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81  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL is Assembling 400 (not 300) Units a Day! on: July 30, 2013, 03:33:25 AM
quote:

"At what point does one just give up? I feel like I'm so close to getting what I've waiting so long for, but I have lack any confidence that these people actually know what they are doing and will deliver. They have lied, and shut us out so many times how can anyone believe what they say. Often they can't even sync with each other to get the right story out. I can definitely understand bumps in the road, it happens, but what is being witnessed is just total lack of professionalism, and competence. Really? we are shipping units without power supplies. So the customers are being sent broken devices, that they must repair themselves, yet the price goes up on their products instead of compensation, well they offer "compensation" of sorts, to some. But even then is it really worth it? Since others are shipping functional devices in less time. those credits aren't worth much.


I guess all of the bragging about no one will be able to deliver a device more that uses less power is true. The devices they are shipping consumes exactly 0 watts, 0, volts."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/4071-what-point.html
82  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day on: July 30, 2013, 03:12:45 AM
quote:

BFL_Jody  , 07-29-2013 at 09:50 PM

Jalapenos: None shipped today

Little Singles: One shipped today (okay I gave you an actual count!)

Singles: The bulk of our orders shipped today were Singles from pay dates 6/23, 6/24 and 6/25

MiniRigs: None shipped today

I have sent all orders to production from 6/23/2012 except one who is waiting for psu's.

I only have 2 orders left from 6/24 and 4 from 6/25. So by tomorrow the orders in production should be shipped.

Tonight I am sending Little Singles to production, so a whole different group of people can cry tomorrow.

We are NOT holding up shipping because we lack PSU's for Singles. We are still shipping Singles to people who accept them without a PSU.

If you are moving, send an email to office@butterflylabs.com. Put ADDRESS CHANGE and your order number in the subject. If our address change specialists don't get to it before I send your order to production, I will see it and change it before we ship.

Our intention has always been to do our best and ship as fast as we can. It just sucks when we actually ship this slowly and though many of you don't believe it, we are more frustrated than you are.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/258-monday-july-29-2013-shipping-update.html
83  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL is Assembling 400 (not 300) Units a Day! on: July 29, 2013, 04:42:12 AM
quote:

"Yep, it's time for a refund... this delay is intentional
If there was a thread of honesty they would step up and reveal why the output is way lower than they projected (please don't insult our intelligence with you can't get PSUs)."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/256-friday-july-26-2013-shipping-update-page3.html#comments
84  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day on: July 29, 2013, 04:34:09 AM
quote BFL_Josh

"We are working to solve the customer service issue, but unfortunately it's not as easy as waving a magic wand and everything is better. There are many factors that have to be juggled and there are only so many man hours available."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3900-bfl-told-me-they-wont-honor-their-ship-pay-date-sequence-promise-3.html#post49733
85  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL is Assembling 400 (not 300) Units a Day! on: July 27, 2013, 09:42:58 PM
quote:

"“Now on to shipping. In the ~8 hours I was there I saw 2 people box up and ship out 2 large shipments with well over 100 orders… Notice orders, not Jalapenos, some of those orders had up to 4 Jally’s each in them, and one of the 2 people who were working in the shipping dept was only on her second day working with BFL. Shipping by no means will be a bottleneck, they can box up thousands of orders a day with 6-10 people working a good day I would assume. I saw how MiniRigs are going to be boxed up. They have a machine which basically makes a hard foam pillow of which 4 will be placed surrounding a MR. This foam appeared to be able to form fit once put in place and it hardens. Once everything is boxed up and they have a full rack they can have USPS come pick up a load of boxes and continue packaging more.” – “Sonny and Josh both confirmed that within ~7 days after giving the order to go full steam ahead to the assembly plant they can receive thousands of units. So it is just a matter of time before we all have nice presents on our door steps. I see no problems with their entire process.”"

http://www.coindesk.com/butterfly-labs-ship-first-bitforce-sc-60-bitcoin-miner/


quote:
"Even then, a traditional datacenter rack can only handle 20,000 watts of power at a time. According to the Butterfly Labs official FAQ, a Mini Rig consumes 2,500 to 2,700 watts of power at any given time. Right now, that datacenter rack comprising of today’s average servers would only be able to handle about six Mini Rigs."

http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-asic-bitcoin-mining-arms-race/
86  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL is Assembling 400 (not 300) Units a Day! on: July 26, 2013, 05:55:30 AM
quote:

"Jody, would it be possible to give the overall percentage of preorders shipped thus far, broken down by category? Giving us the same pay date shipping for 30 days in a row is very discouraging. Even if that answer is 1% I would be happier to hear that then the same pay date information that we are getting now which is June 23rd every day for a month. It makes me want to punch a baby every time I see that same date over and over.

I spent over 30k which is the price of a new truck and cant even figure out any time frame of when I can reasonable expect delivery. I'm not going to cry if that date is 2 years in the future, but right now, I have nothing. That isn't really fair to your customers who loyally support you day in and day out. Please, can we get some overall percentages? For the love of god and everything that is holy I implore you."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/255-thursday-july-25-2013-shipping-update-page2.html#comment5812

64 Days on June 23rd orders.
87  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day on: July 26, 2013, 01:29:00 AM
quote BFL_Jody:

"I did not hire Josh and I do not work for Josh. We are equals in he company even though he is way smarter than I am (in some things). Did you know he can speak Korean and can make BTC Miners light up like toys?"

