MEMBERS OF ETHEREUM TO RETURN ETC TO DAO INVESTORS PETITION

[gorgon666]

Ethereum Classic is the original chain which DAO investors invested in. The fact it got hard forked & now some ethereum guys have millions of dollars of ETC (Which belong to the DAO investors)which they were meant to protect isn't right! ITS ILLEGAL AND  IMMORAL

Wait, what? So the DAO investors wanted the bailout and to get their ETH back, now they want to get some ETC as well?

There is an easy solution to that. Fork again and roll it back. Worked great the last time.

They have stolen money! They have no right to stolen money. They should return it to who it rightfully belongs to, otherwise they are criminal thieves.

I signed the petition.

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

Ethereum Classic is the original chain which DAO investors invested in. The fact it got hard forked & now some ethereum guys have millions of dollars of ETC (Which belong to the DAO investors)which they were meant to protect isn't right! ITS ILLEGAL AND  IMMORAL

Wait, what? So the DAO investors wanted the bailout and to get their ETH back, now they want to get some ETC as well?

There is an easy solution to that. Fork again and roll it back. Worked great the last time.

They have stolen money! They have no right to stolen money. They should return it to who it rightfully belongs to, otherwise they are criminal thieves.

I signed the petition.

Thanks for your support

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

18 millions dollars isn't a joke....
IF DAO holders wanted to sue - they could put up a really good case and it would then tie alot of things into the mix about using a new chain with an old brand. . I will be surprised if a whale doesn;t sue eventually especially if ETC rises in value more.
I won't sue as i am not a whale in by any means.
However i do want whats rightfully mine and if you do to - PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

Well, then make up your mind. If you're not going to sue then your empty legal threats don't mean anything.

Have you even talked to the van-de-something white hat guy or do you just get the kick out of stirring shit on the intertubes?

What i am  going to say to Van-de Sande.

Me - Hi MR Sande - Did you notice you and your 'white hat' hacker team which you curated still owes DAO Investors over 18 million dollars.

Van de  - No it must of slipped my mind

Me - Oh really, Gee, Thats why you and your chronies havn't updated anybody as to what your doing with the stolen DAO ETC.

Van de - Yes, well alot of things slip my mind , especially when you work for Ethereum

Me -  Yes really tough remembering to update people when you work for Ethereum and the ETC & ETH case has been ongoing for the past month.          
        I mean its only a mere 7.2 million ETC-  So will you give back the ETC?

Van de  -- Well no DAO investor has asked for it back untill now

Me - Well look at the petition



PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

[StinkyLover]

18 millions dollars isn't a joke....
IF DAO holders wanted to sue - they could put up a really good case and it would then tie alot of things into the mix about using a new chain with an old brand. . I will be surprised if a whale doesn;t sue eventually especially if ETC rises in value more.
I won't sue as i am not a whale in by any means.
However i do want whats rightfully mine and if you do to - PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

Well, then make up your mind. If you're not going to sue then your empty legal threats don't mean anything.

Have you even talked to the van-de-something white hat guy or do you just get the kick out of stirring shit on the intertubes?

What i am  going to say to Van-de Sande.

Me - Hi MR Sande - Did you notice you and your 'white hat' hacker team which you curated still owes DAO Investors over 18 million dollars.

Van de  - No it must of slipped my mind

Me - Oh really, Gee, Thats why you and your chronies havn't updated anybody as to what your doing with the stolen DAO ETC.

Van de - Yes, well alot of things slip my mind , especially when you work for Ethereum

Me -  Yes really tough remembering to update people when you work for Ethereum and the ETC & ETH case has been ongoing for the past month.          
        I mean its only a mere 7.2 million ETC-  So will you give back the ETC?

Van de  -- Well no DAO investor has asked for it back untill now

Me - Well look at the petition



PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

A lesson in how to make friends and influence people.

Your attitude will always get closed doors. Get your money ready. The only way you'll get this ETC is in court. And I'll be supporting the defense all the way.

[Nxtblg]

I would suggest that you go ahead with your "legal implications". Don't forget to update this thread with how that works out, e.g. did the lawyers laugh at you immediately or just after they took your money, etc (pun intended).

OP: I want to sue somebody for X million.
Lawyers: Do they owe you?
OP: No, I was paid back what I was owed, but they have something else that's worth so much money and I want it.

You misunderestimate lawyers' agility.

