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1  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Incorporating in Turks & Caicos Islands on: March 19, 2014, 10:15:06 PM
It depends on what sort of business you want to do. If it's something that will be illegal in the United States and you intend to have US customers, then that will be problematic wherever you incorporate.

If it's to incorporate in a tax haven, meh, go for it as long as you have an accountant versed in these matters help you out.
2  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: US person buys home abroad with bitcoin. What about taxes? on: November 26, 2013, 11:51:28 PM
Taxation for US citizens living abroad is tricky. You will have to declare capital gains and you MAY have to pay it, as well. Pay for an hour of a tax lawyer's time that specializes in income realized abroad.
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Hearing on BTC in senate NOW on: November 18, 2013, 08:31:35 PM
Yeah, this sort of sucks. Only three witnesses from government agencies, FinCEN, DOJ Criminal and Secret Service. They will OF COURSE have an "everything is criminal" mindset. Where are the FEC, SEC, CFTC, bitcoin industry witnesses?
4  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: What's next? Procedure for seized BTC funds from Silk Road on: October 28, 2013, 08:47:04 PM
But who would want to bid for them.  Any thoughts of privacy would be gone since the bidder would fully identify themselves to the FBI.  Only some sort of arbitrage but that means selling them right after buying them.

It's cute that you think you'll be able to buy/sell XBT in any substantial amount without disclosing huge amounts of information about yourself.
5  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: What's next? Procedure for seized BTC funds from Silk Road on: October 28, 2013, 08:45:15 PM
If the feds DO sell it (a big if), they won't go to an exchange. They'll sell it in an auction like every other asset they seize. We may know the price but since it's essentially a private sale, it won't impact the day-to-day prices of bitcoin; also, it may be months before anybody is able to figure out the price it was sold for.
6  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: is it legal to run a public bitcoin exchange that Americans can use? on: October 08, 2013, 11:58:30 PM
To run a proper Bitcoin exchange in the US, you need to register with the SEC as a broker/dealer. That lets you accept trading transactions for anything tradeable. A "broker", under US law, is "any person engaged in the business of effecting transactions in securities for the account of others." It includes "persons that operate or control electronic or other platforms to trade securities". There's some argument over whether Bitcoin is a "security", but if you're registered as a broker/dealer, that takes care of that problem. Every brokerage in the US, big or small, has been through this process.

This isn't just filling out a form. A broker-dealer may not begin business until:

    1. it has properly filed Form BD, and the SEC has granted its registration;
    2. it has become a member of an SRO;
    3. it has become a member of SIPC, the Securities Investor Protection Corporation;
    4. it complies with all applicable state requirements; and
    5. its "associated persons" have satisfied applicable qualification requirements.

These requirements are to prevent brokers from stealing customer's assets. First, there's form BD, which covers who's behind the business, who's really behind the business, and the criminal history of everyone involved.

Then there's becoming a member of a Self Regulatory Organization. This would be FINRA or NASDAQ. FINRA can and does fine its members for rules violations; $102 million in fines in 2012 alone, and 692 cases referred for criminal prosecution. (That's why brokers are so heavily regulated.)

Then there's becoming a member of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation. This is an insurance company. Each customer is insured for up to $500,000 if the broker goes bust or steals their money. (Something the Bitcoin world is all too familiar with.)  Brokers pay premiums to SIPC.

Then there are qualification requirements for the people involved. There are exams. The principals of the business have to pass at least the FINRA Series 24 (General Securities Principal) exam, which covers things like "Supervision of Brokerage Operations" and "Compliance and Financial Responsibility".  And FINRA Series 27 (Financial and Operations Principal), which covers "Customer Protection Rules" and "Net Capital Requirements". Probably some others, too. The standard exam for a "stockbroker" is FINRA Series 7, and if there are people involved who actually sell, they have to pass that exam. There are exams for lower-level people, such as FINRA Series 11 (Assistant Representative - Order Processing). That's right, there's an exam for the people who do phone support.

One way to do this is to buy an existing small broker/dealer. Here's a list of broker/dealers for sale. For $105,000 someone could buy an inactive broker/dealer registered in 19 states. That takes care of most of the registration problems. All the registration info will have to be updated, but that's easier than doing this from a cold start. The name of the company can be changed at this point if desired.

