Third, why does AMC need VMC to re-sell its chips in bulk? Why can't AMC handle that itself? So, you bulk-sell chips to VMC, VMC sells them on, AMC gets 70% of the profits, VMC 30%? Why do it like that? Why not just have AMC/VMC together, AMC sells the chips and it receives 100% of the profits from these sales?
Let me just ask you a simple question. How would AMC sells chips itself? Explain to me how that would be done? |
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Posted on the 10th June 2013: Sure, I would be happy to meet with you at our NEW manufacturing site, which is 450 H S Union, Springfield Missouri, 65802. Just let me know when you are going to be here. Thanks for pointing out the typo on our site, I will get that fixed. However, you get a trademark by using it. It only needs to be registered if you are going to sue someone. I see you did not mention axs.net which I own and has been registered since 1997 along with name-servers.net. Our prototype boards are being spun up as we speak, should be here within a week, Avalon sample chips have been shipped to us for these boards. Anything else?
Sorry Vbs I don't know what you are getting at. Does this answer it? - We have known Ken owned axs for some time - he declared his 'previous business experience' on his run down but it's the home address I uncovered last night that I don't think has been on here before. I don't know if my address has been on here before, but I posted my complete address, including my cell phone number with the Avalon Orders on Bitfunder back in March. However, a scammers got my order number and tried to sell my Avalon's on eBay, so I had to redact the address. I was trying to be as transparent as I could back in March. |
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This is the satellite image of the address that Ken used for VMC's "Principal place of business" as stated in the NDA picture he posted today:
Ok? I found it kind of weird that its just his house, seeing as how he says theres an office somewhere. The NDA was signed over a month ago on May 17th. We just rented the office/manufacturing site on June 5, 2013. You have to understand that we are moving forward with our plan and that things are changing on a daily basis. |
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How do we overcome the issue that whoever visits Ken and reports back will be accused of being in cahoots?
How about Soylent and babefoot both go at the same time? They could hook up, drive to Ken's and ask our questions/take a few snaps. I mean this scam conspiracy is going to have to be pretty sophisticated, along the lines of the best out takes from the last Mission Impossible movie, for people to claim this is part of the con. I would be okay with this. Of course we would need to meet up at Springfield, seeing as I would be coming from Arkansas and he/she would be coming from OK. Yep, absolutely. Meet around the corner from Ken's office, then travel there together. I'll happily pay gas x 2. Edit: as long as babefoot is ok with this. I don't want anyone to feel they are being railroaded into something they are not comfortable with. Would love to meet up with both of you. I will buy lunch and then we can go over and look at our new manufacturing site. However, we are just getting started putting together the manufacturing line, so there is not really that much to see at this point. You would see that we do have a site rented, and that we are setting up the office, getting security in place. Also, we are starting to get in an inventory of cases and power supplies. Just let me know when you want to do this. Once you have more of a complete operation in place I would also very much appreciate a visit. I know I have been especially tough on the corporate structure, pricing and revenue goals but when the smoke settles if you would allow me I would be happy to swing by and say hi. Sure, that would be fine. |
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How do we overcome the issue that whoever visits Ken and reports back will be accused of being in cahoots?
How about Soylent and babefoot both go at the same time? They could hook up, drive to Ken's and ask our questions/take a few snaps. I mean this scam conspiracy is going to have to be pretty sophisticated, along the lines of the best out takes from the last Mission Impossible movie, for people to claim this is part of the con. I would be okay with this. Of course we would need to meet up at Springfield, seeing as I would be coming from Arkansas and he/she would be coming from OK. Yep, absolutely. Meet around the corner from Ken's office, then travel there together. I'll happily pay gas x 2. Edit: as long as babefoot is ok with this. I don't want anyone to feel they are being railroaded into something they are not comfortable with. Would love to meet up with both of you. I will buy lunch and then we can go over and look at our new manufacturing site. However, we are just getting started putting together the manufacturing line, so there is not really that much to see at this point. You would see that we do have a site rented, and that we are setting up the office, getting security in place. Also, we are starting to get in an inventory of cases and power supplies. Just let me know when you want to do this. |
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We have an addresses in Springfield, Missouri for VMC headquarters.