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/255-thursday-july-25-2013-shipping-update.html
88  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: July 21, 2013, 05:36:20 AM
Haha why make claims you ask?  That's what Phinnaeus does.  He's the most irresponsible user on this forum and is responsible for the harassement and misidentification of a number of users in his crusades.  Bruno is an example of all that is wrong with bitcoin and the internet in general.  Anonymous whiny man-children that hide behind their computer without fear of repercussion for their actions.

Did you know he's also an embezzler and thief?  Phinnaeus Gage used to run Bitcoin100 and stole thousands of dollars from a charity.  He's a real stand up individual.

While you help steal away millions beyond.  Even if your claims are true, the diversion tactic you made with steering people away from Avalon to your shady company cost many tens of thousands a month.  This was a real shit move on my part, to not see the false name you wear and assume that because an internet based company says its going to do something, it will.  I just want to let you know about the financial implications your company faces.  I worked with a company Quixtar/Amway, knew what I was getting into and was okay with it, and still had a class action lawsuit delivered to my doorstep.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/89809366/quixtar-pokorny-settlement-agreement

With you, however...  I have been intentionally deceived and diverted from a real blooming industry that I wanted to support.  Your transparent actions don't even compare to the cultic mentality of Quixtar/Amway.  Even beyond that, you have done an undetermined amount of damage by taking spotlight for BTC.  Even if BTC can someday be taken seriously, it will not be without justice brought upon you!  I'm not an internet lawyer.  I'm a trend spotter and a train catcher.  In this situation, I'd gladly drive a train.  You are sick and disgusting.  You have become such a whore for whatever $$ you could be envisioning right now, that it is unfathomable.  

A blight is not difficult to be seen.
89  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day on: July 20, 2013, 10:01:00 PM
ONE man real work VS BFL

http://imgur.com/a/lxMWi#Gbonqie
90  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: July 20, 2013, 09:35:34 PM
quote:

" Why is BFL Not Flush with Components to Build S/MR Consistently?
So, what is going on? Is it too much to ask for more transparency?

I don't understand why nothing shipped today? Was this also the case on Monday? Tuesday?
Why does there only seem to be enough components for the Jally all the time?
Is BFL running out of money?
Can components for old orders only be stocked with money from new orders? Why aren't you ordering the components you need for S/MR? Why are there such dead gaps?
How can BFL possibly get through the backlog before the end of September at this rate?
How many more zero shipping days will there be to look forward to?
How many orders are left for June 23rd?
How many are there for June 24th?
25th? etc?


------------------------------------

Somebody said we've been stuck on June 23rd for a month. I've lost track. Obviously I wish we could get more transparency. I've never understood why BFL has kept the hashrate they've sold a secret? Why can't we know the amount of orders for each product?

Just so many questions."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3890-why-bfl-not-flush-components-build-s-mr-consistently.html#post48102
91  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day on: July 20, 2013, 03:06:57 AM
quote:

Mine was in "production" status for more than 2 weeks. So according to this, it was on the assembly floor for over 2 weeks, then it went into a sort of unspoken limbo for 3 weeks while it disappeared, and now it's been "fulfilled" but isn't ready to pick up.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3907-anyone-get-email-bfl-tonight-info-letter-reprint-below-3.html#post48350

"I suspect the email was to comply with FTC (?) rules which have been quoted a gazillion times on bitcoin talk about communication at least every 30 days if delayed or something.

The reason jally line is so far ahead, they likely have a shit ton of stock that works for jally... probably the boards and cases originally for jally went to scrap and the boards and cases originally for LS and S are being used for jally while the larger products needed to be redesigned."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3907-anyone-get-email-bfl-tonight-info-letter-reprint-below-3.html#post48356
92  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Butterfly Labs shipping 300 units a day on: July 19, 2013, 05:07:55 AM
Avalon PCB已于6月17日量产,高清图片请查看一下进度连接!
老规矩,我们依然选用了ngzhang原版的4层蓝色PCB两倍铜沉金!成本高昂不少的说哦,当然稳定性和散热更强了!


订单负责人:黄雄奇
电话:+86-13760303313
订单QQ:79673544
矿机代工群:76121477



6、1模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥4388.00
即加¥1278可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*1+1278=¥4388.00
7、2模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥6588.00
即加¥1256可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*2+1256=¥6588.00
8、3模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥8688.00
即加¥1134可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*3+1134=¥8688.00
9、4模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥9999.00
即加¥223可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*4+223=¥9999.00

全铝3MM原版机箱为可选配件,价格¥1288元,7月预备产能500台,目前意向订单7个(217台),有需求代工的,请电话联系!

avalon芯片已经到货,直接午夜直奔工厂,停下2条生产线,立马量产第一批avalon!【7月18日现场直播】
22:35,芯片全貌


23:24,芯片全貌2


23:24,等待芯片已经量产的500PCS控制板


样机测试进度:
【重大更新】[avalon深圳工厂]整机测试稳定!订购芯片的注意!1模组有重大bug!【6月27日更新】
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235965.0

    首先,来talk是个偶遇的机会!
之前一直忙于产品的生产,由于早期就开始接触BTC,所以后来不断的接触到各种BTC矿机的代工,当然,早期我们出货大量的显卡手机解码机,相信圈内的人都明白,很多大鳄,一开始是数百上千台的5970之类的解码机,在BTC爆发之后,大量的转入的挖矿的行业!

    对于我们,既然来到talk比较晚,那么先让我们来介绍一下自己吧!
首先是本人,然后还有我们的团队,我们的工厂!