All a lawyer needs is some reasoning-by-analogy that's the kernel of a plausible theory and he's ready to go. If the legal beagle gets the idea that the Ethereum ---> forked Ethereum + Ethereum Classic is like a split of a company into two, called a "spinoff," then he has a theory he can work.

1) Show that every holder of Ethereum before the split block received equal amounts of Ethereum-Fork and Ethereum Classic;
2) Show that Ethereum Classic has a copy of The DAO which contains Ethereum Classic, and that draining this version of The Dao does not touch the Ethereum-Fork DAO's holdings in the least, thus demonstrating that the Ethereum Classic in the ETC-DAO is separate from the Ethereum-Fork held by the "real" DAO;
3) Tie (1) and (2) together by showing that token holders in The DAO pre-fork have equal amounts of The DAO tokens for each blockchain;
4) Drag in the analogy relating the one-blockchain-into-two to a corporate spinoff, for which there are lots of precedents to show that all shareholders in Company X are entitled to their aliquot shares in both company X1 and Company X2;
5) Possibly put an insta-expert on the stand to demonstrate that a) the fork reduced the value of the "real" Ethereum and b) there's a negative correlation between the value of Ethereum-fork and Ethereum Classic, which tightens up the Ethereum-as-corporate-property analogy. [This one might well be superfluous, and it is risky because the insta-expert would be subject to cross-examination.]
6) Demonstrate that The DAO is a creature of the Ethereum blockchain, has no life or value outside of it, and demonstrate that The DAO has value with the Ethereum blockchain - and that The DAO-Classic has value in Ethereum Classic.
7) Conclude by adducing standard company-split precedents that all say that a company which splits owes its shareholders aliquot stakes in both new companies - and demonstrate that this analogy is exact with respect to forked Ethereum and Ethereum Classic.

So yeah, I'd say that a lawyer would take his money.


P.S. I'm no legal beagle myself, but I found this out when two mining-exploration companies were amalgamated into one (which became a producing gold mine, by the way) a long time ago. The two companies were called Golden Giant and Golden Sceptre, and they held deposits next to each other that were amalgamated into a new company called Hemlo Gold. As part of the re-org, which started off by merging Giant and Sceptre, each shareholder in each company got stock in three companies: Hemlo Gold, New Golden Giant and New Golden Sceptre. Never mind that the last two went nowhere; each shareholder was still entitled to a piece of all three because otherwise some corporate property from the temporarily-merged Giant-Sceptre company would have been unaccounted for.

The only risk with the above theory comes with the kernel analogizing a cryptocurrency to a corporation. But a capable lawyer could adduce the IRS ruling that cryptocurrency is property, and hope that the judge carries the ball the rest of the way by deciding that the analogy to corporate property is legally sound. It's not a sure thing, but it's a good-enough theory for a lawyer to take his money and sleep soundly at night.

[NorthPixel]

Huh ? The "whitehat" attackers, first of all, are unknown. Secondly, if these whitehat attackers, whoever they are,  earned their 7.2mil ether legit, they used the same loophole the first atacker did so what's the problem ? I mean, IF ETC community thinks first DAO attacker earned it honestly, why would they want whitehat's to return what they earned ? Why is it right for the first attacker and wrong for them ? It's survival of the fittest on ETC blockchain, the stronger survives, if he's better than others then he / they deserve it all.
Why would the foundation give their ETC to those that suffered loses because of the DAO ? LOL, ethereum foundation is not charitable foundation. Now there's ethereum, the main chain with the theft removed and the WILDWEST ETC. If you chose to stay on ETC and sold your ETH, that's a choice. Or you bought in what the shills said "ETC is the new ETH" and you were dumped on ?

If the DAO black hat hacker does not return the ETC to the rightful owners, it will be worthless. So there is no need for the white hats to return.

[pereira4]

Sorry, DAO was a disaster that spread across ETH, now they are trying to save face claiming the fork was a good idea when everyone knows they fucked up big, big time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGGW9ozE-ys

Excellent video to see both sides of the coin, and ETC objectively wins the debate.

[StinkyLover]

I would suggest that you go ahead with your "legal implications". Don't forget to update this thread with how that works out, e.g. did the lawyers laugh at you immediately or just after they took your money, etc (pun intended).

OP: I want to sue somebody for X million.
Lawyers: Do they owe you?
OP: No, I was paid back what I was owed, but they have something else that's worth so much money and I want it.

You misunderestimate lawyers' agility.

