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I believe Enterpoint has plans to do more production runs, so you should check with them. Yohan is their representative on the board.
I have been selling off my boards, but I pulled my offer after someone stepped in with a bid of 7 BTC / board for most of them.
If you are eager enough to match that number, we could talk. :-)
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For the record, this thread doesn't belong in Scam Accusations.
BFL might be a scam, but it's more likely they are just a bunch of idiots.
GMaxwell moved the thread without consulting me.
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Meh, flipped the fund a quarter BTC. A full BTC seemed a bit much considering it just hit $93.
Very funny. I know BFL is probably pretty close to shipping, but I love this kinda trolling.
Thanks. Any amount is appreciated. The address has 0.7364 BTC right now. Josh has dropped has bid from 6 ads to 7 because he knows he can't afford to outbid me. I would love to bump up to a second ad (2.5 BTC needed right now) to force his ad costs up. If he bids it up I will match up to a number I have in mind, and then drop out, so that the money can be recycled for next week. With luck, I can refund everybody when this little party ends. :-) |
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GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam. My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations. BTW, hoping for the community to pitch in a bit more for next week. Josh knows he can't afford to outbid me on one ad, so he only bid for 6 ad slots. I'd like to squeeze him by outbidding him on another. So far I have 0.7364. Toss some bit pennies my way so I can squeeze him on his advertising prices. I will stop upping the bid on the second ad at some (secret) point, so that the community coins will roll over to cost him money again next week.  |
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It would not quell dozen of loud and stupid people who can't see almost epic difference between medium computer case very noisy
machine consuming 600W+ and one that does the same job but fits in a palm, is silent and consumes 60W. Because of those people,
there are no regular updates.
Of course it's silent. It doesn't do anything. My pet rock has been silent for 30 years now. Are you going to give me $30k if I call it a mining rig? |
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I am just upset at the lack of communication and payouts. He used to be so active here, now he says nothing. He doesn't indicate a regular period of when we can expect payouts. He doesn't show calculations of how much the site has made in revenue vs the latest payment. Heck, he didn't even pay out anything the last few months until today.
I can sympathize with his position. He'll likely never be able to pay back the entire BTC balance, so every hour he spends conducting activities for bitfloor, he's essentially working for free. And that will likely never change. That would be discouraging as hell. But it still doesn't change what happened. He needs to be in communication of some sort, or at the very least, give regular monthly payments.
Or make sure anyone owed a govt currency is paid.. and the rest who are owed bitcoin? well that is just a made up internet token and just never pay it. walk away and never come back. Sure someone might sue you but I doubt it would last very long in court once the details come out that the only thing lost was some "fake internet tokens". I am not dissing bitcoin. I am just saying it is the most likely path for this to play out. I would agree with you, up until FinCEN defined bitcoin as a currency. That is a huge game changer across the board, and specifically in this situation. |
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We all support a business decision that was first and foremost a pure benefit to BFL partially at the expense of ourselves.
The reason I say this is if they would of only taken a deposit that was payable when they were close to shipping, we would of had our coins to invest with. [...]
