i lost every fucking coin in my wallet!!
Just keep your coins on an exchange, it's much safer for you. Eek. No no no no no. But to each their own. Using monero is simple. I'm flying coins all between the exchanges and my wallet... I'd never leave anything on an exchange unless I mean to trade it. I mean... haven't we seen what can happen??  |
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Would be great to see a similar comparison for Monero vs Boolberry if someone is up for it.
I have a dream: BBR and XMR devs become one team bonero Moonberry? |
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Sir, you are completely wrong. Don't get me wrong, I love bashing the XMR codebase, which is pretty much the fault of the BCN devs - it's like a hobby. But CryptoNight needing a 64-bit system is NOT an example of the code's inefficiency, it's an example of the algorithm being designed to run quickly on systems that aren't ancient. Optimizing it for 32-bit arithmetic would slow it down by a lot, because it would only be able to process around half the data that it could otherwise (in general). So, the algorithm is made for 64-bit. That's not to say that CryptoNight can't be implemented with 32-bit arithmetic - it's just an ugly hack, and it's slow, and nobody wants to do the work to support a steadily decreasing amount of users - those being the ones on 32-bit.
Here's an example: A very large part of CryptoNight is a loop that is executed 262,144 times. Inside that loop, two 64-bit multiplies are done. Now, on computers, multiplies are fucking slow. The only really common instruction that I know of that is consistently slower (by a lot), is divides, which are ouch slow. Anyway, two 64-bit multiplies. And you can't shortcut it - both the high and low 64-bits of the result are used. Now, on a 64-bit machine, I need to do one or two register loads and a multiply. Done. On 32-bit, not even counting the register loading (and the possible memory accesses you'd need due to register pressure, depending on what else happened to be stored in them at the time), you need somewhere around this much shit: 5 bit shift ops, 5 adds, two AND operations, two logic operations, and the killer, four, yes - FOUR multiplies. Now, this isn't the absolute best implementation, it's what I have in front of me, but it's not absolute shit, either. You can knock off one multiply, I think, maybe a bit shift or two, but you're gonna have to do most of those ops, including the three slow-ass multiplies. This is an excellent example of how the limitations of the 32-bit platform cause issues.
Thanks for the reply. And I accept 64bit is obviously superior and even arguably needed for the reasons you state above. That said what the 32bit machines are currently crashing into is limitations caused by a database that is larger than necessary and fully loaded into ram, right? So I think calling me "completely wrong" is a bit over the top.  I am not making an argument for 32bit. I am making an argument against kludgy databases and insulting the user. But I am super excited to see that the development is charging forward! |
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We should avoid techno elitist attitudes.
The fact the current CN code demands a 64bit system because it handles data inefficiently and clumsily. This is embarrassing for Monero, and certainly it's biggest current flaw.
Insulting the end users does not help the problem, and might damage the reputation of the currency.
The 32 bit thing is embarrassing. Also never insult the end user. This needs to be fixed. Are any of the Monero developers able to fix it? I know not everyone follows the conversations in #monero-dev on Freenode, so to keep everyone in the loop: work on this is already progressing. You can follow the progress by checking tewinget's databasing branch: https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/tree/blockchainThat's great news. Thanks for posting it. |
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If you're still running 32-bit, you probably are a senior or something and shouldn't be messing with magic internet money.
+1 lol The majority of internet-connected computers are 32-bit, no PAE. It is a serious freaking problem. And they're likely botnet zombies while their owners have no idea because all they use it for is email and Facebook. We should avoid techno elitist attitudes. The fact the current CN code demands a 64bit system because it handles data inefficiently and clumsily. This is embarrassing for Monero, and certainly it's biggest current flaw. Insulting the end users does not help the problem, and might damage the reputation of the currency. The 32 bit thing is embarrassing. Also never insult the end user. This needs to be fixed. Are any of the Monero developers able to fix it? I trust the developers are working on this now. It really just boils down to the database. When we migrate to a proper scalable database the Monero deamon will no longer need to load the whole thing into memory, but will just access the database from the storage medium. It will also most likely optimize the disc space requirement making the database smaller to store. I wish I could help but I am a musician, and audio engineer not a programmer. If writing a song was useful, I'd be the guy. |
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If you're still running 32-bit, you probably are a senior or something and shouldn't be messing with magic internet money.
