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1  Economy / Reputation / Duckdice Reputation Thread on: February 03, 2022, 08:46:33 AM
Last week a mod from reached out to me to offer $100 in exchange for looking into and commenting publicly on some accusations that were made the site.  They were very explicit that they only wanted honest feedback and I'm convinced they aren't just looking for someone to shill for them.  I agreed, they paid me $100 in btc yesterday and today I received what you see below.

For the record: I know very little about .  Never played there, never made an account, and (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure I've never even posted in any thread related to them.  All I really knew about them is that they're a dice site that's been around for a while, they have (had?) a signature campaign with orange signatures, and there were a couple scam accusations against them.  Before the last couple days I didn't know any of the details surrounding any of these accusations. 

Since they already paid me, they owe me nothing, and all I owe them is my opinion on the accusations below, (which I'll get to one by one in the thread) so I hope the perception of any conflict of interest is minimal.

Without further adieu...

Quote from: Duckdice
Why this thread?
DuckDice has been around since November 2016 —- since then we have grown into what we would consider an excellent dice site with some of the most advanced features, deposit and withdrawal options and UI on the market. We have a very loyal following and a very solid regular community.

What our problem has been for some time is what we would consider a perception issue of our services on forums such as bitcointalk and other websites such as Trustpilot; whilst on the one hand, we deliver excellent customer service and attention to detail on all issues, we initially made some grave communication errors and handled situations, frankly, poorly, although where it was right to do so, have always corrected, reimbursed and resolved any issue where appropriate.

We would like to use this opportunity, with help of legendary members, to put everything on the table and discuss issues that might be of concern to the bitcoin talk community and allow this thread to be a focal point for us to learn and improve from.

We will take this opportunity, with help of our live support members bobstone, and kirito89 to comment on anything you might want answers for as well as layout some of our more notable accusations and how each situation was dealt with.

Legendary member help
To be upfront we have made the payment to two legendary members for use of self-moderated threads (of which only the legendary member posting will have influence) to ensure constructive and clear feedback.

We just want to increase awareness of the service we are very proud of in the best manner possible using the tools available to us, we will ask negative comments not to be removed unless they are intentionally false or malicious.

What we are paying for is the time and attention to posts, not to take our side but ensure that vital questions are asked of us and of any criticisms or allegations posted and ensuring a fair and neutral platform for us to engage on.

So we’ll take our very first major issue, it was early on in the site and was involving our deposit bonus at the time. We have an in-depth explanation here:

The original accusation on the forum:
The original poster of the above was credited a refund, the deposit bonus was removed and re-worked before re-release much later on with lessons we had learnt.

The basic summary of what happened is the user in question used one of our deposit bonus offers, played through and was up with some considerable profit, however, decided they did not want to continue with the bonus and cancelled it (there were warnings this would mean losing both the initial commitment and profit) that were missed by the user.

His scam accusation was that this was unfair and we should refund the balance (which we did) however our initial response was not fantastic and actually a bit standoffish. We have apologised and recognised this is not the way to handle complaints and was extremely early in the experiences of DuckDice and its team.

This was perhaps our biggest mistake and where most of our reputation damage has come from. However, we have had most negative trust ratings removed and placed as neutral from this time because we have clearly demonstrated that we have resolved it fairly.

Mishandling a multi-account situation in private messaging:
While this was poorly managed by us on a communication level — the user was linked to several other accounts that were trying to promote child pornography; which of course on so many levels we absolutely do not tolerate.

However, our approach towards the user in question was (and not on the same scale) also intolerable; because although we had evidence that they were possibly the same person, there is absolutely no way we should make such accusations without it being absolutely definitive they were the same person.

We have addressed this with training and guidance with the member involved.

Scam accusations involving pending reviews:
While this user’s withdrawal went under review, he has received his withdrawal after a few hours.   Basically, our system sometimes flags transactions and automatically sends them for review by a finance admin,  this happens very occasionally. 

There are a few reasons why a withdrawal might go under review, some for a security or compliance matter, some are to ensure there is no bonus abuses happening.

The vast majority of reviews taken are then approved and sent to the user, in rarer circumstances further information or KYC is required.

The 3.11btc rain per user bug:
Basically, we had an issue with our system which meant our rain bot rained an extraordinary 3.11 btc to 10 users. This user felt it was unfair that we blocked the attempt to withdraw it, and then subsequently returned the balance to duckdice.

Pretty much all financial institutions and companies will reserve the right to claim back money that is given due to an error and these weren’t small sums. Some users actually returned their balance realising it was a bug without question and were given bonuses for doing so.

We also had a problem that many people tried to avoid detection by further raining and tipping segments of balances in the hope they could circumvent our auto-detection systems that were triggered by such large amounts being rained.

However, we have now come to peace with this user who we will invite onto the thread for comment.

Nomercy lossback:
I will try to keep this short, but basically, before we introduced the daily, weekly, monthly Rakeback bonuses, we were offering a loss back of up to 10 % for our players, which meant anywhere from 1 % to 10 %,   the highest tier 10 % was given to our regular players, regular depositing players etc.     

This certain player, Nomercy,  a high roller, was playing for about 2-3 weeks, he won a pretty big amount then proceeded in losing it he got approximate of 6 % of his total losses back, and then, about 6 months later he came back asking for more ( prices already exploded so I’m assuming that’s the reason he did it ) ,

Regardless, this user was actually compensated at the time, he was happy with it.  But come back after a few months, demanding more, and threatening with bitcointalk accusations.

There was also some suspicion the original owner was not the one contacting, and the ask was very very large, a further few % of losses at a much much higher crypto price. It seems likely we would have obliged a smaller ask for such a player even after already crediting nearly a bitcoin in bonuses but the demand we felt was very unreasonable.

Richardo30  aka Screwing1000 aka multiple other bitcointalk accounts , aswell as duckdice accounts:
This user recently you may have noticed wrote a lot of accusations on our main thread as well as individual threads, as well as our trust pilot score being much lower than it is now. Most of this has been removed by the user.