I wish this was the case. It could have saved me a bunch of headaches instead of tying up my money for 7+ months, not to mention given many initial customers peace of mind. This, of course, raises the question of "why didn't this happen?", and my initial guess is that they did need initial funds to cover some of the costs to develop ASIC chips (..existing profit from FPGAs probably wasn't nearly enough). [...] fails of the Ethics of Care which looks at the overall affect of the action. They did not care about enough about how much power they weld and instead used it to beat the GPU & FPGA innovation into the ground.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I remember a thing or two from my Business Ethics classes  1. On your first point. Yes, this is likely correct. They needed more money for development, but then we can't forget this supposed "venture capitalist". Til this date, we still have no information about this person, company or transaction so we should just assume, PRE-ORDER CUSTOMERS are the venture capitalist unknowingly. Regardless of being their offering being real or not, people should remember these tactics and make BFL hold their business practices to a higher standard. 2. Thank you, the Ethics of Care arguments fits this discussion so well. They took advantage by disadvantaging MINERS (Made additional investments in GPU, FPGA and ASIC inherently very RISKY) and CUSTOMERS ( by taking all the coins). Just to expand the venture capital statement, this was used in my opinion to make people feel like " they didn't need the money" and the shipment date was so close (June to Oct), it was right around the corner so they could justify giving up their coins to get a " place in line". On the other hand, if customers would of been told up front, delivery would be in 2013, they would of gotten order, not as many and this would of allow more FPGA competition to come into the market before ASIC. THIS SHOULD OF HAPPENED before ASIC. In the end, people would of still bought ASIC from BFL (best in class) but they would of been able to provide more efficient hashing to the network and made more investments in getting coins. Thoughts? Your analysis is on the money. But I made the same determination last June, and used that knowledge to aggressively build out an FPGA farm. The bad news for me was that BFL's BS brought real engineers into the fray who are putting ASICs on the network right now. Otherwise I think the development of ASIC solutions would only be starting with the current exchange rate ramp. That is the problem with scams. They often make losers out of everyone, not just the folks naive enough to be sucked in. |
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Western Union. A company Bitcoin makes completely obsolete. Current market cap: $4.2B, or $375 / bitcoin.
That is just 1 minor application for bitcoin.
Last I heard Western Union pays and receives in the respective local currency. With bitcoin you would need two extra exchanges. Of course, in the far future people can buy their bread and butter directly with bitcoin, but until we get there, Western Union has the advantage. No. Western union has little independent shops that pay local currency for a tiny taste of their fees. Western union takes hours to process. With bitcoin you can walk into the tiny shop, agree on an exchange rate and have the funds at there address in seconds and confirmed in a few minutes. There is work in teaching the independent shops how to use it, but the advantage is strongly on bitcoin's side. I was discussing the details of implementing a charity to do this with Mexican laborers today. It won't be that hard to make it happen. Big companies are slow and complacent. By the time they notice the new bitcoin sticker in their retail outlets half their fee volume will be gone. |
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My problem with it is you will give 5% when he has paid 2.5% in less than a year and volume is increasing. He just needs to communicate more is the problem. This plan has proven unsatisfactory because it takes too long: As clients are aware. The theft result in all BTC balances being put on hold for both trading and withdrawal. This is still the case. I will not be doing a balance reset or otherwise manually adjusting your bitcoin balance to reflect the theft. Any new bitcoin deposits you make will be available for use as usual and be reflected on your account overview page. Your balance as of the theft will remain on hold and be released in parts as we begin to recover funds to pay back balances. As funds are available for repayment, they will be dispersed on a pro-rated basis (i.e. if 5% of the funds are available for repayment then 5% of your original pre-theft balance will be unheld and immediately available for trading or withdrawal). https://plus.google.com/109620439233076225324/postsI also offered to share any profits if you want to take some risk. It is going to be costly to move forward. Just the legal bills to put together a clear conveyance of debts to me could push $10k. Then lawyers need to be educated on bitcoin and find the applicable regulations and form an argument. I will lose money doing this. 100% certain. The only reason I am considering it, is that I believe it is very unhealthy for the community to allow the precedent that depositors can be forced to carry the burden of failure. Communication on Roman's part would put us in a totally different place. Unfortunately he has been silent, which shows great disrespect for the people he owes over $2M to as of today. I expect the silence is on advice of counsel. I also expect we are approaching a point where the lack of action will be viewed by a court as consent. |
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Off topic: I like how this thread went to shit after, like, 4 posts. Though I suppose that's to be expected..
On topic:
I have no doubt that they're working on developing some "top tier" tech (compared to everything else coming / already out). My biggest qualms come from the blatant dispersion of misinformation and lack of solid evidence.