    本人,黄雄奇,长于广东深圳,一直在圈内玩各种高端DIY装机,曾任太平洋电脑网深圳主编!后自行创业,论坛方面,太平洋电脑网的雨版!
网名ID:ccbmc 不管是搜索网名,还是真名,百度google上面都有大量的资料!
本人实名微博:http://weibo.com/ccbmc
身份证也来一张

    俗话说得好,要想让人信服你,就是让人了解你!既然时间短,只能自爆了 Undecided

工厂介绍及avalon代工报价细则:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=229795.0
负责人:黄雄奇
电话:+86-13760303313
代工群:76121477


非常抱歉,事隔一周才更新,这是为啥呢?
说说原因吧,上周这个时候更新,大家也看到我们已经完成了对样机的测试!
可是,一直测试的当中,我们就发现了一个小模块下,跑久了之后,300M的速度,实际打了7-8折!
一直困扰于这个问题,也重制了许多控制器,问题表现一样!
所以,我们大胆的怀疑,南瓜的算法设计,就是不支持1模组,或者说,本身就没为一模组做优化!
所以,出于妥当考虑,我们并未直接更新,告诉所有的人我们已经稳定了!
我们向国内最早拿到avalon的比较出名的人士,寄去了我们的控制器样板,得到的结论,是控制器是正常稳定的!
那么问题,就出在了一个模组上面,在此,非常感谢国内第一个收到avalon整机的芥末童鞋,在深圳为我们准备了一台2批avalon整机供我们测试使用!
测试结果,和预料的一样,一模组,运力只有8折,2模组和3模组测试一切正常!
至此,我们才正式宣布,我们的样机已经能够稳定正常运行,所以,就连一开始,我们已经准备好的量产控制器,也一并于现在更新了!

我想说的一句,为什么前面4团公布分配代工方案这么久,我们一直没有去登记,就是因为,这是个问题,一个很严重的问题,我们如果不能解释清楚,我们不轻易承诺!至少,我们作为一个负责的团队,或者一个负责的工厂,我们坚持这样的原则!
更新后,我们将向jimmy登记我们的详细资料,加入竞争代工的行列!
在此,非常感谢一直信任和支持我们的网友,很多人虽然和我们已经签订了代工合同,但是jimmy处一直还没去登记的原因,我们必须把avalon现在运行的状态告诉大家,让已经团购了只有80片的网友们及早部署,不过,貌似也慢了一步,昨天准备下单2团的时候,发现avalon官网已经暂时停止了芯片的销售!再等几天,avalon系统更新完成之后,是否能够下单了!

好了,上测试结果吧

首先,再度感谢糕富帅的拥有无数avalon整机的芥末童鞋,为我们提供的整机做测试,当然了,鉴于时间就是金钱,我们只是借用几个小时验证我们的推断!


一到手,3下5除二,下一个模组测试!


南瓜的原机做工,欣赏一下吧,到时候还对比我们的做工


这是一种非常高效的散热金属贴,我们已经在采购,不得不佩服一下,南瓜团队里面,设计这个机箱和散热的,就是个天才!


首先上的是原机控制器,没错300下的速度本应该是2.4G,实测只有1.88G


然后,换上我们的控制,测试效果一样,1.8G,因为每个测试都是跑10分钟左右,小小误差,正常!由此得到的结论,一模组,在南瓜的算法设计里面,是被抛弃的!所以4批的机器,也为什么会准备出44G的2模组,并没有22G的1模组!


话不多说,装回去,上3模组测试我们的控制器表现如何!为什么要回机箱里面?裸身在外,散热不够,机箱的风道设计是接近完美的,不过没加上盖,散热效能起码打了7折,作为测试使用,已经足够


上面是我们的控制器,下面的浅蓝色的,是原版avalon的控制器


机箱前置指示灯,正常!


原版控制器,因为是原版,没啥好测了,300M跑到71G,标准性能


更换上我们的控制,跑10分钟,速度依然稳定71G,正常!团队连续通宵10几个晚上制作+测试,在此刻,我们才真正松一口气,至少,我们的一切,都是完全成功的了!


接着,我们再测试了2模组,仔细看图,ccbmc logo下的电源供电已经拔除!


简单跑一跑,46.6G的速度,标准速度,验证通过!
至此,我们4个小时的测试下来,验证了我们前期的推断,1个模组下,算法有瑕疵,果然在测试原版机器之后,得到了验证!


在此,郑重的,感谢fcicq,在我们团队研究avalon之初,就给了我们非常多的提示,以至于让我们少走了非常多的弯路,包括提示我们F1问题,703路由供电硬改问题,固件、超频等等;在此,我代表我们团队致以最高的谢意!


fcicq大神的微博截图,观念就是这样,得到业内精英的肯定,我们引以为荣!


量产控制器


量产控制器


每天加班,我们严肃对待,每一个客户的合同,我们的都是顺丰包邮寄出,单这笔费用,就是一笔不小的开支,但是,我们重视每一个客户!【6月27日更新】

先介绍一下工厂吧,由于想着发帖倡促,就没用相机拍,用了部分之前手机拍的量产Lancelot的部分图片,迟些日子,休完端午小长假,再回工厂拍一些高清的!将就将就!
工厂也在代工其他矿机产品,鉴于保密,能公开的就南瓜的开源lancelot!


之前我们工厂代工量产的Lancelot,6层PCB蓝色沉金两倍铜,1片成本顶2片!