It's on a commercial industrial street surrounded by other general businesses. If there is anyone on this thread who could travel to this address and knock on the door, look for a VMC sign on the door (they need one for deliveries), ask around the neighboring business and watching comings and goings for the day then we could get an answer as to if this outfit is real or not.
I'm sure many of us here could donate some btc between us to pay travel costs to whoever is the closest. This is a large unit by the looks of it (though I can't yet locate it on googlemaps) so it must be where VMC are assembling their machines (if there are any).
Any takers? You shouldn't need back up (though it always helps) as this is a busy commercial unit street.
I live a few hours away in Oklahoma. I could visit on a weekend easily. I'm a new member to the forum though, so I don't want to waste my time if everyone will hate on me for having a low post count. Whatever is best. I'll pay for your gas if you are our best option. Thanks. I would be happy to meet with you, if you drive over. |
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Everyone has been asking the same questions over and over for the last several days, I dont know why but Ken decides to not answer any of the questions and even wants to have power to manipulate the thread
There was a point brought by DaT stating that if Ken did in fact have the money to purchase all required devices / R&D why is he raising more capital, there should not be a need to have walls of 5 million and 1.6 million if Ken already had all the money to purchase everything,
frankly unless you bought in at .0025 there isnt any reason to hold AMC shares til Ken can answer clearly everything directly and prove that he does in fact have the NDA with eAsic, to many questions and not enough answers
I already have the power, however I do not use it, because I believe in free speech. However some users of the thread were complaining about all the trash talk, so I decided to do a poll. Just doing the poll caused some users of the thread to delete some of their post and clean up the thread some. I have only removed two post in this thread due to explicit profanity being used. |
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We have an addresses in Springfield, Missouri for VMC headquarters.
It's on a commercial industrial street surrounded by other general businesses. If there is anyone on this thread who could travel to this address and knock on the door, look for a VMC sign on the door (they need one for deliveries), ask around the neighboring business and watching comings and goings for the day then we could get an answer as to if this outfit is real or not.
I'm sure many of us here could donate some btc between us to pay travel costs to whoever is the closest. This is a large unit by the looks of it (though I can't yet locate it on googlemaps) so it must be where VMC are assembling their machines (if there are any).
Any takers? You shouldn't need back up (though it always helps) as this is a busy commercial unit street.
Yes, this is a good idea, we don't have a sign yet, as we are still setting up. Just received an order of cases and power supplies last week. So we are getting there, just installed a security system also. |
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[AMC] Hardware discussion and F.A.Q.So, what do shares represent? Ownership?Shares do not represent ownership, they are "solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits", and used as a means to liquidation. 1 share of AMC on BitFunder represents 1/100,000,000th of 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses. AMC shares offer no voting rights. Shares of AMC on BitFunder do not represent real world shares of the company. The shares are solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits.
Should the Cooperative be sold or closed, the full amount of the purchase price, liquidated income, and any mining revenue not distributed will be evenly distributed to the 100,000,000 shares.
Wait a minute... I'm not "owning" a part of AMC, just a piece of the "profits"  Welcome to the bitcoin stock exchange game. Learn the risks, and stay, or get out. Please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245713.msg2616979#msg2616979So, shares represent a part of profits then. How are they distributed?Until at least May 2014, on the initial 40M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 20M can be sold to investors. In May 2014, or when 0.0005 is payed by share, whichever happens later, an extra 60M are created, for the final total of 100M. On these remaining 60M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 40M can be sold to investors, with a 40M being retained by AMC/Ken. 20,000,000 shares will be retained by AMC to maintain a growth and expansion fund.
As of the time of this writing, up to 40,000,000 will be released over time to the public on a varying time scale as capital is required to complete the project. Any remaining shares not included in the IPO are owned/maintained/controlled by AMC. These shares will be used at the issuers discretion for any uses deemed fit. These uses are not limited to, but may include employment.
