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8861  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 27, 2013, 12:59:13 AM
Just read the god damn first post or watch the videos. It's all explained thoroughly.

Quote
If 200 people each put in $10,000 (or equivalent in BTC) the property would be ours (I think this could be accomplished in 1 year). And at that point we could start using the land to farm and produce things and anyone who could afford a house or an Earthship could start building, while anyone else can rent their land out to earn money, or sell it (we will all come together and vote on what the land can and cannot be used for during this time) and once we have some communal money we can help people build Earthships and start working on Solar power and getting a super solid internet connection. Then we could start building FPGAs and ASICs, while we farm and produce what we can.

Step 1: 200 people each put in $10,000 to buy the $2 million property.
Step 2: Anyone can rent their land to earn money or sell it.
Step 3: ? ? ?
Step 4: We have some communal money for Earthships, solar power, super solid internet connection, FPGAs and ASICs.
8862  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 27, 2013, 12:53:44 AM

Did someone tell you that you don't owe taxes if you use bitcoin instead of $$$?

Yeah, as long as you don't exchange it into fiat at any time it is impossible for them to tax it. It's a fluctuating digital property, not a real "currency". It has just become a currency, like seashells were at one point.

When you exchange your bitcoins for something of value you have to pay capital gains taxes on the gain in value from when you first obtained the bitcoins to the time of purchase.
8863  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 27, 2013, 12:51:05 AM
Yes there are communal town funds, just like ANY town. We just don't get them through taxes.

Would I be required to contribute toward the communcal town funds?

Nope.

So how do you get communal town funds?
8864  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 27, 2013, 12:48:37 AM
Yes there are communal town funds, just like ANY town. We just don't get them through taxes.

Would I be required to contribute toward the communcal town funds?
8865  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 27, 2013, 12:42:21 AM
half of that stuff is from a philosophical piece,

I think we all understand your philosophy by now.

Enjoy your commune.

Lol, commune?

Quote
I've been studying commune living since I was 14, and if you MAKE people work, no one comes. Now, if you make a rule "You have to work if you want a share of communal food" that is completely acceptable.

Quote
we can start a political party based on the towns philosophy

Quote
But once we got enough communal town funds we could work on that.

Sounds like a commune to me. Your words, not mine.

You should check out Vermont, there is a very big commune/hippy mindset up there. Plus they are right next to New Hampshire where Bitcoin is thriving in the live free or die state.

Nope. I said this was NOT a commune, because when people have to work, no one comes.  So this is not a commune, but will allow for communal work and living, for people that can't afford any other way of sustaining life.

I can't believe you didn't even read the thing you quoted. You guys suck SO much at reading.

So, no communal town funds?

Your quote just says that in your commune people have to work if they want the commune food. Will the "communal work and living, for people that can't afford any other way of sustaining life" be part of the town constitution that you write?
8866  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 27, 2013, 12:30:32 AM
half of that stuff is from a philosophical piece,

I think we all understand your philosophy by now.

Enjoy your commune.

Lol, commune?

Quote
I've been studying commune living since I was 14, and if you MAKE people work, no one comes. Now, if you make a rule "You have to work if you want a share of communal food" that is completely acceptable.

Quote
we can start a political party based on the towns philosophy

Quote
But once we got enough communal town funds we could work on that.

Sounds like a commune to me. Your words, not mine.

You should check out Vermont, there is a very big commune/hippy mindset up there. Plus they are right next to New Hampshire where Bitcoin is thriving in the live free or die state.
8867  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 27, 2013, 12:10:26 AM
half of that stuff is from a philosophical piece,

I think we all understand your philosophy by now.

Enjoy your commune.
8868  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 26, 2013, 11:50:50 PM
You are completely misunderstanding the goal. We aren't trying to be outlaws, we are simply trying to live freely.

You say "we" are trying to live freely yet you are already setting up plenty of rules and are sounding a bit dictatorish.

Quote
We will be writing a town constitution

Quote
we will be allowing people to sell or rent out their plots

Quote
we will be voting on what the land can be used/sold for

Quote
And the person will go to jail, or whatever is decided as punishment

Quote
a town where no one pays taxes

Quote
the prison is paid YOUR taxes based on how many beds it fills

Quote
we could even try to use town funds to buy a private island

Quote
One of those places should start getting government funding, and start housing families & Veterans.

Quote
The libraries should have public printing machines to promote free speech.

Quote
There should also be a publishing program

Quote
We need to have better welfare for regular citizens and veterans

Quote
The government needs to provide for those people

Quote
we could get a good educational program going and maybe even start our own university

Quote
We would eventually get a bus, then start a fleet

Quote
But once we got enough communal town funds we could work on that.