All a lawyer needs is some reasoning-by-analogy that's the kernel of a plausible theory and he's ready to go. If the legal beagle gets the idea that the Ethereum ---> forked Ethereum + Ethereum Classic is like a split of a company into two, called a "spinoff," then he has a theory he can work.

1) Show that every holder of Ethereum before the split block received equal amounts of Ethereum-Fork and Ethereum Classic;
2) Show that Ethereum Classic has a copy of The DAO which contains Ethereum Classic, and that draining this version of The Dao does not touch the Ethereum-Fork DAO's holdings in the least, thus demonstrating that the Ethereum Classic in the ETC-DAO is separate from the Ethereum-Fork held by the "real" DAO;
3) Tie (1) and (2) together by showing that token holders in The DAO pre-fork have equal amounts of The DAO tokens for each blockchain;
4) Drag in the analogy relating the one-blockchain-into-two to a corporate spinoff, for which there are lots of precedents to show that all shareholders in Company X are entitled to their aliquot shares in both company X1 and Company X2;
5) Possibly put an insta-expert on the stand to demonstrate that a) the fork reduced the value of the "real" Ethereum and b) there's a negative correlation between the value of Ethereum-fork and Ethereum Classic, which tightens up the Ethereum-as-corporate-property analogy. [This one might well be superfluous, and it is risky because the insta-expert would be subject to cross-examination.]
6) Demonstrate that The DAO is a creature of the Ethereum blockchain, has no life or value outside of it, and demonstrate that The DAO has value with the Ethereum blockchain - and that The DAO-Classic has value in Ethereum Classic.
7) Conclude by adducing standard company-split precedents that all say that a company which splits owes its shareholders aliquot stakes in both new companies - and demonstrate that this analogy is exact with respect to forked Ethereum and Ethereum Classic.

So yeah, I'd say that a lawyer would take his money.


P.S. I'm no legal beagle myself, but I found this out when two mining-exploration companies were amalgamated into one (which became a producing gold mine, by the way) a long time ago. The two companies were called Golden Giant and Golden Sceptre, and they held deposits next to each other that were amalgamated into a new company called Hemlo Gold. As part of the re-org, which started off by merging Giant and Sceptre, each shareholder in each company got stock in three companies: Hemlo Gold, New Golden Giant and New Golden Sceptre. Never mind that the last two went nowhere; each shareholder was still entitled to a piece of all three because otherwise some corporate property from the temporarily-merged Giant-Sceptre company would have been unaccounted for.

The only risk with the above theory comes with the kernel analogizing a cryptocurrency to a corporation. But a capable lawyer could adduce the IRS ruling that cryptocurrency is property, and hope that the judge carries the ball the rest of the way by deciding that the analogy to corporate property is legally sound. It's not a sure thing, but it's a good-enough theory for a lawyer to take his money and sleep soundly at night.

But what would they charge for that??? Imagine the research involved. Better start a crowdfund/ICO for legal costs!

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

18 millions dollars isn't a joke....
IF DAO holders wanted to sue - they could put up a really good case and it would then tie alot of things into the mix about using a new chain with an old brand. . I will be surprised if a whale doesn;t sue eventually especially if ETC rises in value more.
I won't sue as i am not a whale in by any means.
However i do want whats rightfully mine and if you do to - PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

Well, then make up your mind. If you're not going to sue then your empty legal threats don't mean anything.

Have you even talked to the van-de-something white hat guy or do you just get the kick out of stirring shit on the intertubes?

What i am  going to say to Van-de Sande.

Me - Hi MR Sande - Did you notice you and your 'white hat' hacker team which you curated still owes DAO Investors over 18 million dollars.

Van de  - No it must of slipped my mind

Me - Oh really, Gee, Thats why you and your chronies havn't updated anybody as to what your doing with the stolen DAO ETC.

Van de - Yes, well alot of things slip my mind , especially when you work for Ethereum

Me -  Yes really tough remembering to update people when you work for Ethereum and the ETC & ETH case has been ongoing for the past month.          
        I mean its only a mere 7.2 million ETC-  So will you give back the ETC?

Van de  -- Well no DAO investor has asked for it back untill now

Me - Well look at the petition



PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

A lesson in how to make friends and influence people.

Your attitude will always get closed doors. Get your money ready. The only way you'll get this ETC is in court. And I'll be supporting the defense all the way.

A lesson in tying humour into a BS situation.