PCB量产激光测试仪,确认PCB出厂100%良品!


工厂贴片流程生产线


10温区回流焊,确保每个零件的焊接精准!绝无虚焊


到了工厂第一件事,当然是做钢网(往PCB刷锡膏,过回流焊),锡膏,行内人才懂的,我们采用日本原装进口阿尔法锡膏,供应商大清早7:30送来,8:00开工,效果最好,顶级的锡膏会随着时间变长而降低效能,像阿尔法这种顶级锡膏,实际效能即使冷藏也只有一周时间,而且一天比一天的效能下降,上图为Lancelot背面钢网!


上贴片机了哦,日本三洋的老机器,因为量产数量比较少(只有2K,所以采用了比较慢的机器,几个小时就搞掂),只停了两条生产线来做Lancelot的正面和背面!


另一台速度比较快的三洋,负责贴背面!


回流焊过后,基本成型,开关、接口、固态电容等后续后焊插件,后续将进入QC检测环节


用料方面,就不一一举例了,我们全线采用顶级的固态电容,钽电容,全封闭陶瓷亚铁素电感!

芯片代工方案参考
Avalon: https://github.com/BitSyncom/avalon-ref
泰国16芯片方案: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.0
                      https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike
美国TerraHash: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198489.0

关于芯片组装代工的文章:
Avalon芯片矿机组装实践与服务:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220468.0
莱特币组装专题:http://www.laitebi.com/?cat=23

由于目前完整的方案,只有ngzhang本人的公布的avalon原机制造资料,所以我们首批代工的产品
当然,目前泰国16芯方案已经开源,致命的问题,是作者本人尚未完成最后调试工作,测试BIOS固件也没有放出,所以我们等待作者完成设计工作,然后才加入代工序列

团购批次:
团购 第一批详情见: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216755
团购 第二批详情见: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220259
团购 第三批详情见: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223159
团购 第四批详情见: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=225787



avalon成品,机箱我们也已经在定制

[img=800,531]https://i.imgur.com/bqxzS1S.jpg[/img]
对于品质,我们依然遵循原版再升级,原版蓝色4层PCB两倍铜沉金,能换钽电容的,我们进而升级钽电容!

代工报价:
订单负责人:黄雄奇
电话:+86-13760303313
订单QQ:79673544
矿机代工群:76121477

ngzhang Avalon开源方案
1、路由、控制器、汇聚板  ¥888.00
2、单1模块含铝散热片(8PCB,10 Avalon chips/PCS,共需提供80片Avalon chips)  ¥2222.00
3、电源:海韵金牌模组X850 850W额定 ¥1299,原配大量模组线,不喜欢原配的,可以选购以下定制线材
ngzhang原厂用的海盗船AX850即为海韵代工,同一生产线出来贴海盗就是AX850,贴海韵就是X850,不懂者可百度、google查询!
机箱
4、机箱已经在CNC厂加工打样,全铝3mm厚,暂定报价¥1288!量少,首批量产30个!
定制线材
5、为纠结玩家特意准备,X850专业定制线材:¥488.00/套
优惠政策:
6、1模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥4388.00
即加¥1278可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*1+1278=¥4388.00
7、2模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥6588.00
即加¥1256可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*2+1256=¥6588.00
8、3模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥8688.00
即加¥1134可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*3+1134=¥8688.00
9、4模块整机用户(整机除机箱,到手插电就能挖),¥9999.00
即加¥223可加购一台海韵X850金牌模组电源 总价:888+2222*4+223=¥9999.00


销售条例:
1、以上配件均可单买,也就是一模块用户可以随时提供芯片(80PCS)购买一组模块,自行插上Avalon主机增加运力!
2、以上代工产品,免费售后保修1年,以厂家日期贴标为准,1个月内,我们包来回运费,1-12个月,客户自行负责来回运费!
3、所有产品,保修不含芯片,芯片质量如何,这个只有ngzhang本人才知道,节操掉一地的南瓜博士童鞋!
4、所有代工均需签正式合同,以收到芯片时间为准,第一批1-2周内出货,后续排期,合同时间不超过3周,逾期一天交货,按合同价格5%赔付!


部分定制线材,线材颜色客户可咨询!


合同样本:

Avalon芯片代生产整机合同
生产方:      (以下简称甲方)
供料方:          (以下简称乙方)
根据《中华人民共和国合同法》的规定,甲乙双方在平等互利的基础上,经友好协商达成本合同条款,共同遵照执行。具体协议如下:
第一条   乙方向甲方提供QFN48封装的avalon芯片,甲方为乙方生产成可稳定运行的整机、总价等见以下各表(以下报价为未税价格):

序号   项目明细   数量   单价   费用(单位:元)
1、   控制器、路由、连接板      ¥888   ¥
2、   模块(单模块80芯片)      ¥2222   ¥
3、   电源(海韵X850)      ¥1299   ¥
4、   机箱         ¥
   费用合计         ¥
   优惠合计         ¥