Quote
The police, health, fire and other government departments should also utilize these programs to earn extra income by creating "cops" like programs, which will also keep them honest since they have viewers.

Quote
we need to go to each church and offer them contracts to not be churches any more

Quote
we find churches that need funding, and pay them to be "community centers"

Quote
opening a non-denominational church in town

Quote
church employees can get a government salary

Quote
There needs to be people that come to every party and bring free food or at least drinks/alcohol

Quote
You need to gather for a reason, not just because it's the weekend or you want to party

Quote
all a community has to work towards is developing shops, housing and eventually public buildings

Quote
I even believe that animals should be liberated and humans should be taught to communicate through body language with animals

Quote
The only way a plant can talk is with its chemicals (ex Poison: Don't touch/eat me) Learn to communicate on a level deeper than speech.

Quote
Everyone would have a machine that they repaired, or checked on.

Quote
you pay for the electricity, you mine the coins, but you give some shit away for free

Quote
Candy Contest, have people make home made candy and have a contest. And it could fit in well with Halloween in the square.

Quote
Classrooms should utilize programs like AdSense and Bitcoin mining. Parents and kids should have to sign a waiver saying that students CAN use their cell phones, cameras and other devices in the classrooms of teachers that deem it acceptable.

Quote
I am working on plenty of Charitable projects

Quote
New Mexico has awesome laws

Quote
we can start a political party based on the towns philosophy

Quote
You have to work if you want a share of communal food

Quote
Drug dealers would be arrested.

Quote
I plan on hiding nothing and cooperating whenever asked.

Quote
we will not have ongoing outside programs inside our town

Quote
We will just have to defend the guy in court

Quote
I would be the one that got tax forms and everything I already plan on that

Quote
we would work out getting everyone their territory afterwards
8869  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 26, 2013, 10:36:16 PM
And there will be no need for taxes, because of the things the government would provide (fuel, food, etc). That would be completely up to the people majority.

The majority can be dangerous to those who do not agree when police can use force against the minority.


FYI, I have gone down this road before. I helped to get Grafton, NH chosen for the Free Town and put up $10k toward a piece of land much the same way you are proposing. It is not as easy as it seems.
8870  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 26, 2013, 10:25:38 PM
Sounds like you are creating a town like any other town but a small difference being that they accept bitcoins among the 200 people.

Why not just move to Berlin?

Or wait a year when you can use your bitcoin debit card anywhere.


You went from having a government that is only a service to police that will throw people in jail if they do not do things the majority agree with.

You may want to move this thread to a blog on your computer that you read yourself.

Or better yet:
http://www.simcity.com/
8871  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: So.... How long until the government says that terrorists use bitcoins. on: May 26, 2013, 09:40:18 PM
They already use the terrorism scare to justify their regulations.
8872  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 26, 2013, 09:10:05 PM
This is what you should expect when you first get to New Mexico with a large group of outsiders:

http://premium1.fosters.com/2004/news/june2004/june_20_04/sports/ap_nh0620a.asp

Quote
Grafton townspeople oppose Free Town Project
By BEVERLEY WANG

Associated Press Writer

GRAFTON, N.H. (AP) — About 200 Grafton residents packed a town meeting Saturday, demanding to know what libertarians in the Free Town Project are planning for their quiet New Hampshire town.

"Why are you moving here? Why?" shouted several people.

The Free Town Project wants to plant 200 libertarian settlers in Grafton, population 1,200.

The weekend meeting drew a record turnout, forcing organizers to move from the town hall to the fire station. Grafton Focus, a community group, called the meeting to let Free Town Project members answer residents’ questions.

Some protested the Free Town project by parking a hearse outside the town hall with a sign that read "RIP Free State Project, Free Town Project."

For three hours, Grafton residents peppered Free State and Free Town representatives with questions about school funding, zoning and taxes.

But most of all, they asked why Free Towners want to move to Grafton en-masse instead of individually.

One Free Towner, Bob Hull, has purchased 237 acres of land in Grafton, which he intends to subdivide and make available to people coming from other states.

"Some of the opposition’s been painting a lot of nasty pictures of compounds and cults and really offensive characterizations like that," said Free Towner Mike Lorrey, who is also a Free Stater. "People just want to live in a neighborhood with people they can be neighbors with."

But some Grafton residents weren’t ready yet to welcome them with open arms.

"What we’re not really hearing from you is what you are all about," said Nancy Warren to cheers and applause.

The Free Town Project is a splinter group of the Free State Project, which is trying to lure 20,000 libertarians to New Hampshire by 2006. Free Staters insist their group has nothing to do with Free Towners, although their memberships overlap.

Many townspeople said they left the meeting with their questions unanswered.

"I don’t think that there’s a lot of thought given into the impact on the town," said Sue Jukosky, a 26-year Grafton resident.

