Duckdice.io [SCAM and SHADY behavior]

[Ozafejyw782]

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=917361

Reference Link:
Amount Scammed: 9 bitcoin

What happened::
Hello,

Nickname : Ozafejyw782

I am their biggest winner : https://duckdice.io/stats

I am a casino highroller, I like casinos, poker etc.  Today, I played for my first time on duckdice.io I saw on their bitcointalk's thread that they have a bonus 120%. Let's try it !

I deposited 2 BTC for my first deposit, claimed a bonus, set up 2FA. I was a bit surprised, I got 2 btc extra. I thought that will be like a poker bonus to clear. I can see that I have to clear it. Then I thought it will delete only the 2 BTC extra if I delete it.

Let's gamble ! I played and won from 4 bitcoin to 9.xx and 23% bonus cleared. A lot of beggars spammed me in PM. I got more than 20 private messages in 1 hour.

I had to go, I still didn't trust the website, small, young, not a good reputation(not a bad too) I decided to withdraw but I have my bonus. That's normal, I cannot withdraw.

I decided to cancel my bonus. Even if I lose my extra 2 BTC. It is safer with a young website like that. I click cancel and are you sure yes in 1 second, without reading anything ( My fault) but I never thought there was a shady feature like that.(The proof it is shady, the admin stan talked to me and told me they will change it on monday)

BOOM : 0 balance. I refresh : 0 balance.

I contacted the moderator : barcode. He was very helpful instead of the other moderators (except mharckie
 helpful as well). He told me to talk to the admin who was here : DuckHunt. He didn't answer me.

Then, I started to lose my temper and made a scandal in the chat and magic : an admin "Stan" answered me. He explained me that I decided to cancel my bonus and I had to read. The balance is cancelled. I explained him that's was a shady feature and I just want my account like before : 9.xx BTC balance and 23% bonus cleared. I will clear it and if they are lucky I will lose it.

I asked them if they had enough balance to keep a 10 btc max bet as well (at least 800 BTC) but no links, nothing.

Here their rules :

To claim bonus your balance must be greater or equal to deposit amount.
Your Balance will be locked while bonus is active. You can cancel bonus at any time.
Bonus must be wagered 55x to became a part of your balance.
Wagering contribution is 50% from bet amount.
Reload Bonus can be claimed only twice per day.

It is NOT written:  the balance will be cancelled as well but ONLY the bonus.

At the same time, the admin "stan" sent me a funky proposition : Deposit 5 bitcoin and I will see what I can do for you. IS IT A JOKE ? They stole me 7 BITCOIN and now they want 5 MORE ?

I wanted to get my money back 9 BITCOIN with the same 23% bonus cleared but now they tried to scam me against their own rules, I want the whole balance on my bitcoin address. I want them to give back the money of all the players who have been f***ed by this shady behavior.

STAY AWAY FROM duckdice.io

 

[blo8i]

As I am seeing they replied in their topic to you. Ok. Maybe they are right, you did not read well so now I am thinking at 2 shots:

1. Even if they were right...for fucks sake, i don't give a shit about your winnings there. You deposited 2 btc. They should give back to you your deposit, at least. And there is another shit ... for  example the point is that when you played, you played with their money so from this point of view they are right. Also they should have limits for such a bonuses. So here I am on your side just to get your deposit back. But as I see the way you write this post, you kind of not giving a shit about 2 btc, all you care is morality of losing some useless money.

2. I understand the casino, as I said before you plaid on their money..It is this normal? Gamblers will understand. It is a diffeerence to play with 50$ and a difference to play with 100$. Even if 50$ are bonus you have more to play. Even if maybe you were never from 4.4 to 2 btc, i mean under 2 btc. You still had the chance to lose more and increase the bet. So here I am giving the good right of the casino.

If it is not at TOS you can go to court for 4000$ or actually 7000$. By law they are forced to keep the bets and the money you had. So if they are actually ilegal you can fuck their website. Even more. Pay a lawyer with 50% of how much he can get. With a situation like this where a gambler is betting 4000$ and losing for some useless not reading the casino can lose 10x more.

