I think I've made my poin... er, embarrassed myself enough.  I think you should be embarrassed for misleading people. The trust is really just holding Bitcoin for a fee. In March 2014 they will allow investors to trade shares with each other but the size of the trust will only grow larger if they buy more Bitcoin. It's not a derivative investment. To say that they will not buy more Bitcoin once they sell all of the shares backed by the Bitcoin they already bought is wrong and by not admitting your fault, you are misleading readers of this thread, some of which might think you know what you're talking about. |
|
|
|
based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC. Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there. i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will. the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't. So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference. Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus. No it's a trust that holds bitcoin: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trusttrust noun \ˈtrəst\
: belief that someone or something is reliable, good, honest, effective, etc.
: an arrangement in which someone's property or money is legally held or managed by someone else or by an organization (such as a bank) for usually a set period of time
: an organization that results from the creation of a trust |
|
|
|
based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC. You will have to re-read it then. Each share represents .1 BTC (diluted by expenses). If they want to keep selling shares, they will have to keep buying coin. |
|
|
|
The price development story here is not the effect that purchasing for this fund will have, but the opening of more funds like this and other derivative instruments. The affect on price will happen on a much longer timeline than many of you are thinking.
perhaps. but this announcement really should be looked at as the 2nd fund to announce this strategy next to Winklevii. it's possible that "speculation" could result in a sooner ramp than you think. especially since we've had this nice long consolidation period of 5-6 months now. charts are looking primed. I will concede only that what is not known is not priced in. What is known, most importantly, what is known by the 'smart money' is already priced in. And I beg to differ that these are equivalent strategies. The ETF will be trading in and out of Bitcoin—that is, whenever they have a reliable means to do so. But the trust will not. People will be trading in and out of the trust, but it will be a limited pool of coins that won't change substantially. They have stated that initially each share would represent .1 Bitcoin, and that this would slowly go down over time as they fractionalize the shares. You are wrong, they said they will take their expenses out of the .1 but they did not say that new investors would dilute the initial investors holdings of Bitcoin. They will buy .1 Bitcoin for each share in the fund which will be diluted by expenses. http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket-launches-bitcoin-investment-trust-invests-2-million/Initially, each BIT share will represent 0.1 bitcoins, but the trust will not generate any income and will regularly sell/distribute bitcoins to pay for on-going expenses, so the amount of bitcoin represented by each share will gradually decline over time. |
|
|
|
|
Anyone who sells a single Bitcoin right now is a complete moron. There is a truly limited supply which doesn't exist anywhere else in the investment world. When the institutional investors get their hands on them, (which they have been unable to do until today) they won't be selling them back to you or putting them on these amateur exchanges. They could easily buy every Bitcoin on all of the exchanges in a couple of days. When the price goes to $1000, it could happen overnight and your tiny $200 ask price will be eaten on the way up. You haven't seen a real whale yet.
|
|
|
|
Wow I see the panic starting.
Good news for all of you who are starting to worry,
Say the word and I will start group buys and buy all of you out.
Plenty of folks are ready to scoop up your orders should you lose the stomach for the process.
SOLD! 100 BTC per Jupiter. |
|
|
|
KNC's Chinese website said they will show off the machine in Shanghai on 9/29. I don't think they could afford to miss the date. It's a huge market there for Nov. orders, especially after Avalon disappointed everybody.
Just saw it in KNC forums... Special demonstration for Chinese investors = massive dump of hashing power on the network in November. |
|
|
|
Mmm well I guess we won't hear much until the coming days are upon us.
Now I'm certain sept orders won't ship in time. They didn't even say if their chips got done packaging or not, which is pretty surprising.
I guess chips arrived today and should have arrived at monday. Not looking extemely good at the moment imo. Only good thing is that if knc is late the diff spike that knc will produce is delayed also... If chips arrived, they would have a picture of a packaged chip. You can bet on that. They don't have the chips. |
|
|
|
Video in coming days Liars. Coming days? You've got to be kidding right? No video for a few days means no shipping until even later. |
|
|
|
|
I think the problem is in understanding English. ROI is not return "OF" your investment, it is return "ON" your investment! Huge difference.
|
|
|
|
I really want to see KNC and Cointerra delivering and going head to head.
Cointerra? Lol. Maybe KNC and Bitfury. |
|
|
|
what is up with the barrage of 1 btc sells every 5-10 seconds? its hypnotizing. good way to sell 1000s of coins without really moving/scaring the market. good way to induce movements but costly if wrong. maybe not too costly.