So, I heard I am earning a lot from AMC right now, by bagging the dividends from all the unsold shares out of the 40M?Wrong. The contract specifies that all dividends from issued shares still on AMC's hands are retained by the growth and expansion fund (the contract was originally written using correct terminology, but BF considers all shares "issued"). Dividends paid on unissued shares after the early-adopter phase will be retained by AMC and added to AMC's growth and expansion fund above until the shares are issued.
The first time I get a piece of the pie will be after a year of work (May 2014), when the rest of the 60M are issued. At that time, more 20M can be sold to investors, and I retain the remaining 40M. I've read a lot of announcements, but have yet to see real documents. Can you please provide some?Engineering Firm quote for Avalon machines: http://axs.net/AMC/SB-Prototype-Quote.jpgeASIC NDA: http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0001.jpg and http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0002.jpgSo, how will the division between AMC and VMC be implemented, in respect to chip/machine sales?Roughy, AMC takes care of the chips, VMC takes care of the machines: - AMC develops the chip, pays the chip's NRE and sells the chip in bulk to customers (using VMC as intermediary). - VMC uses AMC's chip (or any other chips) and builds bitcoin miners, paying a royalty cost to AMC whenever its IP is used. Chip sales: AMC holds IP rights on the Fast-Hash-ONE chips, so AMC contracts with VMC the following services: (a) the representation services to negotiate chip production with eASIC and (b) the re-selling of AMC's chips in bulk. AMC also guarantees chip exclusivity to VMC, so that AMC won't negotiate a chip supply contract to any other bitcoin systems manufacturer. AMC gets 70% back from the profits on the sale of bulk chips, while VMC gets 30%. All of VMC's expenses, including representation, chip stock management and re-shipping expenses to final customers are taken from their 30% profit. System sales: AMC also allows VMC to buy chips directly from eASIC at the lowest cost, for the manufacturing of bitcoin mining systems. On every sale of these systems or parts of it that contain AMC chips or IP, AMC receives a 10% royalty fee from the total gross sales revenue. Example: if a customer purchases a system for ฿100, AMC receives ฿10, whatever the profit margins for VMC are.
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*** Business Experience:
Slaughter Vending and Amusement, Pegasus Business Systems, Advanced Learning Systems, Advanced Software
Solutions, Active Internet Communications - ISP Business axs(tm).net which produced over 2.5 Million
in revenue and over 10,000 customers in 49 states, Canada, and Puerto Rico with over 10 employees.
Turn-key Web Hosting Business running on Amazon.com, Bitcoin mining since 2009.
*** Software packages developed:
Internet Cruiser(tm) web browser, Virtual 3D Environments, Individual Profile System(tm) (IPS), Neural
Network, Anonymous Bitcoin Exchange software, Automobile Collision Repair System(tm) (ACRS)
*** Cloud Development:
Web Hosting Business: shopping-cart-now.com running on Amazon.com
*** Web Sites Developed With Graphics:
TahoeUltimateRentals.com, shopping-cart-now.com, votecliffyoung.com, and votecliffyoung.com plus many
more over the years.
Has anyone gone into any research looking at Ken's projects. Seeing if there's legitimacy here? Sorry, but i am not going through all the posts. Great question- Look up all the generic sounding companies under 'Business Experience' he has supposedly fronted/worked for/delivered mail to? and you will find nothing. It's like typing any three random business related words into google - you come up with a lot but nothing you can pin down. Apparently he worked on the software side of 'Neural Network' and 'Virtual 3D Environment' what? - it's like he's pulled these titles out of a comic book. Where is the evidence of any of these claims? The only two results I get is under websites and here we have two sites - 'votecliffyoung' which he may have registered and offered for sale??? And also 'TahoeUltimateRentals.com'. I'll fire them off an email and ask them if a 'Ken Slaughter' developed their site. What do we think they will say? My web developer developed those site and those site are running on top of my developed "Turn Key Web Hosting Business". |
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Ken has not addressed many of the issues discussed here for the last few days. I've asked questions in regards to the AMC/VMC structure, capping out the shares issues at a lower number, distribution of dividends from hardware/mining, issuing of new shares, and protection of shareholders investment by keeping funds within AMC (no side project funding for Ken's personal venture). Would like to see if Ken or anyone that has asked to Ken about these issues for clarification. These are just some of the issues at the top of the list for me. I am sure we all have more to add but let's get the ball rolling from here.