Dudes. You can fuck with your clients. For real. Doesn't matter he didn't read properly, that small letters even at bank contracts may be attacked for abusing of doing it small. If you can prove legally that no one is actually reading that shit the casino and the owner may go to jail. Ok, maybe you think that I am crazy here but I met a lot of cases like this, for sure not with bitcoin but still.

[1mGotRipped]

if every site let you play with bonus with rules that you can cancel it whenever you bust your bonus without sacrificing your original deposit. all gamblers will do this all over again. The result of your actions is solely done by yourself. it is clearly stated (there's a warning before bonus cancellation) that you will have the "x amount" of deduction from your balance. how is this possible for you to blame the site?

[actmyname]

if every site let you play with bonus with rules that you can cancel it whenever you bust your bonus without sacrificing your original deposit. all gamblers will do this all over again. The result of your actions is solely done by yourself. it is clearly stated (there's a warning before bonus cancellation) that you will have the "x amount" of deduction from your balance. how is this possible for you to blame the site?

Yes, you should blame the site. Terms archived, by the way.

Here's the scenario.

You deposit a significant sum of money into the site with a bonus. The terms seem clear and they even state that you can cancel the bonus at any time. Hence you would expect it to deduct any winnings from the bonus (and for losses, it would not refund you)

You should not, under any circumstances, force the gambler to bet through the entire 55x wager requirement. For this site, you ARE forced because otherwise you will lose your balance. That is unacceptable conduct.


By not highlighting the risk of the bonus beforehand, you are essentially stealing their money: 55x is no small feat, considering you essentially need to bet your full deposit + bonus 110 times as per their rules. Even with a 98% win chance, that's a 10.83% success rate of getting through the requirement.

[khufuking]

Wait WTF they can not take your initial deposit . Here is the rules from there site .



-You should only lose the winnings you made from the bonus you should know that . you are saying you are highroller and this rule is pretty much a standard rule for all casinos .
-You can lose your deposit only if your bankroll was less than the amount you deposited . There is a rule in all casinos when you take a bonus you play with bonus money first until you bust it then you play with your money . for example

you deposited 2BTC and got extra 2BTC as bonus . You played and your bankroll took a hit and you now have 1BTC then you win big and your bankroll now is 10BTC your initial banalce here is only 1BTC not the 2BTC you deposited because you already lost 1BTC when your bankroll went under 2BTC

But still there is no way you will end up with 0 balance .

So did your bankroll at anytime became under the amount you deposited at first place ?!! If no then without any doubt  they should pay you your deposit amount .

[deepaksharma]

Better try other casino buddy

[1982dre]

if every site let you play with bonus with rules that you can cancel it whenever you bust your bonus without sacrificing your original deposit. all gamblers will do this all over again. The result of your actions is solely done by yourself. it is clearly stated (there's a warning before bonus cancellation) that you will have the "x amount" of deduction from your balance. how is this possible for you to blame the site?

This.

If you got such a profit and cancel without reading I don't see why to blame the site. With such profit, just start to make a lot of bets without increasing bet size on loss. You would just lose the house edge and will end up with still a huge profit.

If he just played on the bonus and cleared it, it would be a good site.

[DuckDice.io]

Hello,

mainly all deposit bonus has a penalty when cancelling and for sure no one will allow you to withdraw your bonus winnings without clearing a bonus first.

You've unlocked your bonus for about 23% so technically your profit was still locked, that's the whole purpose of wagering – to make winnings a part of your balance you have to meet wagering requirements.

FOR EVERYONE INFORMATION
Here is what happening when you are canceling your bonus:

First screen example:



Second confirmation screen example:



Well, excuse us if 2 times is not good enough for you, we will add captcha or password field to a confirmation screen, so no one in the future will tell that they just don't care what's happening with their 9btc and click "submit" on every screen and then spending hours on creating a scandal.

The thing you are asking us is to bend the rules only for you. And this is something we won't do for a newcomer scandalist. You never kindly asked to refund your deposit, you claimed that we have to refund your deposit and winnings and you are saying that you've lost 7 btc even though 5 btc you got only because of our bonus which was still locked. If you would've cleared your bonus we would ask no questions on withdrawal(you can check yourself, DuckDice never had any issues with payouts), so my question is where is a scam here?

As a gambling site, we give a chance to win way more with our bonuses and this is actually the first time we have such an issue (actually thank you for this, we will learn and improve from this case). And as in all gambling sites, there are certain risks, that is why we have a penalty for canceling bonus.

