I trust Will and Terra about as much as a Starving fat kid in a cake shop.
Calm down Hoofprint, Will and Terra are honest people. I know it's hard to wait but have patience. Remember how long it took to see an initial return from Terra's Gamma fund? And now (a year later) we're getting some awesome gravy on top! ... Look who returns in a furry of posting after not being heard from since Dec 25th 2013. Did you get laid off from Hashfast so you are free to post again? |
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Anyone else get a call from HF today?
No, were they trying to sell you something? Edit: For anyone that didn't notice because Hashfast buried it in a blog post that they didn't bother to publicize they listed their current inventory and prices on their website for anyone interested in buying anything. http://hashfast.com/parts/ |
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1) It is clear now that Eddie is Venezuelan or, at least, originally Venezuelan.
2) One of Eddie's buddies is named Guido Ochoa.
3) This Guido Ochoa is a Venezuelan Socialist politician with links to the military.
4) This same Guido Ochoa has recently purchased some of Hashfast's assets.
5) This Guido and Eddie have some proposal together - the details of which I'm fuzzy on - to pull HF out of bankruptcy.
6) If the answer to 5 is yes, where can I find a concise description of this proposal?
1) No, according to his testimony, he was born in Spain and has dual Spanish / American citizenship. 2) According to Eduardo's testimony he only met Mr. Ochoa after he approached Hashfast to place an order. 3) He is a politician and business person in Venezuela 4) Hashfast has sold boards to Mr. Ochoa post bankruptcy filing in line with the rules of bankruptcy as far as we know. 5) High level the proposal is to partner with mine operators giving them the chips for free and in return Hashfast would get a percentage of the mine's revenue. 6) It's in one of the exhibits filed with the court along with the opposition to the LB sale as an example of a potential alternative plan. |
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How about looking at the creditor list too, just for verification. you might be shocked...
Don't tell me that's too much work for you, lol
James, quit trolling the thread, please. it is counter productive to getting our money back and I see you are still owed $7,550. People are putting in a lot of time to try and make the best of this crappy situation so either pitch in and help out or keep quiet until you have something constructive to add. |
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"Someone" on the committee proposed a deal that has no up front cash to creditors, right? They all have to pay in more money to the company they don't trust, and from what I hear the idea was conceived by Eduardo and his Venuzealn partner so we are supposed to believe it is better than Liquid Bits putting money up front into a new company? And in the supposed non-HashFast "franchise" model, the company gives away the assets so the creditors get a return later? How does that help us? It isn't at all the same as LiquidBits since there isn't any capitalization. If there was money from all the creditors to get paid in to build out multiple mines why haven't they done so yet? How many of them have bought over the past few months since the company was forced to bankruptcy? Its not Ray Gallos clients who are going to back all these franchises is it? And not Liquid Bits? So is is another Committee collusion with the brothers, or with Simon and Eduardo and their out of country partner, trying to trick creditors again?
Just because one member of the committee may have proposed something doesn't mean a majority of the committee supports it. That document was filed with the court to show that despite Hashfast's assertion that the LB deal is the only option there are alternatives. |
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I asked LB to carve out the IP and the claims.
... The fact of the matter is that there are two components to the value of the chips, the mining difficulty, and the Bitcoin exchange rate. There is no guarantee that they will be worth less in the future than they are now and accepting a deal with dubious terms that essentially caps the chips' value at the current level while continuing to expose the creditors to 100% of the current down side exchange rate risk is plainly stupid. Are you for real ? Difficulty will continue to increase greatly I can guarantee you that. Your personal speculation on the price of bitcoin after the deal is done has no bearing on the value of the chips right now. That's the point, the price of Bitcoin has everything to do with the amount of money the creditors will receive under the terms of this deal. If Bitcoin goes to zero the 6 million in debt and equity will be worthless and if Bitcoin goes to the moon the most the creditors will get is 6 million. If you are uncomfortable speculating on the future price of Bitcoin then you should be very uncomfortable with this deal. That's why I think this deal is garbage, it is forcing the creditor body to speculate on the future price of BTC with a capped upside and unlimited downside. It's insane. |
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I asked LB to carve out the IP and the claims.