If think part of the problem is many people here have not done their due diligence and expect to be spoon fed information that is available elsewhere in the thread. I've studied this security and watched Ken's moves and I feel I have a good understanding of the value proposition. Basically, what I'm saying is I am comfortable with my significant investment and where we are. However, there are outstanding questions that have not been answered, or could due with further clarification. I like your idea i.e. let's get the ball rolling. Maybe we could compile a small number of questions for Ken over several posts, to be presented *one at time*, and maybe Ken can commit to feedback whenever his schedule allows. The real challenge will be keeping the spammers like Megamouth in check. So, I'm afraid that although I'd like to try this approach, I'm not confident it will work because it only takes one unethical poster to sabotage the plan. If we *can* get this approach to work, we should aim to build a FAQ which everyone can refer back to in future. If we *can't* get it to work, I'll live with it and wait for future news and dividend payments to validate my decision to invest. We are in the process of compiling a FAQ's which should be written on Monday and posted soon after that. It may need to be reviewed and rewritten before it is posted. I am going to post that in the reserved post that I have at the beginning of the thread. That way if anyone ask a question that is answered in the FAQ's we can point them to that message. |
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Yes, I understand some of the raised issues could have been better formulated in the original contract. My intention is not to rip off anyone, but to build value for AMC's shareholders. I am open to any thoughtful changes on how to proceed for making any necessary adjustments.
Okey, here is my suggestion: Give shareholders at least 40-50% of the possible overall profit for all the risk they take, not like ~8%. At the momeent shareholder are getting 50% of the profit. |
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Treasury: 0.12 BTC ? What is that? He pays dividends to unsold shares, so they go back to the company on top of the 'reinvestment shares'. I know, both concepts are ridiculous, and would never pass muster with an accountant. It's just another mechanism to bleed the shareholders. Seriously? Only that is enough to never list stuff like that. You are correct it ridiculous and you do not have to be accountant to understand this. Is it possible, he has no idea wtf treasury stock is and just used a fancy word?  Every share bought back by the Co becomes treasury stock - no divs, no voting. Period! Those share can be later canceled. When shares are bought back - number of outstanding shares must be reduced (btc-tc supports that) and there is also reduction of company assets (_cash_ used to buy the shares). This is usually done when Co shares are undervalued for what ever reason and it actually makes sense to buy them back. If Co has 1000 outstanding shares and 1000 coins Co buys back 100 shares for 100 coins, they are left with 900 shares outstanding and 900 coins as cash. Now, if that same Co makes 50 in profit and has 900 shares outstanding and 100 in treasury, 50 gets divided by 900 shares and NOT by 1000 (900+100) "reinvestment share"? I hope they mean the % of profits reinvested. Nothing wrong with that because the coin stays in the Co as an asset. I do not have enough LTC shares to be part of the official voting process. Regardless, we need to do everything to keep scams like this off the exchange(s). Now, this scam has happened. Guy has the coin and it's probably all transferred to his wallet. Only way to fix this mess is if he fixes the contract so shareholders do not get ripped off. Ken, are you willing to do that? Yes, I understand some of the raised issues could have been better formulated in the original contract. My intention is not to rip off anyone, but to build value for AMC's shareholders. I am open to any thoughtful changes on how to proceed for making any necessary adjustments. |
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I think this is a perfect example for why there should be more enforcement by the mods here on bitcointalk.
Why are the mods allowing this thread to be filled with such drivel for so long? It is not little to no discussion and instead just garbage 1 on 1 arguments that add nothing to the topic at hand. It got so bad, even another thread was made!
