No, you don't understand. I forwarded the message + mail headers directly to burnside. I couldn't have altered the list, there's a paper trail.

You owe me an apology.

It's fuckups like this that made people think I was a scammer before. People like you need to wake up. I wasn't on a few lists too, quite ironically Ian Bakewell and BitcoinOZ's, two people who were extremely vocal in putting me down. Coincidences being what they are, if I were you, I'd apologize. I did. Life goes on.

I need Brendio's contact information to confirm when he is going to transfer me the 33,848 shares of BITVPS owed to NYAN.A. it's worth over 100BTC and I am sure NYAN's investors want that money very badly.

If anyone knows where brendio is, please give me his contact info. I already have his facebook/email/etc, and am looking for a phone number so I can call him. Thanks.

As with everything the price of TU.SILVER is driven by market demand. I am not the one selling at the ASK price right now. So you're not arguing with me -- I don't even need to say anything -- you're arguing with Mr. Market, and you're losing.

Most of your mistakes are addressed in our recent reports. You're free to disagree; and I am free not to care. I've put up bids at .1 and above, and I've written PUTs for an additional 150 shares at .1. Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.

Hello!

Taking a cue from GMP, we have initiated a shareholder protection plan. Enjoy!

いいなあ～

Translation: Wow, Nice!

You are right to hold silver. You are drinking upstream from the herd. Remember, it's cheap now because no one understands what is really happening with the silver market. The fact that BTC has tripled in the last couple of months is a gift. No one knows where the price is going next week or next month but if you have vision, you can predict what is going to happen next. You just don't know when it is going to happen.

You strike me as someone who has the sight. So. Buy a little today, buy a little tomorrow.

Thanks for your excellent advice, but we cannot open the books due to people like Deprived who shoot first and ask questions later. This is why we hired a 3rd party financial advisor to look over the books. When we do release financial statements, it is done once, and the numbers have been checked by multiple people who have experience dealing with 'large' funds (5,000 BTC+).

You can see how we calculate value for yourself by simply reading our most recent report.

I like how you demonstrate keeping things light and lively. You are being nice and put me in a good mood, so I will quickly explain to you what everyone else is intentionally missing. Starting from a balance of zero, we bought silver, which sent our cash balance negative (E. Cash Balance: -46.0237 BTC[7]). This figure also contains the value of the sold silver. To balance this, we add the value of the unsold silver, which we estimate using "ask" from "Price Guide" as a minimum value (C). This gives us a very simple net profit per share from coin sales minus what we paid for the silver.

To this is added the cash kitty and profits from selling options and other investments -- any values which are held on separate balance sheets to keep things readable.

Finally, to turn the value from a net value to a value we can sell units at in order not to lose money, we simply add our cost price for silver ("A", the "ask" from the price guide) on a per-share basis.

Simple stuff.

Thanks for the kind words. I am interested in supporting the community and your own efforts as well. I'll PM you with a few questions about silvervault if I may, as it looks like a valuable and needed service in the community. My main question is, if I could somehow store all of TU.SILVER's silver in silvervault. I'd prefer a community option even if it was a little more expensive.

No, we're a silver store, and we don't operate in the US.

Let me say this once and be perfectly clear.


You, MPOE-PR, and DannyM/pigeons, are being jerks.

First, pigeons lied to me, that he wasn't going to share the report. I'm going to remove his access now (no, you can't have your share back). Second, you were lied to by pigeons because you were given an edited version of the spreadsheet which did not explain what the ask figure represents. It is the end-calculation of the first spreadsheet. There are THREE further calculation sheets that number goes through before I get a book value.

You have been told over and over that you do not understand what you are talking about. You have been told to talk to DeaDTerra who does our books. But instead of honestly approaching DeaDTerra with questions you have chosen to engage me with dishonest debating tactics and flat-out lies.

From now on, if you or anyone has a question regarding the company's finances you MUST speak to me or DeaDTerra about it privately. I am not interested in enabling a troll.

What, you think DeaDTerra didn't look at our books or something? Wow Deprived, this is getting truly pathetic. Please, just take the out I'm giving you. You're right. You can stop now




Lol, this guy! I'm in tears! THANK YOU, Deprived! I'm going to have to put this guy on ignore just to get some work done, I'm laughing so hard!

Yeah, in C. So?


You are a very confused individual.


This is getting embarrassing Deprived... Tell you what, I agree with you, you're right. I'm going to bow out of this one now

It is entirely a misinterpretation by you. "According to my report", A is the total quantity of silver in the fund (80oz), not the unsold silver. This is in fact proof that each share represents 1/10th of an oz. of silver and has nothing to do with sold or unsold shares.

I am a little busy working on kongzi right now. I'll do my best to answer anything reasonable, but I've already answered this line of questioning and you need to move on from it now.

The company owns it. Essentially, since I am liable for it, I own it.


The problem with your 'point' is that it rests on a series of very big "ifs". You keep saying "if". You said "if" ten times when hypothesizing how my business operates. So on a very basic level you don't understand how we operate, and that is why basic questions like "who owns the silver" appear unclear to you. Maybe you should be approaching this a different way. You should ask questions. In this case, I've answered your question above (I own the silver) so there's no need to go into detail on the great number of "ifs" which follow.