No you didn't Ray. You were ready to accept the original deal as is until the committee voiced their concerns on those deal points among others which weren't changed. All I've seen you do is harass the committee with your petty grievances and waste everyone's time. You've stated in court repeatedly that you don't know anything about Bitcoin so what basis do you continue to parrot the line that the chips are devaluing quickly? The fact of the matter is that there are two components to the value of the chips, the mining difficulty, and the Bitcoin exchange rate. There is no guarantee that they will be worth less in the future than they are now and accepting a deal with dubious terms that essentially caps the chips' value at the current level while continuing to expose the creditors to 100% of the current down side exchange rate risk is plainly stupid. |
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I would not ask you to simply trust us however. Hashfast has been making limited sales of chips to keep the lights on and pay some bankruptcy expenses. It is our understanding that they are having difficulty selling these chips at $125 each. Given that there are 27,000 chips remaining for bulk liquidation or transfer to Liquidbits, a valuation of $8 million would equate to a price of just under $300 per chip. In a bulk liquidation scenario, it is highly probable that the unit cost of the chips would be even lower than the current $125, as people/companies buy in bulk to get a lower unit cost, not a higher one. Further the price which one might realistically expect to get for these chips is bounded by the competing chips/rigs in the marketplace. Specifically the BitMain AntMiner S3 is sold in rig form for $0.75 per ghash/s and a power consumption of .77 watts at the wall. When you factor in the cost of mounting HashFast chips, installing cooling units, and in some cases cutting the wafers into chips of about $400 per unit, what you find is that Hashfast’s estate would need to be selling the chips with a final cost of $100 to achieve a cost per ghash of $0.78 in order to compete with chips already in inventory and being sold. Even at this reduced price, they would still be a difficult sell as they have worse power consumption at 1.1 watt per ghash/s
So using a realistic price of $100 per chip, this equates to approximately $2.7 million in chip inventory. The intellectual property consists of little more than plans for a 16nm chip, which would take months and millions of dollars to produce, and then would be at best equivalent to what is already coming out now, and likely much lower performance than what would be available then. Consequently, it would be highly generous to assume a value of $2 million for the intellectual property. In addition, about $1 million (beyond the debts for Hashfast) is owed on this IP, so that the net value would, using a generous value equate to about $1 million.
This results in a total liquidation value of $3.7 million. From this there would need to be deducted the $2 million in priority/secured claims, which by law get paid before general unsecured creditors. This then leaves $1.7 million to be split among $12 million in claims. This would translate to a recovery of about 14% for each general unsecured creditor. If these chips wind up selling for $80 per chip, or if the IP sells for $1.5 million instead of $2million (both entirely likely situations), then the recovery for each general unsecured creditor drops to 10%. In the unlikely event that they are able to get $150 per chip, the recovery for general unsecured creditors would be approximately 25%. This is how we arrived at the estimated recovery rates listed earlier. We stand by these numbers, and think that anyone who thoroughly investigates this matter will arrive at the same conclusion.
I'm curious how you know what Hashfast is or isn't selling at what prices? Either this information you're sharing is total BS or you are violating confidentiality agreements with Hashfast and the court under which this information would have been provided to you. |
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We are still out of stock. Our best estimate right now is 3 weeks before we get more. We were expecting a shipment of 160 boards from our manufacturing partner but it looks like UPS lost the package. If that turns up we may have more sooner than 3 weeks.
Looks like you're still out of stock. Any idea when you will have more? We had a little snafu with our original contract manufacture and had to find a backup, we've resolved that issue have all the parts on hand and more are currently being built by our manufacturing partner. My best guess is 2-3 weeks until those are ready. Will update this thread when we have a more exact timeline. |
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Liquidshits can kiss off. Is Uniquify on with holding out on this deal?
The creditor's committee is made up of 7 creditor's Uniquify is only one vote of the 7. |
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I see your point. Finding a lawyer is hard. Using the one that was supposed to represent your enemy is a no brainer. Damn phone books. Too many pages.
Do you often try to find a lawyer by starting at "AAA Lawyers, LLC" and working your way down the list? No. Do you often try to find lawyers using phone books? Anyway, just bought the latest hearing from inforupcy. Free download from there. You know if you have your attorney register you w/ your email address as an interested party in the case you will get an email with a link to download the document/audio for free every time something is filed. |
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I am at the US Trustee's office for the continued 341a hearing. Our lawyer scared Simon so much last week that he is refusing to appear. He and Eduardo are hiring personal lawyers. Interestingly, Simon has hired a lawyer Ray Gallo aggressively pushed the committee to select.
