I agree with the OP and others: the oligopoly of the pools and the monopoly of MtGox has already made the talk about decentralized Bitcoin a pure fantasy, and a disingenuous advertising gimmick...  The people who really did that were not the pool operators or the late comers. It was the early adopters who started to mine with GPU's that forced people who couldn't afford top GPU's into pools. It wasn't enough for people like ArtForz just to get their large share as early adopters. They wanted to shovel B with clusters and become "Bitcoin billionaires" out of simple, old-fashioned greed, and just because they could...  (Same with MtG, but that's a different topic...) They are the ones who created this security issue. I think the solution should be limits built into the protocol, but they would never accept that either, because just as with the traditional Wall-Street bankers, no amount of money is enough for them... One thing i can say for myself: if Bitcoin gets attacked the DDOS-for-51% way, i am not going to "mine at a loss" to protect their fortunes, just as i wasn't for Wall-Street bank bailouts... |
|
|
|
|
I don't know who is telling the truth here, but i believe the Madhatter, because his great reputation in the community is long-standing and at the top tier, imho.
He has done a great deal to promote Bitcoin, and has given all of us valuable information and advice many times, which is recorded in this forum...
Whatever really happened in this deal, the Madhatter and his Bitcoin4cash is certainly NOT a "fraud," imho...
|
|
|
|
I never cease to be amazed by the pathological American arrogance, and the view that the world will in all aspects continue to revolve around "The US" in this century, just as it did in the last one! It's a country that comprises 4% of the world population, is broke and in debt as far as one can predict into the future, is on the verge of fiscal collapse as predicted by its own politicians and their commissions, and whose currency is also likely to collapse within this decade... When USD does collapse, there will be no place for Americans to run, except ahead to things like Bitcoin and its clones, and backwards to gold and other such juju beads... Even if "The US" bans such things as Bitcoin in its usual arrogance by declaring it part of "The War on Terrorism and Drugs" or something, i think that in the vast majority of the world - or as the Americans call it "the rest of the world" - Bitcoin will continue to do well... |
|
|
|
Кстати, да. Надо подумать и обсудить, как можно защититься от сабжа удобнейшим способом.
Мне нравится польский вариант - https://bitmarket.eu/ - где биржа не берёт фантиков. У них только, как я понял, во время сделки Биткойны депонированы. Передачу их можно подтвердить через bitcoinexplorer, и данныи биржи... Сейчас испытываю этот агрегат. Как на Ваш взгляд? |
|
|
|
Предлагаю не кормить тролля...
Разумно! Те кто здесь не первый день, уже сполна накатались на таких троллейбусах... Не стоит в 125-ый раз отвечать на подобное. Как всегда, время покажет какая валюта для "лузеров"... |
|
|
|
На Mt.Gox гораздо дольше нельзя было вывести средства. 7 дней это несерьезно.
Успокаиваю, потому что это пока что не мошенничество, а от паники вреда больше.
Правильно! Наверняка у всех быкующих это были не последнии ни фантики ни зайчики... А если последнии в Биткойн вбросили, то сами понимаете... Соболезную всем потерпевшим, включая обвиняемого, и благодарен что не среди них... Мира и удачи всем!  |
|
|
|
run on the bank
во время отлива мы увидим кто плавал без трусов
К сожалению, думаю мы как обычно не узнаем кто и как раздел их до гола...  |
|
|
|
Но в том, что паникуют в основном свеженабежавшие новички, он прав. И это мне тоже кажется подозрительным.
+1 |
|
|
|
Для каких целей можно использовать большие объемы теплого воздуха?
Мне пока кроме отопления загородного дома ничего в голову не приходит...
Можно еще попробовать что-нибудь сушить, но что?
...я по старым обычаям сушу сухари, в ожидании того что нас всех вороны скоро загребут за подрыв государственных валют... |
|
|
|
Или это серьезный маркетмейкер у которого две позиции - на покупку и на продажу и он их согласованно двигает.
+1 |
|
|
|
No entiendo. Éste es el foro en español, y casi todos los paises que lo hablan se ubican en latinoamérica. Entonces no veo el punto de hacer dos foros diferentes para dos cosas casi iguales.
Mire la portada del foro. Hay las secciones de Local>French, German, Russian. Español no hay. Èste es la secciòn de Local>Other. |
|
|
|
Saludos! ¿Por que no le piden a la gerencia del foro que les creen la sección latina por acá, como tienen los rusos, alemanes, etc? Ha llegado el tiempo... |
|
|
|
i understand your concern... but trying to prevent dark pools is like alcohol and drug prohibition - it sounds good on paper, but it'll never work. every trade on bitcoin-otc is a 'dark pool' trade. every time someone buys on bitcoin4cash, it's a 'dark pool' trade - inasmuch as the bids and asks aren't visible, nor are trade amounts. so the "full dark" pool on mtgox is really nothing different - it is a separate market, like any other direct p2p exchanger.
