rpietila Altcoin Observer

[digicoin]

XMR or BBR is an immature software. They will evolve over time for sure, but not overnight. However, CryptoNote is a powerful protocol. Adam Back, the father of Proof-of-Work, admits that it is very interesting and innovative technology. XMR or BBR holds our future in anonymous transaction. I believe so

[Triffin]

General question with regards to anonymous transactions ..

How would you quantify the threat of adverse regulatory action by
higher authorities 'vis a vis' potential abuses of anonymity to the
future market value/acceptance of coins with anonymous features ??

True transaction anonymity would certainly be an appealing feature to those
involved in various illegal activities while on the other hand I can see where
individuals and corporations would be disinclined to embrace BitCoin for fear that
'data mining' the block chain would reveal too much information about their
legal financial transactions/activites ..

Seems a fine line that an anonymous coin must walk to provide anonymity
and not attract excessive regulation or outright ban ..

Is this a legitimate concern with regards to the 'investability' of anonymous coins ??
And if anonymity ( pick your degree ) is desirable what prevents BitCoin from adding this feature ??

Just trying to learn ..

Triff ..

[dga]

Darkota, Gmaxwell was referring to the original implementation of Coinjoin. Darkcoin made significant improvements. Also, the data that moves between masternodes will be encrypted, making Darksend trustless. The instamine is inconsequential when it comes to adoption. In the end, Darkcoin is a far more practical solution for privacy.

Monero is now growing at only double Bitcoin's weekly mb chain additions, so Monero is perfectly practical even without the GUI (Which is coming).

Also the masternodes being encrypted does not solve the issue that the nodes can record what they are doing.

I have to ask, do you even know what you are talking about? Because: "Also, the data that moves between masternodes will be encrypted, making Darksend trustless" shows that you are completely mistaken. The encryption has nothing to do with making the transactions trustless, they are already trustless, that is the point of coinjoin, go back and read the original coinjoin concept and see trustless in the first post.

The trustless joining of transactions has nothing to do with requiring encryption. And this still doesn't solve the issue where a masternode can simply record it's in's and out's and thus un-anonymising the transactions.

I don't think we should get complacent about strategies to both reduce the size of the Cryptonote blockchains and more efficiently swap old parts to disk without needing the full chain to be resident in memory.

Reason:  The transaction volume of BTC is perhaps a little bit higher than that of XMR.

BTC:  50-70,000 tx/day  https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
XMR:  under 2,000 tx/day  http://monerochain.info/charts/transactions

It's not a problem when nobody's using the currency for anything except trading, but that's not the desired endpoint.  The desired endpoint is more Tx than bitcoin -- and now is a good time to start engineering to handle that.  Bitcoin itself is no paragon of transaction scalability as it stands, if you think the cool goal for cryptocurrencies would be to dethrone, e.g., Visa.

[Brilliantrocket]

Also, the data that moves between masternodes will be encrypted, making Darksend trustless.

Trustless in the sense that your transactions cannot be unmasked through masternode owner collusion.

That does not follow from link encryption.

Maybe I'm mistaken on encryption being the way its done, but the Dark developer stated that it's being worked on.

[darlidada]

Also, the data that moves between masternodes will be encrypted, making Darksend trustless.

Trustless in the sense that your transactions cannot be unmasked through masternode owner collusion.

That does not follow from link encryption.

Maybe I'm mistaken on encryption being the way its done, but the Dark developer stated that it's being worked on.

This is exactly why DRK is over priced : people are investing money into a coin whose proposal value is a work in progress. This is why XMR has such a potential growth : it only lacks what DRK already has : user friendliness and marketing.

I really feel for DRK supporters because they are being scammed out of their precious bitcoins and they dont even know about it. Another part of me thinks they deserve it because we've been calling it for what it is for a long time now.

[cAPSLOCK]

I don't think we should get complacent about strategies to both reduce the size of the Cryptonote blockchains and more efficiently swap old parts to disk without needing the full chain to be resident in memory.

Reason:  The transaction volume of BTC is perhaps a little bit higher than that of XMR.

BTC:  50-70,000 tx/day  https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
XMR:  under 2,000 tx/day  http://monerochain.info/charts/transactions

It's not a problem when nobody's using the currency for anything except trading, but that's not the desired endpoint.  The desired endpoint is more Tx than bitcoin -- and now is a good time to start engineering to handle that.  Bitcoin itself is no paragon of transaction scalability as it stands, if you think the cool goal for cryptocurrencies would be to dethrone, e.g., Visa.

As to holding the block chain in memory...  Lord no.   This is just a bad decision on the part of the original reference or bytecoin code.  I'm no expert here,  but there are tons of robust scalable database solutions that run fine and fast from disk.  SQLite for example would be a much better choice imo.