I have created a poll, to ask users of this thread whether I should delete post that are not discussing the merits of AMC. Please vote on this poll. |
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At 0.005 I would consider AMC a worthwhile investment IF AMC gets full ownership of VMC. These confused cross ownerships, un-emitted 60 million shares and the 'off the top' profit that Ken seems to make is nothing but a game of shadows obviously created to profit off share holders that are either too lazy, too stupid or too gullible to read the fine print.
Un-emitted 60 million shares that can be emitted without putting an ASK offer. That is some serious shit, yet no one seems to care. ~40 Million shares I own and I am not going to sell. 20 million shares that AMC owns which will be used to build the mining farm even bigger that it will be in 10 months of growth. |
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Insane speculation aside I still have some questions,
The question regarding VMC was not clearly answered mostly sidetracked with speak of AMC, is AMC the mining company and VMC the hardware selling?
from what Ken has said or if Ken can answer directly, the dividends are not being withheld or are they? from the phone call Lewicki posted I cant tell exactly if they are or are not Pre-NRE til the amount is paid,
Some things I can verify is that the NDA does exist with the CEO or COO Stanley Wong of EASIC and from previous experience with NDAs they usually are to protect details of contracts with significant value, I have no idea what the NDA states so im excited to see the actual scan,
at last traded price of .001 x the 40M shares the current value of the company is 3.8M, this is ambitious but more believable than the other numbers being thrown around considering the assets+projected revenue, although a company shouldnt be valued with theoretical numbers we are waiting for more information on unknowns like the EASIC chips and Avalon chips arrivals,
I am not buying on this news but I hope to hear better with more time, we can only hope Ken is actually doing what he says and hopefully there is a better future on the horizon,
Except it is 100 million shares total of course. Yes, but only after the next 10 months have expired, right now only 40,000,000 shares are receiving dividends. So, let's value the company at the current number of shares issued. |
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At 0.005 I would consider AMC a worthwhile investment IF AMC gets full ownership of VMC. These confused cross ownerships, un-emitted 60 million shares and the 'off the top' profit that Ken seems to make is nothing but a game of shadows obviously created to profit off share holders that are either too lazy, too stupid or too gullible to read the fine print.
That is not the case, I am building AMC into a world class bitcoin mining farm, which all long term investors will receive profit from. |
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Insane speculation aside I still have some questions,
The question regarding VMC was not clearly answered mostly sidetracked with speak of AMC, is AMC the mining company and VMC the hardware selling?
from what Ken has said or if Ken can answer directly, the dividends are not being withheld or are they? from the phone call Lewicki posted I cant tell exactly if they are or are not Pre-NRE til the amount is paid,
Some things I can verify is that the NDA does exist with the CEO or COO Stanley Wong of EASIC and from previous experience with NDAs they usually are to protect details of contracts with significant value, I have no idea what the NDA states so im excited to see the actual scan,
at last traded price of .001 x the 40M shares the current value of the company is 3.8M, this is ambitious but more believable than the other numbers being thrown around considering the assets+projected revenue, although a company shouldnt be valued with theoretical numbers we are waiting for more information on unknowns like the EASIC chips and Avalon chips arrivals,
I am not buying on this news but I hope to hear better with more time, we can only hope Ken is actually doing what he says and hopefully there is a better future on the horizon,
Except it is 100 million shares total of course. The dividends are going to be paid as required in the description. lewicki has updated his post to reflect this. |
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I do have to point out that nowhere have I said that we are not going to pay dividends to shareholders.