It ultimately stemmed from him seeking loss back (a mechanism we no longer offered) and the short term disruption he was creating to our reputation was very impactful, we, unfortunately, did end up paying him a relatively small sum (7% of his losses on the site) and he has since deleted most of his posts and trust ratings (made via various accounts).

We as a team are not very happy with this decision we took, but in this one instance, bowed to pressure, which is why it's so important we write this thread and why we're being open about it now — there is a more comprehensive answer posted on our main BTT thread, here;

The good stuff!
So what does DuckDice actually offer players?

We offer near on 24/7 live support with a very quick turnaround on the completion of rectifying issues. This has improved year on year and now we offer some of the most robust support of any casino.

We’ve paid out literally hundreds of thousands in bonuses, both in opportunity and actual withdraws from our faucet program, Rakeback, rains etc. There is a lot of bang for the buck for players, especially for the average gambler.

We also offer one of the best, lively, communities for actually having discussions, chilling out with your gambling, with a solid emphasis on chat quality, sometimes it’s serious, sometimes it’s a laugh but it’s always real.

We really do respond to feedback, constantly updating and improving the game, our reward structures, our policy towards people based on community feedback, and we won't stop. It really is one of the most fully fleshed-out feature-rich dice games available with a UI that works extremely well across tablet, mobile, pc, laptop and operating systems.

And, we’ve been running for half a decade —- in this space, that’s no small feat, and we plan to go on for a decade more; we have an extremely dedicated team who really care about the site and the user’s experience of it and we are very proud; sometimes too proud, of our work, which has been shown from time to time in our responses too unfair, or even outright false allegations.

If you spent time reading all of this, I genuinely thank you; I also thank you for any questions you may give us, I really hope this community sees what we are trying to do, and give us a fair shake, we will continue to grow and offer people a great experience, but it would be even better if we could do so with the bitcointalk community and wider giving us the appropriate criticism, and actual-time too understand that past mistakes are past and people with vendettas will always poison the water. For the future, we always have been listening, and caring about our reputation but it’s often a very hard mountain to climb, especially in this business.

We thank you too, our loyal customer base who’ve been with us all this time and are very grateful for the support over the years that allow us to offer such a great game.

Local Rules:

- All responsibility for any decision to remove or not remove a post falls on me (TwitchySeal), not Duckdice.
- No signature spam.  If your post smells like sig spam I'll delete it.
- No derailing.  The topic is issues.
- If I ask you not to post in the thread anymore, then don't.
- If you have a 1xbit advertisement in your signature don't post in this thread.
2  Economy / Gambling / If your games aren't provably fair, stop claiming they are. on: November 07, 2021, 03:55:27 AM
I've been running into sites using similar methods to implement what appears to be a provably fair way to determine outcomes which could be manipulated by casino owners without detection.  What makes them different from provably fair games that are actually provably fair is the use of a 'server secret' which is a predefined state of the game (order of cards, a number to be rolled, slot reel positions, etc.) which is then manipulated according to the hashed client + server seeds.  The problem is, the 'server secret' is generated without any transparency - completely behind the scenes.  

Video Poker Example:

- The order of the cards is determined behind the scenes, this is the 'server secret'.
- The client/server seed is hashed and used to determine which card will be dealt first. (cutting the deck).

The problem is, the possibility of a high paying hand is first determined during the initial shuffle.  For example, if the A and K of each suit have more than 10 cards between them - there will be no possibility for a Royal flush to be dealt.  

An example of slots from (archive):

I think this is kind of a big deal and don't think Casinos should get away with promoting their games as provably fair when they aren't, it's bad for both players and casinos that are actually offering provably fair games.  The problem is, the average player just doesn't have a firm grasp of the provably fair concept.  They see 'seed' and 'hash' and just assume that that means it must be fair.

Anyway, I'm going to dig through my post history and make a list of all the sites I've come across that are currently doing this.  If anyone else comes across some that aren't on the list feel free to let me know and I'll update.  Maybe this belongs in scam accusations, I don't know.  I'm fine if it gets moved, but I'd prefer it stay here and the discussion revolves more around why certain methods that appear provably fair aren't.  (forum thread - they disappeared from the forum after I brought this up)
Slots: Sever Secret generates 9 outcomes, Server/Client hash determines which of the 9 outcomes is used.
Video Poker: Server Secret determines the order of the cards.  Server/Client hash determines where to cut the deck.
Source (archive) (forum thread)
Video Poker: Server Secret determines the order of the cards.  Server/Client hash determines where to cut the deck.
Dice/3D dice: Server Secret determines "initial roll", Server Client Seed hash determines a number which is added to the server secret.
Slots: Server Secret determines initial state of reels, Server/Client Seed hash adjusts initial state.
source (archive) (forum thread - owners response)
Video Poker: Server Secret determines the order of the cards.  Server/Client hash determines where to cut the deck.
Dice/3D dice: Server Secret determines "initial roll", Server Client Seed hash determines a number which is added to the server secret.
Slots: Server Secret determines initial state of reels, Server/Client Seed hash adjusts initial state.
source (archive) (forum thread)
Video Poker: Server Secret determines the order of the cards.  Server/Client hash determines where to cut the deck.
Don't see an explanation on their site, you have to verify a bet to figure out how it works.  

I haven't checked the following casinos myself, but they all have the same verbatim terms that include "When you open the game page the server generates a secret and a seed and Reveals its hash" (Identicle to 3 of the casinos already on the list) .  I believe they all use the same script, which is for sale here. (Thank you to Bitinity for posting this in another thread)

3  Economy / Gambling / ** is closing soon - withdraw your funds now** on: June 19, 2020, 03:08:43 PM
The owner got caught cheating players a while ago and was run off the forum, but it seems he has some integrity after all.

