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781  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin, debt as deep as the banks couldn't have imagined. on: January 24, 2012, 05:14:26 AM
Just as fyi, I was trying to tackle this problem from a financial/lender point of view last summer, trying to figure out how loans and interest can even be calculated in a deflationary economy. The solution we came up with is a formula similar to the current Present Value of Annuity formula (example of it switched to calculate payments here http://www.financeformulas.net/Loan_Payment_Formula.html) that all lenders use to calculate term/interest/payment amounts, though a bit more complex. In summary, instead of you paying the same amount every month as you do with mortgages and car loans now, your payments would be heavily frontloaded, with the first payment being rather large, and each month's consecutive payment decreasing until the final comparably tiny payment. From the perspective of the lender, they get back the same amount of value they would get had they invested the bitcoin at the same interest they lent it out at, plus the deflationary value growth of bitcoin. From the borrower point of view, even though each month's payment is a different number, after bitcoin deflation is taken into account, the actual value of the payment remains the same.
Hope that made sense.

That actually sounds like a great way to handle interest payments in a deflationary currency.

Of course, it'll probably take a while before it needs to be implemented, considering the current volatility.
782  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Introducing Bitbills! on: January 24, 2012, 04:54:32 AM
You could even sell cards that have the same public key as a bar or coin. I could stick the bar somewhere safe (like in a literal safe) and carry around the card.  If I want to make long term deposits or just show off bitcoin, I just scan a QR code on my card and I'm done.  No need to have the private key even on the card.

If that's all you're looking for, someone already produces it.

http://paymyaddress.com

I've made a number of purchases from them, both for myself and for others, and find their cards to be of good quality.
783  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin's Development History (Video) on: January 23, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
Nice!
784  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: January 21, 2012, 05:20:17 PM
What keeps you from using numerical pin when the password field accepts alphanum characters?

Android shows a different keyboard if you can only enter numeric. Like a dial pad, nice big buttons.

Perhaps he could allow all three options: no PIN, numeric PIN, or alphanumeric PIN. Might be a little redundant, but shouldn't be much more coding either.

(And if not, I suppose one could always tweak the code... a change like that might only take a moment.)
785  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 18.6 btc transaction fee? on: January 20, 2012, 11:37:51 PM
Maybe someone thought it would get their transaction processed really, really, really quickly? Smiley

Hmm... JIT mining, where additional hashing power comes online when large fees are detected... workable?...
786  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Real-world useful application for Bitcoin: Malware/Hacker Canary on: January 20, 2012, 07:37:23 PM
You can use ChangeDetection for email alerts when a blockexplorer.com page changes.

May as well just start doing this and advise others to do the same, it might just catch on.

Great link. Thanks!
787  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Real-world useful application for Bitcoin: Malware/Hacker Canary on: January 19, 2012, 03:43:29 AM
Yep. I've already been doing it with a small wallet. So far, no thefts....
788  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world! on: January 19, 2012, 03:25:04 AM
If someone has something of value to add that could help the development of RLC, please dont hesitate to post.
How about fixing the many known design flaws and bugs in Bitcoin that Bitcoin can't fix right now due to compatbility?

luke, let us know when to join your pool so we can help take this one down too.

Sad
789  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gold in Rectum - Or reason #15242 why Bitcoin is valuable on: January 18, 2012, 07:40:56 PM
Ignoring bitcoins, how would you smuggle that much gold?

What scenario are you thinking? The one that got those guys caught (from S.Korea to Japan,) some other, or in general?

My first thought would to be to actually make it into real jewelry. I don't know that women wearing jewelry won't get stopped and charged a tariff for wearing it into the country though, so that may be out.


The situation these guys were in: Trying to transport gold from S.Korea to Japan.

....

Some other tricks: melt the coins into the shape of dollar coins, and coat with a material that makes it look normal. You could fill the inside of crutches with gold, or the tubing for a baby stroller (you will need to borrow a baby for this one). Basically anything where metal is expected and can be replaced with gold and concealed would work.

That one almost seems foolproof, as long as it's solid. Just make it look like it should be heavy.
790  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin's first industrial purpose on: January 18, 2012, 06:04:07 PM
you don't want,  nor could you really have an alternate chain do it...  you need the robust computing power that bitcoin already has...  start forking it and you'll have 3 guys mining (most likely owned by the voting booth company) and controlling everything.