+1 lol The majority of internet-connected computers are 32-bit, no PAE. It is a serious freaking problem. And they're likely botnet zombies while their owners have no idea because all they use it for is email and Facebook. We should avoid techno elitist attitudes. The fact the current CN code demands a 64bit system because it handles data inefficiently and clumsily. This is embarrassing for Monero, and certainly it's biggest current flaw. Insulting the end users does not help the problem, and might damage the reputation of the currency. |
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According to the internet archive that domain was just a parked page until Feb of *THIS* year. It's looked like this prior to then:  |
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I totally agree!
They like unacceptable acts such as stealing the coin right from the founding father’s arms (thankful-for-today) and stealing the code from BCN team ( as I noticed)
TFT is a "founding father" for using CN open source code. XMR Devs are "thieves" for using CN open source code. Double standard much? Also look up open source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source |
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Guys, I don't understand why Monero has 1135 votes on Hitbtc, but it is available to exchange now. How did this happen?
That was easy. Creators of the Monero bought "the place"on the exchange for its coins Really? This is disgraceful! Although I'm not surprised because Monero team renowned for its scandalous behavior I know right? I heard one of them put an old sock in the punch bowl at a party! Scandalous! |
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BCN is already at work on it, and I assume that if their version works, both XMR and BBR will adopt it.
Otherwise - it's not really that hard to grab LevelDB and use it.
Ah yes. LevelDB would be even better than SQLite for this purpose. |
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What do you think about the difficulty drop? Is it because people now run Claymore's miner without the dev fee at a hashrate penalty?
Certain types of mining become unprofitable at current prices. |
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I don't think we should get complacent about strategies to both reduce the size of the Cryptonote blockchains and more efficiently swap old parts to disk without needing the full chain to be resident in memory. Reason: The transaction volume of BTC is perhaps a little bit higher than that of XMR. BTC: 50-70,000 tx/day https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactionsXMR: under 2,000 tx/day http://monerochain.info/charts/transactionsIt's not a problem when nobody's using the currency for anything except trading, but that's not the desired endpoint. The desired endpoint is more Tx than bitcoin -- and now is a good time to start engineering to handle that. Bitcoin itself is no paragon of transaction scalability as it stands, if you think the cool goal for cryptocurrencies would be to dethrone, e.g., Visa. As to holding the block chain in memory... Lord no. This is just a bad decision on the part of the original reference or bytecoin code. I'm no expert here, but there are tons of robust scalable database solutions that run fine and fast from disk. SQLite for example would be a much better choice imo. Visas database has to be gargantuan. Bitcoin and eventually cryptonote Will scale. Technology advances fast enough that the concern they will not is a bit chicken little. This is not a reason to avoid optimizing. And God knows cryptonotes database implementation needs an overhaul. |
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Monero will decrease emission and inflation with disappear.
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But the signs all point up from here. And there's lots of them...
Do tell. Seriously, do tell. Current fundamental plusses: Only coin offering true privacy with ring signatures. One of very few coins to complement bitcoin rather than compete. Impossible to examine block chain for tracking funds. Serious candidate for crypto version of "Swiss account" Serious contender for crypto with cash equivalence for privacy. Smooth decreasing emission rate. Active development. Devs focusing on foundation not bling. Major interest from BCT "hero" members and BTC whales. POW (proven value creation) Active mining community. Zero premine. Zero ninja mine. Cpu/gpu friendly. Robust asic resistance. Current state inflationary but coin holds value. Smoothly rising difficulty. Smoothly rising hash rate. Relatively equitable distribution. Low hype. High signal to noise community here. No evidence of any pump/dump. Exchanges coming online. Future fundamental plusses: Gui imminent. Database overhaul underway. Website overhaul underway. Possible mobile client. Rpc wallet incoming. Technical plusses: (weak area) Consistent volume leader on exchanges. Seems to be finding support at recent lows. A real ta guy could fill that in. Chart looks pretty shitty to me. But the fundamentals are damn strong with this coin. |
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i jumped on the XMR party a few days ago. looks like i didnt time it too well  !! Meh. I know the feeling, but just remember hindsight doesn't help much until you zoom out enough for it to really matter. And the data isn't there yet. You didn't actually "jump the party" intending to leave after a couple free drinks right? Let the sample size grow a little bit and see how smart you actually were to get in anywhere close to the current price. I can't tell the future. No one can. But the signs all point up from here. And there's lots of them... |
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pool spam has to stop
I know how you feel. It does make this thread very noisy. I personally have just decided to never hash for pools who spam this thread in spite of being asked not to. I suppose next I will begin ignoring the spammers. Actually just started hitting ignore. Works great try it. |
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Because Bitcoin is traceable and only quasi anonymous, with mass surveillance a real thing it makes sense if you want to transact privately. Dont forget with good blockchain forensics by just paying for a small thing p2p someone can identify your general wealth etc. Dont get me wrong there are plenty of ways to mitigate the problem but from a general ease of use POV if its anon by default its generally just better.
