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Very good article. But are the things written here all true? It could be that they are because they have posted all over reddit about being involved one way or another. A very sloppy job by them. They expected the original chain to go away that is why they did not have any interest in the ETC by them. Now that it has survived they tried to dump it on Polo and Kraken.  The article cites a lot of sources and verifiable facts. At the very least you can look at those and make up your own mind, unlike with the Bity explanation for the dump attempt, which was mostly opinion and speculation. Yes. They have posted many things on reddit and corresponded with the community about it so they cannot deny anything anymore if someone wants this to go to court. Maybe that is why they are hiding behind Bity SA for legal advice. Which brings me to another question. What is Bity SA and why is the white hat hacking group using them for legal advice? Will anybody in the world bring a case against the white hat hackers? Will that be also a public prosecution? They are returning the funds therefore there will not be a need for that. |
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What is the update to this? It is like ETC holders and supporters are in denial of this and they are ignoring it. They all hail that the ETC from the white hat hackers will be returned but it might not be true. Is this the reason why ETC is going down this quickly? Its unbelievable that Ethereum gave a statement of securing 7.2 million funds in the case a HF didn't gain approval. Now the situation is that nobody knows what the hell is going on with DAO ETC which is being sent around. Furthermore i don;t even know whether to trust the White hat who claimed to have secured it. I just don;t understand why he would come public with his identity if he isn't going to return it therefore i am giving this situation the benefit of the doubt. I don't really know whats going on, I will update when the situation is clearer. What a mess of a situation, I had so much hope for the DAO when i invested - and its just led to a bunch of BS. How much did you invest in DAO and have you received your refund in ETH? I also invested and now have my refund in ETH. I don't think it's quite as simple as you imagine to return the white hat DAO ETC criminal coin as you just with the click of a finger/moose. I also believe that the white hats deserve something for their endeavours. You would expect the White hats tp be pretty transparant about what they are doing with the funds before sending them. They know the funds are being watched closely. They would announce that they are sending the funds to X address & Y Address for this reason or that. So far - Nada. We'll have to wait and see how this plays out i guess. |
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What is the update to this? It is like ETC holders and supporters are in denial of this and they are ignoring it. They all hail that the ETC from the white hat hackers will be returned but it might not be true. Is this the reason why ETC is going down this quickly? Its unbelievable that Ethereum gave a statement of securing 7.2 million funds in the case a HF didn't gain approval. Now the situation is that nobody knows what the hell is going on with DAO ETC which is being sent around. Furthermore i don;t even know whether to trust the White hat who claimed to have secured it. I just don;t understand why he would come public with his identity if he isn't going to return it therefore i am giving this situation the benefit of the doubt. I don't really know whats going on, I will update when the situation is clearer. What a mess of a situation, I had so much hope for the DAO when i invested - and its just led to a bunch of BS. |
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This is very interesting and i have updated the original thread with a link to this reddit post. I respect Alex Van De Sande for speaking out and giving clarity of the situation( finally). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wouldn't call myself part of the Robin Hood Group, not because I’m afraid of legal consequences or ashamed of it, but because I don’t think I’m worthy of that title. The guys who made the DAO counter attack were able to create attack vectors much more sophisticated than the original attacker developed, and created new ways to twist it so that the original attacker couldn’t counterattack. They set up active running scripts that at some point were constantly draining the dao to 1 wei, to capture any ether the attacker sent to the DAO to set up a new attack. I would never be able to do any of this. While I did a small part in helping the original counterattack, I’ve also been told that since the first attack most of the original group splintered and only a few kept pushing forward. I haven’t participated since that day, I don’t control any of the private keys to any relevant addresses, I had recent contact with them, but since the main goal was accomplish I don’t intend to keep contact and I certainly don’t want to be seen as their spokeperson for the next step.. Also, even the small part I did, I acted as an individual, not as part of the Ethereum Foundation. I never told Vitalik about my plans and when Ming, the Executive Director, asked me about it I refused to tell her, so that the Foundation wouldn’t be in any way implicated or active in this. Last time I spoke to the White Hat Group about the status they had told me the attacker was able to run off with a big part of the funds and while they had recently won some battles, the funds were far from secure as they were still aware of possible attacks – which is why I didn’t want to make any public comment on that matter, otherwise the attention could jeopardize this whole thing. IMHO part of the reason they were more successful now was because the DAO had less value and was under a lot less scrutiny since the fork, I doubt such attack would be successful had the fork not taken place. Before you guys talk about what they are going to do with the funds, notice that this group had absolutely no obligation to keep doing what they were doing, yet kept doing it anyway. They worked hard for the fork to happen because they wanted all the DAO investors to be made whole – and they accomplished that – but then the