guys just have patience, they will relase a blog post soon
Yes, everyone will be paid if you have little patience but at the same time, Dev team also should respond to people's panic, so that things will settle. Everyone is posting the messages about their concerns because whether Dev team should take this as a higher priority. Payments will be made, we do not need to worry, however, the spreadsheet is incomplete because some people have not yet provided their address. In addition, people are talking about the amount of coin distributed, it is causing a lot of controversy. Actually, there's only one address in the spreadsheet, and I'm sure many people provided their addresses to campaign manager, so what's the problem to fill in the collected addresses and start payouts? |
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Since we are going to release a light wallet it seems may I ask for one thing:
Make sure someone technical writes reasons that this is a good competitor vs sonm,golem,iexec because otherwise No Functionality + No MVP = FAILURE
sonm, golem, iexec are all work in progress and have no real functionality, so they're currently all FAILURE, right? |
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@yossir you cant mix fair community voting as we have it here (every participant can give his voice with a vote to a question the community decided it is important to vote about) with "democracy" in our mordern world where yout vote a colour (party) and then they will rule for around 5 years and do decissions for you (mostly influeneced from other things but that would be a long topic).
so our todays system should not even be called democracy as they have nothing to do with it.
elastic is not just some individuals who made a small donation, everyone had the chance to participate it had a ultra fair timeline so we all have been same and people took a big risk during that time to dont know where the project will go to.
so in my opinion its much more fair (and maybe in future even better with a voting system that is more advantaged) to let the community decide what direction we want to go.
I think that we are bit offtopic but yet I will try to explain my point of view in very short way. I strongly believe that the one's that actually do the hard work - should choose what will be done with it. Donations to projects - are what they are, donations. Not investments. so risk, timeline etc are not relevant as I DONATED to possibility of new great technology that is happening right before our eyes. ( I don't have anything against if I will make mil. or 5 in the process ) Their generosity of people who actually did something in this project, in giving all the work to people should not be exploited even if there is a possibility of it, without them agree to that, which I havn't seen. Thats more or less my problem with all this voting and choosing what to do with someone else's work (not mine, I am too lazy to something like many others - I gave money). And you correct, Is kind of wierd hybrid of democracy, but yet it has all the problems of it, you never know how proffesional or rational people's votes, but let's leave this subject and focus on Elastic. Not sure what's your point actually, but there's discussion each time a decision is required. Then the community votes. Many ideas were discussed and not all were voted - looks like voting takes places naturally for major decisions only. As simple as that. [Edit] There's no way everyone will agree for everything - that's why we vote. The most important individuals to this project don't take active part in this discussions and almost no one who actively discuss it - don't take part in actual project development or improvement. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRe_Ql5-J2FX1EVVrABcw4Dq1inXGzcVMJK0IFlcFz1SJQJUV_hUQAs simple as that. You're wrong - try to follow the last 15-20 pages, and you'll notice that many important individuals expressed their opinions, inlcuding EK, coralreefer, unvoid, and many more. I think Elasticracy works perfectly. Would you like to be captured by "important individuals" like it is in Bitcoin now? What is EK's,{ edit: added coralreefer, unvoid } opinion to this matter that you saw? Can you please refer me to it as I can't find it. If you ask me, and again, it's only my opinion, I would like to know, at least on some level, who makes the descisions and how he is "invested" in this project. What happens with "we" and "community" is bit funny to me, but again, don't take this to serious. It's one man opinion. One opinion from EK below, for the rest, feel free to find them yourself... :-) Why do we
need a Lite-version at all, if you could do this stuff you showed on the testnet? I never said, that we need a lite wallet. The community just showed interest in a lite wallet because the "full features" are partly unstable, not tested well enough, and things would still need some time. But who am I to decide, my vote (and I hope this is this way because we are a democratic project) is only worth a fraction - exactly as much as my XEL holdings weigh in a vote. So if someone starts a vote, I will vote for no. But if yes wins, I can assist with coding (not launching). |
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@yossir you cant mix fair community voting as we have it here (every participant can give his voice with a vote to a question the community decided it is important to vote about) with "democracy" in our mordern world where yout vote a colour (party) and then they will rule for around 5 years and do decissions for you (mostly influeneced from other things but that would be a long topic).
so our todays system should not even be called democracy as they have nothing to do with it.
elastic is not just some individuals who made a small donation, everyone had the chance to participate it had a ultra fair timeline so we all have been same and people took a big risk during that time to dont know where the project will go to.
so in my opinion its much more fair (and maybe in future even better with a voting system that is more advantaged) to let the community decide what direction we want to go.
