Yes if they hold the public key

No because not everyone becomes a hub and keeps lots of channels open because it costs
$30 in Tx fees to close them and get the balance committed to the BC

lets draw this out and Bob sends Alice $1.00

Bob---->You---->Hub1<><><><>Hub2<------Alice

You become a relay node that lets Bob share your major hub because you use Bitcoin
five times a day, always online and share the channel.

Hub1 settling up with Hub2 cost him money (in debt to hub2) so he wants you to chip in with the bill
and takes fees from you for the service but Hub1/2 settling does not mean that Bob is forced to settle
up with Hub1 or you or even Bob

Question
1. Hub1 and you fall out, fees to high but hub1 owes you $500 so explain settlement of the public and private ledgers
2. Bob owes you $1 but the channel is no use because you have no out going channels so what happens to Bob



Yeah, maybe you should take your issue up with this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFfBRzh9HmU
because i think people will see that my comment was totally right

Agree we don't need mining and CPU-Wars but if your not going to make any effort in
saying whats new about this ICO number 15,145 then I am not going to waste my time
looking

so if we P2P channel so I buy a car from you placed auto advert then I just keep it open ?


or unless the other side closes the channel which hub/banks will do when they need paying so that
they too can meet running costs of closing channels with other hubs/banks. Settlement needs real BTC
that are on the BC and fake copy will not do.


The miners will host the big hubs and we had this story already about fees that were more or less zero
two years ago.

Nodes are just relays and my argument concerns LN hubs and inter bank settlement and fees on top of BTC Tx fees  
[/quote]


I can always tell when I am winning and the other side resorts to insults but you did
not answer my points and want to talk around them so please let me know what
specific point you would like to disagree on and also note that I am not against
Segwit which kinds of brings file compression to the blocks using "Extended blocks" to
store data in BC because short term it is a good fix

People forget that Bitcoin came to fame because of the block-chain and LN takes everything "Off block"
until you settle up with various hubs that may or may not have good channels to other hubs/banks

Sorry but they are trying to have their cake and eat it

Block-Matrix is whats needed, not hub/banks so the scaling that's going on is at the wrong level and
miners will be queuing up to host major hubs and we know what they can do with fees already so yes
they might allow you to keep a channel open to them for a month but what account charges will we
be getting from them for this service.

Outside this church that i find myself in other people are having the debate
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7njeph/the_lightning_network_is_a_scam_it_has_nothing_to/
125 comments and the jest of the answers basically acknowledge that it can is more economical if
you don't use the car and take the bus which is basically whats going on with Lightning 

Yes and what happens when you close the channel after Alice sends Bob $2 does it result in

1. Next to no fees
2. Bob having to pay $30 to miners as his Tx hits the block
3. Both Bob and Alice having to pay the Bitcoin miners $30 each


Wallets and Hubs are not the same thing at all and not only have I tried to explain this many times myself here
but others are saying just the same as me outside the church


And it went on to say "Virtual free transaction fees" so maybe "you're resistant to learning" when it comes
to hubs keeping balance, semi centralized and they charge fees just like banks do

ShapeShift runs a API and you can get a price indication from them but the whole thing when it comes
to fees in Bitcoins looks like witchcraft to me

Fees are now a inverse indication of the price with adjustments for market moods and
being forced to pay $25 just to store 250 bytes of data is a total joke for any digital
currency that had a white paper that said "Virtually free transactions fees"

See https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3m

No way will I be paying on average $30 per transaction and nor will anyone new
to Bitcoin who's do their homework first and Bitcoin has given other alt-coins
a dirty name by doing this.

Yes that's my killer because I run Windows spyware version 10 and is too old to
move over and learn Linux and most the time I can make apps that sing and dance
on windows without any trouble at all.

in fact i am the best "string butcher" in the world

this is true and most of what I have seen with Bitcoin core sure does look over complicated and has lead
to lots of programs having to use REST API's on-line which is not really the way to go.

I will get to were I want to go and do it in a way that I want to do it

Would you like to send me your email address so that I can forward on to you the messages that I get when my posts here are deleted and
then lets talk about "conspiracy theorist"

Yes banks not same as Bitcoin if we are talking about Ripple and VISA, they work fast and don't charge such high fees
and SWIFT like Bitcoin is living in the days of the past.


Do you deny these hub things take transactions of the block-chain that we were told was the best thing since sliced bread
Do you deny these hub things charge fees and keep a private ledger 
Do you deny these hub things use a degree of centralization

disagree all you like but I will call these "Hub things" banks because they are

IBM Personal computers did not get banned by the world and they once had the market to themselves and the same goes
for the internet and AOL and if Bitcoin is "globally accepted" then so is another five alt-coins and two are gaining ground
on Bitcoin.

