If I understand correctly, in order to send a transaction, you must first do proof of work for two other transactions, the result being that attempts to spam the network are essentially donating hash power to it.

Isn't that all of crypto in a nutshell?

The definition of a ponzi includes the critical element: 'promise of ROI', yet that word gets tossed toward any project claiming a potential yield high enough to offend people's sensibilities. Bitcoin itself is called a ponzi all the time, and yes "knee jerk" is an apt description. This is unfortunate, especially considering we increasingly live in a world with out of control law enforcement who will happily nail anyone's ass to the wall if there is money to grab and they think there is a chance public sentiment will permit it (or even if they don't in many cases). Personally I would rather live in a world where ponzi operators did not face harsh penalties and people were expected to assume personal responsibility for their own money by bearing the losses of their own mistakes... what a concept eh? Probably won't happen as long as everyone is having fun playing the blame game with knee jerk reactions though.

I think this coin is called an experiment for a reason. There is no fraud (promises being made), everyone can look at what's going on, and knows what they are getting into here.

Myself, I like this experiment and the other high POS coins. I wouldn't recommend anyone to put their life savings in them, however my own risk/reward analysis with these coins is that it's worth investing perhaps a small amount or play some swings and freeroll with a bit to stake, which is what I have done with mmxiv and 10k.

Personally, I'd be a bit sketchy about investing large into something that can be so easily screwed up by a few amateurs selling out cheap.  Actually, I never invest large in any crypto, but instead start in any market with a very small amount and build up my position only by profitable trading. If I can manage to build up to 20+ coins, perhaps I'll stake some of them. I know that if I had bought 1 coin and started staking it, there is no way I would have 7 coins + BTC investment recouped by now, so trading for me seems more profitable than staking... but I'm an amateur so what do I know, lol

Agreed.

Explaining to people why it's not profitable for them to sell and why it's in their interest to hold/stake/compound is going to carry much more appeal than asking them not to sell because large investors will be devastated if they do so.

Hey, if my piddly trading activity is helping others is some way, that's awesome by me. But my point is that it's not a good idea to invest heavily when the success of your investment relies on other people to behave altruistically, and it seems quite silly to me to implore people to do so.

You must always expect that people are going to act in their own self interest, often stupidly to their own detriment, but regardless, it's  pointless to ask them to do otherwise out of concern for others... at least when it comes to trading.

Small wallet holder here.

I buy when I think it's cheap, and I sell when I want to take profit or think I can buy it back later for cheaper. I will never make or avoid trades for the purpose of not devastating larger holders. I trade for my personal profit, playing the swings, without the slightest consideration to protect the questionable investments of larger players, or anyone else for that matter, which if large holders are "devastated" by small wallet dumpers, then the investment is definitely questionable in my opinion. Risking thousands of dollars that you would be "devastated" to lose, is idiotic in my book, and I'm not in the business of making futile efforts toward protecting idiotic investments of other people.

The sentiment that people should make trading decisions based on protecting other people's interest is ludicrous. Trading is a competitive activity, like poker... with everyone looking to make profit for themselves, more or less at the expense of some other traders.

I started out buying 1 MMXIV coin. I sold it for double what I paid, then bought 2x as much when the price came back down. I've done that several times over, earning back my original investment in BTC, plus I now have over 7 coins that are "freeriding", most of which are for sale at over 0.07 on the book, but I would sell them at any cheaper price if I became convinced it was in MY best interest to do so.

Zero fucks given whether this coin is "for me" or "not for me" or who it's "targeted for". I will continue to trade and sell at whatever prices I think are most profitable FOR ME... just like everyone else, probably including yourself.

umad bro?

I'm holding my coins so I can use the app. I see strong potential for a fully developed and useful application here. I'm only holding enough to use the app so a pre-mine dump or what the market does for any reason isn't that important to me.

Just save me from having to use the bittrex interface, please... and I don't care about price.

That being said, it seems very likely to me that sub 10k sat is a great buy for this coin at the moment, good to hold as long as development and activity remains strong.

If development and activity lags, before the app is developed to a highly useful and interesting state, then price could dip pretty low I would think. If the project is abandoned, then price will crash. Current valuation is speculative, (not yet driven by app-wanters like me so much) and speculators get impatient very quickly.