Then you hire some people who've already passed the tests. It's not hard to hire people who have passed these tests, since Wall Street has downsized somewhat in recent years. The principals have to study up and pass their tests, but it's mostly memorization and knowing the rules. They'll need a law firm, an accounting firm, and an auditor.

Then they can start up a Bitcoin exchange without regulatory problems. Their customers will have the confidence that their assets are insured and outside auditors and regulators are watching.

Bitcoin needs an exchange like this.

This has lots of advantages.  You can take orders through other brokers. Banks will deal with regulated brokers. You can get hooked into SWIFT, ACH, and the credit card systems.



Bitcoin is a security? That is quite the statement. It doesn't quite fall into the incredibly broad definition of "security" under the Securities Acts of 1933/1934 and Supreme Court guidance states that securities are "schemes devised by those who seek the use of the money of others on the promise of profits".

That's not to say that Bitcoin won't someday be declared a security -- either that or a commodity -- to put it under some regulatory rubric but, as of right now, it is not.
7  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: I'm looking for people to sell Bitcoins at upto 10% markup on Bitstamp price. on: September 06, 2013, 03:13:29 PM
You're going to run into reverse transaction fraud if your customers are allowed to use anything other than wires or certified payments. How will your company handle that? Will you have a CIP/KYC program to go after customers that abuse the system and/or are your transactional fees just atrociously high to manage the risk? Your 10 bitcoin deposit requirement seems too weak to deter sophisticated fraudsters (of which you will be inundated with).

What happens if the seller simply says the buyer's money never arrived and asks for his bitcoin back from your company? Can your company independently verify receipt of payment?

Also, logistically speaking, how will this work across different countries? It can take days for a transaction to clear, in which case the price of the bitcoin may fluctuate wildly and buyer/seller may no longer be interested in the transaction.
8  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: If virtual currency is taxed, why not tax sex, it is also a means of exchange... on: September 05, 2013, 08:46:59 PM
Makes no sense. How can you treat a barter exchange as income? If $600 worth of sex between two individuals took place, that logic leads to a total of $1,200 dollars taxed. What happens in case of a threesome, or an orgy? One orgy.
By the same token, if I am selling potatoes for US dollars, those dollars are my taxable income, but so are the buyer's potatoes. Does the buyer pay income tax on the value of potatoes? It's an exchange.

No. You receive $600 in income from the barter exchange. And then you deduct the $600 you gave in the barter exchange somewhere else on the return. The barter exchange therefore equals zero taxable income.
9  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: If virtual currency is taxed, why not tax sex, it is also a means of exchange... on: September 05, 2013, 08:29:02 PM
Favors, like sex, are also a means of exchange. What is legally the difference between taxing virtual currency and taxing sex?

There is no difference because you're thinking about it incorrectly.

The IRS taxes INCOME. The IRS -- and most taxing agencies in the world -- define income extremely broadly. If you receive non-monetary favors in lieu of money to do something, you're still supposed to report that as income (if you don't know the monetary value of the favor, you make a reasonable guesstimate). If your sex is in exchange for a $1000 watch, then you report an income of $1000.

So the IRS is not taxing the medium of exchange directly; it is taxing however the value of the income you received in the exchange.
10  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Would a US based escrow service be a Money Transmitter? on: August 19, 2013, 02:43:43 PM
Maybe. Most money transmitter laws are extremely broad and none specifically exempt escrow companies (if the escrow is a division of a bank and governed by banking regulations, then it is exempt). Under a plain reading of the statutes, escrow companies are required to get a license.

That said, escrow is an extremely old concept -- using a trusted third person to guarantee payment/delivery -- and regulation of this industry has been around for, literally, hundreds of years. It just seems odd to add another layer of licensure and regulation (along with likely a different set of regulators who may not understand escrow) on top of their business.

There is some debate as to whether escrow companies need to be licensed as money transmitters, as well. Obviously, non-bank independent escrow companies are (or should be) against the idea but there's been no effort to exempt them from the laws like there has been with the recent effort to exempt payroll companies in California.
11  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Is Bitcoin legally a Currency? on: August 12, 2013, 09:55:14 PM
I believe that the Bitcoin Foundation's argument is that in California BTC doesn't meet the definition of a currency.
That's irrelevant as it never went to court therefore it's not case law like the Texas ruling is.