Well there are only like 4 or 5 lawyers in all of San Francisco right? So what choice did he have! Edit: My bad there are 17,000 Lawyers in SF and several thousand more in the surrounding area. |
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was this taken down? I only listened to the first 1/3. anyone still have it? It was to popular so Dropbox rate limited it. If anyone has a server they can post it on I'd be happy to get them the file but I don't have a good place to host this. |
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I've molested myself through listening to (almost) all of this. If I've understood it correctly, all really valuable intellectual property (chip design) is held by separate company, HashFast LLC, which rented it for a fee to HashFast Technologies, which collected the money and organized the production. Even if HashFast Technologies get's in the hands of the creditors, we only get the stash of already produced chips to sell them and divide the money from that sale, and Eduardo + Simon keep the control of the other company, HashFast LLC, and can do with the chip design whatever they want. Is this the correct understanding of what is happening? You understand Hashfast's opinion on the matter correctly, yes. That doesn't mean they are correct though, patience, patience. |
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So can you believe that Eduardo was bragging about buying back all of hf for a mere 5 million dollars through a Venuzuelan company/front, letting the creditors bicker and fight over it, while he got all the chips and is hashing. HA HA HA. He would have screwed his customers to the very end, raking in millions while they keep on exhausting themselves in endless legal battles... what a fucked up and sad episode for bitcoin...  The creditors aren't bickering or fighting over anything. The committee representing the creditors is very much unified in holding the people responsible for this mess accountable. Further more Eduardo might be bragging but he is just as full of shit as when he said Hashfast was going to deliver by October. That is to say; there is zero truth to your comment HashingHarry. |
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I just received in the mail a document which appears to be from the Chairman for the Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors. It proposes the hiring of a particular legal firm. I just wanted to check with you all to make sure this is legit. Also since I received this document can I assume that I am actually on the creditors list? (I will still check with PACER once my registration info arrives in the mail)
Can you post a scan of the document or PM it to me? The chairman of the committee did not mail anything suggesting any law firm and the committee voted a couple weeks ago appointing a lawyer to represent creditors so this does not make sense. You can see that a few pages ago in this thread. Perhaps you are misinterpreting it. Please post or PM me the letter and I will tell you what it means. Baker did send out the motion to hire them to all of the creditors which contained a statement to the court from the committee chair stating why the committee selected Baker. I got that a few days ago. |
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Any idea when we can actully expect something useful to get done at the company.
thanks for the latest audio... looks like the company is going to be allowed to sell a few chips by the creditors committee. Barber's salary reduced and decastro to commission only.... received a letter from the United States Bankruptcy Court about an "Order for Relief". what does it mean and what I have to do? That is just a fancy way of saying the company's request to file for Bankruptcy was approved by the court. All you really have to do at this point is register your claim with the court. You can do this yourself easily enough. It is basically a one page form where you give your name, address, say how much you are owed by Hashfast and provide supporting evidence for your claim such as a copy of the sales invoice showing what you paid. There are some links to the appropriate form back a couple pages. According to the court record, some creditors (including me) who filed claims have a remark "Informal proof of claim". What does it mean? when I filed my claim, I attached the photocopy of bank statement of wired transfer, and the printed email from Hashfast about the order completion. what have I missed? Not sure, can you PM me your real name so I can look up your claim? thank you! I have sent you a PM. Took a look at this. The reason a claim is marked as "informal" is if you submit documentation about your claim and don't use the official claim form. You can get the claim form from the US Courts website.... http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/BK_Forms_Current/B_010.pdfIf you submit information about your claim multiple times make sure you reference your original claim number and note that you are amending your original filing other wise you will end up with multiple claims which will just make a big mess. |
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Any idea when we can actully expect something useful to get done at the company.
thanks for the latest audio... looks like the company is going to be allowed to sell a few chips by the creditors committee. Barber's salary reduced and decastro to commission only.... received a letter from the United States Bankruptcy Court about an "Order for Relief". what does it mean and what I have to do? That is just a fancy way of saying the company's request to file for Bankruptcy was approved by the court. All you really have to do at this point is register your claim with the court. You can do this yourself easily enough. It is basically a one page form where you give your name, address, say how much you are owed by Hashfast and provide supporting evidence for your claim such as a copy of the sales invoice showing what you paid. There are some links to the appropriate form back a couple pages. According to the court record, some creditors (including me) who filed claims have a remark "Informal proof of claim". What does it mean? when I filed my claim, I attached the photocopy of bank statement of wired transfer, and the printed email from Hashfast about the order completion. what have I missed? Not sure, can you PM me your real name so I can look up your claim? |
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Any idea when we can actully expect something useful to get done at the company.
thanks for the latest audio... looks like the company is going to be allowed to sell a few chips by the creditors committee. Barber's salary reduced and decastro to commission only.... received a letter from the United States Bankruptcy Court about an "Order for Relief". what does it mean and what I have to do? That is just a fancy way of saying the company's request to file for Bankruptcy was approved by the court. All you really have to do at this point is register your claim with the court. You can do this yourself easily enough. It is basically a one page form where you give your name, address, say how much you are owed by Hashfast and provide supporting evidence for your claim such as a copy of the sales invoice showing what you paid. There are some links to the appropriate form back a couple pages. |
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