Thats the great thing, I agree that it will be great for private transactions and in a P2P world without banks a lot of day to day transaction will become private. But it can do both, it can be great as an anon day to day currency lending the general population a modicum of privacy and well suited to the private transactions you speak of.
An interesting thought for me has been the idea that there are some financial transactions or even legal instruments where it benefits and protects both parties for it to be publicly provable. Your honor, I claim cAPSLOCK did not send me 300 bitcoins for my used Lambo! I am sorry Mr Goat, I can see right here on my phone where cAPSLOCK indeed send 300 bitcoins from his address to your address. Please give him the keys and transfer the title on the blockchain using counterparty. |
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I disagree with the poster who suggested it as a good store of value and not as a usable currency. I personally think it is very much the opposite of that and due to the privacy features is a much more desirable currency to use for everyday transactions than any other options.
I do agree it can be useful for transactions, but I think it will shine for use in private transactions primarily. Why would you not just use bitcoin otherwise? What percentage of transactions will this be? I do not know. Don't get me wrong. I am very bullish on XMR, and am just thinking out loud. I personally see Monero (or it's conqueror) as a compliment of bitcoin... each owning a specific utility in the marketplace of payments and wealth storage. |
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so, how easy will merchant adoption be for cryptonote vs bitcoin?
I am dubious that Monero ever achieves mass merchant adoption. It's use is further complicated and obfuscated compared to bitcoin. The need for a payment ID is one thing. I believe XMR stands a chance to be a better store of wealth than Bitcoin. And by doing this frees bitcoin up to concentrate on being a currency. That said, it COULD happen that Monero has success in merchant transactions. Who can say? |
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sure, you can change, but there's a lot of risk and loss of money involved.
Also, what about all the VCs, Wall street, and Merchant adoption. Will they follow you to your new beloved altcoin?
That's what i mean.
Facebook and myspace work well on their own (altough facebook has integration with many other websites nowadays, but back then it did not).
You can't just swap to an altcoin and expect merchants to accept it. What use is an altcoin with a 'better sourcecode' if you can't spend it anywhere?
That's why bitcoin will stay.
It's like, people switched from MySpace to facebook, but they still use HTTP to get there. They switched from hotmail to gmail, but they still use SMTP. Etc.
Since bitcoin has it's own protocol, that is by design not compatible with altcoins (as that would be like creating more than 21 million coins). Either the whole protocol itself will fail, or bitcoin will succeed, both as a protocol as well as a currency.
What is most likely to happen?
When it comes to a coin as currency nothing touches Bitcoin yet, And in my opinion nothing is really likely to. Network effect be praised, As you say it is Bitcoin's fate to succeed or fail. It is Bitcoin's game to win. That said, I personally see a relationship with bitcoin and at least one other coin(s) which will offer features bitcoin should not have to. Privacy for one. In fact I think bitcoin NEEDS a symbiotic relationship with coins as well as services which compliment it and even facilitate it's dominance in the areas where it is designed to work. The really successful altcoin will be the one that offers features bitcoin never can. It will actually protect bitcoin's dominance. |
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