Ethereum Classic community made its central tenet that such a solution was morally wrong and we were all corrupt for doing it. The blackhat hacker tried their best to ruin any chance of counterattack, negotiation or ceasefire) yet I’ve seen posts in this community comparing them to Satoshi Nakamoto. These guys have done what no one else was willing or capable to do, yet they are constantly harassed and whenever I read a question about the White Hat Group’s ETC funds, the first answers usually mention lawsuits or assume malice on their part. I wonder how many DAO token holders today are even the same people who believed the original vision and participated on the launch and how many tokens are currently held simply by people who wanted to buy them for a chance of an arbitrage opportunity. Now, of course, this doesn’t represent the full community, I’ve been in contact with people from the Classic mod team that are trying to change the tone, but my recent experiences on this community haven't helped to change my opinion on it. To make it completely clear, while I appreciate the irony that the same people who claimed the Dark attacker was the rightful owner because “code is law” are asking the opposite of the white hat attackers, I don’t endorse this idea: my understanding has always been that they would do their best to give the money back to the community, otherwise they would be no better than the black hat. I do not know what they intend to do now and I learned that the recovery was successful via reddit like everyone else. While I believe they have the best intentions they are also at risk for a lot of legal troubles and costs. On a personal note I’ve lended them DAO tokens for the attack, which I haven’t seen since. I’ll be asking them for the eth-dao to be returned, but I’m donating the etc-dao to them. My main point is this, they could have washed their hands of all this the day of the fork and let it all be taken by the thieves you applauded. If anything is ever recovered it’s all due to the tireless work of these people. So instead of constantly debating how much the white hats owe you, ask yourself how much you owe the white hats.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My thoughts on the sentence highlighted in red They deserve a carrot only IF they return the funds - NOT 18 Million dollars of DAO holders ETC. |
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If you want the ETC then agree (in writing in your petition) to give back the ETH you received as refund.
(but I can 100% bet that you have an excuse for wanting to keep both!)
You're kidding, right?  The FACT that all these ETC opportunist hypocrites have kept & split their respective ETH is what makes the OP's claim valid. I mean come on, folks! Chances are the white hats would NEVER want to put the effort if they read some of the crap the OP is posting, but such counterarguments/demands that totally ignore the reality of the situation are as idiotic. Agreed Stinky lover is now a self proclaimed moron |
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------------------------------------------------------------------- The DAO mandate------------------------------------------------------- The DAO mandate: is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price. This gives the authority to people running "The DAO" to take actions that increase the valuation of the tokens and ETH. Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH. Of course, people will disagree with this, but it is August and I'm sure everyone not on holiday is pretty bored  Your point A) The DAO is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price. Yes - But on the old chain or the new chain? Original DAO was on the Ethereum Classic chain. The DAO had the function of rewarding investors of the DAO. Maximisation of investors funds involve redistributing ETC to all DAO holders. Your point B) Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH. Disposing ETC would result in scarcity of the coins on the ETC chain. This would not maximise the valuation of ETH however maximise the valuation of ETC. |
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A lesson in tying humour into a BS situation.
I won't be in the court room, i'm too small fish to take further action on this but you can have fun supporting the defence if it comes to that.
The purpose of this thread is to raise awareness as so far nobody has come forward with a statement or anything regarding the ETC ( and hopefully get some signatures)
The amount of people on this thread who don't seem to understand that the DAO holders are the victims in this case is astounding. - They rather side with supposed 'white hat' hackers' who has shown no interest so far to return DAO holders rightfully owned stolen ETC. If they have - please post a link to this thread!
You're still completely ignorant of the fact that safely removing funds from the white hat DAO may require a soft fork. That's why you need to talk to people who actually know this shit instead of stirring it for your imaginary intertubes cred. Is ETC going to soft fork for you? Can someone figure out another way? You can wave your petition all day long but if you don't know the technical details, aren't willing to do the work yourself, and don't intend to go to court despite throwing legal threats around - you're just wasting everyone's time. it's a good-enough theory for a lawyer to take his money and sleep soundly at night.  touché Its NOT my obligation to do any of that. Its the obligation of whoever has my ETC. If they want to be compensated for their time - the DAO holders can reward them with ETC from the pool of funds - as i said previously. Analogy - So supposedly trustable & respectable white hat theives (who are associated to a 1 Billion dollar SAFE & Security Corporation) take your diamonds from a safe to prevent the black hat theives from taking it and put it in their max security safe. Now as the diamond owner - it is my obligation to find a way to remove the diamonds out of the 'white hats safe' - Despite not knowing the password, the location, the mechanisms of the safe, the thickness of the metal, the amount of security guards protecting it etc etc. The white hat theives know all of this yet its now my responsibility.LOL |
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18 millions dollars isn't a joke....