DuckDice have a very kind support and a great team of mods, who would've explained to you how our bonuses work before even claiming it.

BTW, you got administration wrong, they just said that they will make a custom much higher % bonus for you on a next deposit the deposit amount is up to you.
So ones again, where is the scam and where those 2 confirmation screens shady for you?

[khufuking]

Can I ask one question why the losing your initial deposit part is not on bonus rules terms ? or even on FAQ part ?  . While i agree with you that he is out of his way asking for the winnings too and yes he should have read the 2 confirmation screen .- But also the site is wrong for not including this in the rules the rules should be clear before the deposit not after it .

[Ozafejyw782]

Can I ask one question why the losing your initial deposit part is not on bonus rules terms ? or even on FAQ part ?  . While i agree with you that he is out of his way asking for the winnings too and yes he should have read the 2 confirmation screen .- But also the site is wrong for not including this in the rules the rules should be clear before the deposit not after it .

Exactly my point ! In their own website, they have 2 opposite informations : You will cancel your bonus and the other you will cancel your whole balance (a shady feature to be able to cancel your own balance)

And duckdice.io admin : you admitted that's your system is shady because you told me : I will change it on monday, I need to talk to mathematicians.

I only asked you to give me back my account with 9.xx Bitcoin and 23% bonus cleared and all the chat agreed with that. But it seems your website cannot handle it because you asked me to deposit 5 more bitcoin to be able to do something. "Hey, I already scammed you few Bitcoins but I want more".

And to the moderator from duckdice.io, it is normal to do not bite the hand who feed you but there is a limit to the illogical behavior.

[actmyname]

[Archive]
It is unethical to take away both the bonus balance and the original balance if a user has not completed it.

I do not understand why you would do such a thing. Additionally, the message you had in the bonus cancellation screen (and what you have said) was that you only cancel the profit.

so technically your profit was still locked, that's the whole purpose of wagering – to make winnings a part of your balance you have to meet wagering requirements.

Hence, if you are falsely advertising the amount that is deducted from a player's balance, then that is straight-up scamming them.


I have already talked about forcing a player to complete the bonus, so you can read my reply from above:

Terms archived, by the way.

Here's the scenario.

You deposit a significant sum of money into the site with a bonus. The terms seem clear and they even state that you can cancel the bonus at any time. Hence you would expect it to deduct any winnings from the bonus (and for losses, it would not refund you)

You should not, under any circumstances, force the gambler to bet through the entire 55x wager requirement. For this site, you ARE forced because otherwise you will lose your balance. That is unacceptable conduct.


By not highlighting the risk of the bonus beforehand, you are essentially stealing their money: 55x is no small feat, considering you essentially need to bet your full deposit + bonus 110 times as per their rules. Even with a 98% win chance, that's a 10.83% success rate of getting through the requirement.

[1982dre]

[Archive]
It is unethical to take away both the bonus balance and the original balance if a user has not completed it.

I do not understand why you would do such a thing. Additionally, the message you had in the bonus cancellation screen (and what you have said) was that you only cancel the profit.

so technically your profit was still locked, that's the whole purpose of wagering – to make winnings a part of your balance you have to meet wagering requirements.

Hence, if you are falsely advertising the amount that is deducted from a player's balance, then that is straight-up scamming them.


I have already talked about forcing a player to complete the bonus, so you can read my reply from above:

Terms archived, by the way.

Here's the scenario.

You deposit a significant sum of money into the site with a bonus. The terms seem clear and they even state that you can cancel the bonus at any time. Hence you would expect it to deduct any winnings from the bonus (and for losses, it would not refund you)

You should not, under any circumstances, force the gambler to bet through the entire 55x wager requirement. For this site, you ARE forced because otherwise you will lose your balance. That is unacceptable conduct.


By not highlighting the risk of the bonus beforehand, you are essentially stealing their money: 55x is no small feat, considering you essentially need to bet your full deposit + bonus 110 times as per their rules. Even with a 98% win chance, that's a 10.83% success rate of getting through the requirement.

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

[actmyname]

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

There should be no reason to cancel the entire balance. You're essentially - without the user's prior knowledge - forcing them to go all or nothing on the bonuses. And considering the fact that you have to have the entire bankroll bet 110x, it's a difficult feat.