You really have to use bitcoin.

Good point.

Few things would ruin the introduction of a new voting method faster than finding it's been taken over power-wise within days of operation.
791  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin's first industrial purpose on: January 18, 2012, 05:25:42 PM
I think any "industrial" use of bitcoins is a good idea, provided fees are included, and there's not too much bloat. (Otherwise, an alternate chain could handle it, and I still think it would just strengthen Bitcoin by confirming the validity of the design.)

This particular use of bitcoins sounds quite promising.
792  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Advertising on physical Bitcoins? on: January 18, 2012, 05:23:05 PM
Hmm. I first I started thinking along the lines of "Wal-Coins", then maybe coins advertising local mom-and-pop shops.

But then I remembered Wal-Mart cards already exist.

I think the idea of other companies getting into bitcoins is good and will happen, but I think those into it for the advertising will want the cheapest possible medium, and probably one more familiar to the populace. I suspect plastic cards and possibly paper coupons/vouchers will be the preferred method--but the idea itself is still sound.

Too bad BitBills bit the dust, but isn't BitCardz coming about? Perhaps they could be contacted about this.
793  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gold in Rectum - Or reason #15242 why Bitcoin is valuable on: January 18, 2012, 04:17:29 AM
Ignoring bitcoins, how would you smuggle that much gold?

What scenario are you thinking? The one that got those guys caught (from S.Korea to Japan,) some other, or in general?

My first thought would to be to actually make it into real jewelry. I don't know that women wearing jewelry won't get stopped and charged a tariff for wearing it into the country though, so that may be out.
794  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world! on: January 18, 2012, 03:02:21 AM
I have no serious beef with closed-source software in general. If you want to keep RealCoin closed-source, I'm not going to scream and holler until you change it. More power to you.

But I personally prefer open-source, and the more I learn the more I prefer it. Of course I use closed-source code, but I've noticed my drifting toward more and more open-source material years ago. It's transparent. It's usually free. It allows greater innovation and error-checking. And while I don't usually play with the code, I can if I want. That all just seems to fit the spirit of the developing information age more closely. Centralization vs. decentralization. Control to others vs. trust in an "authority."

And with Bitcoin, I have an open-source alternative to RealCoin... so until something seriously superior about it materializes, I have no reason to even try it. It would be against my preferences. Kind of like asking someone who prefers a kosher diet to try this new bacon diet. Nah, I'll pass.

Again though, good luck. I'm still interested in seeing how this all pans out; I'll probably check it out in-depth after the switch to open-source occurs.


So you are actually saying that you dont trust one of the best developers of this community.

When i see an application that i can use and comes from a reliable source i focus on actually putting it to work and using it not spent time playing with the code.

There is no place/time for games when it comes to business. You want something that works and gets the job done. And btw dont you use anything that doenst give you the source?

I do understand that when something is available and open source (like bitcoin) its hard to accept something that is not open source but its just a simple temporary measure. Thats all.



How r u going to protect ur *coin against attacks of guys like Luke Jr.? Read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56675.0 to know what could happen.

You can only mine using the official client on your CPU. The exact mechanism how this is done is kept secret for the time being and is pretty difficult to reverse engineer. This is only a temporary measure while the network is still small.

Wait a minute. The expectation is that we will all run this code on our computers, without knowledge of exactly what's going on under the hood, and without the ability to look at the source?

No offense, but, after having gotten used to the transparency bitcoin offers... screw that.

795  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world! on: January 18, 2012, 02:53:54 AM
I'm not sure if people have realized this yet, but RealCoin is attempting to offer an idea so simple, so basic, and yet so NEEDED that can't be found anywhere in Bitcoin:

A client/miner rolled into one.

Now, assuming LTC already acts as a counterpart to Bitcoin (I'm not sure to what extent this is true, I've never dabbled in LTC) then Real Coin really doesn't serve much of a purpose in my opinion.

Why don't you get in touch with Gavin to implement an automatic miner in the Bitcoin client?

IIRC, Bitcoin had CPU mining integrated into the client up to version 0.3.0.

But really, past a certain point, it's not necessary, because the average Joe can't really earn anything that way anyhow.

Think about it. The intent (in part, according to the creator) of RealCoin seems to be to allow just anyone to hit a button on their computer, generate stuff, and trade it in for cash at a profit. Without effort. Forever.