From their forum:
4  Economy / Scam Accusations / provably fair games are not provably fair. on: April 05, 2020, 05:14:39 AM
Disclaimer: I'm not accusing them of rigging games, stealing money or anything like that.  From what I can tell their reputation is pretty decent and they've been around for a very long time.  They also claim to be fixing things so that they are provably fair.  If they immediately remove their false claims (which would be an easy fix), or make their claims not false, I think it would be reasonable to remove negative feedback. claims "All games at are Provably Fair", but they're not.  When I explained why they were not provably fair, they agreed with me and said they're happy with "natural payback" of their games, they are very trusted, they would never cheat anyone, yadda yadda yadda.  It's been a week since I brought it to their attention.

Profile Link: Cryptoslots Casino
My explanation
Their response

How their provably fair system is flawed:

Video Poker

They 'shuffle' the deck behind the scenes and then use a player seed of 1-52 to 'cut' the deck.
While the player seed does affect the outcome of the game, it doesn't prove that the game is fair.  No more than 10 cards out of 52 will ever be used so, for example, if they wanted to make it impossible for a player to get a royal flush, all they have to do is check and see if T, J, Q, K, A of the same suit are all within 10 cards and if so, re shuffle or simply swap out one of them with another card before each hand.

Slot Machines

There's no RTP posted, so there really isn't much to prove.  What they do prove is that each spin the player will have at least a 1 in 9 chance of not losing their entire bet.
They randomly generate 9 different slot outcomes behind the scenes and make sure that at least one of them is a winner (they don't define 'winner'). The player chooses a number from 1-9 to determine which outcome they get.  Afterwards they can see there was at least a 1 in 9 chance of 'winning' something.

Like video poker, they could easily be manipulating the 9 possible outcomes before each spin and it would be impossible to verify.

It really won't look good if you continue to list your games as provably fair when they're not.

Why not just remove the claims from your site while you work on developing a system that's actually provably fair?

Cause why do that when you can just SAY your games are provable fair and then get users to beleive you because no one actually checks anything and they just blindly trust the fact that when they see provably fair, they assume that the company is not scum enough to lie about it.      /s if ya needed it.

This is VERY VERY scum, just implement a real system of probvavly fair or people are going to be left with a bad taste in their mouth when they find out this is a lie. Literally all you're getting out of this is short term gain for long term loss of your entire business. Be smart about this.

Hi TwichySeal and Squatz1,

First of all I would like to note that we are not trying to conduct any scam. We have been operating online casinos since 1998 which proves that we put maximum emphasis on trust and reputation. When we implemented the current Provably fair system of our games, we wanted to maintain the complexity of slot machines but also we tried to make the Provably fair system understandable to the majority of players. From my position I can confirm, that our players enjoy "playing" with the client seed settings and checking the results. Therefore we succeeded in being understandable, presenting this system to regular online casino visitors but with the trade offs you point out.

You are right, that the video poker provably fair mechanism could be exploited by an unfair operator and we are already planning on making changes that will prevent that (client seed will be used during the deck shuffling). Nevertheless I would like to assure you that we are happy with the natural payback of our video games, we would be crazy to cheat our customers.

We are also planning on creating a page that will show actual payback of our slot machines as this info will be useful to our players.

CryptoSlots Team

5  Other / Politics & Society / Podcasts on: January 06, 2020, 06:42:16 AM
Always looking for an interesting podcast to check out, figured a thread might help.

Rules: No personal attacks. No Trolling.  Respect peoples opinions. No shit posts.  

I've been a talk radio/podcast addict for years.  Started with Rush, Paul Harvey, Loveline and Art Bell on AM radio (those were the choices at night), now I usually spend 5-10 hours/week actively listening podcasts while commuting, working out, cooking or something and pop in the ear buds to fall asleep 3-4 times a week.

Here's my list:

Political (most objective to most my opinionated opinion while attempting to be objective):

Reasonable Doubt (Adam Carolla and Mark Geragos):
Weekly.  I don't miss an episode.  Pretty objective, I'd say a little leans to the right.  Both hosts are Republicans (I assume) but Adam has no problem ripping apart anyone for any reason and Geragos is a big time lawyer that more often than not sides with Trump and also defends Colin Kapernik and Juicy Sommelier.

The Daily (NY Times)
5 days a week, 20 minute episodes, each episode has a single topic.  I probably average 1.5 a week,  all depends on the subject.  Whenever they break a really big story, they'll usually have a contributor be interviewed the next day.  

Stay Tuned With Preet (Preet Bharara)
Weekly.  I don't miss an episode.  In fact, I pay $5 a month to listen to two episodes a week instead of just the one free one.  Overall I think he's very objective, but his resume will be a turn off for many.  He's the former US Attorney for the SDNY, (The guy that took down silk road and prosecuted Ross Ulbricht), that was famously reported as refusing to resign when Trump fired him (that's not what really happened).  He was also Chuck Schumers aid in the Senate for a while.  He's super qualified to discuss the technical aspects of todays politics and does a really good job of making it clear when he switches between personal opinion and lawyer mode.  First 15 minutes he answers listener questions about current events, then ~45 min interview with a guest.  The episode with George Conway (Kelly Annes Husband) was really good.

The Ben Shapiro Show (Ben Shapiro)
5 days a week.  I probably average 0.9 episodes a week.  I disagree with a lot of his opinions so listening kind of feels like taking some medicine at times, but he's  changed my mind completely on several issues and often convinces me to look at something differently.  Very smart, very articulate and rational and I appreciate his humor.

The Chuck Toddcast (Chuck Todd)
Weekly.  I probably average 2 a month.  He's a liberal MSM personality. Also a total nerd when it comes to anything election related, which is what the podcast is focused on.  You'll learn a lot about the primary process listening to this one.