IF DAO holders wanted to sue - they could put up a really good case and it would then tie alot of things into the mix about using a new chain with an old brand. . I will be surprised if a whale doesn;t sue eventually especially if ETC rises in value more.
I won't sue as i am not a whale in by any means.
However i do want whats rightfully mine and if you do to - PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION
Well, then make up your mind. If you're not going to sue then your empty legal threats don't mean anything. Have you even talked to the van-de-something white hat guy or do you just get the kick out of stirring shit on the intertubes?
Me - Hi MR Sande - Did you notice you and your 'white hat' hacker team which you curated still owes DAO Investors over 18 million dollars. Van de - No it must of slipped my mind Me - Oh really, Gee, Thats why you and your chronies havn't updated anybody as to what your doing with the stolen DAO ETC. Van de - Yes, well alot of things slip my mind , especially when you work for Ethereum Me - Yes really tough remembering to update people when you work for Ethereum and the ETC & ETH case has been ongoing for the past month.  I mean its only a mere 7.2 million ETC- So will you give back the ETC? Van de -- Well no DAO investor has asked for it back untill now Me - Well look at the petition PLEASE SIGN THE PETITIONA lesson in how to make friends and influence people. Your attitude will always get closed doors. Get your money ready. The only way you'll get this ETC is in court. And I'll be supporting the defense all the way. A lesson in tying humour into a BS situation. I won't be in the court room, i'm too small fish to take further action on this but you can have fun supporting the defence if it comes to that. The purpose of this thread is to raise awareness as so far nobody has come forward with a statement or anything regarding the ETC ( and hopefully get some signatures) The amount of people on this thread who don't seem to understand that the DAO holders are the victims in this case is astounding. - They rather side with supposed 'white hat' hackers' who has shown no interest so far to return DAO holders rightfully owned stolen ETC. If they have - please post a link to this thread!
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18 millions dollars isn't a joke....
IF DAO holders wanted to sue - they could put up a really good case and it would then tie alot of things into the mix about using a new chain with an old brand. . I will be surprised if a whale doesn;t sue eventually especially if ETC rises in value more.
I won't sue as i am not a whale in by any means.
However i do want whats rightfully mine and if you do to - PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION
Well, then make up your mind. If you're not going to sue then your empty legal threats don't mean anything. Have you even talked to the van-de-something white hat guy or do you just get the kick out of stirring shit on the intertubes?
Me - Hi MR Sande - Did you notice you and your 'white hat' hacker team which you curated still owes DAO Investors over 18 million dollars. Van de - No it must of slipped my mind Me - Oh really, Gee, Thats why you and your chronies havn't updated anybody as to what your doing with the stolen DAO ETC. Van de - Yes, well alot of things slip my mind , especially when you work for Ethereum Me - Yes really tough remembering to update people when you work for Ethereum and the ETC & ETH case has been ongoing for the past month. I mean its only a mere 7.2 million ETC- So will you give back the ETC? Van de -- Well no DAO investor has asked for it back untill now Me - Well look at the petition PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION |
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Ethereum Classic is the original chain which DAO investors invested in. The fact it got hard forked & now some ethereum guys have millions of dollars of ETC (Which belong to the DAO investors)which they were meant to protect isn't right! ITS ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL
Wait, what? So the DAO investors wanted the bailout and to get their ETH back, now they want to get some ETC as well? There is an easy solution to that. Fork again and roll it back. Worked great the last time. They have stolen money! They have no right to stolen money. They should return it to who it rightfully belongs to, otherwise they are criminal thieves. I signed the petition. Thanks for your support |
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https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ethereum-devs-hack-the-hacker-price-skyrockets/Indications that something was under foot were given yesterday later afternoon when Alex Van de Sande, lead designer at the Ethereum Foundation, twitted that a whitehat attack on the DAO was under way. After some tense hours, Sande explained in a public post that “a group of very smart people” which, according to Stephan Tual, were composed of “ members of eth foundation, devs, security experts, ethcore, slock,” acting as individuals and not as representatives or with any endorsement of their employers, infiltrated “all open split proposals” and secured 7.2 million eth “now held in a child DAO” with the team holding “the private keys of the curator.” Fabian Vogelsteller, lead Ðapp developer at Ethereum, stated in a public post: “We know the curator of the Attacker DAO with 3.5M ether, now 7.2 ether are safe in a DAO where we also know the curator. With a temporary Soft Fork all this ethers can be send to a refund contract and the nightmare is over!” There seems to be little, if any, controversy regarding the soft fork which has already been merged in Parity, one of Ethereum’s clients, and will be merged in Go within a day or two. According to an ethpool vote, miners are almost unanimously in favor, developers are in full consensus, and most users seem to be in favor. However, the hard-fork, which has been subject to much debate, may be avoided. Sande, who has been against the hard-fork from the beginning, stated that the “[h]ard fork is unnecessary at this point.” --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These individuals have the responsibility to return ETC back to the DAO holdersSIGN THE PETITION IF YOU AGREE
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Let me get this quite straight before I have a laugh attack: You want a lot of people, ETC investors all, to sign a "petition" so the ETH hackers who stole the ETC will return what they stole? Do you even realize how funny that is? Do you think a few hundred -or thousand, or hundred of thousand- signatures will make them to reconsider and become good guys all of a sudden --assuming they are not fully convinced they have been just smarter than you and the other victims? OK, after almost getting sick of laughing so hard, thanks for showing me that naivety still exists... to call it by it most innocent name, of course. W.O.W... Wrong - I want DAO holders to sign the petition which basically outlines that members of the Ethereum white hat hacker team should return the 7.2 million ETC back to DAO Investors. The ETC funds held by them is currently worth 18 million dollars and this issue isn't being brought to light. |
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Ok so as I gets it, the OP is asking for someone, anyone apart from him, to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC criminal coin of whatever someone invested into the DAO ETH chain. Ok dude we is waiting on your skills. Why criticise others when you can't even produce yourself. Fuckin disgusting self entitled idiot. You are worse than a Spoetniktard sockie.