After everything that we've seen so far and the difficulties BFL has run into, there's no way they would have actually shipped in 2012..and my guess is that they very well knew that. Essentially they create intricate company timelines as to how everything will proceed, but consistently fail to take Murphy's Law into account during it all.
Their general incompetence was pretty clear when they put Josh in charge of PR. If you're representing a company and trying to create positive public relations, there's absolutely no reason to go about trolling. A PR person should be able to let insults roll off, like "water on a duck's back". Simple as that. I don't think the thread went to shit exactly, that won't happen until Josh shows up. There's a whole lot of anger being directed at BFL and justifiably so, they've caused damage that extends to those that didn't even order from them IMO. I believe we have to get past this notion that their delays are caused by incompetence. While I've said the same thing myself in the past, in hindsight, I think it's pretty clear that they just want everyone to believe they're incompetent. Seriously, there's no way Josh could have believed there was any chance whatsoever that BFL would be able to ship a finished ASIC product before 12/31/2012 when he routinely implied as much in early and mid December. He's done the same thing over and over. There's simply no way. Josh is many things, but he's not dumb. When did they set up their new facility again? At this point I'd like someone to explain to me like I'm five how there's any chance at all that BFL didn't deliberately dismantle the FPGA market and cause a whole lot of people to lose mining revenue by making what in hindsight were awful decisions based on misinformation supplied by BFL to support their blatantly premature ASIC announcement. I believe they had a very limited supply of FPGA chips and when their source dried up they concocted this elaborate scheme to damage their competitors and gain the upper hand in the future ASIC mining market. They very plainly had next to nothing done in fall of 2012, yet they consistently pretended as though they could be ready to ship at any time. This isn't tomfoolery, or shenanigans, it's fraud. They've cost people a lot of money with their market manipulation games. You're obviously bright Korbman, and I know you have BFL orders, can you explain to me where I'm wrong here? ...also as to Josh specifically and his PR job, I think he's done an absolutely masterful job of isolating and attacking any and all outspoken outliers here. If someone asks tough questions about BFL, particularly about their financial solvency, Inaba nearly always shows up and begins with the verbal assault. Shortly there after the thread is moved to the "troll museum" or newbies begin to attack Josh's target like a string of over protective groupies. Think about his comments about how a few posters here allegedly increase BFL sales by asking tough questions about BFL. That stuff is brilliant because it sticks with people and plants a seed of doubt in their minds. Sorry Dalkore, it isn't my intent to thread crap. This response may be better suited for the scam accusation sub. I don't think it's thread crapping at all. There is more to the decision to announce something they couldn't deliver than running out of FPGAs. BFL was clearly using order money for working capital. When Enterpoint stepped in and offered boards with payment on delivery, BFL's plan of using 3 months of order queued money to run operations was disrupted. BFL in turn created their "FPGAs are obsolete, except for ours which you can trade in meme". This both crippled their FPGA competitors, and refilled their treasury with Scrooge McDuck sized piles of other people money. Which they have probably spent by now. Speaking of thread crapping... My ad about BFL has been submitted. It links to this thread. Sorry Dalkore, you are going to have a lot of moderating to do here. |
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What are the dimensions of the Avalon case? LxWxH
What direction does air flow through the case? Exhaust through the power supply side, or is that the intake?
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Bitfloor seized my money.
Bitfloor didn't "seize" your money, there was no money to seize. It was stolen, remember. All Bitfloor did is say, "I screwed up, and I owe you this much money. I don't have ANY money now, but I will keep what I still owe you on the books, and pay it back as best I can whenever I get any money." I think the most a lawsuit can accomplish is to force Bitfloor to acknowledge that they owe you money, put the debt they owe you on their books, and pay it back as best as they can whenever they get any money. Which is what they are doing already, anyway. At worst, you can just shut the business down completely, in which case, please buy all of the rest of US who are depending on him to repay us, FIRST.Citation needed for that theft. Where is the police report? |
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If you find it acceptable for operators of exchanges to seize your money then that is good for you.