第二条   生产及出货日期
1、   定货日期为本合同签订之日,签订合同时得到一个排序编号,工厂生产排期以此编码前后排期;
2、   乙方必须提供正规渠道向ngzhang采购的avalon产品,甲方在验货之初只验产品是否短路(坏片),并不验是否正品avalon,淘宝购买者,请自行辨别真伪;期初坏片,将通知乙方退回坏片,生产过程出现坏片,将有甲方负责并予以替换!
3、   成品交货日期:按排序编码排期,收到芯片之日起(以快递物流投递时间为准)14天左右出货(以快递物流收货时间为准),约定时间最长不超过21天;
4、   自提地点:深圳市福田区华强北赛格广场13楼1310B;
5、   包装方式:成品独立装箱;
6、   付款方式:
(1)、签订合同之后,甲方向乙方收取合同总价30%作为订金,即:元;
(2)、乙方收到成品整机时,付清余款70%,即:元
(3)、乙方付款方式可为现金、支票、对公转账等;
7、   验收方式:甲方向乙方说明整机速度、产品包装、外观、PCBA板、等具体参数,货物到达后,由乙方完成对货物安装调试,由乙方对货物的品种、质量、品种进行检验,如发现货物的品种、质量、型号、数量与合同规定不符,乙方有权拒绝接受。甲方应对该部分产品立即进行更换,直至该部分产品符合合同规定为止。
8、   本合同签署后,乙方如要求变更约定的发货日期,收货地址或收货人,应在约定的发货日期前3个工作日内书面通知甲方。本条所述的变更次不可超过1次!
第三条   质保规定
1、   本合同所指的货物,至交货日期起,甲方提供一年免费保修服务;
2、   对于以下所列原因导致的产品损毁,甲方不负责保修:
(1)乙方或最终用户工作人员疏忽大意、保管不善、不当操作或意外事故导致的产品损毁;
(2)由除甲方技术人员或其认可的技术人员之外的任何第三方对于产品进行的修理或配件替换,导致的产品任何损毁;
(3)甲方或最终用户自行修改本合同项下产品;
(4)序列号标签及保修标签损坏的,不予保修;
第四条   质保期外,甲方提供有偿跟踪保修服务,服务费按实收取。
第五条   违约责任
1、除不可抗力外,甲方未按时交货,则每日按合同总价款的5%向乙方支付违约金。
2、除不可抗力外,乙方付款逾期,则每日按合同总价款的5%向甲方支付违约金。
3、甲方未在约定时间内修理、更换或退货,应付主要违约责任
第六条   甲、乙双方因不可抗力的原因,不能履行本合同时,应及时通知对方并说明相关理由
第七条   本合同所订一切条款,甲、乙任何一方不得擅自变更、修改或解除,如一方单独变更、修改或解除,对方有权拒绝,并可要求变更、修改或解除合同的一方承担由此造成的一切损失
第八条   本合同在执行中如发生争议,甲、乙双方应协商解决,协商不成时,按下列第1种方式解决,第1种方式无法解决,将采用第二种方式:
1、   提交深圳仲裁委员会仲裁;
2、   依法向人民法院起诉;
第九条   本合同自双方签字之日起生效,本合同在执行期间如有未尽事宜,由甲、乙双方协商,另订附则附于本合同之内,其在法律上与本合同享有同等效力。
第十条   本合同一式两份份,甲、乙双方各执正本一份。
                                                                  
甲    方:深圳市福田区赛格           乙    方:
电子市场奇创天下经营部                          
甲方代表(签字)                     乙方代表(签字)

日    期:                          日    期:
93  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers. on: July 16, 2013, 01:20:57 AM
quote:

Criminal Lawsuit against BFL in Germany [in progress]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=256944.msg2737302#msg2737302

"Official documents of the german prosecutor will be released here soon.

Be patient."

"34 german customers gave me their identity and order IDs so far. None of them did receive any unit from BFL."

"I cant release all details yet. BFL got a german version of their website and through  that their german sales apply to german laws. They get busted in germany if they have the ass to fly over to the court."
94  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: July 13, 2013, 07:26:22 PM
Made a couple of phone calls this morning.  I was informed about this website and told that they would likely be very interested in hearing about BF Labs story.

Don't be shy fellows, they accept third party submissions.  Let the IC3 determine if no refunds is legal or not...