Pod Save The World (Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes)
Weekly.  I listen to most of every episode, depending on topic/guest. It's focused mostly on topics that aren't only related to the US. Both hosts were in the Obama administration and they make no attempt at hiding the fact that they think Trump is a disaster.  Ben Rhodes is an expert in foreign policy and played a major roll in many of Obamas biggest deals, including Iran Nuclear.  They're both pretty funny and it's interesting to hear them fuck around a bit and tell stories about working in the White House and traveling with the president.  They get some pretty interesting guests like Tony Blair.

Stuff You Should Know

Conan Obrian Needs a Friend

Joe Rogan Experience

This American Life

Planet Money


The Catch and Kill (kinda political)

6  Other / Politics & Society / FBI Arrests Virgil Griffith, ETH Programmer, for Giving Tech Talk in DPRK🇰🇵 on: November 30, 2019, 03:53:24 PM
The office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and the FBI announced today that it has arrested and charged Virgil Griffith for violating the U.S. sanctions laws and traveling to North Korea to "deliver a presentation and technical advice on using cryptocurrency and blockchain technology to evade sanctions."

“As alleged, Virgil Griffith provided highly technical information to North Korea, knowing that this information could be used to help North Korea launder money and evade sanctions," U.S. Attorney Geoffrey S. Berman said in a statement. "In allegedly doing so, Griffith jeopardized the sanctions that both Congress and the president have enacted to place maximum pressure on North Korea’s dangerous regime."

Pretty crazy story.  I guess they warned him not to go, and he did anyway.  Definitely seems like there is more to this story than just talking at a NK Conference...

The fact that he's being charged by the Southern District of NY is very bad news for him, unless he has something that they want he could get a few years (I think it's 20 max, which seems out of the question).

Been down a bit of a rabbit hole reading about this guy, he is clearly a brilliant programmer.  Like insanely smart.  Check out his Resume.

Official Complaint:

7  Other / Politics & Society / Trump Impeachment Public Hearings [serious discussion] on: November 14, 2019, 02:04:02 AM
A thread for civil discussion on US national politics, formerly known as "Donald Trump has been Impeached [Serious Discussion]" and "Donald Trump has been Impeached, what's next? [Serious Discussion]"

Local Rules:
- No baiting, trolling or flaming.
- If you aren't interested in the opinions of those you disagree with, do not post in this thread.
- If you aren't willing to make an effort at being objective, do not post in this thread.
- No personal attacks, name calling, tantrums, circular arguments.
- Don't be an asshole.  
- No spam.

If you have a signature from a spammy signature campaign, and you make vague post about US politics, I'll probably just delete it.

If you don't like these rules, TECSHARE created a thread that isn't self moderated:

8  Other / Politics & Society / Trump Impeachment Public Hearings [serious discussion] on: November 11, 2019, 09:35:18 PM
The public impeachment hearings start this week with one hearing on Wednesday and one on Friday.  It's going to be covered in full on pretty much every network and should be pretty easy to find a live stream.  They are hoping to wrap things up and call a vote to impeach by Christmas, but many expect it to take longer.

Wednesday, November 13

William Taylor
- West Point graduate, Vietnam Vet
- First appointed as Ambassador to Ukraine by GW Bush in 2006
- Appointed Special Coordinator for Middle East Transitions by Obama in 2011
- Came out of retirement last Spring when Trump appointed him as Ambassador to Ukraine. (Currently Ambassador to Ukraine)
- Transcript from closed hearing

George Kent
- Appointed under Trump as Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs on September 4, 2018
- Has worked for the State Department since 1992
- Transcript from closed hearing

Friday, November 15

Marie Yovanovitch
- Appointed as US Ambassador to Ukraine by Obama in 2016
- Fired by Trump last Spring
- Transcript from closed hearing

(will update when more hearings are scheduled)

We don't know exactly what the Democrats plan to focus on or how the Republicans plan on defending them, but here are a few likely scenarios:

- Trump leveraged foreign aid worth ~$450m (weapons), that Congress approved to provide to Ukraine as well as a White House visit to pressure Ukraine into publicly announcing they would be opening an investigation into Hunter Biden and Joe Biden (his most likely challenger in the 2020 election) as well as the role the Democrats played in meddling in the 2016 election..  Using the power of the President (federal foreign aid) to attack your political rivals is an impeachable offense.
- Trump used his personal lawyer, Rudy Giulliani, to circumvent the Senate confirmed State Department Officials and speak on behalf of the President and Country.  
- Trump obstructed the Democrats investigation into the Ukraine/Biden/Trump investigation.

- Trump did not withhold foreign aid/White House visit in exchange for publicly announcing a Biden investigation . (There was no "quid pro quo").  The withholding of funds were not related to his request for Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.
- Trump did withhold foreign aid, but it was justified because he wanted to make sure that the US Government wasn't sending foreign aid to a corrupt country.  It had nothing to do with the fact the Biden was in position to be his most likely general election challenger in 2020.  Asking Ukraine to investigate the Democrats involvement in the 2016 election was also not politically motivated, his only motivation was to secure future elections.
- Trump did withhold foreign aid for political reasons and was wrong for doing so, but that's not an impeachable offense.

The House voted on a resolution that laid out the rules for these hearings on Oct. 31.  It passed 232 - 196, (232 democrats voted yes, 2 democrats and 194 republicans voted no).

- The hearings will be conducted by the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence led by Chairman Adam Schiff (d) and ranking member Devin Nunez.
- Schiff will be able to question each witness for 45 minutes straight, and then Nunez will do the same for another 45 minutes.
- All other members of the committee will then have 5 minutes to question the witness, alternating by Party.
- Each representative will be allowed to have a staff member question the witness instead of doing it themself.  
- The Republicans can subpoena or request witnesses only if the chairman approves.  The Republicans have had two witnesses rejected so far, Hunter Biden and the Anonymous whistle blower.

Local Rules:
- When you post, you must have a clear point. If you ramble on about nothing, then your post will be deleted.
- You must stay fairly close to the topic, the Public Impeachment Hearings.
- Don't be an asshole.  No personal attacks, name calling, tantrums, circular arguments.
9  Economy / Gambling / is closing. If you have a balance, go withdraw now. on: October 17, 2019, 08:14:05 AM
Looks like they're just going to keep whatever is left in accounts next week.