I do have to point out that kslaughter might be a hacked account or account of someone who does not want to be known as AMC head, like Tom.  I have been on this board as a lurker since 2009, I only registered in 2010 to make those post. I have a lot more to do than post, so that is why there were on two post in 2010. Also I was developing another product for about two years. I decided to look back into bitcoin in early 2012 and seen that the price was $6.50. I then started putting all my resources from a contract IT Job into GPU mining equipment. I then took most all of the bitcoins mined in 2012-2013 and purchased the 6 Avalon's. I then found bitfunder, put together an offer, seen that it took off, however had some problems with Avalon's quick announcement of their batch 3 sales and made some misstates in my offering because of the rush to get it together before the batch 3 sales. So as it turns out, I had to pay back all of the cash to the first investors which I did plus a small dividend as AMC made a small profit on G.ASICMINER-PT dividends and the sales of G.ASICMINER-PT shares. So, this is where the idea of VMC began, you could not count on other manufactures to deliver there products on time or to even continue producing their product. i.e. Avalon So VMC was created to provide AMC with a stable supply of bitcoin mining machines. So the offering was rewritten to cover all the complaints of the community in the first offering adding VMC as the manufacture to supply AMC with machines at manufacturers cost (Want to offer the machines to AMC free, but I could not figure out a way to do that). So this is the story of how we got to this point. I think the future is very bright for AMC, having it's own supply of machines, having it's own chip for those machines, and maybe it's own underground data-center which is unlike most other data-centers which require some time during the year for down time, this data-center does not require any down time for maintenance. |
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Just got off the phone with Ken.- Avalon prototype boards - They will be finished within 2 weeks. He is going to provide a scan of the documents proving that that work is under way.
- AMC's proprietary chip - He will provide a scan of the NDA, he is currently talking with eASIC, and it looks like he will be able to pay the NRE, and if not, then in installments
- Storage - Springfield Underground is currently for sale. He is looking into acquiring it to host all of AMC's mining needs when the need arises.
- Klondikes - Will be arriving within a month, 300 GH
- Avalon Chips - The engineering firm that he employed for the boards has the 60 sample chips from the 2 avalon chip bulk orders, pictures will be coming for those when he gets his hands on them within 2 weeks. There are 20,000 of them incoming. Avalon will start shipping the chips at the beginning of July. AMC has pre-orders a for a few of these, the rest will be built and mined by AMC
- Avalons purchased - Ken received the 3 remaining Avalons. Team AMC is currently hashing at 435.32 GH/s on https://www.btcguild.com//index.php?page=rankings§ion=teams
- Engineering - Ken wrote the code for the chip, which eASIC ran and found to be acceptable.
- Price - The shares at 0.0025 are going to remain there, since he values AMC above that price and thinks that it is a great value.
- When do I get my money? - 100% of the money raised for the NRE will be payed off first. Either through sales or mining.
- What is VMC? - VMC, Ken said was an afterthought. His main interest is in AMC(his baby). When he said that AMC gets first dibs on anything the VMC makes, he meant it. His plans for AMC is to buy as many mining machines AT COST from VMC and then leave the scraps for VMC to sell.
- The pricing of the machines are whack! - Whatever machines that are left over to buy will be priced competitively.
- What has AMC invested and why are there so many shares? - When a company looks for investment from say Angel Investors, they usually require 25-33% of the company's shares. Before AMC looked for money they had already invested in 6 avalons which are priced now at over $43,000 and a ROI much higher than that (data based on current auctions on bitcointalk, increase that value since AMC is already mining). So to say that 20 million shares are available for AMC after AMC had already invested a sizable amount of money into operations seems reasonable to me.
- When do I get my money? - 100% of the money raised for the NRE will be payed off first. Either through sales or mining.
- What happens after the NRE is paid off - After 100% of the NRE is paid off in the form of dividends, AMC will continue to get paid 100% of the mining dividends and 10% of sales from VMC. AMC will also activate the remaining 60,000,000 shares which represents the AMC's profits, which is perfectly reasonable since they havnt received a cent up until this point.
Ken's workload is very high at the moment - among which people have expressed issues with the shopping cart on the website and needs to fix it), but he said that within the next day or so he will be posting receipts/documents that show that things are under way. This is so full of fail. So now Ken is halting dividends until he collects enough for his $1M gift to himself? $43 000 value for an Avalon? I have 10, how many would Ken like to buy at $43 000 each? Nice to hear from you again Entropy-uc, since you are a competitor as you say above with the 10 Avalon's you own, we must be doing something right to make you worry so much. I do have to point out that nowhere have I said that we are not going to pay dividends to shareholders. That is the nice thing about VMC is we are going to be building our own machines for AMC, 40 for August 31, 2013 and then ~22 for September. |
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