Residents were upset by a Web site maintained by Larry Pendarvis, a Florida libertarian, which promises to pull Grafton from the school district and suspend the planning board, among other things.

The Web site reads: "We also intend to ensure that the Town Police are never allowed to waste valuable town resources ... to oppress our residents by the investigation or enforcement of violations of Compulsory Schooling Laws, Drug Laws, Prostitution Laws, Obscenity Laws, or other Victimless Crime Laws."

Other Free Towners and Free Staters have tried to distance themselves from Pendarvis, also known as Zack Bass, an Internet consultant who runs a Filipina mail-order bride business.

"He’s not the kind of person that represents the Free State Project," said Amanda Phillips, president of the Free State Project.

"We have 6,000 people who are great responsible people who want to be good neighbors and it’s unfortunate we’re being judged by one person," said Phillips.

Free Staters last year chose New Hampshire as its staging ground, attracted to by the state’s "Live Free or Die" slogan and independent outlook. Loosely aligned by a desire for a society with smaller government and fewer laws, Free Staters advocate the legalization of "victimless crimes" such as prostitution and personal drug use.

They also support home schooling, lowering property taxes and protecting Second Amendment rights.

I also recall that during that meeting local townpeople were going out to the car lot to check license plates to see what states these outsiders were coming from so that they could raise more opposition to these outsiders coming to their town trying to change things.

And most recently:
Those opposing the Free Stater takeover appear to be winning. On town meeting day, Grafton voters rejected drastic budget cuts and a tax cap proposal. They approved warrant articles authorizing additional spending to buy a new police vehicle and tow truck, pave roads and make improvements to the town’s fire and ambulance building.
http://miscellanyblue.com/post/47135072156


Do not underestimate local people who have been there their whole lives fighting outsiders coming in trying to change things. Even if you think it is for their own benefit. Some people like lots of government.
8873  Economy / Economics / If you are being paid interest on your money, why would you spend it? on: May 26, 2013, 12:59:54 AM
If your current money is in a bank gaining interest, why would you ever spend your money? Is this a flaw in fiat? Everyone is hoarding their money to get interest on their money so nobody is spending their money. Should we penalize money that has been sitting in the bank too long?

If nobody spends their money fiat will become useless. What are some ways we can get people to spend fiat instead of hoarding it for the interest?
8874  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: May 26, 2013, 12:13:01 AM
In reality people in the USA support socialism. They just do not know that that is the word for what they like (and continue to vote for).
8875  Economy / Speculation / Re: Alright, be totally honest: who saw this one coming? on: May 25, 2013, 10:51:07 PM
I predicted $266 by the weekend. So my prediction was only half right.

$532 by next weekend.
8876  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 25, 2013, 10:11:11 PM
Wow...for no government you sure do have a long laundry list of things you want the community to do.

Maybe it is better for you to start it outside of New Hampshire.

The whole key to successes of the Free State (they have a long way to go) is the idea of having libertarians spread around the country trying to have any political influence has time and time again failed. By focussing on one state they are able to go from being spread out to having more power coming together in one place.

There have been countless efforts at free towns, free counties, etc...all failed. It is usually started by someone who wants other liberty thinkers to come to their town because they need help fighting off all of the statists. That is the case in all parts of the country. Your situation is not unique.

New Mexico is nice and all but they are fairly statist themselves. Gary Johnson made some big improvements there but their Democrat governor worked on undoing most of his accomplishments. Even in a free town, you would have to put up with state laws and federal laws. At least in New Hampshire there is already an effort to hold back the growing force of the state laws. And nullify as many federal laws as possible (national ID card, seatbelt laws, etc.).

If large tracts of cheap land is what you are after, a group tried to create a free town in west Texas after the 2008 election. http://paulville.org/  They purchased the land and I believe set up septic and electric lines. There was a free county project that was tried in Colorado and the attempt to buy the Belle Isle island from Detroit http://www.commonwealthofbelleisle.com/

8877  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 25, 2013, 09:31:27 PM
There has been a lot of work done in New Hampshire with the Free State Project. They are very Bitcoin friendly up there. Trying to choose a different state would be pointless. They even have people in the state government fighting for liberty. Free Keene is a group of very active people in Keene. The Free Town Project chose Grafton as a place to move if you wanted to be in a town of liberty lovers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafton,_New_Hampshire
8878  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Doughnut Comparison on: May 25, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
The telephone industry was a government created monopoly for 50 years, an agreement between the US government and AT&T and the local Bell phone companies.

In 1984 they loosened things up a bit and then in the mid 90s they deregulated it.

Look at how much the phone technology changed between 1952 and 1984. Then look at the mild advances between the mid 80s and 90s, then look at the changes between the mid 90s and today.