The longer my granddad lived the more convinced he was that he would would never see death, he was right you know !

oh dear, voting is at 50/50 just now on this thread so please ignore me as I slowly move towards the exit doors 

Yeah and it's the same with Crypto-Kitties too, only 21 million cats to share out to a population
of 7.5bn and already the pink and black spot ones have already gone.

being the optimistic person I am, well I am hoping they bring out bunny rabbits too so i can
follow one down the rabbit hole and meet Alice because she wanted to send Bob $5.00 and
said that she could only do it if she paid the king of heats a $25 ransom fee

  

The old must die to make room for the new and today we have the new birth of a child
by the name of Segwit2x and his tiny little fees would make any new mother happy

Stop loss on BTC at $10,000 is what I am doing and anyone that thinks this could never
happen best just get on with it.

"Is holding bitcoin Greedy?"

No not at all and we make regular donations to 20,000 miners who are playing CPU-Wars against each other
to keep the earth warm and people in jobs that are working for Intel and AMD plus on top of that the price
of our gambling chips are going down.

Young man, Get a job and start contributing

We can afford fees if we only had the 1,000 or less miners we need to keep the network running
but we cannot afford the 20,000 miners we currently have because we don't have that much cream
to go around and we need to cull the numbers down.

51% attack is clap trap and anyone that builds a financial system based on this principle should
call it a day and seek new employment and was the Bitcoin development team not to be filling it's
pockets then they just need to add this line of code the the core project if they didn't have the
brains to do it in the first place

public static money MaxFee = 1.50 // 20,000 miners processing only 7 transactions a second needed to end yesterday

That will fix $25 rip-off fees and stop the Bitcoin price from falling even more but if you think Lightning
is not just a network of banks that are calling hubs being added to Bitcoin then you best watch this video
to the end and note that the presenter is pro-bit coin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpfvhiqFw7A

Others are more to the point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXduhKbe-c

ETH is the better deal and it's price does not spike as much as BTC plus they offer a service to
other alt coins and that makes the money from gas

Ripple i think is the safe long term bet because they will ride out government regulations much
better than anyone else and no one can fork ripple can they now !

Segwit2x goes live today so I wonder how well that will do

Bitcoin is healthy eating you see because you can place an order if you can afford the crazy $25 transaction fees
to the miners and then wait and wait for the transaction to clear.

Has anyone staved to death yet waiting for a transaction to complete 

Anyone that writes a financial system and needs to protect against a 51% attack needs to find another job as do any
programmers that need CPU-wars between miners to keep Intel and AMD rich along with big oil and the icing on the
cake is Bitcoin will not scale and they knew this from day one, like nine years ago.

80% of the Bitcoin code is about mining, the miners and developers are one and the same and no one works for free
but now they have got greedy and are offering us bread today and jam tomorrow but it's too little, too late IMHO

Nothing at all "Block-Chain" about LN and the main sales pitch is on about "Off-Chain" which seem like back peddling
from what they have been trying to promote for the past nine years and if you look closer then it uses banks that host
private ledgers and charges fees but the development teams like to call them hubs instead.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpfvhiqFw7A

Come on 20,000 full nodes just to process seven transactions a second when VISA can process 25,000 per second
and the network has 1000 X less processing power than the Bitcoin network and people fall for this clap trap.

I am aware my posts are being watched but they dare not drop by and have it out with me so do they
fear developers that are "Not on the team" and how long will it be before the masses see that huge
transactions fees is the real reason for $6,000 being knocked off the price of BTC
 

I downloaded the B2X wallet to test it out the other day and the guy working on "Chat" was helpful
but the wallet seemed to get to 98.3% of loading the block headers and seem to stop
at that point so I hope we don't get any transactions of the wrong type being sent to the
Bitcoin miners today.

Whats very strange is that I looked around the B2X wallet for the private key and could not find one
anywhere and you know the saying "If you don't hold it, you don't own it"

The windows version of this wallet seems to be a full node relay or something because it tries to download 200gb of
the block-chain (I suspect from Bitcoin nodes) and will soon run your C-Drive out of disk space which would be
alright with me if they warned me first and it keeps transactions costs down.

Well now you all know as much as I know !

Getting direct access to blk0001.dat is all very easy until you try doing from windows without running
a full node and doing RPC that is real slow from what I am picking up.

I think the file format needed is LevelDB but i cannot even get a LeveDB programs in C++ to compile in Visual Studio
that I can then use from C# or even find a windows based copy of LevelDB.dll to Pin.Invoke from C#

Hopefully i can hit the ground running once I can read the block .dat files but for now i am stuck in the mud
and much of the code hanging around the internet that works in windows is well out of date anyway.

Just reading Peers.dat for now would be nice 

I can get all the data I need from the exchanges and write bots or Chrome extensions to
click buttons on various exchanges but apart from looking for obvious "Hammers" I would not
have a clue in HFT to know if i should be hitting the red or the green buttons.

Watched a few Youtube vids on day trading and some of them sound good but then you hear
that the are playing all day long and only making $5.00 in wages for the days work.

written some software before for a shares company (it went bust  during Dot.Con bust) but I don't get it
apart from the saying "Let the friend be your friend" so maybe I need to team up with someone
who does "Gets it"