I think that we are bit offtopic but yet I will try to explain my point of view in very short way. I strongly believe that the one's that actually do the hard work - should choose what will be done with it. Donations to projects - are what they are, donations. Not investments. so risk, timeline etc are not relevant as I DONATED to possibility of new great technology that is happening right before our eyes. ( I don't have anything against if I will make mil. or 5 in the process ) Their generosity of people who actually did something in this project, in giving all the work to people should not be exploited even if there is a possibility of it, without them agree to that, which I havn't seen. Thats more or less my problem with all this voting and choosing what to do with someone else's work (not mine, I am too lazy to something like many others - I gave money). And you correct, Is kind of wierd hybrid of democracy, but yet it has all the problems of it, you never know how proffesional or rational people's votes, but let's leave this subject and focus on Elastic. Not sure what's your point actually, but there's discussion each time a decision is required. Then the community votes. Many ideas were discussed and not all were voted - looks like voting takes places naturally for major decisions only. As simple as that. [Edit] There's no way everyone will agree for everything - that's why we vote. The most important individuals to this project don't take active part in this discussions and almost no one who actively discuss it - don't take part in actual project development or improvement. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRe_Ql5-J2FX1EVVrABcw4Dq1inXGzcVMJK0IFlcFz1SJQJUV_hUQAs simple as that. You're wrong - try to follow the last 15-20 pages, and you'll notice that many important individuals expressed their opinions, inlcuding EK, coralreefer, unvoid, and many more. I think Elasticracy works perfectly. Would you like to be captured by "important individuals" like it is in Bitcoin now? |
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@yossir you cant mix fair community voting as we have it here (every participant can give his voice with a vote to a question the community decided it is important to vote about) with "democracy" in our mordern world where yout vote a colour (party) and then they will rule for around 5 years and do decissions for you (mostly influeneced from other things but that would be a long topic).
so our todays system should not even be called democracy as they have nothing to do with it.
elastic is not just some individuals who made a small donation, everyone had the chance to participate it had a ultra fair timeline so we all have been same and people took a big risk during that time to dont know where the project will go to.
so in my opinion its much more fair (and maybe in future even better with a voting system that is more advantaged) to let the community decide what direction we want to go.
I think that we are bit offtopic but yet I will try to explain my point of view in very short way. I strongly believe that the one's that actually do the hard work - should choose what will be done with it. Donations to projects - are what they are, donations. Not investments. so risk, timeline etc are not relevant as I DONATED to possibility of new great technology that is happening right before our eyes. ( I don't have anything against if I will make mil. or 5 in the process ) Their generosity of people who actually did something in this project, in giving all the work to people should not be exploited even if there is a possibility of it, without them agree to that, which I havn't seen. Thats more or less my problem with all this voting and choosing what to do with someone else's work (not mine, I am too lazy to something like many others - I gave money). And you correct, Is kind of wierd hybrid of democracy, but yet it has all the problems of it, you never know how proffesional or rational people's votes, but let's leave this subject and focus on Elastic. Not sure what's your point actually, but there's discussion each time a decision is required. Then the community votes. Many ideas were discussed and not all were voted - looks like voting takes places naturally for major decisions only. As simple as that. [Edit] There's no way everyone will agree for everything - that's why we vote. |
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Thanks unvoid. BTW, I love the way the voting is organized with elasticracy. Brilliant. Yeah, would be cool to have elasticracy built in the wallet (some day) |
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Why i can't find XEL on poloniex or bittrex?
can some body tell me where is this coin trade on? i want to keep my eyes on it
It's not listed. Still in development... |
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There's no guarantee for MVP to be ready in 1-2 months. As per Coralreefer, just one of the components of MVP might be ready by December ( he even said pick the year ! , December 2018 ?). Despite titles like " Greedy", " Inpatient ",..... I still think the simple Lite wallet is a good start and after that, also speculation will make this project grow technically and financially. We can donate XEL to the devs, advertisement, etc. and the devs will be invested in the project so their work will benefit them as well, instead of a contract worker getting paid by a limited Bitcoin and after the work is done, they will be gone.
Please don't think through your emotions, think logically what's best for this project in the long run.
Yep, looks like we have agreement for lite wallet YES/NO voting, so let's wait for logo voting to end first. Then unvoid will start lite wallet poll. Again, tradable token will allow for funding current developers, and attract new ones to help coralreefer and EK. Perhaps, thanks to this, we'll have MVP ealier than December (this year). |
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Well, I don't know what to say....
I tried to post a while back that I need help coding the ElasticPL engine...but it go buried under 2 pages of pure crap.....then they deleted the crap...
I just don't understand this project...I personally don't care if it goes to mainnet or not...I have asked for months to find a way to get more devs involved...