Seems like it would be easy to miss in their thread.

Hi all,

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Furthermore, no games will be available to play on Vegas Casino as of October 16. You can withdraw any outstanding real money balance in your player account until the final shut-down of the site on October 24.

We would like to thank you for playing with us. Vegas Casino could not have been as successful as it was without your loyalty.

You can e-mail us at with additional questions you might have.

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10  Other / Meta / How do you view an entire thread, text only? on: August 15, 2019, 01:11:46 AM
Someone showed me how to do it a while ago, makes it very easy to ctrl+f an entire thread, but  I can't remember who it was or how they did it.  Undecided

I know it involves appending something like this to the end of the url
11  Other / Meta / Posting Deceptive Hyperlinks to Gain Traffic on: March 12, 2018, 07:25:48 PM is an affiliate portal that also claims to protect players from being scammed.

For months the owner, game-protect, has been trying to dupe members of this forum into visiting his website by posting deceptive hyper links.  It's getting old reporting them, warning people about it and seeing him still doing it.  I originally posted this in Scam Accusations, but then thought Meta would be more appropriate...not really sure though. Am I just wasting my time, or is this something that mods think is worthy of protecting users from?  

A couple examples:

How much did you win?

You can report your case using Report Issue.

You can read in the comment section here Curacao licensing scam operators how Marg lost 250000 AUD within a few months, even though her account was already closed for excessive gambling. is the closet thing to direcbet (with regards to 24/7 action)
The publicly proven Sportsbet scam let everyone in (deposit) and then selectively demands KYC procedure when you want to withdraw! There are also several scam accusations where this happened.

The closest thing to Directbet is clearly NitrogenSports

And if you take a look at the Crypto Sports Betting sites with consumer protection service , you might will find other interesting candidates.

This really shouldn't have anything to with whether or not you think game-protect is an honest or dishonest site/service/person , so hopefully that sort of discussion doesn't derail this thread.

12  Economy / Scam Accusations / Edit: Moved to Meta on: March 12, 2018, 07:19:30 PM
Posting Deceptive Hyperlinks to Gain Traffic
13  Economy / Scam Accusations / is a ponzi scheme {update: admits they "have no btc"} on: February 16, 2017, 08:53:07 PM
I've been critical of for almost a year now.  They are a soft-swiss casino that promoted themselves for a while as fully decentralized and provably fair.  They also have been trying to get players to invest by purchasing "func tokens" and pay out dividends based on their weekly profit.  They have been sharing their gross winnings/losses but have been refusing to share basic financial data like total deposits, winnings, bonuses, withdrawals etc.  

In late October they announced someone had won 17 BTC, putting them in the red for several weeks (months?) before recovering.

A couple days ago, the player came forward and claimed that they still had not been paid, almost 4 months later.

Below are some of the relevant posts from their official thread.  (Some of them are from this week, some from last October)


I am who won 17 BTC on last October.
I'd like to report here that my cashout of 17 BTC has not been completed yet.

The reason they explained is:

>The thing is that casino wallet is almost empty for now and some time can
>be required to refill it and proceed with your cashout. So you are also
>interested to bring your friends to casino Smiley.

Be careful.
They don't have enough money to pay for your winning.

I have waited patiently and have talked with them over and over so far,
but now I am disappointed with their response.
That is why I inform you guys despite being disadvantageous to me.

I'm really worried that they don't pay to me.

I will keep reporting here until my cashout is completed.

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You can read the full article here:

Latest news and updates:


so how much of that 17 btc came out of funcasinos pocket?
If you mean who is responsible for the payment made so it's only fun-casino, we pay from our pocket!

fun-casino has posted in the thread (promotional material) since this user made their claim but chosen to ignore it.

14  Economy / Scam Accusations / [WARNING] - Don't Be Fooled on: December 02, 2016, 07:40:43 AM has scam written all over it and the shills are starting to get out of hand.

They are a dice site that launched in June and started an ICO a couple weeks ago that appears to have raised over $2million USD worth of Ethereum.  (there's actually over $2million worth of ETH sitting in their address, I' have little doubt  most of it belongs to the people who have been funding the project since they decided to go with ico)

They claim to be the worlds first decentralized gambling platform.  Problem is they aren't decentralized.   They also claim to be provably fair.  They aren't.  
(details from RHaver and others here)  <--vdice response to that post sums things up pretty well

They claim to be a clone of satoshi dice, with tons of fans and success, 18 months ahead of their competition.  They aren't,  They have had under 8,000 bets in since early June.  (Dice sites do millions of bets a day.  I think prime dice averages around 10,000 bets per minute)

Their site barely works.  They have only had 3 bet options  available due to bugs for the past month.  10% 25% and 90%.   Bets often get "stuck" or just take 20+ minutes to settle.  There is nobody working on the the actual product.  They're just working on fooling potential 'investors'

It's a fail site that has hundreds of shills and enough media hype to make it appear to be someithing  with tons of potential.  Or at least some potential.

Some Examples of their blog:
We’ll keep having the fastest, safest, onchain oracle transactions.
We’ll keep building the best technology…for everyone. Ethereum lightning betting.
Our API…no one can believe our API. Everyone was talking about Blockcypher and their API. Then we come out with our API. People can’t believe it.
The number of developers we’ve sent our API stuff to already, just in this last 48hrs…It’s incredible. It’s so great. And all free!

Already we’re recognised in Ethereum. We’re the leading Blockchain Gambling Dapp. Everybody agrees.
Our players want it much faster. Alright, so we’ve been working with our Oracle.
We’re going to make betting process even faster. It’s gonna be so fast. You won’t believe it. We’re gonna role that out this month.