Its been going on for days now. Looks like the same person is buying 1 BTC every 5-10 seconds on Bitstamp. |
|
|
|
When i e-mailed Sam last night to ask about the chips. And the process, He didn't give out to much information. But responded quickly. Not much we can do right now. But sit back and wait. Or ask for a refund. Me i have waited this long i will wait another two weeks and go from there my self. But if anyone was interested in his response here it is. " Hi Everything is still on track. The Chips are only about 10% of the design. People think that the complexity is ALL in the chip which it’s not, They are a VERY important part that’s for sure but not the only important part. The boards are actually a very complicated part of the design and the on board controller takes many more man hours to develop than the chips. We have 25 staff here at KnC all working towards the same goal in many different departments. There is a lot going on, and so far all departments are on track. There are two weeks left and we still believe that we will ship boxes this month. Rest assured that we are here and working towards the goal as fast as we can. If we miss this deadline it will be very upsetting for us but so far I know of nothing that is likely to cause us to miss our deadline. Thanks, Sam Med vänlig hälsning | Best regards Sam Cole Kncminer www.kncminer.comOffice: +46 8559 253 20" Now, that's what I like to hear. Understanding all of the pieces that go into the miner besides the chip is why KNC will succeed even if they are a little late and others will continue to fail over and over again. I feel sorry for anyone who put money into hashfast or cointerra. |
|
|
|
I wish KnC could definitively tell us what the hashrate of the miners will be.
Based on the KnC forum comments about the chip timeframe, September isn't sounding as likely right now...
As soon as they have chips in hand, I'm sure they will let us know. |
|
|
|
I really don't get all this talk about withdrawing dollars from Gox. I know my money has been in Gox for a long time and I have no intention of withdrawing it. I invested in Bitcoin with that money and that is where it will stay. I could move to Bitstamp but the green homepage is almost unbearable to look at and there is almost no action over there. I buy and sell on Gox because that's where the big price moves happen. I go back and forth between Dollars and BTC but why would I withdraw? I am guessing the whales are in the same situation. Its all about acquiring more Bitcoin and Gox is where the action is.
It takes a special kinda retard to invest like this. Whats the problem guys it is just and exchange that you cant use to exchange?.. nothing to see here folks move along. If people are stupid enough to use the strategy you deserve to lose your money. bitstamp 43.40% 8454.90 124.89 USD mtgox 37.02% 7211.98 138.22 USD Retard? People sure get brave when they're sitting behind a computer. The exchange worked great. I exchanged my dollars for Bitcoin. If I wanted dollars, I would have just kept them in the first place. |
|
|
|
|
I really don't get all this talk about withdrawing dollars from Gox. I know my money has been in Gox for a long time and I have no intention of withdrawing it. I invested in Bitcoin with that money and that is where it will stay. I could move to Bitstamp but the green homepage is almost unbearable to look at and there is almost no action over there. I buy and sell on Gox because that's where the big price moves happen. I go back and forth between Dollars and BTC but why would I withdraw? I am guessing the whales are in the same situation. Its all about acquiring more Bitcoin and Gox is where the action is.
|
|
|
|
so what can I do now? Is there any possibility to get my coins back? I already made a full search of my pc with kaspersky internet security and it found nothing... Now I downloaded SuperAntiSpyware. Scanning Progress is still running. 65 threats detected till now  There is no way to get Bitcoins back. That's the whole point of Bitcoin. There are no refunds or chargebacks. It's like cash that you had under your mattress. When they robbed your house, they took the cash. |
|
|
|
The 12.99 was definitely sent on 2013-06-21 to: 1326nUTE25zue2swJ5USMguvbiYqZ3hFPY 3b81b2342c991eabfbdeb0c6d8c1ee08b153fa81870ba555a70db5cb9bb797c2 and then to 1GcSZdgUE44ihWUjMAwiVPGdyQzS5JCBnB c4ff9834f6bb81f8d29d6c5e264349c8660bb706dbe5e84889f5f98b43782a44 and then to 1FQg7hZt1ujNHDQpU9LWgAKQ8YXC6Dogqj a1d5259297b7d53db042b5469092a8f87d24eade4cefd2b2f36434eaf8fed82a which is used here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237954.0and looks like an Avalon group buy on the Chinese board. The coins were not available to spend from 1H6qdVBkPoZ52HfxFrkyK9vBQXq1FZxF1a 2 weeks ago which is why the transaction to GOX didn't go through. |
|
|
|
Thought no chips were to go out until after the backlog was cleared.
...unless you offer champagne. |
|
|
|
Hey how come nobody has counted the number of PSU bags and multiplied by 3 to derive the total number of hosted units ?
We were waiting for you... |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