If you want to punish users by losing part of the bonus balance, then do a simple split based on the bonus %.

In your scenario of 1 BTC and 0.5 BTC bonus, have every wager split 2:1 in terms of deposit and bonus, disregarding any profit upon cancellation.

Note that also, your reload bonus is claimed a maximum of twice a day.


And really, the only reason you make each bet count for 50% of the wagering requirement is to make the actual wager number (110x) look smaller: 55x.

[1982dre]

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

There should be no reason to cancel the entire balance. You're essentially - without the user's prior knowledge - forcing them to go all or nothing on the bonuses. And considering the fact that you have to have the entire bankroll bet 110x, it's a difficult feat.

If you want to punish users by losing part of the bonus balance, then do a simple split based on the bonus %.

In your scenario of 1 BTC and 0.5 BTC bonus, have every wager split 2:1 in terms of deposit and bonus, disregarding any profit upon cancellation.

Note that also, your reload bonus is claimed a maximum of twice a day.


And really, the only reason you make each bet count for 50% of the wagering requirement is to make the actual wager number (110x) look smaller: 55x.

110x isn't even that hard. It must be over 100x due the house edge. Everything below the 100x would allow users just to wager and loose the hotels edge and still end up with profit without any risk.

[mammabitcoin2u]

~snip

 And as in all gambling sites there are certain risks, that is why we have a penalty for cancelling bonus.

WOW and *edit* am I reading this right? You LOSE your balance when cancelling a bonus?  
 

[Avirunes]

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

In that case change the total implementation of this bonus system. By no way a user should lose his own balance just because he decided to cancel it.

First of all bonus should be made for a limited period of time. Secondly, many sites have implemented it like whenever bonus is allowed, user plays it with his own balance and not bonus. Like for example just like you said

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

In this case 0.5 in total should be cut from 1 BTC deposit and not the bonus . Once he wagers it unlocks and he gets the bonus.

You should have something like that rather than to completely erase off users balance just because he decided to cancel it.

It is really unethical to strike off the user's own balance just like actmyname said. I hope this will be resolved so that furthermore no more users can face this.

[actmyname]

110x isn't even that hard. It must be over 100x due the house edge. Everything below the 100x would allow users just to wager and loose the hotels edge and still end up with profit without any risk.

Made a spreadsheet showcasing the statistics behind wagering on the max % chance to win which would be the easiest for most to clear the bonus.

Being forced to take a gamble at 40% chances is not great... but this also highlights something else about your site.

You offer a 200% first deposit bonus for Dash, which is actually pretty +ev for people who approach it this way.

A 32.26% chance to win 5.24235328 BTC, risking 1 BTC (in Dash)

.3226 * 4.24235328 + .6774 * (-1) = 0.6912 BTC expected profit.


Not sure about how well you might handle multiple accounts, but that bonus seems pretty appealing.

[elraheeb]

honestly i know duck dice is good site and they are fair all the time and the admins could solve the problem and satisfy all players

i could support 2 options

1st option is to get back the 2 btc deposited and you both can talk about the rest

2nd option is to give him back the status of the account before cancellation and solve the problem and all satisfied at the end

[DuckDice.io]

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.

Bonus algorithm has not been invented by DuckDice but adopted from dice practices, our mathematician department will run simulations and based on the results we may consider new or improved algorithm.

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

As said earlier, this is a gambling, we give users a chance to win more and we NEVER ask questions on withdrawal.

[khufuking]

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.

-You are right but now the problem will be his own problem because you have the  rules backing you up  . Why you keep ignore that your site did wrong by not include the rules of bonus before claiming it !! . If this was on rules page that person would have not come post on this forums about this problem because simply there will be no problem .
- Making a 2 screens pop out or even 10 after he already claimed the bonus will not makeup for not having this mentioned on rules page . I am taking about the separated page for bonus nothing on it say that initial balance will get canceled  .

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

As said earlier, this is a gambling, we give users a chance to win more and we NEVER ask questions on withdrawal.

 
There is simple fix for this just change the rules and make the (original balance unlocked and have to be used first ) that way there will never be a loop and your site will lose nothing if someone canceled the bonus  .