I won't be in the court room, i'm too small fish to take further action on this but you can have fun supporting the defence if it comes to that.

The purpose of this thread is to raise awareness as so far nobody has come forward with a statement or anything regarding the ETC ( and hopefully get some signatures)

The amount of people on this thread who don't seem to understand that the DAO holders are the victims in this case is astounding. - They rather side with supposed 'white hat' hackers' who has shown no interest so far to return DAO holders rightfully owned stolen ETC. If they have - please post a link to this thread!

[suchmoon]

A lesson in tying humour into a BS situation.

I won't be in the court room, i'm too small fish to take further action on this but you can have fun supporting the defence if it comes to that.

The purpose of this thread is to raise awareness as so far nobody has come forward with a statement or anything regarding the ETC ( and hopefully get some signatures)

The amount of people on this thread who don't seem to understand that the DAO holders are the victims in this case is astounding. - They rather side with supposed 'white hat' hackers' who has shown no interest so far to return DAO holders rightfully owned stolen ETC. If they have - please post a link to this thread!

You're still completely ignorant of the fact that safely removing funds from the white hat DAO may require a soft fork. That's why you need to talk to people who actually know this shit instead of stirring it for your imaginary intertubes cred. Is ETC going to soft fork for you? Can someone figure out another way?

You can wave your petition all day long but if you don't know the technical details, aren't willing to do the work yourself, and don't intend to go to court despite throwing legal threats around - you're just wasting everyone's time.

it's a good-enough theory for a lawyer to take his money and sleep soundly at night.

touché

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

A lesson in tying humour into a BS situation.

I won't be in the court room, i'm too small fish to take further action on this but you can have fun supporting the defence if it comes to that.

The purpose of this thread is to raise awareness as so far nobody has come forward with a statement or anything regarding the ETC ( and hopefully get some signatures)

The amount of people on this thread who don't seem to understand that the DAO holders are the victims in this case is astounding. - They rather side with supposed 'white hat' hackers' who has shown no interest so far to return DAO holders rightfully owned stolen ETC. If they have - please post a link to this thread!

You're still completely ignorant of the fact that safely removing funds from the white hat DAO may require a soft fork. That's why you need to talk to people who actually know this shit instead of stirring it for your imaginary intertubes cred. Is ETC going to soft fork for you? Can someone figure out another way?

You can wave your petition all day long but if you don't know the technical details, aren't willing to do the work yourself, and don't intend to go to court despite throwing legal threats around - you're just wasting everyone's time.

it's a good-enough theory for a lawyer to take his money and sleep soundly at night.

touché

 Its NOT my obligation to do any of that. Its the obligation of whoever has my ETC. If they want to be compensated for their time - the DAO holders can reward them with ETC from the pool of funds - as i said previously.

Analogy - So supposedly trustable & respectable white hat theives (who are associated to a 1 Billion dollar SAFE & Security Corporation) take your diamonds from a safe to prevent the black hat theives from taking it and put it in their max security safe. Now as the diamond owner - it is my obligation to find a way to remove the diamonds out of the 'white hats safe' - Despite not knowing the password, the location, the mechanisms of the safe, the thickness of the metal, the amount of security guards protecting it etc etc. The white hat theives know all of this yet its now my responsibility.LOL

[RKS]

Pretty sick of everyone crying if things don't go your way...move on and adapt. Deal with the new "new".

[Minecache]

Sorry, DAO was a disaster that spread across ETH, now they are trying to save face claiming the fork was a good idea when everyone knows they fucked up big, big time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGGW9ozE-ys

Excellent video to see both sides of the coin, and ETC objectively wins the debate.

No the fork was a gud success. It's the muppets like yourself supporting the ETC criminal coin that's at fault.

[StinkyLover]

Analogy - So supposedly trustable & respectable white hat theives (who are associated to a 1 Billion dollar SAFE & Security Corporation) take your diamonds from a safe to prevent the black hat theives from taking it and put it in their max security safe. Now as the diamond owner - it is my obligation to find a way to remove the diamonds out of the 'white hats safe' - Despite not knowing the password, the location, the mechanisms of the safe, the thickness of the metal, the amount of security guards protecting it etc etc. The white hat theives know all of this yet its now my responsibility.LOL

Unfortunately they are not your diamonds any more. You bought the diamonds previously from a diamond merchant who fulfilled their moral obligation by giving you a FULL REFUND for the money you spent purchasing the diamonds (when they found a flaw in the safe which meant a thief had locked up your diamonds within the vault itself). You have a new account which leads me to believe you agreed with the HF (you don't want to use your old account which will tell the truth about where you stand on the HF).