Well, if the Bitcoin world is already full of dark pools, and the one at MtGox is such a trifle, whose functionality will be duplicated by bots according to others here, then MtGox can only gain in trustworthiness by abandoning it. It can say, “Look at that dark pool world out there! Here at MtGox, we have a completely clear, well-lit pool!” The reason so many dark-pool dwellers want it to remain, is because it's not really a trifle that you present it to be, and is not as you put it “essentially a separate exchange." That's clear from the fact that a separate exchange would have its own pre-trade volume and bid/ask metrics, which would not be aggregated into post-trade MtGox metrics. The dark pool is designed specifically to obfuscate those metrics, and allow dark pool dwellers to avoid the lumps of price discovery participation taken by open traders, yet get its full benefits, as if they are trading outside MtGox. As toffoo said, those metrics would be “decoupled” from MtGox metrics pre-trade, and would only be aggregated into the metrics post-trade. That's a classic, definition, real-time price discovery distortion of the pre-trade information at Bitcoin's main exchange. In this thread i have already provided data that the majority of CFA Institute surveyed professionals (70%) - both in Europe and US - consider dark pool operation “problematic” for both price discovery and market volatility. They operate in a world of exchanges where iceberg pools already exist. |
|
|
|
Wow, spoken like a true politician. Lots of fear mongering, no facts.
Unlike you, i've already cited my facts earlier in this thread, and showed you where to find more. You're the one being a peanut-gallery, soundbite politician, but from another party – the Wall Street Party. We all yet again saw in 2008 how unpolitical that party is: during the good times “get the government out of the way so we can rape and pillage. ...no, we meant create investor value.” When the crap hit the fan the same too-big-to-fail artists ran right to the politicians to save their big fortunes at taxpayer and small investor's expense... The same arrangement is already appearing in Bitcoin. Now that times are reasonably good, the same large professional investors want the latitude to hoodwink the small amateur ones via manipulation tools such as dark pools. If Bitcoin ever comes under attack, the same dark pool dwellers are already making plans to ask the same small investors to mine Bitcoins “at a loss to protect the network” (and their large fortunes...)  |
|
|
|
Please correct me if i misunderstood: if the iceberg option is implemented, the dark-pool-only option will still exist. That means that the MtGox Bitcoin price will still be distorted, because some of the largest funds will be able to skirt the fundamental forces of supply and demand in the price discovery at Bitcoin's main exchange. Then my vote is still to remove the dark pool, and keep things simple in Bitcoin's natural style. One of the main reasons Bitcoin was invented was to give people an alternative to the corrupt manipulated monetary and exchange system that exists - not to become just another fancy extension of it, with all of its underhanded, hypocritical tricks and double-standards... From the Main-Street perspective, imho, the biggest concern and impediment to widespread adoption is not the Bitcoin market volatility; rather it's a question of trust and suspicion that Bitcoin's market value is being distorted and manipulated by the same traditionally crooked entities we all know so well... As already stated, dark pool artists and other large cheaters have plenty of resources to open dark exchanges, create bots, and find innumerable ways to cheat the markets and the rest of us. (Bernie Madoff – one of the founders of NASDAQ – proved that for all times...) Let them do it in their own dark and shady places... Let the Bitcoin price discovered at MtGox – Bitcoin's flagship exchange – be free of dark pool's distortion, beyond suspicion and reproach. |
|
|
|
|
Will the iceberg option "carry an explicit cost penalty in the form of a larger execution cost charged by the market"?
|
|
|
|
In can be shown that dark pool orders work towards stabilizing current price. Thus it is good for the market because volatility is the biggest problem.
This is just a piece of FUD. You cannot explain how dark pools are bad for you and so you resort to emotions about "big guys" and "bending over".
As i mentioned, i've already explained elsewhere why dark pools are not for me, and detrimental to Bitcoin imho... No need to take my word for it though. Those on both sides of the ocean, who “have a clue about trading”, don't seem to agree with you or S3052 or the rest of the dark-pool dwellers regarding dark pools and their effect on price discovery, volatility, or liquidity: http://cachef.ft.com/cms/s/0/f2f7e53c-e343-11de-8d36-00144feab49a.htmlIt comes from this CFA Institute report: http://www.cfapubs.org/toc/ccb/2009/2009/13Here is another useful snippet: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5f8b10c-0f70-11de-ba10-0000779fd2ac.htmlAll you have to do is google “dark pools currency exchange distortion” to find out more about the way "happy big guys" are riding the rest of us... |
|
|
|
There is also the unfair fact that 1 big trader is more valuable to the market than 1 small one since a big trader provides more liquidity. So an exchange has more incentive to keep the big guys happy.
I'm actually a bit curious what would happen if the order book wasn't shown at all. I suppose it would make trading less interesting.
The point is also that dark pools distort price discovery and the commodity's market price, at any given moment... I think one of the main reasons Bitcoin and its successors have a bright future, is because in the existing financial system, zillions of small guys are really sick of being bent over by all types of entities “to keep the big guys happy.” There are far more small guys than big guys... If the books were completely closed, my bet is that eventually an insider trading gang will form around whoever does have access to the books, and will be able to distort and manipulate the price even better than now... I get that the free-market cheaters and hypocrites will continue to devise ways to cheat the fundamental market forces and be hypocritical about it, because it's profitable to them, and well-worth the complex, technical rationalizations and self-delusions. I am just not willing to partake in such places anymore. I am sure the happy big guys won't miss my small money... So, have fun, jed! |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