It's like people here just can't understand what is posted....you just read what you want to read....whether or not EK needs help coding....I need help with the ElasticPL engine....I don't get paid to work on this....there is a ton of coding to be done...
So maybe EK is your satoshi, whatever...it's my code that is holding things up...and as of now...I don't see it being done any time before December (you pick the year)
@coralreefer: although you don't care about mainnet, we actually urgently need lite wallet and ... the mainnet, just because we need tradable token and then foundation So please someone start a poll Proposal for poll options - Lite wallet allowing transfers [a week of work for EK] - MVP described by EK here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.msg18931600#msg18931600 [needs ETA from EK and/or coralreefer, but probably few months minimum] - Full product [undefined features, undefined time] |
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BTC donated to devs work more as a short term payout for work. With XEL stakes, stakeholders have long term incentive, so donating XEL is much better option.
That's why transferable token would be more attractive not only to devs, but also for other people interested in long term perspective of the project.
Early donators could also fund anything without a need for formal structure, dump to market and get out, or buy more, burn, or whatever they wish...
If anyone wants to wait, then just do nothing - what's the difference with lite wallet or without it?
Let's make a decision to not end up as myspace of supercomputing projects.
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From EK's awesome updates and one of a kind Bitcoin mining video to voting on the logo and the excitement everyone felt to complete silence now . I don't understand  ... he may decide to leave the project if he can not finish it alone. Why do you think so...? |
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i think a voting is good solution for sure.
Let's have a vote. It seems like there's three options: - Release the XEL tokens to allow new people (hopefully dev, test and PR) to gain a financial stake in the project and allow those that want to get out to do so.
- Release a lite version
- Wait until we have a MVP
Your first two options are the same actually - you can't release tokens without a lite wallet. So, we have these options: - Lite wallet allowing transfers - a week of work for EK - MVP described by EK here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.msg18931600#msg18931600 - for me it's few weeks minimum (if not few months) - Full product - undefined features, undefined time |
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In simplicity:
The pos rate is 20%. Masternode holders divide equally, 50% of all POS rewards each day.
Vegas
So, both types of nodes do the same? No difference there in tasks performed? |
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Repost so everyone knows whats coming very soon: There will be a swap. Dont worry , you wont miss it. I will allow people an additional 30 days after the swap is "complete" to turn in their old XDE2 and convert them. The new wallet and masternode system will be up and running at the LATEST Saturday 14th of May 2017. This will happen much faster than I thought (about 7 days from now). It will be a 1:1 ratio. Money supply reduced by 15,000 XDE2 (ALL 15,000 coins will be lost from the community wallet). This will bring the money supply back down to 29,000 , keeping it VERY rare. Masternodes will be rewarded 50% of ALL POS rewards (Including when the "Golden Eagle community wallet stakes also @ 500%). POS is 20%. 1/2 of ALL pos rewards goes to masternodes. Youll be able to make multiple masternodes and you should. Cost is 500 XDE2 per masternode. Example: 6 Masternodes total of the network. 50% of ALL POS rewards to be divided among all masternode holders. Current POS is 20%. Total POS (20%) rewards for the day 200 for example. Masternode takes 1/2 of that and divides it among all masternode holders equally. Example: Masternode holders: Jimmy (has 3 masternodes) Steve (has 2 masternodes) Dave (has 1 masternode) Total masternodes reward for the day 100 (1/2 of total pos rewards which was 200 XDE2) Jimmy gets 49.8% of total masternodes reward 50 XDE2 or at current price of $2 per coin , would be $100 for that day. Steve gets 33% of total masternodes reward for the day. That is 33 XDE2 @$2 a coin is $66 for that day. Dave gets 16% of the total masternode reward , totaling 16 XDE2 @ $2 a coin , is $32 for that day. IF your one of the first to setup a masternode, you get BIG rewards as there are not any others. The other issue is there is a VERY limited supply on Yobit. Price will rise FAST. Ok..I hope this explains whats going to be coming up very soon (Less than 6 days) Vegas Have no time for investigating it, so could you please shortly explain the differences between master nodes and regular nodes? |
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Voting when made, should include not only the option for a lite client that only has transfer capabilities, but also other options such as an mvp - a product that has some of the capabilities we want in the system but not fully featured.
This issue was not discussed with EK and should be talked about here and receive some agreement before any voting is made.
When you talk about having a democratic vote it is not enough to have the option to vote, it is also important to supply enough voting options that give everyone their option to voice their opinion.
The way I see it we do not need to go only black or white (black being a launch with a lite client that can only transfer coins, and white being a launch with a fully working all feature included system - hence my suggestion for gray - MVP - let us agree what it should include and what should be offered later after release).