Everyone wants a piece of It’s so successful. They want a piece of the action.
OK folks, we’re gonna give everyone a chance to own a piece of vDice.
It’s gonna be a new kind of token sale. It’s gonna be the most unique, most important token sale ever. Our devs. are building the code for that now.
We’re gonna really leverage the power of Smart Contracts. Everyone is gonna benefit. All our fans are gonna do so well from this token sale!

I believe the vdice team is made up of a few people with very deep pockets and a one or two guys who are putting all effort into social media.  

They started hyping the project in September, taking out forum ad space, signature campaigns, and buying tons of sponsored articles that they obviously wrote in the third person.

THey are paying all their "bounties" with 2.5% of their ico. Resullting in a lot of shills who are actually invested in the success of the project.   It's working pretty well.

15  Economy / Scam Accusations / The Glam Life Settlement, Exposing and Betsoft on: November 01, 2016, 05:30:31 PM
I won't be discussing how I got this, but I think it's important to be made public.  

Jasons personal information has been removed, nothing else has been edited.

Google Doc


July 6, 2016
Jason Statement
I hereby confirm that I have effectively cooperated and reached an agreement with and Betsoft in relation to a dispute over a jackpot payout.  I now fully accept that, as per the site’s game rules, the Jackpot cannot be won during bonus and/or free spin features and in such cases, standard pay lines apply.

The game in question, The Glam Life, had the following graphics and text on the pay table page one:

 ‘5 yacht icons on Max Bet wins Jackpot’

‘5 yacht icon on active payline wins 1000’

There was a misunderstanding on my part with how this rule applies with free spins; I understand now that free spin cannot be max bet since there is no bet placed.  The game software provider, Betsoft, has now updated the pay table to clarify as such:

“Jackpot cannot be won during any bonus feature” has acknowledged the lack of clarification from their customer support.  Betsoft has acknowledged that the game pay table may have caused misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility on free spins.  Both parties have now made necessary adjustments.

I agree to waive and release any claims I may have against both and Betsoft in regards to this matter. This includes any claims that may not be known as of the date of this agreement.

A confidential settlement has been reached to my satisfaction and I will receive this directly from I understand that if I make any future contradiction of this statement via publishing or broadcasting in any internet website, newspaper or magazine, public computer network, sound or television broadcast, cable or satellite programme, or any other medium now known or invented after this agreement, I will be in breach of this agreement and subject to legal claims for the return of the settlement given to me by

Within 24 hours of receiving this confidential settlement, I will state the following to Casino Listings in a forum posting at: and at

“, I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments. ”

I will also send the same message to Duncan Gearvie at confirming resolution of this case. I agree to send this message within 24 hours of receiving the  confidential settlement.
In addition, I agree that I may be called upon at any time in the future to make a statement provided by on any forum, as requested, in relation to this case.

I further agree to refrain from making any more negative statements about and Betsoft in regards to the matter involving this settlement, or I will be in breach of this agreement.
This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement and understanding of the Parties relating to the subject matter contained herein and it is not subject to any condition not provided for herein.  This Agreement supersedes any and all prior Agreements, arrangements or understandings between the Parties.  No oral understandings, statement, promises, or inducements contrary to the terms of this Agreement exist.  This Agreement may not be altered, amended, or modified in any respect or particular whatsoever except by writing duly executed by all the Parties hereto.
This Agreement and it’s terms shall remain confidential among all Parties.
This matter is now accordingly closed upon receipt of the mutually agreed settlement from . Adequate consideration has been agreed to.

Kind Regards,


This contradicts several statements made by shortly after the settlement was made.

Specifically this part:

I hereby confirm that I have effectively cooperated and reached an agreement with and Betsoft in relation to a dispute over a jackpot payout.

and this part:

I agree that I may be called upon at any time in the future to make a statement provided by on any forum, as requested, in relation to this case.

I further agree to refrain from making any more negative statements about and Betsoft in regards to the matter involving this settlement, or I will be in breach of this agreement.

I can't quote directly because have since locked their threads and currently post only in self-moderated threads.

July 12th Link
Quote from:
We don't want nor ever asked jasonort to keep his mouth shut.  Betcoin also didn't pay jasonort off.  This was an agreement between jasonort and the software provider

July 12th Link
Quote from:
Lutpin, the agreement is with the player and the software provider.  This was never a dispute with Betcoin and our player.  It was a dispute with our player and the software provider.    As far as we are concerned, he can share any specifics that he wants and we never even asked him to sign an agreement with us.  We never needed an agreement, a settlement or for him to shut up and encouraged him not to shut up and spoke to him nearly everyday about the matter.  This was a dispute with the software provider.  We actually want him to speak more about it and say whatever he wants.

Shortly after the settlement, Betcoins responsed to questions about whether or not Jason was treated fairly by telling players to ask Jason themself.


All things considered, it's pretty obvious that at least some of Betsofts progressive jackpots are a scam.

Casinolistings has proven that Goodgirl Badgirl progressives were being manipulated at Bodog.  Shortly after, Bovada/ dropped all Betsoft games.

Out of all Betsoft games, Glam Life offers the largest progressive jackpots and it's not even close.  Considering their size, the way they first reacted (claiming it didn't count because he didn't bet the max denomination when, in fact, every denomination has it's own independent jackpot) and that fact that there is no record of anyone hitting a Glam Life jackpot (and getting paid) since it was launched in 2009, only a fool could think there's even a possibility that Betsoft should be trusted.

(Note: Data is from Mid October)

If you are a player at any casino that continues to offer Betsoft games, ask them why.  Tell them to stop.  If they don't, stop playing there.

If they say they will look into it, ask them how long that will take and follow up.

It's up to the players to stop this kind of thing from happening.

Look at the promises Betcoin made last July.  Since then they have added a Betsoft promotion video to their landing page and added multiple Betsoft games to their casino, including one with progressive jackpots.

Last July:
Quote from:
we continue to study this in great detail and have asked for an independent auditing of the games.  We are certainly assessing the situation in full and further detail and will do what is right.  