Those who would have telephones still regulated would say that it is easier to keep all of the phone systems compatible with just one system. There were literally people warning about the need to have one phone line in your home for every phone company if the monopoly was lifted. They would warn about how many businesses rely on their telephones and if this "great experiment" were to fail that all of those businesses would be affected and the economy could potentially be devastated. And, of course, if one phone company was not around and required to offer service to the poorest people then only rich people would be able to afford phones and the poor would have their phones turned off, the phone companies would only serve the wealthy communities.
8879  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Doughnut Comparison on: May 25, 2013, 09:17:15 PM
So you are basically putting the idea into statists minds that they need to regulate doughnuts.

For years I have been reveling in the fact that they are unregulated, enjoying all varieties of tasty goodness. Now some pencil pushing beaurocrat is going to start regulating the size, shape, price and taste of doughnuts.

Thanks a lot.
8880  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Let's Start a town on: May 25, 2013, 09:10:18 PM
This is all anyone needs to read before going on with this thread.

Quote
We will be writing a town constitution

Quote
we will be allowing people to sell or rent out their plots

Quote
we will be voting on what the land can be used/sold for

Quote
Anyone with no project plans will be lumped together to make a giant plot to rent out for air balloon landings

Quote
Housing won't have any restrictions except for height

Quote
And the person will go to jail, or whatever is decided as punishment

Quote
a town where no one pays taxes

Quote
the prison is paid YOUR taxes based on how many beds it fills

Quote
we could even try to use town funds to buy a private island

Quote
One of those places should start getting government funding, and start housing families & Veterans.

Quote
The libraries should have public printing machines to promote free speech.

Quote
There should also be a publishing program

Quote
We need to have better welfare for regular citizens and veterans

Quote
The government needs to provide for those people

Quote
Computers...everyone should have one no matter how poor. TVs too.

Quote
You only get a Earthship if you want a FREE house

Quote
we will eventually build a radio studio in town

Quote
Exercise programs in the town square every morning.

Quote
we could get a good educational program going and maybe even start our own university

Quote
We would eventually get a bus, then start a fleet

Quote
But once we got enough communal town funds we could work on that.

Quote
We actually hope to make a local restaurant and turn it into a national franchise

Quote
we would need a state of the art medical facility

Quote
The police, health, fire and other government departments should also utilize these programs to earn extra income by creating "cops" like programs, which will also keep them honest since they have viewers.

Quote
We also hope to open a hatchery, and make a lake if we don't start with one.

Quote
we need to go to each church and offer them contracts to not be churches any more

Quote
we find churches that need funding, and pay them to be "community centers"

Quote
opening a non-denominational church in town

Quote
This will be the local religion

Quote
church employees can get a government salary

Quote
We will have plenty of local holidays over time

Quote
There needs to be people that come to every party and bring free food or at least drinks/alcohol

Quote
You need to gather for a reason, not just because it's the weekend or you want to party

Quote
all a community has to work towards is developing shops, housing and eventually public buildings

Quote
I even believe that animals should be liberated and humans should be taught to communicate through body language with animals

Quote
The only way a plant can talk is with its chemicals (ex Poison: Don't touch/eat me) Learn to communicate on a level deeper than speech.

Quote
Everyone would have a machine that they repaired, or checked on.

Quote
you pay for the electricity, you mine the coins, but you give some shit away for free

Quote
Candy Contest, have people make home made candy and have a contest. And it could fit in well with Halloween in the square.

Quote
Classrooms should utilize programs like AdSense and Bitcoin mining. Parents and kids should have to sign a waiver saying that students CAN use their cell phones, cameras and other devices in the classrooms of teachers that deem it acceptable.

Quote
I am working on plenty of Charitable projects

Quote
New Mexico has awesome laws

Quote
Drug dealers would be arrested.

Quote
Manufacturing & Selling cocaine isn't a victimless crime. And neither is prostitution.

Quote
it's illegal to manufacture guns

Quote
I plan on hiding nothing and cooperating (with police) whenever asked.

Quote
We will just have to defend the guy in court

Quote
we can start a political party based on the towns philosophy

Quote
You have to work if you want a share of communal food

Quote
we will not have ongoing outside programs inside our town

Quote
It would be child friendly, we even allow children to vote if they want.

Quote
Education will be non traditional...They will still have the traditional subjects, but they won't be taught like lectures so much.

Quote
We will have a program for children and adults that will work towards creating all kinds of community projects

Quote
We will make dirt bikes legal.

Quote
I would be the one that got tax forms and everything I already plan on that
(for the $2 million land purchase)

Quote
we would work out getting everyone their territory afterwards

Quote
I have plans for a space program. And the creation of a non-territorial nation.


tl;dr
Quote
I've been in court for weed my whole life, but now I have a medical card for it.
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