10 years or longer just to build your BTC holdings to such levels.



When you are in your earliest stages of building your emergency fund, there likely would be some benefits in building them together and then at least you would be making progress in getting started in terms of investing into bitcoin.   Many times emergency funds are form of cash that are very liquid but they may well not be earning any interest or gaining value, so there could be some sense that those funds are neither working for you and that they might be losing  value as fast as you can build them up, so in that sense, you might have quite a bit of hesitancy in holding very much value in cash and/or cash equivalents, even though it is likely in your own interest to keep such cushions, especially once you are building a BTC stash that you likely are not going to want to touch for 10-20 years or maybe even longer.. depending on your own investment timeline.. .. but surely even if you might not consider that you do not want to touch your BTC for a long time, you might be able to get your BTC stash to such a high enough level that you start to feel comfortable to consider either dipping into it or maybe just discontinuing in terms of adding to it, except maybe ONLY during significant dips if they end up happening.

The development of your own situation of the value of your BTC stash and other circumstances is going to inform you how to manage and maintain it once it starts to increase in size, so long as you likely realize it is amongst the best of the assets that you hold.. which likely should have good chances of remaining a good perspective, even though each of us has to figure out our own senses of valuating and balancing our properties, investment allocations and other assets/currencies.


Of course there is likely going to be some variances, and sometimes, you might have reached a good balance regarding what you are doing that is going to work until your circumstances change and then from time to time, you may well end up having to reassess.. just like if you suddenly had an expense that you had not expected or you suddenly receive some income that you had not expected.  In either case, the longer that you practice balancing your various finances, the more you will be prepared to deal with either situation of an extra expense or extra income coming in to you.


It is quite likely that guy 2 has a kind of personality that he is likely going to be able to catch up and pass up both guy 1 and guy 3, and guy1 he will probably pass fairly quickly, but you are right, it could take him a long time to catch guy 3 (maybe even a few bitcoin cycles), and that is presuming that each of the guys are just versions of themself and stick with their same kinds of personalities that are different from one another.... and of course, in the real world, there are no guarantees with any thing, and sometimes personalities change, even though part of the attempt with those 3 hypotheticals were to show someone with similar circumstances, but only a few differences in the variables,

so in some sense we could just say that guy2 is merely competing with alternative versions of himself.. versions that were more whimpy in their investment style but also versions of himself who had found out about bitcoin 7 years earlier than he did.. so guy2 remains quite disadvantaged, but not so disadvantaged as that he should give up because he cannot change the past, and he can ONLY start to invest into bitcoin after he finds out about it.  He cannot turn back the clock, so his finding out about bitcoin later than guy1 and guy 3 does not mean that he should not get started in terms of investing into bitcoin right away and within the boundaries of his own circumstances.. including that his circumstances are going to change with the passage of time, and some of the aspects are somewhat knowable and other aspects of his circumstances are merely projections of various things that he believes might happen..


I doubt that your attempt at clarifying is very helpful.

Just think of the term cryptocurrency as an ambiguous term that should not be used unless you are clear about what you mean, and whether you are talking about bitcoin or something else.  If you are talking about bitcoin, then why not use the term bitcoin, and if you feel that you need to talk about some shitcoin or some broader context, so you use the term cryptocurrency to refer to bitcoin and other things that are related to bitcoin, such as shitcoins, then you clarify that is what you are talking about. 

If you say that bitcoin is just one of many types of cryptocurrencies, even if you might be technically correct, you are both wrong and being ambivalent, and perhaps even being malicious if you are trying to suggest that other coins are similar to bitcoin merely because they are copying bitcoin or trying to affinity scam related to either being equal to or better than bitcoin or otherwise creating ambiguities that failure to help in the understanding what bitcoin is prior to just placing bitcoin in some kind of vague, ambiguous and potentially misleading category.

Just think of the term crypto currency as a kind of attack upon the understanding of what is bitcoin.. so in that sense if you use the term "crypto", then you at least clarify what you mean by your use of it... and your clarification of your use of such term might also overly confuse why you need to use such terms in the first place, especially if you might have meant to be talking about bitcoin, then frequently it will be better to just use the term bitcoin and otherwise specify what else you might be talking about in relation to bitcoin if you are wanting to talk about something more than bitcoin. ..

If you are using the term crypto and you are talking about something other than bitcoin, then you can also specify that you are talking about various non-bitcoin terms to the extent that you might want to say something about various shitcoins it also might be good to specify which ones you are talking about or if you are just speaking in generalities to say something about the shitcoin space...