How realistic is that? When the early adopters first generated bitcoins, sure, they cranked out a bunch, but they had to wait YEARS before they even knew the system was going to succeed, never mind actually profit. I'm certain many of them didn't make it... they gave up or cashed out too early. And at this point, even if bitcoin mining was CPU-based, there is (and would be) so much hashing power dedicated to it, the idea of the average person making any significant amount of bitcoin in exchange for the time and electricity devoted to it is a joke.

RealCoin doesn't seem to have a way around that. Even if it's initially successful, and 100 people join in and start mining, and actually make a few bucks a week mining, after two weeks the difficulty will adjust so high due to everyone wanting to do it that profits crash. So you get two weeks of the average Joe getting coins then... everyone gets a pitiful fraction, but the early adopters still hold the king's ransom.

Mining only generates the coins, and serves to distribute the initial batch. It can never be a long-term plan for adequate distribution on it's own.

There won't ever be a system where we all produce profit at the push of button, immediately and forever. It's just not possible. (I'd love to be proven wrong, but I won't hold my breath.)
796  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world! on: January 17, 2012, 11:33:48 PM
How r u going to protect ur *coin against attacks of guys like Luke Jr.? Read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56675.0 to know what could happen.

You can only mine using the official client on your CPU. The exact mechanism how this is done is kept secret for the time being and is pretty difficult to reverse engineer. This is only a temporary measure while the network is still small.

Wait a minute. The expectation is that we will all run this code on our computers, without knowledge of exactly what's going on under the hood, and without the ability to look at the source?

No offense, but, after having gotten used to the transparency bitcoin offers... screw that.
797  Economy / Economics / Re: Understanding Bitcoins Granularity on: January 17, 2012, 05:05:14 PM
"There aren't enough bitcoins to support a world economy" is a common complaint you hear from newbies. How does increasing the granularity of a money supply, or just the perception of it (by moving the decimal) affect the value of a currency? It seems like this would have an inflationary affect to me. Is there some maths to help people understand this?

From the wikipedia page:
Quote
By 2013 half of the total supply will be generated, and by 2017, 3/4 will be generated. To ensure sufficient granularity of the money supply, clients can divide bitcoin's down to eight decimal places (a total of 2.1 × 1015 or 2.1 quadrillion units).

The high granularity just ensures that bitcoins can continue being used as money despite a very high exchange rate. It's not moving the decimal; there is no increase in the number of base units, so there is no inflationary effect. Bitcoin just has a design that allows very precise measurements of value.

This high granularity can only increase the value of the currency, especially since we know it can be used for small values far into the future. A digital coin with several decimals of division is more usable than one with few.


Also ideas like found in this thread (receiving your change in bitcoin rather than USD):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=59919.0

would seem to have the effect of decreasing the perceived granularity of USDs. In other words, if the US got rid of coins and small bills what kind of pressure would this place on the value of USDs?

Good question. There would be a slight bit of pressure to decrease the value of USD since they'd become less useful overnight. But the overall effect might be quite different.
798  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world! on: January 17, 2012, 04:23:55 PM
It seems like I won't be able to get onboard with this one. Between the pre-mining and the level of centralization, there are too many angles I don't agree with, and not enough added benefit to counter it.

Good luck to you though; here's hoping you don't get Luked.
799  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: BitcoinSpinner on: January 17, 2012, 03:57:31 PM
Already mentioned this in PM, but Ill post it here too.
Even in the latest version, I have no buttons to copy QR codes:



Its the same for backup wallet QR code, but obviously I prefer giving this example Smiley

More over, Bitcoinspinner seems unable to start up while on 2/3G. It will either crash or constantly timeout (application not responding, press wait/cancel/report).
On wifi it seems to work fine.

Im using an LG P500 with Android 2.3.3

IIRC, tapping the QR code copies the actual address to the clipboard. Not very intuitive, but should work for you.
800  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Additional subsidy for P2Pool users: 1-3btc/day on: January 17, 2012, 03:52:13 PM
Taking total output and subtracting the change: 7.6095 - 5.60998331 = 1.99951669, which is 2 coins. I'm not entirely sure why it results in such a weird number, it's clearly had the 0.0005 min fee subtracted from it and that yielded some weird rounding problem. BitcoinD uses floats in its API (not a good choice), which is probably the reason.

That seems like asking for trouble. Ah well, thanks for distributing it though.
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