http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

95  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: July 13, 2013, 07:38:05 AM
A Special Thanks To Ryan Downs For The Following Upper Management
Phone Numbers.
1-408-967-5033 (TOLL NUMBER) Michael Oldenburg, HE WANTS TO HEAR YOURCOMPLAINTS!
1-408-376-7514 (TOLL FAX Number) Ryan Downs, Senior Vice PresidentOperations, PayPal, Inc. and eBay Inc.
1-402-935-2050 (Toll Number)
1-888-215-5506 (Toll Free Number)
1-888-221-1161 (Toll Free Number)
1-408-376-7400 (Toll Number)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll Fax Number) PayPal, San Jose, General Fax #1-650-864-8000 (Toll Number)
1-402-935-2284 (Toll Number -- Banking and Check Issues)
1-402-935-2212 (Toll Number -- ACH Processing & Check Services)
1-402-935-2255 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2257 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2223 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2250 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2000 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-2007 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-5181 (Toll Number -- Debit Card Services)
1-402-935-2116 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2129 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2238 (Toll Number -- Management, Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2239 (Toll Number -- Fraud Prevention Department)
1-402-935-2251 (Toll Number -- Manager, Resolutions Department)
1-650-251-1101 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-967-1005 (Toll Number -- Amanda Pires, PayPal Media Relations)
1-402-537-5755 (Toll FAX Number -- PayPal Chargeback Department)
1-402-938-2337 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-303-395-2802 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, PayPal Executive Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2238 (Tiffany Zaporowski, Strategic Risk Operations)
1-402-935-2116 (Elizabeth Morey, Supervisor, Executive Escalations)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, Senior Agent, Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2172 (Adam Braasch, Senior Agent)
1-402-952-8902 (Gabriel, Agent, Executive Escalations)
1-402-935-2268 (Beth Beutler, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5146 (Leslie Byrne, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2399 (Janyce Erikson, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5145 (Melody Fry, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2174 (Jackie Hart, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2229 (Michael Lazure, Senior Agent) *ACH/Wire Expert*
1-402-935-5163 (Rick Martin, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5073 (Stephanie Mikovec, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2157 (Megan Moore, Senior Agent) *WORKS WEEKENDS*
1-402-935-3533 (Peggy Pattavina, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2331 (Tara Stevens, Senior Agent)
1-402-938-3532 (Megan Wetzel, Senior Agent)   
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2255   Jasmine Account Review       
(402)935-2256   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2257   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2328   Chris Account Review       
(402)935-2333   Luke Account Review       
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2223   Sheryl AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2250   Katrina AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2275   Lisa AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2332   Julie Gonzales AUP Compliance       
(402)935-5140   Alahandre Elise(?) AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2029   Todd Business Development       
(402)935-5126   Shane Business Development     Schedule: 8:30~5PM M-F    
(402)935-5197   Ken Holston Business Development     Business Management & Account Management    
(402)935-2000   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2007   Call Center Inbound Line Call Center       
(402)935-2012   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2011   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2014   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2017   Call Center Inbound: Debit Cards Call Center       
(402)935-2019   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2021   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2022   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2023   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2024   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2025   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2030   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2050   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2053   Call Center Inbound: Premier Services Call Center       
(402)935-2057   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2065   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2079   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2080   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2081   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2082   Premier Service Line Call Center       
(402)935-2084   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2085   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2092   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2100   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2106   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2107   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2124   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2148   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2166   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2194   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2233   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2300   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2323   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-5119   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2165   Jessica Card Services       
(402)935-2396   Tamara Spurlock Card Services       
(402)935-5181   Lisa Weaver Card Services     Debit Card Team    
(402)935-2015   Teresa Rains Charge Backs       
(402)935-2141   Mikalea Charge Backs       
(402)935-2152   Anna Charge Backs       
(402)935-2189   Margaret Charge Backs       
(402)935-2340   Debbie Charge Backs       
(402)935-2063   Taj Education Team     Product Education    
(402)935-2064   Dona Education Team       
(402)935-2116   Elizabeth Executive Escalations     Works closely w/Tiffany(detp.mgr). Very Responsive.    
(402)935-2129   Joe Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2156   Brian Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2157   Megan Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2172   Adam Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2173   John Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2174   Jackie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2192   Eric Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2128   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2228   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2238   Tiffany Executive Escalations     Manager of Executive Escalations.    
(402)935-2268   Beth Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2269   Michelle Executive Escalations     Schedule: Tues~Thur 9:30AM~8PM    
(402)935-2334   Luke Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5145   Melanie Executive Escalations     Schedule: M-F 4PM~Mid. CST    
(402)935-5146   Leslie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5163   Rick Martin Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2112   Gloria Finance       
(402)935-2207   Jeremy Finance       
(402)935-2371   Julie Finance       
(402)935-2239   Collin Fraud & Security     Fraud Prevention    
(402)935-2267   Mark Fraud & Security     Trust & Safety    
(402)935-2272   Michael Fraud & Security     Protection Services    
(402)935-2366   Suzanne Combes Brown Fraud & Security     Risk Management Manager    
(402)935-2368   Sheryl London Fraud & Security     Protection Services: Senior Agent    
(402)935-5134   Bill Gray Fraud & Security     Internal Audit. Mountain View Office: 650-864-8046    
(402)935-2044   Paula Adams Global Services     Global Help Desk    
(402)935-2127   Amy Bush Global Services       
(402)935-2048   Joyce Brown Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2051   Melanie Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2128   Michelle Human Resources     HR/Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2169   Sterling Blackwell Human Resources     Employee Development    
(402)935-2283   Amy Human Resources     Staffing    
(402)935-2318   John Latke Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2339   Michelle Mullis Human Resources       
(402)935-5128   Michelle Human Resources     Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2001   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, play around.    
(402)935-2004   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, etc.. play around    