Worry about pre-mine dumping is a knee-jerk fear reaction that doesn't consider the bigger picture IMO. I mean even if you just assume the dev is holding a large amount of coins, and could crash the price, the likelihood is that it's more profitable to garner interest by creating a great app. So far we have every evidence of ability and intention. Any big sell off would logically come later when there are a lot of people who want to use this application and that interest level will then support the price anyway. If the project stalls out and/or dies for any reason then price will crash regardless of premine dumping or no.

I think future valuation of QTL hinges entirely on quality and pace of development of the trader application, and its resulting popularity. I would keep my eye on that ball as the main indicator if I were putting money into this coin.

It's a good idea, and I think there is an argument for making advanced autotrading features more expensive (require more holdings rather), if nothing else so that that effectiveness is not diluted, but 10,000 might be a bit much, especially if it gets popular.

 
You and me both! Keeps incentive strong for rapid development

I imagine eventually there will be an open source trading platform offering advanced features and supporting multiple exchanges, but I also imagine it could be a while before we see anything like that. I hope QTL trader can fill in the gap nicely until (if/when) that comes along.

I resonate with Jame's vision of providing a lot of power and flexibility for non-coders to auto trade... it's what I want very much.

I think his project aims to operate on a decentralized exchange platform (NXT), not bittrex and such, though I just skimmed the thread, so I could be wrong about that, but even so it seems it will be a while before we have anything functional to actually begin using:


Charts, trade history, depth columns, full screen and other basic features mentioned by others are sorely needed more than auto trade features IMO... you could make the crappy interface at bittrex website obsolete very easily just with these, and that would go a long way toward increasing popularity.

As it is, I don't use quatloo trader for trades regularly because it lacks these basic features, and it's necessary to examine the charts and trade history at bittrex itself still (which is a painful ordeal).... but if QTL trader had these basics covered, I would vastly prefer it instead.

I suggest not setting the bar too high with tiered payments and such... a low bar will be more profitable ultimately because more people will be interested in using it if they don't have to take the risk of holding a bunch of QTL, which is likely to be very volatile... especially as value increases. Try to strike the right balance there.

Yeah, I don't understand why the 50 limit, I sure wish we could get the complete books.

Most important to me (besides charts) is being able to see down to about 25 listings though, on books and trade history... *without having to scroll*, and with depth columns for order books... such as altcoinlive does. I think the layout there is very well thought out and useful for how simple it is... you should copy it IMO.

Only 10 listings visible (unscrolled) without any charts or depth columns, where I have to scroll two listings and start adding numbers in my head is painful to try and do when simultaneously monitoring 20+ markets throughout the day.  I need that info ready at a quick glance. That's why I don't really use the charts and books as listed on the exchange itself and prefer altcoinlive... not to mention that having that many bittrex tabs open sucks the life out of my browser and ram.

I dream of a trading app that reduces the number of places I have to go to research and gather info about coins. I want the app to do all that for me, as much as possible because it's so time consuming (and I'm a lazy bastard). What I really dream of is an open source app which does all this, that supports multiple exchanges, but I suppose that's asking a bit much lol.

But I'm still very grateful for what you have done here... such a great idea, I'm looking forward to continued development!

Would be nice if I could see more of the order book, perhaps a larger/re-sizable window to accommodate more of it.

Candlestick and depth charts. A good depth chart like MP has.

The depth value columns for the books are very important, would be nice to be able to toggle between units and btc value on those. Trade history is important too, preferably color coded with buys in green, sells in red. I like the charts and books as laid out on altcoinlive... much simpler but better than bitcoinwisdom in my opinion, mostly because you can see more information on the screen without having to scroll. I would like to see a similar format, with the other information displayed in the blank area to the right.

Display/monitor and/or chart other basic stats such as XXhour volume, coin age, max and current supply, block rewards/production rate, net hash rates, rich lists, google trends/twitter/forum activity, pre-mine amount, etc etc... the more the better, but with clever functionality to manage the visibility in limited space (which again, should be maximized to full screen).

Audio/email/sms alerts for not only static price targets, but configurable for all other stats too, for instance: if volume over the last 3 hours is 10%+ greater than the 3 hour volume average of the last 3 days, and price > y , then alert (or trade). I would love to be able to specify multiple conditions such as this, and something like a checklist of coins that each rule set I define can be applied to.

Besides alert, be able to place, cancel and/or re-adjust orders based on conditions such as amount of support/resistance through a given price range.... for instance if support builds to x amount in y to z price range, then place a buy order, or cancel an order if the support wanes past the specified level. I would like to have as many stats/conditions to work with as possible as well as maximum flexibility in combining them into rule sets.