I don't find it acceptable. And Bitfloor is bankrupt. There are enough bankrupt banks operating in the fiat world. Bitcoin doesn't need any.
If you disagree: Buy me out.
Did he seize your money or is he bankrupt? Make up your mind. Bitfloor is not a bank, and your solution is to waste a lot of time and money with the goal to make it harder for him to make people whole. Ask Bitcoinica holders how many payments they have made back since the last hack. If you disagree: you are not thinking clearly. He is bankrupt. He owes over $2M in BTC and does not have the funds. In order to continue operating he has seized those funds from all depositors of BTC on his site. |
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Another 50 years with no interest and Roman will have paid us back!!!
Or, you could incur legal expenses and spread FUD and make sure he has no way to pay back. Great idea! If you find it acceptable for operators of exchanges to seize your money then that is good for you. I don't find it acceptable. And Bitfloor is bankrupt. There are enough bankrupt banks operating in the fiat world. Bitcoin doesn't need any. If you disagree: Buy me out. What can make you satisfied? I don't know, honestly. There is a serious principle at stake, and Bitcoin is getting to the point where stands need to be made on ethical grounds or the system will collapse, and the bubble pointers will shout I told you so. I offered at 30 cents on the dollar right after the "theft". This was at a time pirate debt was trading at 0.50. There were no takers. People preferred Pirate's debt to Roman's. Since Roman has never taken any input from us, or even responded to the many viable suggestions of how he could resolve the debt, I find the whole 'Bitfloor needs your help' plea to be repulsive. Bitfloor seized my money. And by the way; You are all welcome for the 1% payback I forced. |
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Another 50 years with no interest and Roman will have paid us back!!!
Or, you could incur legal expenses and spread FUD and make sure he has no way to pay back. Great idea! If you find it acceptable for operators of exchanges to seize your money then that is good for you. I don't find it acceptable. And Bitfloor is bankrupt. There are enough bankrupt banks operating in the fiat world. Bitcoin doesn't need any. If you disagree: Buy me out. |
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updated OP to add Josh Zerlan's DirecTV hacking past: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-ksd-2_03-cv-02287Also to add a working theory: Josh Zerlan seems to know almost nothing about ASIC manufacturing, so how did he get that job? What about this recent post about how Josh appears to be a customer of BFL as well? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157329.0 just spitballin' here, but what if josh bought a few minirigs? he runs Eclipse mining pool, and seems to have set up his own mining rigs. Of course he would be a natural BFL customer... so he has some pre-orders, then maybe they talk him into working for hardware or something. I wonder if JZ is even getting paid... I don't know who the puppetmaster is, but Sonny or that Nassir guy seem top of the list. my 2x satoshi's Josh and GigaVPS clearly had advance notice of the plan to announce an ASIC product. Both of them dumped mining bonds onto GBSLE days in advance of the pre-announce announcement. This gave them both buckets of BTC to buy gear with, and allowed them to sell "stocks" that were hammered down by the news of impending ASIC shipments. Given the attack dog response from Josh when I pointed out taking credit card payments for products you aren't shipping is against credit card processing rules, I think he was employed by BFL, or invested in BFL, long before he came out of the closet. |
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Does anyone know for sure (no trolling please) what BFL's game is?
There hasn't been an update for over a week now.
Do their chips work? Have they even tested the chips on the board(s)?
It is very odd that there has been no news at all since they tool delivery of the ASICs?
Surely by now, there would be some news about their testing?
Of course, delivery dates will be better.
Read between the lines, or in this case, lack of lines. Get your refund before the race to the exits causes the whole building to fall down. |
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8 btc for all
the bids are per board, so you have been out bid long ago. Sorry about that.... everyone in this thread has bid for all so far...wasn't clear if the reserve price was per board.... makes more sense though  No worries. Currently the winning bids are: Marto 6 @ 4.2 BTC each |
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