Eh... I'd barely call what was done in Texas "case law". It was an opinion by a magistrate judge in one federal judicial district. Magistrate judges -- while technically possessing all the adjudicative powers of district judges over cases they're assigned to -- aren't confirmed by the Senate and their opinions are rarely cited as "case law", merely "persuasive authority", even in the districts they are in. I am not going to research specifically whether magistrate opinions are even publishable (other than on the case docket), further restricting their precedential value; it won't surprise me either way.

Regardless, this judge barely analyzed whether bitcoin is money, because it pretty obviously is. Any other judge that's faced with the question will likely rule the exact same way.
12  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: NY regulator issue subpoenas to firms tied to Bitcoin: WSJ on: August 12, 2013, 07:00:52 PM
Seriously, fuck the US and the State of New York. I hear there are other countries in the world, and some of them actually welcome entrepreneurs.

I don't understand this mentality. EVERY OTHER COUNTRY is going to want to make sure your precious decentralized Bitcoin isn't being used for criminal money laundering, child pornography, etc. However, that to you = US hates entrepreneurs! Seriously, the land of Google, Apply, Twitter, Facebook, Microsoft, Monsanato, Goldman Sachs, Intel -- just to list a few US-based WORLDWIDE leaders in their respective industries, many of which did not exist 20 years ago -- hates entrepreneurship? What universe are you living in?

The fact of the matter is that modern-day finance is largely routed through America. You cannot escape that fact. As such, American financial rules will eventually apply somewhere in your flows or if you want to expand beyond middle-of-fucking-nowhere-stan.
13  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Any way to sue Mtgox? on: July 17, 2013, 07:36:36 PM
The money was seized by the DHS and probably placed into some sort of trust account (ironically, it may still be sitting at the same bank it was seized from). I don't think DHS ever claimed that was Mt.Gox's money; only that it was money being illegally transmitted by Mt.Gox for US customers.

As such, the DHS should set up a process for Mt.Gox customers to claim the money seized. Mt.Gox no longer possesses the money so you can't sue Mt.Gox to get your money returned (really, what could a judge force them to do?). You MAY be able to sue them for violating the terms of service, not having the proper licenses and thus making you go through the pain of claiming your money from the government but the company is based in Japan so... good luck with that.

Mt.Gox may be willing to refund the money seized -- as someone on this thread claimed happened to him -- but that's completely up to them.
14  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: interstate commerce clause and bitcoin dollar exchange on: July 15, 2013, 09:48:27 PM
You're referring, I think, to the doctrine of the "Dormant Commerce Clause," (the "DCC") also known as the "Negative Commerce Clause."  It's taught in law school through Gibbons v Ogden, where the doctrine was first enunciated in the 19th Century.  Generally, the doctrine is that, since Congress  *could* pass a law regulating some particular instance of interstate commerce, that states *can't* pass such a law.

The DCC is typically applied when a state tries to tax or regulate something in a discriminatory or protectionist manner that might lead to the balkanization of the states.  For example, a state law that prohibits the export of shrimp unless the shrimp are first processed in that state would be held unconstitutional under the DCC.  The law clearly seeks to protect in-state businesses at the cost of out-of-state businesses.

There is a well-established exception to the DCC: where a law seeks to protect the public health or safety of the citizens of the state.  State money transmission laws clearly seek to protect the state's citizens from the harm of undercapitalized or fly-by-night money transmitters.  Money transmission laws fall under this exception.  It might also be the case that there is a federal statute out there that explicitly authorizes these laws, in which case they would fall under the "congressional authorization" exception as well.

Though I am not going to dive into the gazillion pages in the US Code and find a better example of a "congressional authorization", 18 USC 1960 seems to allow state money transmission laws, at least implicitly.
15  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I'm proud of the foundation on: July 12, 2013, 10:30:20 PM
The Foundation has proved its worth with its response to the California DFI alone. It was brilliantly crafted and obviously showed weeks of intense research by some of the best financial services lawyers in the country. Very few BTC companies in existence could have afforded to put a response like that together and everybody in the industry should be overjoyed that the Foundation -- which is most definitely NOT a money transmitter -- is the entity taking the heat from the most-feared state financial regulator in the country.