Anyway, let me know if you have any questions I can answer. Your points are interesting in and of themselves and I'm sure once you get on track with how we operate you will understand it. Until then, rest assured that everything is okay here.

Oh, by the way, I think there's a clause in the BitFunder contract that states any customer can get access to our books for a fee of one unit of the fund. Let me know if you're interested in that offer. Chat soon!

Yes, we are a coin shop. We even let customers choose which coins they want us to send them. We post pictures and they can select which coins they want. Thanks for your concern. How we operate is similar to how many other businesses accross the world operate. I've covered this in several of the posts I've made last week as those issues have been raised.

Tradefortress on IRC just told me I was wrong about being the only legal coin shop. There is one in Europe which is not covered by these regulations, BitAurum.eu. There's also a BTC coin shop in Australia IIRC.

I think we (the people who are interested in PMs) should make a list of who it's ok to shop from for now. That would be constructive.

I don't know.

I read it to state that if you're selling metal you own, it's okay, but if you are exchanging to USD in order to complete the sale with a third party, it's illegal.

Looking it over quite a few times I'm now convinced that "funds" such as GOLD are not targeted by this report. They don't violate section 1, 2 or 3, which is to say there is no "third party that is not part of the currency or commodity transaction".

A few people on IRC were commenting that, basically, things will be OK so long as you never mix bitcoins with "legal tender". I'd add to that "on behalf of someone else". So a fund would just need to be careful about how they buy and sell precious metals. Basically don't buy in BTC from any coin shop that is not a registered money transmitter and which performs a currency conversion on your behalf in order to complete your order. This means any kind of shop which drop shops, or orders from a third party supplier after you send them bitcoins. As a fund, you wouldn't be able to get around this by doing the conversion yourself and then ordering from, say APMEX. Because then you would be doing a currency conversion and would need to be a registered money transmitter yourself.

I'd speculate there are two reasons why this is being done this way. One, they don't want anonymous people doing bitcoin transactions anymore. So they will de-anonymize it by causing everyone who performs money transactions to "know your customer" or lose their license. Second, bitcoin has become big enough that governments realize they can make money by taxing/regulating it. I suspect a $1,000 money transmitter license is just the beginning. I believe jgarzik's quote will become famous;


I think this is what will send bitcoin to $100. It's "legal" now. Big business can move in.

IANAL but according to the quote, it appears illegal to use Bitcoin to buy USD from a third party on behalf of a customer. The point seems to be, they've separated the transaction into two parts (the currency transaction and the sale of the metal) and said "Wait a minute, you're exchanging money on behalf of other people, you need to register". Or am I reading that wrong?

Again, I'm sure this will be no big deal. I am sure existing coin shops and funds will act quickly to rectify their non-compliance. For example, there's over 40,000 licensed money transmitters in the US already, and it only costs $1000 to register in Washington state ([12:32] <Bugpowder> http://mortgage.nationwidelicensingsystem.org/slr/PublishedStateDocuments/WA-Currency-Exchange-Company-New-App-Checklist.pdf).

As you may or may not be aware, on March 18th, FinCEN (the Financial Crime Enforcement Network) published a paper detailing it’s stance on virtual currencies.The full FinCEN report is here.

The following excerpt relates directly to the sale and trade of Bitcoin precious metals:

     a. E-Currencies and E-Precious Metals

            The first type of activity involves electronic trading in e-currencies or e-precious metals.13 In 2008, FinCEN issued guidance stating that as long as a broker or dealer in real currency or other commodities accepts and transmits funds solely for the purpose of effecting a bona fide purchase or sale of the real currency or other commodities for or with a customer, such person is not acting as a money transmitter under the regulations.14

            However, if the broker or dealer transfers funds between a customer and a third party that is not part of the currency or commodity transaction, such transmission of funds is no longer a fundamental element of the actual transaction necessary to execute the contract for the purchase or sale of the currency or the other commodity. This scenario is, therefore, money transmission.15 Examples include, in part, (1) the transfer of funds between a customer and a third party by permitting a third party to fund a customer's account; (2) the transfer of value from a customer's currency or commodity position to the account of another customer; or (3) the closing out of a customer's currency or commodity position, with a transfer of proceeds to a third party. Since the definition of a money transmitter does not differentiate between real currencies and convertible virtual currencies, the same rules apply to brokers and dealers of e-currency and e-precious metals.

As TU.SILVER stocks all the silver it sells, it is now the only legal coin shop in the community. Any coin shop which operates in conjunction with a third party or drop ships, is now illegal. Further, as ownership of TU.SILVER shares represent silver which has been reserved for shipping to customers on a fully allocated, 100% backed-by-stocked-silver basis, TU.SILVER is now the only legal precious metals “fund” in the community. All other "funds" which do not do this (which have no direct backing and redemption policy) are now illegal.
While we are sure that all existing coin shops and precious metals funds will act quickly to register with the proper authorities, we must point out now that it is a risk to deal with them until this situation is resolved.

For more information on TU.SILVER and how to protect your money in today’s crazy BTC market, please visit the TU.SILVER page on BitFunder:
https://bitfunder.com/asset/TU.SILVER

Updates for March 19th:


Update (March 19th): The Mass Index continues to decline. A past-position comparison leads me to suspect we may still have another 10% left in this rally, or in dollar terms a top around $55


Update (March 19th): The MFI continues to decline, leading me to suspect this is the last week of the rally.