Now you want to be refunded again, claiming the items you received the refund for are somehow still yours.

If you want the ETC then agree (in writing in your petition) to give back the ETH you received as refund.

(but I can 100% bet that you have an excuse for wanting to keep both!)

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

If you want the ETC then agree (in writing in your petition) to give back the ETH you received as refund.

(but I can 100% bet that you have an excuse for wanting to keep both!)

You're kidding, right?    

The FACT that all these ETC opportunist hypocrites have kept & split their respective ETH is what makes the OP's claim valid.   I mean come on, folks!  

Chances are the white hats would NEVER want to put the effort if they read some of the crap the OP is posting, but such counterarguments/demands that totally ignore the reality of the situation are as idiotic.

Agreed

Stinky lover is now a self proclaimed moron

[Minecache]

If you want the ETC then agree (in writing in your petition) to give back the ETH you received as refund.

(but I can 100% bet that you have an excuse for wanting to keep both!)

You're kidding, right?    

The FACT that all these ETC opportunist hypocrites have kept & split their respective ETH is what makes the OP's claim valid.   I mean come on, folks!  

Chances are the white hats would NEVER want to put the effort if they read some of the crap the OP is posting, but such counterarguments/demands that totally ignore the reality of the situation are as idiotic.

Agreed

Stinky lover is now a self proclaimed moron

So says the but hurt goon who thinks he's entitled to the hard work and endeavours of others.

[suchmoon]

Analogy - So supposedly trustable & respectable white hat theives (who are associated to a 1 Billion dollar SAFE & Security Corporation) take your diamonds from a safe to prevent the black hat theives from taking it and put it in their max security safe. Now as the diamond owner - it is my obligation to find a way to remove the diamonds out of the 'white hats safe' - Despite not knowing the password, the location, the mechanisms of the safe, the thickness of the metal, the amount of security guards protecting it etc etc. The white hat theives know all of this yet its now my responsibility.LOL

Great analogy except it has no bearing on the actual situation. All you need to do is talk to those guys and find out if they can help you or give you the information needed to proceed on your own. Even if you get your petition done you'll have to deliver it to someone. Why not just contact them now?

When you need food do you send a petition to the grocery store or maybe first check if they would be willing to sell it to you at a mutually acceptable price?

StinkyLover - they don't need to forfeit the ETH but the thing is that the hard fork path was chosen in part because it was deemed too complicated/risky to recover the coins via the white hat path. Now the fork is done but someone still wants to do the white hat recovery anyway. I'd say more power to them except this petitioner only knows how to yell "give me my money" and doesn't want to spend even 5 minutes on research.

[StinkyLover]

Something for the OP:

https://forum.daohub.org/t/ethereum-classic-etc-and-the-dao-holders-will-the-white-hat-team-return-the-funds-on-the-etc-chain/6398

See... I'm not all that bad!

(and the OP there is honest about motivations, no BS about principle)

[bbc.reporter]

Sorry, DAO was a disaster that spread across ETH, now they are trying to save face claiming the fork was a good idea when everyone knows they fucked up big, big time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGGW9ozE-ys

Excellent video to see both sides of the coin, and ETC objectively wins the debate.

No the fork was a gud success. It's the muppets like yourself supporting the ETC criminal coin that's at fault.

Why do you keep saying criminal coin? When in fact it was Vitalik that has done the biggest crime in the cryptosphere by tinkering with the transaction history for the benefit of the few. What happened to his core values as a supporter of decentralization and anti censorship? That all is flushed down the toilet because why? MONEY.

[RastoMan]

Sorry, DAO was a disaster that spread across ETH, now they are trying to save face claiming the fork was a good idea when everyone knows they fucked up big, big time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGGW9ozE-ys

Excellent video to see both sides of the coin, and ETC objectively wins the debate.

No the fork was a gud success. It's the muppets like yourself supporting the ETC criminal coin that's at fault.

Why do you keep saying criminal coin? When in fact it was Vitalik that has done the biggest crime in the cryptosphere by tinkering with the transaction history for the benefit of the few. What happened to his core values as a supporter of decentralization and anti censorship? That all is flushed down the toilet because why? MONEY.

If you can convince the DAO hacker to return the ETC, there is no need for the hard fork to get back the coins.