There has been no audit.  No statement from Betsoft.  Nothing.  They think they can get away with it and the players will just forget.

They recently deleted this post from their self moderated thread:
16  Economy / Gambling / Calculating the EV of a Casino Bonus on: October 14, 2016, 11:14:26 PM
Does anyone know of an easy was to calculate the true EV of a bonus considering the house edge and playthrough requirement?

For example, lets say we receive a BTC1 bonus to play a game with a 10% HE and 10x playthrough.  

We can expect to lose BTC1 for every BTC10 wagered at this game, BTC10 is the amount we have to wager, but that doesn't make the EV of our bonus = 0

I think the calculation for the Value of the bonus looks something like this:

Starting BR = BTC1

BTC1 x .1 = .1
BTC1 - .1 =BTC0.9

Bonus Value with 1x Required = BTC.9

BTC0.9 x .1 = .09
BTC0.9 - .09 = BTC0.81

Bonus Value with 2x Required =  BTC0.81

BTC0.81 x .1 = .081
BTC0.81 - 0.81 = BTC0.729

Bonus Value with 3x Required = BTC0.729


Am I doing it wrong?
If I'm doing it right, it there an easy way to calculate Bonus Value with 100x or more?

(Variance and deposit/no deposit are not relevant.)
17  Economy / Scam Accusations / 💀⚠Warning⚠: Consider insoluble until proven otherwise.💀 on: October 06, 2016, 10:32:54 PM
They are still unable to honor a BTC102 withdraw being discussed in these threads: scammed 102btc, please help!!!
Pocket Dice – The first realistic dice game

Yesterday I posted a blog about it: Showing Signs Of Insolvency

They posted for the first time since Sept 22 today claiming that the reason for the delay is an issue with Xapos and their KYC requirements.  They are still unable to pay and gave no timeframe.  The only real update was that they unblocked the players account to let him gamble - basically a freeroll for them.

Hey everyone!

Apologies for not posting any updates, though there was no news apparently, as we have been trying to use our Xapo coldwallet to process the withdrawal of chelashin, but still no success. They have implemented a KYC procedure for all users and this has taken LOT longer than expected. Actually we still don't have access to our funds in there, the support staff is really hard to reach and overall experience is really disappointing Sad So all we had to do is just wait to be able to move some BTCs across our projects for this cashout, as we're not holding much money in the hotwallet.

Whether or not they actually have substantial funds locked up in Xapos or not does not change the fact that they don't control player funds.

If they are able to pay the BTC102 anytime soon, they should still be expected to prove that they have the funds to continue running their site.  (Some of the dice nerds can figure out how much that actually is) 

Until this happens, I urge everyone to consider them a busto casino relies on player deposits to process cash outs.  (yeah, the P word)

18  Other / Meta / Rules of Self-Moderated Threads on: September 26, 2016, 10:18:20 PM
Last week I was informed of the rules of self-moderated threads by hilariousandco.  I can't find them posted anywhere, so I'm hoping he was misinformed.  

The only official looking rule I've seen is the one you get when your post is deleted by the OP of a SM thread (which I also think needs to change):

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.
You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

I don't think it's  ok to give anyone the right to dictate who can and can't post in the main forums.  
All users who post in self-moderated threads should be expected to follow forum rules and local rules if any are posted in OP.

It get's worse....

According to hilariousandco, users who start self-moderated threads have the right to privately black list any user without saying a word about it in the thread or to the black listed user.   All they have to do is inform a mod they don't want a user to post in their thread anymore.  The mod then informs the blacklisted user that they will be banned if they post again in the thread.  Doesn't matter why or what has been posted in the past, the mod is just following the rules.

I would like to suggest that the mods/admin stop going out of their way to keep "self-moderated" thread starters happy.  Transparency is good.  Self-moderated threads are opaque. (<---does that word work like that?)

Why not just enforce the General Forum rules and leave it at that?  The fact that op has power to delete any post they want doesn't mean they should be entitled to the power of the ban hammer also.  

19  Other / Archival / ♠BETCOIN.AG♠ - Poker, Sports, Casino, Dice *UNCENSORED* THREAD on: September 15, 2016, 02:54:49 AM
Betcoin has recently closed their thread and opened a new self-moderated thread.

This thread will serve as a place to discuss without worrying about deleting anything.  This is not a scam accusation thread.  It's a replacement for the threads Betcoin has locked.

Issues that will likely be censored from the self-moderated Betcoin Thread:

  • What happened to all of the money (~12btc) that was collected as part of the 'Bad Beat Jackpot' between December 2013 and August 2015 that never got added to the BBJ? Link

  • Why did you overrake pots between October 2015 and December 2015?  Why did you not repay the overraked amounts, instead asking users to 'gamble' to see if they would have additional money stolen from them?[ Link #1 |Link #2|Link #3 ]

  • How did Betcoin player's personal data get compromised in January 2016, leading to constant phishing emails sent to all players WITH their corresponding Betcoin usernames attached?  What other personal data got compromised?  Link

  • Why did you not go to bat for Jason when he won a jackpot on one of your slots and wasn't paid?  Why did you take money from his account to fund a "thank you freeroll" that never ran?  Why have you never answered any of his many questions that stemmed from the incident regarding how you handled the situation?
  • Increasing the rake site-wide with no announcment, including uncapped rake on HU games. Link

  • Lying about their "parent company(s)" Link

  • Paying for positive reviews and fabricated claims against other users. Link

  • Intentionally posting  fraudulent skype skype logs to frame TwitchySeal as a DoS attacker.  Link
20  Economy / Reputation / Re: NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) on: September 14, 2016, 09:20:59 PM
Greetings NastyFans,

I've been putting off making this post for a couple weeks now, hoping to find a good reason to avoid making it all together.  Unfortunately that doesn't look like it's going to happen.

OgNasty has been spreading malicious lies about me and refuses to provide any evidence or explanation.