Visas database has to be gargantuan.   Bitcoin and eventually cryptonote Will scale.  Technology advances fast enough that the concern they will not is a bit chicken little.   This is not a reason to avoid optimizing.  And God knows cryptonotes database implementation needs an overhaul.

[Brilliantrocket]

Also, the data that moves between masternodes will be encrypted, making Darksend trustless.

Trustless in the sense that your transactions cannot be unmasked through masternode owner collusion.

That does not follow from link encryption.

Maybe I'm mistaken on encryption being the way its done, but the Dark developer stated that it's being worked on.

This is exactly why DRK is over priced : people are investing money into a coin whose proposal value is a work in progress. This is why XMR has such a potential growth : it only lacks what DRK already has : user friendliness and marketing.

I really feel for DRK supporters because they are being scammed out of their precious bitcoins and they dont even know about it. Another part of me thinks they deserve it because we've been calling it for what it is for a long time now.

Monero is just as much a work in progress until it gets ip obfuscation. Your argument doesn't make sense because it applies to all CN coins.

[digicoin]

Persistent database to store blockchain is what XMR devs plan to do. Should we set up a bounty to hire someone do it for us? E.x: https://github.com/pmwkaa/sophia this guy is extremely good at writing high performance embedded database

[darlidada]

Also, the data that moves between masternodes will be encrypted, making Darksend trustless.

Trustless in the sense that your transactions cannot be unmasked through masternode owner collusion.

That does not follow from link encryption.

Maybe I'm mistaken on encryption being the way its done, but the Dark developer stated that it's being worked on.

This is exactly why DRK is over priced : people are investing money into a coin whose proposal value is a work in progress. This is why XMR has such a potential growth : it only lacks what DRK already has : user friendliness and marketing.

I really feel for DRK supporters because they are being scammed out of their precious bitcoins and they dont even know about it. Another part of me thinks they deserve it because we've been calling it for what it is for a long time now.

Monero is just as much a work in progress until it gets ip obfuscation. Your argument doesn't make sense because it applies to all CN coins.

Your statement would make sense if masternodes were as good as ring signatures to protect your privacy. They are not. You may think they are sufficiently good but you would be wrong. Proof: the richest are not long term investing into DRK and the competents are not working hand in hand with DRK (I2P has a partnership with XMR)

Otherwise, I agree : my statement applies to every CN coins and that is exactly why DRK is destined to fail : every CN coin is literally better than DRK. You dont seem to understand that everyone on this thread is betting on technological advancement. You are betting on promises.

[darkota]

Also, the data that moves between masternodes will be encrypted, making Darksend trustless.

Trustless in the sense that your transactions cannot be unmasked through masternode owner collusion.

That does not follow from link encryption.

Maybe I'm mistaken on encryption being the way its done, but the Dark developer stated that it's being worked on.

This is exactly why DRK is over priced : people are investing money into a coin whose proposal value is a work in progress. This is why XMR has such a potential growth : it only lacks what DRK already has : user friendliness and marketing.

I really feel for DRK supporters because they are being scammed out of their precious bitcoins and they dont even know about it. Another part of me thinks they deserve it because we've been calling it for what it is for a long time now.

Monero is just as much a work in progress until it gets ip obfuscation. Your argument doesn't make sense because it applies to all CN coins.

Your statement would make sense if masternodes were as good as ring signatures to protect your privacy. They are not. You may think they are sufficiently good but you would be wrong the proof is within this thread : the richest are not long term investing into DRK.

Otherwise, I agree : my statement applies to every CN coins and that is exactly why DRK is destined to fail : every CN coin is literally better than DRK. You dont seem to understand that everyone on this thread is betting on technological advancement. You are betting on promises.

That is true, I am in Dark simply to sell at pumps and buy in at dumps. It is in no way a longterm investment coin, anyone saying that is just a bagholder like I am, looking to start a pump so they could dump again.

Dark is only offering promises of anonymity, even then, it's coinjoin based anonymity is leagues below the Ring Signature anonymity that Cryptonote coins offer.


Like darlidida said, every Cryptonote coin, no matter how bad the name or crappy the dev, is better than Darkcoin, simply because they already deliver anonymity by default, while Darkcoin doesn't.

[dga]

Persistent database to store blockchain is what XMR devs plan to do. Should we set up a bounty to hire someone do it for us? E.x: https://github.com/pmwkaa/sophia this guy is extremely good at writing high performance embedded database

BCN is already at work on it, and I assume that if their version works, both XMR and BBR will adopt it.

Otherwise - it's not really that hard to grab LevelDB and use it.

[cAPSLOCK]

BCN is already at work on it, and I assume that if their version works, both XMR and BBR will adopt it.

Otherwise - it's not really that hard to grab LevelDB and use it.

Ah yes.  LevelDB would be even better than SQLite for this purpose.

[Brilliantrocket]

Like darlidida said, every Cryptonote coin, no matter how bad the name or crappy the dev, is better than Darkcoin, simply because they already deliver anonymity by default, while Darkcoin doesn't.