I would like to assign a weight to stats and conditions which I specify which can then all be factored to produce a score, and to sort a partial or entire list of coins according to their scores.

Open multiple markets in multiple windows to take advantage of multiple screens.

Time can be of the essence at times... it would be nice to have some quick basic functions in a menu, such as a "dump" option that will just dump all your coins into the current buy orders in one click +confirm, without having to do a bunch of clicking around or typing anything.

Personal wish list

Thanks for making this tool. It seems like a very interesting way as a developer to make a good amount of money from a software that is more or less free or very affordable to use compared to similar tools which typically require you to buy an expensive license. I'm hopeful because I see a great incentive for continued development with this model. My suggestion is develop aggressively from here if possible because competition will likely not be far behind once this proves to be successful.

Yes, I'm referring to the github repository. I must assume that Darksend implements the coinjoin concept from scratch, otherwise it would not be legal or right to distribute the program in object form only.

I do have full respect for the decision of the developer to release the code as he sees fit, as long as it's a completely original work... but I also have a lot of admiration and respect for GPL licensing, and I believe it should be honored. Open source software is the primary foundation upon which this whole crypto thing is possible, and the licenses ensure the public benefit of the authors' contributions are not usurped by private interests.

I did some poking around, but I didn't find an answer to verify that Darksend is not based on GPL'd code... I assume that it is not, but I was hoping someone here would know for sure.

I have a question about Darksend and the open source issue.

As I understand it, it's based on the coinjoin code. Is that correct. Coinjoin was released under the  AGPL license which forbids derivative works to be distributed without source.

Is Darksend written from scratch then or is it modified from coinjoin source? If so, how is it able to be distributed without source code legally?

Never offended. I doubt anyone here could accomplish that. My apologies if I sounded offended

I just have a weakness for calling people out when I think they are talking shit about others, when it's not  justified

Yeah, because I didn't presume to know his intentions were manipulative and took what he said in good faith, that means I was "fooled". Yep. They don't call me foolio for nothin'! Or... you could be as wrong about him as he may be about where the price is heading.

Tok's analysis is good, I agree. It's much appreciated. I appreciate Mike's input very much as well. IceBucket's too, and anyone who takes the their time out to share their honest opinion. The way I see it is you really never know someone's intentions... admittedly in some cases it's pretty obvious that they troll or FUD, not in Mike's.

This is what I see: when someone says something that you don't really like, then it's tempting to cast aspersions toward their character, and project malign intentions onto them. Bingo?

Yeah, you're a riot. I must admit you're maybe my favorite poster in this group.

Regarding stooping lower, I forgot to thank you for that little compliment. I really gave it my best shot, and that's high praise coming from you.

I'm quite sure you're awesome in many ways. You know, a lot of people turn out to be once you can see past your own ego. You're smart. You're a big dog... that's pretty awesome. I'm pretty sure you're not such a dick really either, you just enjoy acting like one. You are entertaining about it, I'll give you that

Thanks for the invitation, but I think I will refrain. I sincerely hope you do not genuinely feel it is your right or duty to "provide pain" to "teach the stupid". It's kind of funny as a way to be colorful internet personality, quite disturbing if that's the way you actually feel. Cases  yours that are always due to a fragile and insecure ego, which your persona attempts to conceal by portraying itself as the exaggerated opposite (massive superiority complex). The funny thing is I believe it's painfully obvious to almost everyone who reads your stuff probably way more than you imagine.

I'm pretty sure you will be 100% close minded to anything I have said as well because said insecure ego will not be allow you to process any information that does not seek to form a refutation and attack on what I have said, (too scary for ego to contemplate the truth of that) or allow you any meaningful level of introspection into how completely self centered and warped your way of thinking is.

Maybe people are stupid... being a dick is worse IMO... and there's your name. You're welcome.

 

How do you define your self worth? I'm curious. Is it by the amount of narcissism, arrogance, and self righteousness you can ooze out?

So hard to say it seems. I would think we could still see another week or so of descending prices. It doesn't look bottomed out to me. The only buying activity is when it hits a low, it bounces off it a bit before going down again. We're just bouncing off of .013. I'm looking for it to stabilize more or less before I get back in. I kind of doubt it will go rocketing any time soon, and I'm not trying to buy a ton of coin, so I'm just going to be patient for now.