Before I get into the details of what happened from my perspective here are some facts that I know to be true:
  • I have only ever contacted OgNasty from one single account.  This one.
  • I have no personal interest in any online casino or poker room.  My goal is to make a better future for Bitcoin and Bitcoin Poker.  
  • I have no affiliation with use "Games-Protect" or his services.  I have no relationship whatsoever with him outside of being members of the same forums (this one, and
  • I have never attempted to extort OgNasty, or anyone on this forum, in any way.
  • To my knowledge, before August 1st, I have had zero communication of any kind with OgNasty.
  • I posted every pm in THIS POST, including screen shots, only after OgNasty started telling other people that I was guilty of numerous crimes, most notably that I was an extortionist.  
  • Since August 12th, I have not attempted to contact OgNasty aside from posting in related threads about this issue.
The Lies:

recently I get a PM from OgNasty telling me I should remove my feedback because TwitchySeal is an extortionist. When I asked him for some more information, he basically refused and pressed on with what is arguably thinly veiled extortion of his own:
TwitchySeal has lost all credibility with me.  I have him set to ignore.  After all the lies and harassment from him, I am more likely to believe the opposite of what he says.  If anyone trustworthy had a legitimate first hand complaint, there was a time when I would have loved to have read it.  However, the only issue remaining for me is why Lutpin is lying and paying someone to harass me as well as starting threads and leaving negative trust while pretending to be the victim while he is clearly documented to be the aggressor.
Quote from: OgNasty
game-protect is an alt of TwitchySeal who also threatens and harasses gambling houses.  If you look at the trust or public statements I've made, that is all that I've alleged.  It is a symbiotic relationship.  Since TwitchySeal is obviously a nut, I went to Lutpin to try and resolve this.  Lutpin wouldn't communicate with me about it except to say he had nothing to do with it, which I believe is a documented public lie considering he was literally paying for the harassment to continue.

Whether they're on the same team with the same agenda, or they are the same person, makes little difference from my perspective.  It was all just harassment, and it was being funded by Lutpin.  Do I think Lutpin is literally TwitchySeal, no.  Do I think they have the same agenda and TwitchySeal is just paid to do the dirty work, yes.

A few things happened leading up to the OgNasty incident that are worth noting:

  • A staff member (Lauda) joined Betcoins signature campaign briefly, then left after myself and some others informed her of the situation. Reference
  • A default trust member (Lutpin) posted in Betcoins sig campaign thread said that at the end of the month he would "strongly consider leaving negative feedback to everyone who continues to advertise"
  • Their campaign manager quit.
  • Theymos rejected Betcoins Bid to advertise on the forum (and thanked me for pming him information about it)
  • They locked their campaign thread and opened a self-moderated thread.

When I saw their final post before locking the thread, I decided to pm OgNasty immediatly, assuming he was not aware of Betcoins history.

Betcoins final post in unmoderated sig campaign thread before locking:

First communications with OgNasty.  

I did not respond again to OgNasty until I found out that he was stating lies about me publicly.
I created this thread to defend myself.  OgNasty updated the negative feedback on me to include "Posts out of context edited PMs in an attempt to discredit forum members after failed extortion attempts. Uses alternate accounts to leave negative trust for members he disagrees with."
Despite the fact that I've posted screen shots and challenged him to prove me wrong, he refuses to elaborate or post the "real" pms.

(Again, I encourage anyone interested to read this post with our complete history of communication)

I learned after the fact that I wasn't the only one OgNasty was treating like shit.

Around the same time I sent my first message Lutpin also sent one for the same reason.
Games-Protect also left him negative feedback.

GamesProtect has since posted his history of pms with OgNasty.  It's clear to me from the evidence available that there has not been any extortion attempt made against OgNasty by anyone and OgNasty is the only one guilty of making inappropriate threats.

Before hearing Games-Protects side of the story, I had assumed that Games-Protect got in contact with OgNasty with a "Remove your signature-or-else" type of message because of what he said here:

It turns out, this is not the case.  Games-Protect simply left him negative feedback - which is anyones right to do.  OgNasty was the one who reached out to Games-Protect with threats:

Screen shots of all games-protect/OgNasty pms: (he sent them to me recently after I asked.  I am not him, again, for the record):

I think the current state of Bitcoin Poker and Gambling is pathetic and over-run by sites that think an aggressive affiliate model and solid history of processing cashouts makes them exempt from all other business or human ethical standards.  They treat players like shit
For more than a year now, I've been putting a lot of effort into attempting to hold many of these sites accountable for their actions and have helped many players get paid close to BTC100 that they were entitled to but otherwise would not of received without asking for anything in return. (Example Issues From: DirectBet, FortuneJack, Betcoin)

I get attacked daily by management, affiliates and campaign members of casinos that I call out - which is to be expected.  OgNastys behavior, as one of the most respected/trusted members on this forum  should be held to a higher standard, in my opinion.  By fabricating an extortion attempt, he's giving every casino that I try and hold accountable a defense based on total lies.  For example, just recently the forum rep from left me the following feedback after I left in neg feedback for doxxing and trolling a player that complained about not being paid:

User   Date   Risked BTC amount   Reference   Comments -2: -1 / +0   2016-09-12   3.00000000      TwitchySeal supports extortion and scam does not support conclusions, as well as the reasonableness of not damage the reputation on the forum

I realize this post will probably result in being accused of even more harassment, trolling, spamming etc...but I don't see any other option other than just accepting the way I've been treated and moving on.

I'm posting this here in the Nasty Fan club because I figure most of you are reasonable people that OgN respects.  I hope you all will read this and share your opinion with him either privately or publicly. I also assume some of you have been told things about me that you believe to be true that are not.

I intend to continue bringing attention to this issue until OgNasty chooses to hold himself accountable for his unethical behavior or he is held accountable by the community.  

If anyone has any questions or doubts the validity of any of my claims, I'm perfectly willing to cooperate with any sort of investigation.   (I've offered to hand my account over to trusted member to verify the pms I've posted are genuine and complete.)


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