(402)935-2026   Password Prompt (?) Internal / IT     Line immediately prompts for password. Unsure of it's use.    
(402)935-2032   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (try user: 1234 pass:1234, works to play around with)    
(402)935-2069   ECS System Testing Internal / IT     Play around, not sure of purpose.    
(402)935-2299   Internal Software Helpdesk Internal / IT       
(402)935-5100   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (user: 1234 / pass: 1234 to play around)    
(402)935-5151   Hold Music / Advertisement Internal / IT     Test Line for Hold Music ?    
(402)935-5149   Monitoring Line? Internal / IT       
(402)935-5168   Monitoring Line Internal / IT       
(402)935-5184   Gene (or Steve) Internal / IT     Technical Support Manager    
(402)935-5199   Call Center Status Line Internal / IT     This ext. will place the call center in Emergency or Normal state.   
(402)935-2274   Matthew Member Services     Member Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2321   Michelle Member Services     Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11A~Mid)    
(402)935-2357   Terry Dale Member Services       
(402)935-5161   Tim Loban Merchant Fraud & Risk     Weekend Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11AM~Mid)    
(402)935-5169   Alicia Merchant Fraud & Risk       
(402)935-2074   Tammy Galvin Quality Development       
(402)935-2226   Jenny Quality Development       
(402)935-2034   Janie Bartlett Resolution Services       
(402)935-2132   Bryant Resolution Services     Team Leader    
(402)935-2241   Lynn Vogue Resolution Services       
(402)935-2251   Mike McCormick Resolution Services     Resolution Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2266   Rich H. Resolution Services       
(402)935-2353   Lorie Kilstrom Resolution Services       
(402)935-5120   Tim Underlow Resolution Services     Product Education Trainer for Resolution Services    
(402)935-5141   Resolutions Department Line Resolution Services       
(402)935-2218   Douglas H. Security       
(402)935-5172   Michell Security       
(402)935-2002   April Garner Unknown       
(402)935-2005   Adonocca Banks Unknown       
(402)935-2010   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2013   Pat Unknown       
(402)935-2018   Vicki Hernandez Unknown       
(402)935-2020   Mary Jo Unknown       
(402)935-2028   Megan Unknown       
(402)935-2039   Jeff Hagan Unknown       
(402)935-2040   Mary Steeley Unknown       
(402)935-2041   Michelle Parkins Unknown       
(402)935-2049   Jason Finer Unknown       
(402)935-2052   Eduardo(?) Unknown       
(402)935-2054   Tonya Unknown       
(402)935-2055   John Freeze Unknown       
(402)935-2061   Rick Unknown       
(402)935-2062   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2066   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2073   Kelly Shipley Unknown       
(402)935-2086   Jeff Allen Unknown       
(402)935-2087   Patience Unknown       
(402)935-2091   Dawn Mouski Unknown       
(402)935-2095   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2098   Dona Shong Unknown       
(402)935-2099   Shelly Unknown       
(402)935-2101   John Unknown       
(402)935-2103   Latrisha Harris Unknown       
(402)935-2104   Lisa Hughes Unknown       
(402)935-2110   Amy Lescott Unknown       
(402)935-2113   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2115   Maggie Mentato Unknown       
(402)935-2118   Paul Ingles Unknown       
(402)935-2119   Stacy Price Unknown       
(402)935-2123   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2125   Koreen Unknown       
(402)935-2126   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2134   Cindy Langstrom Unknown       
(402)935-2136   Lynette Lane Unknown       
(402)935-2138   Kim Unknown       
(402)935-2142   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2149   Mark Rosenthal Unknown       
(402)935-2150   Eddie Unknown       
(402)935-2154   Charles Unknown       
(402)935-2158   Bill Unknown       
(402)935-2168   Peggy Unknown       
(402)935-2170   Deb Myer Unknown     Schedule: M-F 8AM~4:30PM    
(402)935-2171   Trish Unknown       
(402)935-2175   Zack Unknown       
(402)935-2178   Lashaun Unknown       
(402)935-2179   Beth Unknown       
(402)935-2181   Valerie Dasante Unknown       
(402)935-2182   Erin Crain Unknown       
(402)935-2183   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2184   Kevin Armstrong Unknown       
(402)935-2186   Emily Heldridge Unknown       
(402)935-2187   Erin Unknown       
(402)935-2188   Lamay Unknown       
(402)935-2201   Ray Unknown       
(402)935-2203   Sherry Unknown       
(402)935-2204   Lisa Thompson Unknown       
(402)935-2205   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2206   Osma Unknown       
(402)935-2216   Tracy Unknown       
(402)935-2217   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2224   Meliss Unknown       
(402)935-2225   Jim Unknown       
(402)935-2227   Eric Harrison Unknown       
(402)935-2129   Name not known Unknown       
(402)935-2229   unknown Unknown       
(402)935-2230   Mark Peterson Unknown       
(402)935-2234   Dave Unknown       
(402)935-2236   Brock Unknown       
(402)935-2237   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2240   Angie Anderson Unknown       
(402)935-2244   Julie Gonzales Unknown       
(402)935-2246   Sally Unknown       
(402)935-2253   Deb Unknown       
(402)935-2254   Ellie Unknown     Number changed to 935-1835, per voicemail.    
(402)935-2259   Tereasa Unknown       
(402)935-2264   Eric Unknown       
(402)935-2265   Doug H. Unknown       
(402)935-2271   Cynthia Unknown       
(402)935-2273   Leslie Walker Unknown       
(402)935-2276   Heather Johnson Unknown       
(402)935-2281   Jason Alexander Unknown       
(402)935-2288   David Unknown       
(402)935-2291   John Unknown       
(402)935-2298   Chris Unknown       
(402)935-2302   Jim Norway Unknown     Call was forwarded to a Nextel Phone Afterhours (management?)    
(402)935-2305   Amanda Unknown       
(402)935-2308   Cathy Unknown       
(402)935-2316   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2317   Jason Unknown       
(402)935-2322   Jamie Swanson Unknown       
(402)935-2324   Jessica Carasoul Unknown       
(402)935-2335   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2336   Marissa Unknown       
(402)935-2341   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2342   Torrence Unknown       
(402)935-2349   Karen Unknown       
(402)935-2350   Beverly Unknown       
(402)935-2351   Karen Lovette Unknown       
(402)935-2358   John Kimmee Unknown       
(402)935-2363   Claire Shumiker Unknown       
(402)935-2364   Mary Viella Unknown       
(402)935-2365   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2367   Mary OBrien Unknown       
(402)935-2369   Kelly Carson Unknown       
(402)935-2370   unknown Unknown     person answered, unsure, will recheck later.    
(402)935-2372   Bob Miles Unknown       
(402)935-2375   Renee Unknown     Schedule: Tues~Fri 1:30PM~Mid.    
(402)935-2376   Foreign Speaking Employee Unknown     Foreign Employee.. anyone identify language ?    
(402)935-2377   David B. Unknown       
(402)935-2381   Tina Unknown       
(402)935-2386   Cameron Unknown       
(402)935-2387   Cindy Unknown       
(402)935-2391   Alisha Rhea Unknown       
(402)935-2392   Cindy Kathork Unknown       
(402)935-2393   Andres Unknown       
(402)935-2394   Robin Unknown       
(402)935-2395   Jim Unknown       
(402)935-2397   Mark Davis Unknown       
(402)935-2399   Janice Erickson Unknown     Schedule: M-F 6AM~2:30PM    
(402)935-5103   Nicole Unknown       
(402)935-5105   Natalie Unknown       
(402)935-5106   Angie Unknown       
(402)935-5108   Gene Unknown       
(402)935-5111   Doug Maxum Unknown       
(402)935-5113   Becky Unknown       
(402)935-5115   Carrie Unknown       
(402)935-5116   Paula Baldwin Unknown       
(402)935-5117   Dave Burchill Unknown       
(402)935-5121   Andy J. Unknown       
(402)935-5123   Micheal Jones Unknown       
(402)935-5129   Marlow Rumington Unknown       
(402)935-5133   Jeanette Unknown       
(402)935-5136   Quincy Unknown       
(402)935-5138   Terrell Anderson Unknown       
(402)935-5144   Lisa L. Unknown       
(402)935-5147   Evan McCaul Unknown       
(402)935-5152   Jessica Palamino Unknown       
(402)935-5156   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-5164   Tonya Lynn Unknown       
(402)935-5165   Devon Unknown       
(402)935-5171   Carrol Unknown       
(402)935-5175   Cindy Unknown       
(402)935-5148   Jeff Lonka Unknown     Admin maybe (msg says if urgent, call: 402-490-9749)    
(402)935-5176   Sheila Unknown       
(402)935-5178   Unknown Employee Unknown       
(402)935-5179   Tim Maxwell Unknown       
(402)935-5185   Rich Unknown       
(402)935-5186   Jerry Lowe (female) Unknown       
(402)935-5187   Brian G. Unknown     Voicemail says w/Ebay    
(402)935-5189   Brian Unknown       
(402)935-5192   Christian Reese Unknown       
(402)935-5194   Reese Unknown       
(402)935-5195   Angie Unknown       
(402)935-5196   Scott Unknown