Yep, let's wait for EK then I think 3 options would be enough: (1) Basic wallet with transfer feature (2) Minimum-featured stable wallet - to be defined (3) Maximum-featured stable wallet - to be defined For options (2) and (3) we would need to know possible ETAs |
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Unvoid, could you please set up the voting for the Lite wallet ?
Hold on - not that easy. Let's wait for EK's opinion on this I definitely do think that we do need to reach an agreement on what is required for stable base version and what we should strive to supply in the future as a fully viable system, and I think that the most eligible person to give insights to this matter is EK.
EK can you please give us your opinion on these important issues?
then we can define poll options |
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I will be speaking in terms of Elastic price. As someone said "people are more willing to pay for expectations", than for a ready product, because it gives an opportunity for future profits.
If we release a fully ready product, the initial price will be very high, which is, of course, very good for early donators, but is it good for newcomers?
So cons releasing just a Lite client at the moment:
- low price at the beginning (but constantly rising when new features are coming); //"Waves" is a good example. They had only a LiteClient for a ~year, so the price fell almost x2 times below ICO once. Now, when they released token creation, decentralized exchange, Leased PoS, - features expected as an MVP - the price rose x2,5 times the ICO.
Pros:
- good chance to come in for new investors, developers, exchanges; //This is important. If big exchanges like Bittrex or Poloniex will have a chance to buy a stake early for a low price, Elastic will be most probably listed on them
- great trade volume // This will also attract big exchanges
- ability to create a foundation and attract more devs, bug hunters (like HunterMinerCrafter).
Releasing an MVP will give a higher price and won't be so attractive for newcomers as releasing a LiteClient, IMO.
An MVP as the name implies means that there will be more features and functionalities released later on to give a fully featured working product - I believe that this should be the minimal starting position for xel when launched. In regard to attracting more people to the project, I have no doubt that many will join especially if we show that we have a working product with more innovation and features to come instead of being just another coin with no viable substance. Regarding people not joining if the price of the market of xel is high - i think this is complete nonsense, this project will attract 1000 times more attention if we launch with some meaningful meat on the bone and not just a promise. Investors will invest (especially if we show we already deliver something but aim to deliver even more) and devs seeing the potential and wanting to join will flock. Well, this is all fine and you seem to be right BUT please try to answer the following: -what do you consider "fully featured working product" ? -what is "some meaningful meat on the bone" ? -when do you think the "meat" will be ready for the launch - weeks, months, years? I really don't get your idealistic and actually utopian approach. For me, coralreefer is right I believe the more we test, the more we realize better ways to provide more flexibility / value to xel job authors and it becomes a never ending cycle. Ideally, I think it would be best if a solid version that includes basic ElasticPL functionality is deployed...but even with that we now have a couple question...do we stick with the POW model we have?, EK identified some issues with the underlying memory model so we need to determine if changes are needed there, etc...and this was just in the last 24 hours. What's wrong with such approach? Why not launch with solid base version now? No one in this world is waiting for fully featured products - what if Zuckerberg was waiting with FB launch until it's perfect? FB wouldn't be launched even now... Let's agree what is required for stable base version, and try to launch it finally. |
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Making the launch before we even have a stable MVP with important working functionalities this project is aiming for is a HUGE mistake.
It does not have to be 100% perfect with all the future functionalities we wish to have for the system (perhaps that would be utopia), BUT, it needs to have enough meat to be worth something substantial when entering the market.
Elastic is not the first to reach the market (other projects are there before us), it has no deep pockets as some projects have after raising millions in the ico (we need to open a foundation and collect some donations for this), the ONLY thing that we can have as an advantage today is to release something that actually works (even if it has only some of the functions working at launch) - a lite wallet will completely miss this point.
And again, after we have such product to launch we need to have a ready website with minimal info (what we have is not even close to being good enough).
I understand that some of the people who invested want to join the boiling market to take a piece of that huge pie, but we need to stay patient enough to do this smart, otherwise we will be flushing this amazing project to the drains.
Give EK the credit he deserves - he delivered so much so far, let him take us to the point where we can launch it well with at least some of the needed features with a stable system - I can promise you all that this will draw much more positive attention also to future devs to join.
(side note: for those who prefer to make a fast launch of a coin with no functionality so they can buy cheap coins before the system can gain greater value - don't cripple this project for your own wishes for personal gains).
We need to take a vote on this as a community and all the pros and cons need to be fully outlined. Pros: -market attention -people awareness -more developers attracted -funds for development can be collected in a dedicated pool -early dumpers will be out of the project -no more "when mainnet?" questions Cons: -waiting for your suggestions |
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I haven't requested 2FA, so why the hell am I required to enter phone number after login to taas.fund?
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