Yes, the Foundation advocates regulation of BTC. However, regulation is coming whether you want it or not. Sticking your heads in the ground while shouting how BTC should be the fountainhead for a worldwide libertarian tech-utopia will not keep the regulators away.
16  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I'm proud of the foundation on: July 12, 2013, 10:14:27 PM
The foundation may control the github repository of bitcoind/bitcoin-qt, however they do not control Bitcoin. If they have decided to give themselves 1 million coins or whatever, no one will use and people will fork in true open source fashion.


This is naive. Of course they would not do the obvious. But for a group of knowledgable persons it is easy to implement some "errors" that go unnoticed long enough to inflict serious damage.

Only a tiny fraction of all bitcoin users is able to understand the source code. And of this tiny fraction only few do actually verify it.

Wow. This is true paranoia. You really need to seek professional help.

The Bitcoin Foundation does not control bitcoin. It never will. Even if it manages to implement "errors" into the code, those errors will get noticed at some point because there are enough people outside of the Foundation that understand how bitcoin works and -- guess what? -- THEY WILL GO TO JAIL FOR CRIMINAL FRAUD. Because, as somebody else mentioned, they are a central organization and everybody knows who they are.
17  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Why are people so eager to pay tax? on: July 05, 2013, 08:52:51 PM
Isn't that a part of the attraction of bitcoin? You can AVOID tax?



That also happens to be against the law... let me check my worldwide statute book... everywhere. Anybody that helps you avoid tax liabilities will also be acting illegally.

So you'll need a group of users -- merchants and customers -- willing to flout the law (and possible jail time for conspiracy) in every single country in order to avoid taxes. Good luck with that. Those of us who live in the real world will report taxable income when legally required to do so.
18  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Is Bitcoin legally a Currency? on: July 05, 2013, 08:46:31 PM
I just don't get it.... why people are getting into legal trouble with Bitcoin. How can they say you need a Money transmitter license for Bitcoin? What is the difference between Bitcoin and Swagbucks or XBox points? To me it's just a digital product with no need for Government regulation at all.


Fiat in, fiat out. There is your simple answer..

That is WAY oversimplified. If that was the case, then PayPal would not need to be licensed. Same with MoneyGram, Western Union, Square, etc. Using fiat has nothing to do with it.
19  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Bitcoin Foundation receives cease and desist order from California on: July 05, 2013, 05:07:19 PM
The real meat in this letter is under Section C for "stored value." The Bitcoin Foundation says that Bitcoin is not stored value. This directly contradicts U.S. Department of Treasury FinCEN statements which say that the reason why Bitcoin operators need money transmitter licenses (or MSB licenses) is because BTC is stored value.
When did FinCEN state that bitcoin is stored value?  Since 2011, FinCEN regulations have referred to "prepaid access" rather than "stored value", and they have never claimed that bitcoin is prepaid access either.

In a letter to Tangible Cryptography LLC, the State of Virginia did claim that bitcoin was stored value.  However, the definition of stored value in the Virginia law is somewhat different than the California law and the former federal regulations.

FinCEN's March 18 guidance specifically said virtual currencies are not prepaid access.
20  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: BitCoin is NOT a Currency on: July 04, 2013, 08:25:01 PM
BitCoin is NOT a currency. Any business is rolling the dice accepting BitCoin with how volatile the price is. With how rapid the price swings (mostly down), no logical business would/should accept BitCoin. No different than gambling. To my knowledge my dollar last week is still a dollar today, not true with BitCoin, you would have taken a hefty loss this week only!

Your dollar is not actually the same dollar it was yesterday. It depreciated slightly in value (in fact, the major reason the Federal Reserve exists is to depreciate the value of the dollar in a stable way). In a year, most likely, your dollar won't be able to purchase the same amount of goods as it does today.

What you pointed out just means the dollar is merely more stable than bitcoin over the past few years. That may continue to be true tomorrow, next month or next year. Or it may not.
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