Source Link: http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalPhoneNumbers.shtml
96  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: July 13, 2013, 07:16:41 AM
PayPal isn't ignorant about BFL non-compliance with ToS.  They've been aware of the issue for months.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/137-first-most-boring-update.html#comment1600

Unclear if this was a one-time verification they requested, or if this is something they continue to "manage".

It looks like we need to keep the pressure on PayPal, as that seems to be the only thing getting BFL to actually ship units.

FYI: fraud@paypal.com


97  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: July 13, 2013, 03:54:25 AM
My next step has been to contact PayPal's fraud department to point out the blatant and ongoing violation of their terms of service for pre-order sales.

Of course, my complaints would certainly carry more weight if other BFL victims would follow suit.
Would you (or anyone else who knows of this) please elaborate on the highlighted statement?  

Quote
From PayPal's FAQ:

Does PayPal permit transactions for pre-sale items?

A pre-sale item is advertised for sale before the seller actually has the item. Often, these items are sold before they are available to the general public.

A seller might use the money from the pre-sale of an item to purchase the item.

PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis as long as the seller:

    Guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase.
    Clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale.
    Provides proof, if needed, that they can successfully deliver the product (supplier information, purchase invoices, shipping information, or delivery confirmation).

The PayPal rep I spoke with agreed with my assessment that BFL is violating the TOS.


98  Other / Off-topic / Re: Sonny Vleisides' finally sticking it up his investors' asses! on: July 12, 2013, 07:24:01 AM
"Bitcoin to Precious Metals direct"

quote BFL_Josh 07-11-2013, 09:05 PM :

"I placed a couple small orders with both Amagi and Coinabul on the same day, several weeks ago. Amagi's stuff arrived today... Coinabul is nowhere to be seen."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3807-bitcoin-precious-metals-direct.html#post47009
99  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: July 12, 2013, 06:49:56 AM
But that's the definition of a scam.  It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all."  

Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return.  That's how they stay in business.  

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling.  If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

What you are describing is a Ponzi.
A scam is, most often, where everyone gets fucked.

BFL is certainly a Ponzi, and i suspect before too long they will pack up shop and move to Costa Rica, or the FTC will kick down the door and seize everything.

Either way, i feel like i got bent over the table.

If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund.

More people need to read this!

Quote
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).

First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.

If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund.
100  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers. on: July 11, 2013, 02:28:33 AM
For those thinking they can't receive a refund, you may want to call Paypal (assuming that's how you paid).

The surprisingly nice Paypal rep said that normally they don't offer buyers protection after 45 days but because the account was a long standing account they would do it (opened in 2005).  About an hour later, the status on my BFL order was changed to 'Refunded'.

For those of you who have ordered less than 45 days ago and would like to keep the Paypal refund option available to you after 45 days, you need to contact Paypal before the 45th day window is up and let them know you haven't yet received your order.  That way they will track the status and your refund will be eligible after the 45 days are up.
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