LOL - this actually made me laugh for a minute.... a) its not more criminal than any other currency being the dollar, shekel, franc etc.... b) You don't get it. It isn't my obligation"'to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC'". It is the obligation of whoever is holding my rightful ETC by taking it in the first place aka members of the Ethereum team ( who were trusted to return it). c)Secondly - Yes, i could contact the individual who led the white hat but will it go anywhere?? <---- LULZZZ Before making this thread i came across this only request on the ethereum stack exchange http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/7613/ethereum-classic-etc-and-the-dao-holders-will-the-white-hat-hackers-return-tThe question was put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Roland Kofler, eth♦ Aug 1 at 7:02 So no answers there......... I also don't think that the white hat hackers should be reward 18 MILLION dollars for their efforts. That is ludicrous therefore stop making the narrative being that they deserve it for trying to rescue the funds which didn;t work out so now they deserve to be filthy rich at the expense of the DAO holders. Its rediculous. No, what's "rediculous" is your spelling AND your willy waving without even trying to do the adult thing and talk to the person involved. They are not "holding" your ETC. They have created a child DAO, which is far from being secure from further attacks. But thanks for clarifying that you're not actually interesting in any kind of solution. Happy trolling. Great english And yes i don;t think that it will go anywhere which is why i created a petition. Dipstick. As was inscribed on my old cassacius coin - ' Vires in Numeris'. |
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Ok so as I gets it, the OP is asking for someone, anyone apart from him, to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC criminal coin of whatever someone invested into the DAO ETH chain. Ok dude we is waiting on your skills. Why criticise others when you can't even produce yourself. Fuckin disgusting self entitled idiot. You are worse than a Spoetniktard sockie.
LOL - this actually made me laugh for a minute.... a) its no more criminal than any other currency being the dollar, shekel, franc etc.... b) You don't get it. It isn't my obligation"'to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC'". It is the obligation of whoever is holding my rightful ETC by taking it in the first place aka members of the Ethereum team ( who were trusted to return it). If the coders really want some funds to do this for their time, the DAO holders can compensate by giving some ETC from the pool of funds. c) Yes, i could contact the individual who led the white hat but will it go anywhere?? Before making this thread i came across this only request on the ethereum stack exchange http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/7613/ethereum-classic-etc-and-the-dao-holders-will-the-white-hat-hackers-return-tThe question was put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Roland Kofler, eth♦ Aug 1 at 7:02 So no answers there......... I also don't think that the white hat hackers should be rewarded 18 MILLION dollars for their efforts. That is ludicrous therefore stop making the narrative that they deserve it for trying to rescue the funds, which didn;t work out - now they deserve to be filthy rich at the expense of the DAO holders. Its rediculous. |
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Scenerio 1
Ethereum returns the ETC funds to its rightful owners. This causes an increased supply of ETC and therefore will most likely result in greater selling pressure. Most DAO holders will most likely cash out of there ETC position driving the price to the ground. Ethereum will no longer have a legal thorn by its side and can move on.
Scenerio 2
Ethereum Devs decide to keep the ETC. This proves Ethereum team can't be trusted & ignites a whole range of legal issues.
Scenerio 3
Ethereum Devs decide that they will not move the ETC and dispose of the private keys. ETC is now more scarce than Ethereum and they still have issue with legality of the whole thing.
IF the thief is able to have access and move his funds, why would the Ethereum team be reluctant to compensate honest DAO investors. ETC is now listed in all the top exchanges. This rash is not going to go away.
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