The market disagrees with you as the DRK market cap exceeds all CN coins combined. This reflects the fact that CN coins are struggling with crippling problems. They have not yet been tested under even moderate transaction volumes. Until these issues are fixed, they'll continue to be very anonymous in the sense that no one will be hearing about them.

[binaryFate]

Like darlidida said, every Cryptonote coin, no matter how bad the name or crappy the dev, is better than Darkcoin, simply because they already deliver anonymity by default, while Darkcoin doesn't.

The market disagrees with you as the DRK market cap exceeds all CN coins combined. This reflects the fact that CN coins are struggling with crippling problems. They have not yet been tested under even moderate transaction volumes. Until these issues are fixed, they'll continue to be very anonymous in the sense that no one will be hearing about them.

(the market cap based on current supply is meaningless, you should look at the total market cap taking into account all coins to be mined).

But anyway, bookmarked this one, just to have a look again in 3~6 months. 

[darkota]

Like darlidida said, every Cryptonote coin, no matter how bad the name or crappy the dev, is better than Darkcoin, simply because they already deliver anonymity by default, while Darkcoin doesn't.

The market disagrees with you as the DRK market cap exceeds all CN coins combined. This reflects the fact that CN coins are struggling with crippling problems. They have not yet been tested under even moderate transaction volumes. Until these issues are fixed, they'll continue to be very anonymous in the sense that no one will be hearing about them.

(the market cap based on current supply is meaningless, you should look at the total market cap taking into account all coins to be mined).

But anyway, bookmarked this one, just to have a look again in 3~6 months.  

I Loled. Brilliantrocket doesn't realize Darkcoin's marketcap is based solely on hype, they promise anonymity, while Cryptonote coins already deliver anonymity.

Shows how delusional he is too, doesn't realize that Darkcoin is being currently manipulated aka supported/pumped/dumped by large whales. Yes, I've seen all those 300+, 700+ BTC buy walls go on for about 5 minutes, then get taken off immediately, just to drive the price up. Once those whales stop supporting this coin because of the Hype attributed to it, the "marketcap" will come crashing down to nothingness.

You don't seriously think a coin like Darkcoin, having the name it is, having the 50% instamine that it has, and having the lack of anonymity that is has, would of got that far if it wasn't for the large whales manipulating the market...Once those same whales pull out after having made enough money on the continuous pumps and dumps we've seen, that instamined-scamcoin will drop faster than a rock.

Of course you wouldn't know any of this brilliantrocket...

[digicoin]

Like darlidida said, every Cryptonote coin, no matter how bad the name or crappy the dev, is better than Darkcoin, simply because they already deliver anonymity by default, while Darkcoin doesn't.

The market disagrees with you as the DRK market cap exceeds all CN coins combined. This reflects the fact that CN coins are struggling with crippling problems. They have not yet been tested under even moderate transaction volumes. Until these issues are fixed, they'll continue to be very anonymous in the sense that no one will be hearing about them.

(the market cap based on current supply is meaningless, you should look at the total market cap taking into account all coins to be mined).

But anyway, bookmarked this one, just to have a look again in 3~6 months. 

Make sense. Challenges accepted. XMR and BBR will win 

[digicoin]

This https://cryptonotefoundation.org/

[binaryFate]

This https://cryptonotefoundation.org/

To me, this really looks like these guys are suddenly like "Oh shit! We're not going to make money from this tech". "Well, before launching our own stuff, let's start by trying to undermine the current coins, scam and fair ones all together, with a shit like http://www.coingen.io".

Emphasis on "trying".

[darkota]

I don't get, cryptonotefoundation.org...

Does that mean the maker of scrypt, charlie lee, should make a scryptfoundation.org?

or the maker of SHA256, should make a sha256foundation.org?

Lol.

(I know cryptonote isnt a algo, cryptonight is, but im just comparing it with other algos)

[AlexGR]

I Loled. Brilliantrocket doesn't realize Darkcoin's marketcap is based solely on hype, they promise anonymity, while Cryptonote coins already deliver anonymity.

1. There was no hype with DRK. The promotional plan was to deliver and the market will discover it. The market discovered it in an earlier phase (late beta / RCs) than what was desired, putting unnecessary pressure in development.

2. No coin currently delivers anonymity, in the sense of NSA-proof anonymity. Privacy / moderate anonymity, yes.

3. The scaling issue of CNs is a valid concern, so instead of deflecting this to DRK, maybe you should ask CN-coin devs to do something about it. It will not hurt your investment to do so. I've personally asked for a scaling test with hundreds/thousands of transactions to assess what the various CN coins do when stressed / loaded. My request has gone to deaf ears, leaving wide open the future FUD vector of someone doing it independently and declaring them as DoA coins for mass use / proof of concept only.